WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

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WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Fernando on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:35 am

Tonight's WWE RAW opens up with the roster on the stage. The French flag is on the big screen with the Eiffel Tower inspired peace sign that has gone viral this weekend. Lilian Garcia asks everyone to stand as we get a moment of silence for the victims of the terror attacks in Paris, France this past Friday night. We go to the RAW opening video.

- We come back to Michael Cole, JBL and Byron Saxton at ringside. They hype the WWE World Heavyweight Title tournament and go over tonight's matches.

- The druids start chanting as the lights go out and they line up on each side of the entrance. The Undertaker's entrance starts up next to a big pop. Out comes The Deadman with Kane. We get a look back at the Brothers of Destruction going at it with The Wyatt Family on RAW from England last week.

The druids surround the ring now and the lights are kept low as fans chant for Taker. Taker says the true army of darkness stands before us. He says vengeance awaits The Wyatt Family, who tried to claim their souls. Taker says there is no man, living or dead, that can tame the power of the Dark Side. Kane says when you try to steal the flames of hell, you will get burned. Kane says they have reserved a special place for The Wyatts at Survivor Series, the deepest pits of hell, a place where they will suffer in the fires of eternal damnation. Taker says Wyatt's kind of evil is no match for theirs. Taker says their evil has been time Tested over and over again. Taker says Wyatt can pick the two that he wishes to sacrifice because the Brothers of Destruction have already decided their destiny and they will never rest... in... peace. The Wyatts graphic flashes and Bray Wyatt makes his way out with Luke Harper, Erick Rowan and Braun Strowman.

Wyatt takes a seat in his rocking chair on the ramp. He talks about how Taker has dominated and instilled fear for 25 years. Wyatt says 25 years is long enough and it's time for a new army of darkness to emerge - his army. He says the Brothers of Destruction no longer control fate, that privilege is reserved for Wyatt. He says he's the face of fear and after Survivor Series, they will just be remembered as the brothers that Wyatt destroyed. Wyatt makes the thunder come and says Taker's creatures of the night are his. The graphic flashes again and now the lights are on. All of the druids at ringside are wearing sheep masks. Wyatt laughs and tells them to "run!" and they hit the ring. Taker and Kane fight them off. Taker and Kane grab two remaining druids and chokeslam them while looking at The Wyatts. Wyatt sends Rowan, Harper and Strowman down the ramp but stops them. Wyatt says their date with destiny is on Sunday but until them, Taker and Kane can follow the buzzards.

- We get a graphic for Owens vs. Neville before going to commercial.

WWE World Heavyweight Title Tournament Match: Neville vs. Kevin Owens

Back from the break and out comes Neville to a pop. WWE Intercontinental Champion Kevin Owens is out next.

Back and forth to start. Owens comes out of the corner with a headlock. Neville makes a quick comeback and goes up for an early Red Arrow. Owens goes to the floor and Neville nails a moonsault outside instead. Neville brings it back in for a 2 count as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and Owens nails a big clothesline for a 2 count. During the break, Owens destroyed Neville on the floor. They come back in the ring and Neville fights back. Neville blocks a suplex with a knee to the head. Neville unloads on Owens. Owens backdrops Neville to the apron and superkicks him to the floor. Owens yells at the referee to start counting.

Neville barely makes it in at 9 and Owens is upset. Owens drops Neville over his knee and hits the running senton for a 2 count. Owens yells at the referee. Owens charges in the corner but Neville side steps and hits a snap German suplex. Neville comes off the second rope for a close 2 count. Neville goes to the top for Red Arrow but lands on his feet as Owens charges. Neville nails a superkick and goes back to the top for Red Arrow. Owens knocks him off the top. Neville blocks a pop-up powerbomb and hits Owens before dropping him on his neck with a backwards hurricanrana for a close 2 count. Neville goes back to the top but lands on his feet again. Owens catches him in a big pop-up powerbomb for the win. Owens advances.

Winner: Kevin Owens

- After the match, Owens grabs his belt as we go to replays. Owens stops and looks at the WWE World Title as we get a look at the brackets. Owens will face the winner of Ziggler vs. Ambrose.

- Also still to come, Kalisto vs. Del Rio and Reigns vs. Cesaro.

- Back from a break and we see Kevin Owens talking to Triple H backstage. We can't hear them but they shake hands.

- The announcers talk about the Seth Rollins injury and surgery, noting he will be out 6-9 months.

