Pro12 v English Championship

Topic open to all here but was having a discussion with another fellow Taffy on another media site about how I don't that playing for Brizzle in the Championship is of a good enough standard for the likes of Matthew Morgan and Ian Evans or who any other player playing there with Welsh ambitions.

Now first off I will admit to only a passing interest in the Championship for few seasons now but use to watch Bedford regularly before work and time constraints dictated otherwise.

The other person who I was talking with was adamant that the Championship is of a higher level than that of the Pro12 to which I disagreed. So am I wrong, has the standard rasied considerably over the past few years?

Honestly I only watch the playoff matches in the Championship, which would not be of a similar standard to the matches between the top 6 in the Pro12, and quite far behind the playoffs in the Pro12. But you'd expect those games would be the highest standard.

Matches between the bottom 4 sides in the Pro12 are quite low quality however. There's quite a range in quality in the Pro12. Zebre vs Treviso is a world away from Munster vs Leinster.

In terms of quality, this is one of the worse seasons in the Pro12 because there is no-one outstanding side. I find it hard to imagine that a Championship side could ever match the standard of Glasgow in 2014/2015, Leinster in 2013/2014 or Ulster in 2012/2013. In 2015/2016 there isn't any team in the same form.

This was my sort of argument Notch, I agreed that the standard varies in our league and the Regions themselves are not brilliant at moment but and its only opinions but his was that the top four or 5 in the Championship would easily be making the play offs of the Pro12 on a regular basis.

Something I just couldn't see happening.

I like to hold to the idea that extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. And that is complete goat turd so he better be able to back that up (especially since Bristol can't even get promoted over some of the teams and all are towards the bottom of the league). Certainly doesn't suggest a general high standard.

He seemed to have a big love in for Matthew Morgan and that he should be in the Welsh team pretty much all the time so he maybe blinkered by that and again there was no animosity just a good heated debate so just wanted to get the views of others in case I had missed something.

There are some very decent individual players in the Championship (which AP clubs started figuring out a couple of years ago), but the overall standard is nothing like as good as the Pro12 (or to a lesser extent the Pro D2).

bedfordwelsh wrote:He seemed to have a big love in for Matthew Morgan and that he should be in the Welsh team pretty much all the time.

You can pretty much tell he knows Fark awl about rugby then.

If we look at the results of the B&I cup, sure the championship sides have won a couple against Irish 'A' sides and a couple of Welsh regional premiership select XVs (what a mouthful), but they tend to field full strength teams. Cardiff Blues select XV won away recently at Cornish Pirates. It's hardly a ringing endorsement for the English championship.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He seemed to have a big love in for Matthew Morgan and that he should be in the Welsh team pretty much all the time.

You can pretty much tell he knows Fark awl about rugby then.

now now chunky no need to be so harsh lol

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He seemed to have a big love in for Matthew Morgan and that he should be in the Welsh team pretty much all the time.

You can pretty much tell he knows Fark awl about rugby then.

now now chunky no need to be so harsh lol

Harsh but fair I feel.

Blueschief wrote:If we look at the results of the B&I cup, sure the championship sides have won a couple against Irish 'A' sides and a couple of Welsh regional premiership select XVs (what a mouthful), but they tend to field full strength teams. Cardiff Blues select XV won away recently at Cornish Pirates. It's hardly a ringing endorsement for the English championship.

Don't forget also that the regional selct sides are thrown together last minute. The championship sides play together week in week out so I'd expect them to whoop the regional select boys.

As a season holder with both Bath and Dragons I'm in a good position to rate both the Aviva and Pro12 and the Aviva consistenly produces better quality rugby. Unfortunately I haven't seen any improvement in the Pro12 league for years. However, the English championship standard is nowhere near as good as the Pro12 (huge gap between Bristol and most other teams).

I don't doubt that the Championship is above the Welsh premier league in terms of standard. There's some really good teams and players in the English Championship. However, Matthew Morgan is an excellent case in point: if someone who struggled for consistency, physicality and a place in the team at the Ospreys can go and light up the league in the Championship, I think that says something about the standard of the league he's entered. He looks awesome because it's easier than what he was used to in the pro 12.

Blueschief wrote:If we look at the results of the B&I cup, sure the championship sides have won a couple against Irish 'A' sides and a couple of Welsh regional premiership select XVs (what a mouthful), but they tend to field full strength teams. Cardiff Blues select XV won away recently at Cornish Pirates. It's hardly a ringing endorsement for the English championship.

The championship sides are rarely selecting full strength teams for these fixtures.

However the overall standard of the Championship is some way below that of the Pro12.

I stand corrected LT.

Blueschief wrote:I stand corrected LT.

Oh I am sure they select more starters than the Regions/Provinces - but yeah they use these weekends as a chance to rotate and rest.

Morgan was still dropped for Bristol in the playoffs as he struggled to control the game vs Worcester. At Bristol he excels because they offer him a platform for him to be as creative as he wants and that suits him well.

The Championship is a professional league so their are good players and setups but finance means they aren't competitive with the regions in terms of quality. Unfortunately for a lot of Championship sides they are picked clean of their best and brightest and so are constantly rebuilding.

The Pro 12 fluctuates throughout the season. It has 4 international squads to supply so naturally the standards will go through peaks and troughs.


Even so, if you take away the 3 bottom sides (Treviso, Zebre and Dragons) its very competitive. I also think that at least one of the Italians will come good in the next 5 years. Maybe not reach a playoff place but I can see them being more competitive.

Zebre would routine ANY championship side.

VinceWLB wrote:Zebre would routine ANY championship side.

Sure they hammered Worcester at home in the challenge cup not long ago.

profitius wrote:The Pro 12 fluctuates throughout the season. It has 4 international squads to supply so naturally the standards will go through peaks and troughs.

Some people still don't understand this though. It's a large reason why huge chunks of the pro12 season are dire in quality, and other leagues like the Aviva Prem and Top14 are way ahead in quality during the same periods.