Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

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Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 24 Dec 2015, 8:56 am

First topic message reminder :

Jimmy Anderson officially out, Woakes and Finn expected to be named with Jordan, footitt and ballance missing out.

Joe Root missing training today due to an upset stomach, but should be ok for day one
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by GSC on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:49 pm

10 minutes to the cut off you'd send out Finn wouldn't you?
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by alfie on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:50 pm

Steyn strikes ...Taylor , rather surprisingly , edges and gone for 70

I blame Botham. A little delayed ; but when he started talking about England having the better of the day and how they just needed to get through to the close etc I knew something would go wrong Smile

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:51 pm

GSC wrote:10 minutes to the cut off you'd send out Finn wouldn't you?

If a batsman can't survive a couple balls at the end of the day he really shouldn't call himself a batsman
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:53 pm

Only 10 minutes? I take back what I said about Stokes then. Send Woakes out - although Stokes doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'd ask for a NW...

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by alfie on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:53 pm

GSC wrote:10 minutes to the cut off you'd send out Finn wouldn't you?

I think I would : but maybe Stokes wants to come in in his planned spot ?

With the very deep batting lineup perhaps they are less inclined to shuffle everyone down one : as it is , Broad will be batting ten...

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by GSC on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:54 pm

I'm guessing better batsman than Ben Stokes have got a good one from Dale Steyn in fading light.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:55 pm

And they're off. Even more frustrating for Taylor you'd think.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by GSC on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:58 pm

Probably a balanced day. Taylors wicket brings SA back into it, strong partnership from Taylor and Compton, but with reduced overs and a slowish scoring rate they didn't quite manage to pull away in the game.

Set up well for day 2.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:59 pm

179-4 at the close of play - even day, Saffas probably more disappointed they didn't get more wickets.

Compton played well, but there's signs of why he was dropped in the first place in this innings
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by alfie on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:00 pm

Light calls it off for the day...

179/4 makes it about even I reckon. Perhaps SA will feel they should have got more after the start they had ...but that wicket at the end will slightly qualify England's delight at having recovered so well.
This was a very interesting day - not easy for batsmen ; but I generally prefer to watch a struggle than see batsmen just whacking boundaries at will. Saw enough of that in the Aus/WI game earlier Smile
Will wait for Craig to produce a road map for tomorrow , when we are told the weather will be kinder.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by GSC on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:01 pm

I don't really have an issue with the run rate given the situation he and Taylor were rebuilding from. But yeah, he's still got to show he has that extra gear when the situation calls for it.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:02 pm

Slow pitch with a slow outfield. There is a little bit of spin, and it is doing bit off the seam but I don't think batting conditions have been that bad, just tough to score quickly. England will be targetting at least 350 you'd think. I'd give the edge to SA after that late wicket, probably all square barring that.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:03 pm

GSC wrote:I don't really have an issue with the run rate given the situation he and Taylor were rebuilding from. But yeah, he's still got to show he has that extra gear when the situation calls for it.

I agree fine today, just something to watch going forward with him
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:04 pm

I think the main issue with Compton is that today is him batting in quite good nick, you can see (and we have seen) how painful he can be to watch when he isn't in touch! Just has to find a method to make it work when that is the case. An ideal knock for the situation from NC today though.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:18 pm

Good day of cricket, despite the weather.

I think England are just ahead. After inserting a side to bat, the fielding side would have wanted more than four wickets in 65 overs - and England do bat deep.

It was most pleasing to see Compton and Taylor score runs, especially after the two heralded batsmen in the England line-up were out cheaply. We all know Cook and Root will fire at least one big score each this series, and if the lesser-championed members of England's batting order prop them up with able assistance then it will be a victorious series for Cook's team.

Steyn bowled very well, but he was doing it alone for considerable periods. The English should make at least 350, but if they see through the second new ball comfortably, 450+ and a 1-0 lead is on.

I can't see South Africa making more than 300 in their first innings.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 4:20 pm

Dale Steyn just confessed he's not as skilful as Jimmy A. Don't tell KingRaf... Whistle

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 5:07 pm

That late wicket made it more of an even day. The England lower  middle order and lower order can be dynamic, but they can collapse in a heap too. Steyn's back and bowling like he always does, but Morkel and Abbott didn't support him well enough. It could be different tomorrow, and England can still find themselves in a tricky situation. But if the SA bowlers aren't on top of their game in the morning, the likes of Stokes can run away with it quite quickly indeed. And if they reach the new ball without too much damage, then Bairstow, Ali, Woakes and Broad can inflict quite a bit of it on the Saffers later on.
The game is shaping up nicely........


Last edited by msp83 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 6:28 pm

JDizzle wrote:Dale Steyn just confessed he's not as skilful as Jimmy A. Don't tell KingRaf... Whistle
Six years as the #1 ranked bowler in the world vs zero days...
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 6:32 pm

Even enough day. Think England are slightly ahead, but it's fair enough.