Tyler Breeze vs. R-Truth

We go to the ring and out comes Tyler Breeze with Summer Rae. Back to commercial.

Back from the break and our comes R-Truth. They lock up and go to the corner. Breeze turns Truth around and misses a cheap shot. Truth backs off and gets a big "what's up!" from the crowd. Truth with a takedown, a slam and some dancing before he hits a leg drop for a 2 count. Breeze looks ready to make a comeback but Truth isn't having it. Summer applies some lip balm to Breeze as fans boo. Truth comes back over but Breeze turns it around in the corner and unloads.

Breeze with a single leg crab now. Truth gets the bottom rope but Breeze keeps it locked for the 5 count. Truth makes a comeback and unloads on Breeze now. Truth hits the scissors kick for a close 2 count. Breeze ends up hitting the Beauty Shot for the win.

Winner: Tyler Breeze

- After the match, Summer comes in to celebrate with Breeze as we go to replays.

- Still to come, Ziggler vs. Ambrose. Back to commercial.

WWE World Heavyweight Title Tournament Match: Dolph Ziggler vs. Dean Ambrose

Back from the break and out comes Dolph Ziggler first. Dean Ambrose is out next to a big pop.

Lots of back and forth to start. We see Kevin Owens watching backstage. Ziggler with another roll up for 2. Ambrose with a headlock now. Ambrose avoids a big superkick and Ziggler gives him props. They lock up again and Ambrose takes Ziggler down with a headlock. Ambrose ends up clotheslining Ziggler to the floor to a pop. Ambrose goes to dive out but Ziggler moves and Ambrose catches himself. They come back in and Ziggler takes Ambrose down and tries to make him tap. Ziggler ends up hitting a big dropkick for a 2 count. Ambrose catches Ziggler in a backbreaker for a 2 count.

Ambrose with a single leg crab now. Ambrose keeps control and goes to the top for the Big Elbow drop. Ziggler rolls through for a 2 count. Ziggler gets the sleeper applied but Ambrose forces the break. More back and forth with pin attempts. They collide in mid-air and both go down. They fight it out on the top and both fall out to the floor with Ziggler hitting the steps. We go to commercial.

Back from the break and Ambrose nails a big dive out onto Ziggler. Ambrose rolls him back in and charges with a forearm in the corner. Ziggler blocks the bulldog and hits a dropkick. Ziggler blocks the big bounce back clothesline and hits the Fame-asser for a close 2 count. We see Owens backstage watching again. Ambrose blocks a neckbreaker with a backslide for 2. Ziggler with a big DDT for 2. Ambrose catches Sweet Chin Music and sends Ziggler into the corner for a 2 count. More back and forth. Ambrose applies a sleeper hold but Ziggler breaks it. Ambrose with a huge clothesline for a 2 count.

They end up on the top and Ziggler brings Ambrose face first to the mat. Ambrose rolls to the floor as Ziggler sells a knee injury. Ziggler brings it back in the ring and Ambrose suckers him in for a 2 count. Ziggler with a superkick for a close 2 count. They get up and trade shots in the middle of the ring. Ambrose unloads but Ziggler headbutts him. More back and forth until Ambrose nails Dirty Deeds for the win. Ambrose advances.

Winner: Dean Ambrose

- It will now be Owens vs. Ambrose at Survivor Series in the semi-finals on Sunday. Ambrose takes the mic and says he's going to turn the place upside down and throw all the rules out the window when he wins at Survivor Series. More action, less talking, more pyro and other crazy stuff. Ambrose says he's turning WWE into the Ambrose Asylum.

- We get a look at the Divas Revolution storyline kicking off several months ago. Still to come tonight, Paige and Charlotte will have a contract signing. Back to commercial.

The New Day vs. The Usos and Ryback

Back from the break and out come WWE Tag Team Champions Kofi Kingston, Big E and Xavier Woods. Woods is tired of hearing about 25 years of The Undertaker. More important is the 1 year anniversary of the debut of WWE's most entertaining group ever, The New Day. They start knocking The Usos. They chant "New Day rocks" until The Usos interrupt with their entrance. Ryback is out next as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and Woods starts things off with Jey Uso. The Usos come in and Jey ends up hitting a big dive out onto Big E and Woods. Jey comes back in as Woods takes control. They keep Jey in their corner and stomp away while making quick tags. Woods with some trombone action in Jey's face, while Big E dances on the apron. Jey looks to make a tag but Kofi dropkicks him and talks trash.

Big E comes back in and hits the running splash for a 2 count. Big E with an abdominal stretch now. New Day keeps control as Ryback waits for a tag. Ryback gets frustrated and comes in anyway, getting disqualified after pushing the referee. Ryback and The Usos unload on The New Day and celebrate after taking them out.

- We get more hype for tonight's Divas contract signing.

- Back from the break and Triple H walks in on Cesaro to hype him up for tonight's tournament match. Triple H says Cesaro has what it takes but he needs a little something. Triple H believes this may be Cesaro's time to grab the brass ring and prove he's the man. Triple H says he will be watching tonight, from his own personal "Cesaro Section." Triple H tells Cesaro to take the extra step and be willing to do whatever it takes. Triple H goes on and wishes Cesaro good luck before walking off.

WWE World Heavyweight Title Tournament Match: Cesaro vs. Roman Reigns

We go to the ring and out comes Roman Reigns through the crowd. Reigns asks if the Roman Empire is in the house tonight. He talks about the long road here and says he hit a big detour due to the Seth Rollins injury. He talks about turning down Triple H's offer last week and says he will never sell out. Reigns goes on and says this ride ends with him being WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Back to commercial.

Back from the break and out comes Cesaro. They lock up to start the match. Back and forth. Cesaro with a head scissors but Reigns powers out. They lock up again and Cesaro applies a headlock. More back and forth. Cesaro with pin attempts after a counter out of the corner with a cartwheel. Cesaro takes Reigns down with a headlock. Reigns eventually catches Cesaro in a tilt-a-whirl slam for a 2 count. Cesaro ducks a clothesline and hits a big flying uppercut. Cesaro goes for the Swing but Reigns blocks it. Reigns charges but hits the ring post shoulder first. Cesaro drives Reigns into the post and he falls out to the floor.

Cesaro comes to the floor and hits a big uppercut for a 2 count as we go back to commercial.

Back from the break and Reigns drops Cesaro with a big boot on the floor. Reigns brings it back in the ring and kicks Cesaro a few times. Reigns with a big clothesline. Reigns runs into an uppercut. Cesaro with another uppercut and one in the corner. Cesaro goes for another but runs into a right hand. He comes back and takes another punch. Reigns with clotheslines in the corner now. Cesaro with more uppercuts. Reigns with a big clothesline and a slam. Cesaro avoids the Drive By and pulls Reigns in for a Cesaro Swing. Cesaro goes for the Sharpshooter and locks it in.

Reigns crawls but Cesaro turns it into a Crossface and pulls Reigns to the middle of the ring. Reigns powers this into a Samoan Drop for a 2 count. Cesaro gets dumped to the floor and his elbow hits the apron hard. Reigns runs around with a Drive By as fans boo. Reigns brings it back in the ring and hits a big clothesline. Reigns with more big blows in the corner. More back and forth. Reigns with a powerbomb for a 2 count. Cesaro goes on and hits an uppercut for a close 2 count after countering a Superman punch. Fans chant "this is awesome" now. Reigns finally connects with a Superman punch as fans boo, knocking Cesaro off the top. Reigns calls for a spear to bigger boos. Reigns runs into an uppercut. Reigns blocks the Neutralizer. Cesaro with a close 2 count off a backslide. Reigns with a Superman punch and a spear for the win. Reigns advances.

Winner: Roman Reigns

- After the match, we go to replays as Reigns celebrates. We see Reigns looking at the WWE World Heavyweight Title as his music plays.

- Still to come, the Divas contract signing. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and the announcers remember WWE Hall of Famer Nick Bockwinkel, who passed away at the age of 80 on Saturday.

The Ascension vs. The Dudley Boyz

We go to the ring and The Ascension waits as The Dudley Boyz come out next. Bubba Ray Dudley starts off with Viktor as fans chant for tables already. Bubba with a nice throw and a clothesline. Bubba keeps control and sends Viktor to the floor. Konnor tags in and drops Bubba with a big boot to the face.

Viktor and Konnor keep Bubba down with tags. Konnor talks trash to Devon and Bubba slams him. Devon finally gets the tag and unloads. Devon with a 2 count on Viktor as Konnor breaks it up. Devon sends Konnor to the floor and they hit 3D on Viktor for the win.