I'm disappointed with the pitch though. I'm not a fan of Durban getting a Test, the weather sucks. The crowds are (generally) empty. We can't be having ABDV collecting 90mph balls at his ankles 50 overs in. Jeez hopefully we go back to PE after this
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by KP_fan on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 8:08 pm

I have said about Compton when I saw him in tours of India and NZ ...this guy has temperament and innings building ability and that he should have gotten a much longer rope ...Flower's whim or ego or both and selector's snootiness ...... ate up about 3 prime years of his life...

and Taylor...every time i saw him bat in ODis....had to ask....why is he not playing tests...

anyway....better late than never...they are both in the playing 11 and as the situation corrects itself further....Ballance will replace Hales as Compton will go up to the opening slot.
Bell should have been the one to be dropped instead of Ballance  when Ballance got dumped. The latter is a good quality test match batsman.



Eng are very much in the game.....so far and if their allrounders can each get 20s and 30s...they will get close to 300ish.....competitive against a SA side...whose biggest weakness to me... is lack of leadership
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by KP_fan on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 8:53 pm

a few more observations....

--Steyn didn't look in peak rhythm generally in low 130s...and although he bowled well all his 3 wickets were to deliveries bastmen fished and could have well left alone...

--Taylor on closer look technically is like Rahane....plays quite close to the body and very late.....packs a punch in his strokes and similar in physical stature too.
should be disappointed in not converting this one into a hundred.

--Root wasn't picking the length today.....pulled one that was too full to pull although he got a four or 6 for it....and again missed the length of the one that had him LBW.
It's actually quite rare and hence worrying when a top order batsman misjudges the length...
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by GSC on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 10:20 pm

Taylors beginning to develop a habit now of failing to convert these scores into big 100s.

On Ballance, I though both he and Bell should've gone. Certainly he was in such a poor run of form, it was hard to keep him in the team, and teams keep exploiting the same weakness.

He'll be back, but he had some kinks in his game he needed to work out.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by alfie on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 6:03 am

Bit hard to knock Taylor for falling short of 100 this time I think... Ground was very slow and his 70 would have been 90 on another day; and , at least early on , batting conditions were quite tough. It was never a good seeing day so it took a lot of concentration to bat through (all credit to Compton!) and a momentary lapse of concentration cost him , just minutes from the close.

Thought Steyn bowled really well : I'd give him a lot more credit than KP_fan is doing for the wickets. He perhaps wasn't backed up too well though : Abbott looked steady but not too threatening , Morkel didn't quite hit his length enough , and the spinners (one vital wicket apart) didn't look too dangerous.
Today may be different : New ball in fifteen , and England will want to get safely to and through it if they are to prosper , long lineup or no. SA will be glad perhaps the interruptions meant their main bowlers haven't had to be overbowled , as I sense they are one seamer light...

I'm happy with Compton's innings : in this side his job is to anchor , especially with Cook falling early. Hope he continues today - Stokes , Bairstow , Ali are all strokeplayers , so if he can lock up one end he'll be doing a perfect job. Whether his talents will be enough for an extended career , time will tell.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 6:49 am

Steyn didn't crank it up as much as he usually does. Not sure it is a rhythm issue, perhaps he's building up miles on the legs before going flat out. Or it is the usual trick, remember India's previous test here, he was bowling more or less the way he did, bowling well within himself and still looking good, but as Virat Kohli and Cheteshwar Pujara took the attack to the bowlers, India looked in a strong position. Next morning, Steyn just steamed in, consistently swung it at 145+ and turned the game on its head!
Dale here could do with a bit of support from Morne and Abbott though.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by LivinginItaly on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 6:54 am

I have to say i quite like the balance of this England batting line up. The opening partnership starts with one left-handed accumulator and one right-handed stroke maker. The only point of concern being whether Hayles will make big enough scores or succumb to the unnecessary shot like yesterday. Compton at 3 has the potential to become the anchor around which a big innings can be built, the replacement for Trott of about 4/5 years ago. My only worry would be the prospect of Cook and Compton at one wicket down scratching around going nowhere fast and allowing the opposition to build pressure. Root and Taylor for me have the potential to become a real top quality middle order adept for all conditions and situations, but i want to see Taylor convert a fifty into a hundred or big hundred soon to.remove any possible questions. Then the lower order of stokes, bairstow (or buttler) Ali have the ability to score quickly making a winning difference.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 7:29 am

One or two sticks before the new ball and we're definitely in this
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 7:43 am

Raf, what are your thoughts on the Abbott v Rabada selection? The young lad has something special about him, the more game time he gets with the master Steyn will only help him and South Africa, and even at this stage of his career, think young Rabada as such is a better option. How likely is he to play a test in the series?

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 7:49 am

Stokes on the attack, and he's going after Steyn of all people! This could be fun! Don't think Dale would take kindly to being bossed around!

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 7:52 am

I think Abbot always had the inside lane because of his fifer in India which is probably fair enough. My gut instinct was that we should go with four pace bowlers, but given the fact that it's coming to the keeper at ankle height, a spinner was probably a necessity.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 7:55 am

The ball seems to be reversing for Steyn, but how long can Amla keep him on? They would need him with the new ball.
Morkel not getting right today either, the line isn't good enough to make a strokemaker like Stokes play!