Winner: The Dudley Boyz

- Renee Young is backstage with Zeb Colter and WWE United States Champion Alberto Del Rio. Zeb talks about Del Rio winning tonight and going on to win at Survivor Series. Triple H walks up and shakes Del Rio's hand and talks about how Del Rio can go from being a man of the people to just the man. We go to commercial.

WWE World Heavyweight Title Tournament Match: Kalisto vs. Alberto Del Rio

Back from the break and out comes Kalisto. We see video from earlier today where Kalisto talks about how his win over Ryback wasn't a fluke and how he's fighting even harder to live his dream as WWE World Heavyweight Champion. The music hits and out next comes Zeb Colter with WWE United States Champion Alberto Del Rio.

Del Rio takes control early on for a quick pin attempt. Kalisto fights back but Del Rio cuts him off. Kalisto counters a backbreaker and Del Rio gets sent to the floor. Kalisto with a hurricanrana from the apron. Kalisto gets a "lucha" chant going as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and Del Rio is still in control. Del Rio with a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker and a 2 count. Del Rio with more offense as fans boo. Del Rio keeps Kalisto grounded and wears him down. Kalisto gets up and fights back with kicks. Del Rio cuts him off and applies the Backstabber. Del Rio with stomps and kicks while Kalisto is turned upside down in the corner. Del Rio charges and hits the ring post when Kalisto moves. Kalisto goes to the top for a plancha. Kalisto with a corkscrew off the ropes. Kalisto with kicks. Del Rio drops him with a big right hand.

More back and forth. Kalisto slams Del Rio's face into the mat with a scissors. 2 count for Kalisto. Del Rio counters Salida del Sol and turns Kalisto upside down in the corner again. Del Rio with kicks. He goes to the top for the big stomp but Kalisto kicks him and fights out. Kalisto goes to the top with Del Rio for a huricanrana but Del Rio counters it. Kalisto ends up upside down in the corner again as Del Rio hits the stomp for the win. Del Rio advances.

Winner: Alberto Del Rio

- After the match, Del Rio looks out at the WWE World Title as we go to replays and the announcers hype WWE Network.

- Still to come, the Divas contract signing. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and Michael Cole is in the ring for our main event segment, a contract signing for Survivor Series. Cole introduces Paige and out she comes.

WWE Divas Champion Charlotte is out net. They both have words and Charlotte gets a pop for calling herself a Carolina girl. Charlotte gets emotional when talking about their families putting wrestling first as kids. She brings up her late brother Reid and how Paige was there for her when he passed. Charlotte has a tough time for a second before getting fired back up. Paige talks about how this isn't high school and asks if Charlotte is going to cry some more. Charlotte says Team PCB was going to change the Divas division until Paige's selfishness got in the way. Charlotte yells about how Paige isn't a champion, she's not a role model, not someone little girls want to be like. Charlotte says she won't be champion forever but she won't lose the title this Sunday and she won't lose it to someone like Paige. Paige mocks her speech and calls her naive and embarrassing. Paige goes to leave and Cole reminds them of the contract. Paige says no one will have Charlotte's back on Sunday, not even daddy Ric Flair. Paige rips into Flair and calls him an old fart. Charlotte threatens her.

Charlotte talks about how she will keep fighting like her family does, like her dad did and like her brother did. Paige says she's wrong because her little brother didn't have much fight in him. Bad move there, they didn't have to say that to make the segment. Charlotte leaps over the table and attacks her. They brawl around ringside. Officials are trying to separate them but Charlotte is going crazy. They go back in the ring and Paige finally is able to retreat up the ramp. Referees have to hold Charlotte back. Paige yells for Charlotte to come on as Charlotte's music plays and she stares back at Paige. RAW goes off the air.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:14 am

Wow. There are ways to generate heat and then there are things that are just uncalled for especially given the tone of the show when it started.

Sounds a good show though, and maybe in context that Paige promo comes over differently, but on this page (see what I did there) it just sounds so unnecessary.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Samo on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:47 am

Im torn on it. One one hand, its an excellent bit to provide a huge spark and make this ultra personal. On the other hand, jeez its close to the bone. I can only assume it was all scripted to drop that line and that the Flairs gave their blessing, I would hope so anyway.

It was an excellent contract signing before that. THIS is what the - eugh - diva's revolution is about. Two women who want to prove they are the best and being given the same respect a male counterpart would get. Good promos, good brawl, main event slot. Good move.

On the whole RAW had its ups and downs like most weeks, but its ups were pretty high and the lows might only seem lows in comparison.

Already at this point the tournament feels like a success. Both mid card champions being in the semi's elevates them and the titles by proxy, even more so if one of them makes it to the final (which is where the mid card titles should be, knocking at the door of the top title). Reigns had one of his best matches with Cesaro, Neville vs Owens was a solid opener and Kalisto looked the part, he reminded me of a young Mysterio, they've a gem on their hands if they work it right. Ambrose vs Ziggler was decent enough but my least favourite of the 4 Quarters.

The other matches were just simple enforcement matches. Have they given up on Ziggler vs Breeze already? They seem to have forgotten about it while the tournaments been on.

I liked Wyatt turning the druids against the BoD, although I'm cooling on this feud already.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Marky on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:48 am

I think they're trying to get Paige from the cool heel to the hated heel as quickly as possible, while also getting Charlotte sympathy which is needed to get the fans on her side. There are better ways but for all we know Ric and Charlotte came up with the idea.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by liverbnz on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:55 am

It was Charlotte that brought the brother thing up before Paige had even mentioned it. It was a poorly booked segment made worse by Charlotte's poor talking skills.

But it any regard, it should not be needed to gain heat. If it is, you are not doing your job properly.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:58 am

Marky wrote:I think they're trying to get Paige from the cool heel to the hated heel as quickly as possible, while also getting Charlotte sympathy which is needed to get the fans on her side. There are better ways but for all we know Ric and Charlotte came up with the idea.
Even if they didn't come up with it, I'd be pretty sure they cleared it. And that leaves me thinking that it is one thing for Charlotte to use her father to get ahead in the game. That seems a win-win-win for all involved. She gets to the top, WWE gets a star it can easily brand and Ric gets to stay in the spotlight. But do you really want to get ahead by using your dead brother? Because that's what she seems to have done here, to have him thrown in just to "sell" a PPV that I think people are watching for the Undertaker, or to see the new men's champion, not for Paige vs Charlotte and hell they don't even have to sell PPVs any more. I've not seen it, so I can only comment on what I see here, but hey people wonder why wrestling is looked down on and doesn't sell advertising on TV, look no further than this type of angle I'd say.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:04 am

Samo wrote:
Already at this point the tournament feels like a success.  Both mid card champions being in the semi's elevates them and the titles by proxy, even more so if one of them makes it to the final (which is where the mid card titles should be, knocking at the door of the top title).  Reigns had one of his best matches with Cesaro, Neville vs Owens was a solid opener and Kalisto looked the part, he reminded me of a young Mysterio, they've a gem on their hands if they work it right.  Ambrose vs Ziggler was decent enough but my least favourite of the 4 Quarters.
I was ready to write the tournament off, but this Raw seems to have some good matches and I must say I'm looking forward to the semis and final at Survivor Series.

My problem since the tournament was announced was:
- The whole story is about Reigns. Even if he doesn't win, the narrative is who turns on him, or does he turn. Having a tournament that is so focused on one competitor seems against the tournament idea. And you can see that, no one (at least on here) was excited when this was announced and fantasy booking various scenario winners.
- I appreciate it was pulled together at short notice. But some of the competitor seemed so random. Titus, but not his partner. No Brock. Stardust. Tyler Breeze has just come up and is in a tournament for the title! When you saw the names written down, it really showed that WWE has not done a good job in creating / keeping 16 guys who you'd see in a tournament for their title.

But now we've got the bit part players out of the way, the line up going into Survivor Series looks good and I'm interested to see how it plays out.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Samo on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:37 am

Reigns making the final is written on the wall. Ambrose vs Owens intrigues me. The obvious choice is Ambrose to go through so either man can turn, but they could put Owens over Ambrose for the Face/Heel dynamic. Or Owens can go on and win the full thing with Ambrose costing Reigns the final.

The only really dissapointing outcome I can think of is Face Reigns beats Face Ambrose and Sheamus cashes in with no turn.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:44 am

Samo wrote:Reigns making the final is written on the wall.  Ambrose vs Owens intrigues me.  The obvious choice is Ambrose to go through so either man can turn, but they could put Owens over Ambrose for the Face/Heel dynamic.  Or Owens can go on and win the full thing with Ambrose costing Reigns the final.

The only really dissapointing outcome I can think of is Face Reigns beats Face Ambrose and Sheamus cashes in with no turn.