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 7:57 am

One day I'll buy into Ben Stokes' "talent". Today is not that day
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 8:00 am

Morkel gets Stokes with a short one! Not a great delivery, Stokes just didn't get his shot well executed...... But that might help Morkel settle down, his first wicket of the match.......

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 8:01 am

Oh Benjamin you were looking so good too

Time for jonny bairstow to fail again
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 8:30 am

Swann making a good point about Compton on radio, comparing the way he plays to Trott which is fine, but where Trott could nurdle ones and twos off his defensive strokes, Compton struggles to do so. That's where he needs to develop in his eyes and I agree. Nothing major, but just keeping the scoreboard ticking over more
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:23 am

Sorry I am a bit late with the road map Alfie. Prior to this flurry of wickets I would have said England to bat through to tea to reach 350 but now with Woakes, Ali and Compton going in quick succession I would say England would settle for reaching 300 in this innings around mid-afternoon. South Africa would want to get to close of play at no worse than 100 for 2 whilst England would want to have made inroads (say 80 for 4).
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by VTR on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:31 am

Hmm, long batting line up or lack or reliable quality from 6 onwards?

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:35 am

Swann is spot on about Comoton though. With the exception of Taylor, no one in the England side has really held themselves up, but at the same time, as a team if your #3 bats for over 80 overs you expect him to have kicked on, especially in SA/Aus where conditions are good for batting when the Kookaburra is old but not yet reversing. England are in a bit of bother now and I think it wouldn't be unfair to say Compton's pace has at the very least not helped
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:42 am

Had I not spent a month witnessing similar collapses from South Africa for far lesser scores I'd find this pretty Lulz
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:48 am

I disagree with regards to Compton king raf. England are stacked with enough fast scoring batsmen to be able to have a player who bats more circumspect. Compton's innings helped greatly to hold the whole innings together holding one end up whilst others did the scoring. Sooner he hangs around for 80 overs to score 85 rather than hang around for 10 overs to score 30.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:49 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:I disagree with regards to Compton king raf. England are stacked with enough fast scoring batsmen to be able to have a player who bats more circumspect. Compton's innings helped greatly to hold the whole innings together holding one end up whilst others did the scoring. Sooner he hangs around for 80 overs to score 85 rather than hang around for 10 overs to score 30.

Sooner my #3 scores runs to be honest
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 9:54 am

kingraf wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I disagree with regards to Compton king raf. England are stacked with enough fast scoring batsmen to be able to have a player who bats more circumspect. Compton's innings helped greatly to hold the whole innings together holding one end up whilst others did the scoring. Sooner he hangs around for 80 overs to score 85 rather than hang around for 10 overs to score 30.

Sooner my #3 scores runs to be honest

Yes and he scored 85. His strike rate was similar to what Cook's is at times. It was a Cook-esque type innings where he dropped anchor and held an end up and scored big whilst others were more aggressive.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by VTR on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:02 am

I don't see how Compton can be criticised here, look at what has happened since he got out!

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:04 am

Frankly, I am flabbergasted that any batsman scoring 85 (top score in the innings) can be criticised.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:05 am

VTR wrote:I don't see how Compton can be criticised here, look at what has happened since he got out!

If it helps I'm criticising him PRECISELY for what happened since he got out
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:08 am

kingraf wrote:
VTR wrote:I don't see how Compton can be criticised here, look at what has happened since he got out!

If it helps I'm criticising him PRECISELY for what happened since he got out

A collapse? He can hardly be blamed for that surely?
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:11 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
kingraf wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I disagree with regards to Compton king raf. England are stacked with enough fast scoring batsmen to be able to have a player who bats more circumspect. Compton's innings helped greatly to hold the whole innings together holding one end up whilst others did the scoring. Sooner he hangs around for 80 overs to score 85 rather than hang around for 10 overs to score 30.

Sooner my #3 scores runs to be honest

Yes and he scored 85. His strike rate was similar to what Cook's is at times. It was a Cook-esque type innings where he dropped anchor and held an end up and scored big whilst others were more aggressive.

Cook is always more pro-active at the crease than that and a strike-rate of 36 just isn't good enough in the long term, Ballance is obdurate so and so early on but knows how to move through the gears when he's set, Compton just drops anchor even more.

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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:14 am

The point is Hh is that his performance however slow he scored at held the innings together. If Stokes approach floats your boat then fine but it certainly did nothing to hold an innings together.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:15 am

Look nobody is criticising him for scoring 85.

What we're saying is he should've scored more by being more proactive. This is exactly the issue with why he was dropped in the first place.

Cook has a strike rate up around 50 because he does exactly that. Trott was the same. Keeping the scoreboard ticking over is crucial.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:17 am

Cricket isn't played in a vacuum. Lower order collapses happen.
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:17 am

Anyways handy little partnership between broad and Finn has taken us over 300. To be honest I'd have taken this when put in and with Cook going cheaply early
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Re: Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

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