On scanning the recap, wasn't there a HHH / Owens aside? The question is, now the tournament is on, how could the Authority influence the outcome? I think I'd find it interesting if Reigns won, and then HHH comes out and declares it best of 3 falls. And the title is snatched away from Reigns this way. IMO he's going to be better in the chase, than holding the title.

The other part in play, of course, is Sheamus and a cash in (as you say). I know others think more highly of Sheamus than I do, but IMO he's at his most interesting carrying the case. I don't see him as champ at the moment, but while he still has that case in his hand he is a presence. So, I'd have him try to cash in on Owens, but have HHH hold him back. An odd alliance between Reigns and Sheamus, both cheated by the Authority, can give a 3-way and other avenues to go in.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by NickisBHAFC on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 12:09 pm

Reigns or Ambrose are turning heel. Unless they have a Sheamus cash in.

Few good matches, but other wise a boring Raw apart from the opening segment.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Samo on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 12:15 pm

Prometheus wrote:
Samo wrote:Reigns making the final is written on the wall.  Ambrose vs Owens intrigues me.  The obvious choice is Ambrose to go through so either man can turn, but they could put Owens over Ambrose for the Face/Heel dynamic.  Or Owens can go on and win the full thing with Ambrose costing Reigns the final.

The only really dissapointing outcome I can think of is Face Reigns beats Face Ambrose and Sheamus cashes in with no turn.

On scanning the recap, wasn't there a HHH / Owens aside?  The question is, now the tournament is on, how could the Authority influence the outcome?  I think I'd find it interesting if Reigns won, and then HHH comes out and declares it best of 3 falls.  And the title is snatched away from Reigns this way.  IMO he's going to be better in the chase, than holding the title.

The other part in play, of course, is Sheamus and a cash in (as you say).  I know others think more highly of Sheamus than I do, but IMO he's at his most interesting carrying the case.  I don't see him as champ at the moment, but while he still has that case in his hand he is a presence.  So, I'd have him try to cash in on Owens, but have HHH hold him back.  An odd alliance between Reigns and Sheamus, both cheated by the Authority, can give a 3-way and other avenues to go in.

I forgot all about HHH and Owens interaction. Interesting to see if that comes into play.

I dont hate Sheamus, but he's been booked badly in recent months. Its getting better with him just being an angry Irishman going around kicking people in the face. If he does cash in successfully I can see him being a transitional champion.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by psycho-gooner on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 12:47 pm

Excellent episode of Raw IMO. Shame the Dudleys stock have fallen already, time to debut Bully Ray perhaps?

I think Charlotte gets alot of unfair criticism, in NXT, it was rarely mentioned that she was Flairs daughter. She was her own person who can get the job done in the ring, but since she's moved up to Raw she's had to contend with WWE forcing Ric Flair into her narrative every episode. I agree that her mic skills still need work.

She can still do an excellent job in the ring and is capable of putting on 4-5* matches.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by GSC on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 2:28 pm

I struggle to take Bray Wyatts promos seriously. Hes a bit too over theatrical.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 2:36 pm

GSC wrote:I struggle to take Bray Wyatts promos seriously. Hes a bit too over theatrical.
I think there's some substance to this.

My biggest issue is "it doesn't matter". Bray Wyatt has done little since coming to WWE apart from say something to the extent of "I'm going to feud with you, because you remind me of me". And then he loses the feud. And then next week he interrupts someone else and says "I'm going to feud with you because you remind me of me". And he loses the feud. And we repeat over and over.

And I've just got to the point of "so what?". And I still like his look. And I think the entrance is still over. And he's a limited wrestler, but he can put on a match. But the rest of it, I zone out on.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Kay Fabe on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 3:30 pm

I really enjoyed that RAW, sometimes its hard to realise you enjoy it when there is 3 hours of it but on recapping it you can't really fault what they did, I'm struggling to see the logic in pitting Reigns against Cesaro though, Cesaro is the darling of the crowd and he is just brilliant to watch too, he tales the crowd on a journey during his matches, I know it'd be tempting to tempting to get a match of the night out of Reigns but I fear having him go over Cesaro (like Bryan back in Feb) will do more to build resentment rather than excitement for Reigns.

Ambrose and Ziggler were brilliant, its a shame for Ziggler, I feel his timenhas passed now to really make that last step up, he'll always have a good spot but now, particularly with only one World Title I just don't think he'll ever be truly believed in again, Ambrose on the other hand can gonas far as he wants, if the WWE believe in him then I think he's got that IT factor in him that will see him reach and stay at the top.

The Paige/Charlotte segment was awkward, I just don't oike Charlotte at all, I feel these two have the wrong roles, Charlotte just doesn't come across well at all as a Face and there was no real reason to turn Paige Heel, I felt this could have been a slow burner with Charlotte's reign causing her to turn heel jmin order to protect her spot, absolutely no problem with what Paige said to Charlotte about Reid Flair, that would have been Charlotte and Ric who made that decision, the one with the biggest problem with it would likely have been Paige, the logic behind this would be to make their match at Survivor Series feel more important, its personal now, at least for Charlotte, it makes Paige look more dastardly and it also helps create some sympathy for Charlotte, was it needed? I'd say the very fact they need to stoop to this shows that 1.it was needed and 2.they've clearly went down the wrong track in the first place but whats done is done and now I'd wager that their will be a lot more interest in the Diva match now thanks to that segement, job done.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:26 pm

liverbnz wrote:It was Charlotte that brought the brother thing up before Paige had even mentioned it. It was a poorly booked segment made worse by Charlotte's poor talking skills.

But it any regard, it should not be needed to gain heat. If it is, you are not doing your job properly.

Personally felt she played the crying and stuff excellently, and has a good defined character thanks to the way she presents herself.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:27 pm

Paige wasnt the face for this story. She had to be the one in all that stuff before and during this to turn. Charlotte long run will make a good heel, but there was no turning her yet. Definitely the right decision now.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Brilliant_yep on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:30 pm

Ric Flair has said he wasn't notified about this angle,and it made him cry.

You stay classy WWE.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:33 pm

I'm not disgusted until I know Charlotte was against it.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:55 pm

For me it's a lose-lose.

Charlotte didn't know. It's WWE who stoop down low for this angle.

Charlotte does know. It's she who'll stoop down for that main event stop.

But hey, it's wrestling. It's not like they've not been here before, or will again. Controversy, creates cash, right?
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by GSC on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:57 pm

Katie Vick happened, dont think wwe will ever top that
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Marky on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:13 pm

GSC wrote:Katie Vick happened, dont think wwe will ever top that

Randy Orton told Rey Mysterio that Eddie Guerrero wasn't in heaven, he was in hell. That was only months after Eddie died.

Also Heidenreich bumming Michael Cole.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by GSC on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:47 pm

I mentally repressed the Heidenrape. Thanks
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:51 pm

I'm not one to get offended for the sake of it. She has a family that lives and breathes wrestling. I think bringing him up was real and personal. Paige's comment was disgusting but we also know it's theatre. If Charlotte was ok with it and thought her brother would be then I think it's fine. Really is more disrespectful to suggest she has to treat her brother's name a certain way and be ready to judge than it is for her to talk of it.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by GSC on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 12:02 pm

Its in bad taste for sure, and more than a bit cheap. I cant say I'm really offended but it seems unnecessary.

That said, at least they're willing to use it on the divas division which is more than could be said 6 months ago when the entire division was being used to stick it to CM Punk.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Kay Fabe on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 12:39 pm

I don't think I've ever seen anything in Wrestling that has offended me nor do I ever imagine I will either,  bad taste? Yeap loads of times but almost every good TV show has an element of bad taste to its stories anyway

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by liverbnz on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:01 pm

Kay Fabe wrote:I don't think I've ever seen anything in Wrestling that has offended me nor do I ever imagine I will either,  bad taste? Yeap loads of times but almost every good TV show has an element of bad taste to its stories anyway

Yes they do, but they generally don't involve something that's actually happened in real life. That's where the bad taste comes from.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Fernando on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:03 pm

Survivor Series Title Spoiler:
Creative want Dean Ambrose to leave as Champion...I suspect this is being leaked to get more people watch as fairly predictable

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 2:22 pm

I have no problem with it. Bringing it up isn't in bad taste and we all judged and acknowledged that Paige was bad for saying it. It's a very easy lesson to those young enough to not see through it. 

I won't be annoyed until Paige is dragging his coffin on the back of his car through a graveyard.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Kay Fabe on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 3:26 pm

liverbnz wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:I don't think I've ever seen anything in Wrestling that has offended me nor do I ever imagine I will either,  bad taste? Yeap loads of times but almost every good TV show has an element of bad taste to its stories anyway

Yes they do, but they generally don't involve something that's actually happened in real life. That's where the bad taste comes from.
Bad taste is bad taste regardless if its based on real life or depraved fantasy, I think sometimes some people just need something to be offended by.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 4:37 pm

Meltzer has blown up about it but I really cant think Ric didnt know. Charlotte knew, so Ric would have known.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 4:41 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Meltzer has blown up about it but I really cant think Ric didnt know. Charlotte knew, so Ric would have known.
I didn't listen to his podcast, but I believe this is the quote (EDIT sorry not Meltzer's podcast, Ric's):

"I never heard a word about it. I started crying while I was watching it. Nope, nobody called me and nobody has called me today. That would indicate that they just assumed that that's good. So I don't have an answer for that."

And Reid's mother apparently posted on Twitter.  disgusting disrespectful cruel
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Fernando on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:03 pm

According to F4WOnline.com, WWE will be releasing a statement soon addressing the controversial Charlotte and Paige angle which closed WWE Raw this week and mentioned the death of Charlotte’s brother Reid Flair.

Reportedly, the statement will claim the idea came from Charlotte herself, and that it was at one point taken out of the Raw script but Charlotte insisted it remain in the show.

The statement should note, however, that WWE does take full responsibility for the angle considering they made the final decision to put it on their show.

Ric Flair's co host on the podcast has declared what their going to say 100% false.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:16 pm

Hahaha. Way to throw her under the bus. If this were absolutely Charlotte's idea and she was totally wedded to it, you've got to handle it by letting her be the mouthpiece. This totally and utterly exposes her. She'll be lucky at this rate if she's not cracked by Sunday.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Fernando on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:36 pm

WWE Statement: “Subject matter this personal is only approved as a result of the strong advocacy of the talent themselves. Notwithstanding that, WWE is ultimately responsible for what airs in its programming.”

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Samo on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 7:45 am

Seems a bit sad that this is putting heat on WWE rather than Paige. Yay reality era.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Kay Fabe on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 2:18 pm

If Charlotte doesn't come out for that and say she OK'd it I can see Vince burying her.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Fernando on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 2:28 pm

I don't think Vince cares either way KF, He knows their's money in Bayley & Sasha if do things properly.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Kay Fabe on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 4:09 pm

I don't get Bayley at all to be honest, i know shes really over in NXT and her and Sasha had a good feud but I think her gimmick could get stale pretty quickly, I'm not so sure she'd get the time in the main roster to do the things she has to do to get her over on NXT

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Samo on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 4:35 pm

I think theres money in Bayley because her gimmick is all about just being herself - which is refreshing in a sea of vain egos and determined atheletes. Shes the kind of person you wouldnt have a problem with your daughter wanting to emulate.

Shes decent enough in the ring and on the mic but its the marketability that will keep her around.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 4:57 pm

Id expect Ric to have cried watching it whether he ok'd it or not.

Still think its all a bit daft, reminds me of all the complaints about Brand and Ross when they hadnt even listened to it. People want to be offended and riled up

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Brilliant_yep on Sat 21 Nov 2015, 10:47 am

It doesn't offend me in the slightest,with all due respect it wasn't like he died last week.

I do have a problem with the fact Ric didn't even know about it,he 100% needed to be kept in the loop about that as he would obviously watch the segment.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Sat 21 Nov 2015, 11:39 am

What happened in Paris last week outrages me, this just feels tacky and leaves a sour taste in my mouth, one of those times I'm less than proud to be a wrestling fan.

no doubt this ends with Charlotte winning and dedicating the win to Reid and everyone is happy. But I don't think the path they chose to get there and the way it was implemented was very wise. And I'd be amazed if it had had a big effect on PPV orders or Network subscriptions.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 21 Nov 2015, 12:07 pm

The fact that is being overshadowed is that WWE put them in the "main event" slot of Raw and built up to it throughout the show really nicely. I think the whole thing from start to finish added more interest in the match and I think gave it a situation where Charlotte is the sympathetic face. 

Still think it kind of fits Paige's recent character too. She's meant to be a silly billy and a brat. She'd say something not cos she believed it but to get the reaction. 

It wasn't pretty but it's fiction.

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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Post by Prometheus on Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:36 pm

Given how viewing figures are highest at the start of the show and tail off by the end of hour 3, I wonder if/when WWE might see the ending of TV not as a main event. Seems funny to be thinking your top spot might be watched by 0.5M less people than your opener.
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Re: WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

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