Is my cut valid?

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Is my cut valid? Empty Is my cut valid?

Post by BlueCoverman on Sun 03 Jan 2016, 9:28 pm

Played in the Presidents New Years Cup at my Essex club today. Course absolutely saturated and very surprised to find it open. Nevertheless the competition went ahead albeit with pick and place in force in the rough as well as on the fairway and the bunkers out of play with a free drop at nearest point of relief.

Par is 72 and CSS was calculated at 73. I shot a gross 78, net 72 for fourth place and a 0.2 cut down to 5.5. Whilst very pleased to get a cut and edge back closer to category one, I can't help wondering if with the rules as they were played this morning if my cut is valid? What's your opinion, anyone had a similar circumstance?

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Post by JAS on Sun 03 Jan 2016, 9:37 pm

Hmmm, not sure about pick & place in the rough. I thought all you could do in the rough in poor (wet) conditions was roll a ball out of a plugged lie (without cleaning it). Maybe it should have been a non qualifier. Good shooting though Blue, you just dipped under my exact :-p

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Post by pedro on Sun 03 Jan 2016, 11:11 pm

Don't know about the rules but don't think it should be valid. It wouldn't be fair if your hcp is benefitted by bad weather / p&p.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 03 Jan 2016, 11:30 pm

. . . . . "pick & place" has been used in the pros, don't see why it shouldn't be used in club play.
But, surely, all "local rules" should have been explained in advance?

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Post by pedro on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 8:36 am

Sure, you can use it. But valid for hcp? I doubt it. When pros play with p&p most stats are not officially recorded.

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Post by hend085 on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 9:51 am

i dont think they should have published a CSS

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Post by golfermartin on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 10:20 am

The only thing that I think would have rendered the competition a non qualifying completion is pick and place in the rough. When a ball is plugged in the rough it is permissible to have a local rule which allows you to pick, clean and drop. A suggested local rule is included in the rules of golf. A qualifying competition can still go ahead if all bunkers are out of play for maintenance, for example, and declared GUR.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 10:20 am

It's the same for everyone out there so if enough people played for it to be a qualifier and it was run in accordance with the rules in place then I'd say the cut is valid.

On the flip side, did the majority get a point 1 or was it reductions only?

Placing in the rough sounds a little odd to me, but then again we have just introduced using a tee on the fairway while the ground is so sodden. Not convinced that will help the course much - but then again I doubt many people are getting out on it anyway, it's been horrific.


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Post by SmithersJones on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:29 pm

Certainly not allowed at our place because of the pwp through the green.
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Post by George1507 on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:14 pm

Competitions played under winter rules are qualifying under CONGU guidelines.

The committee should specify precisely what the winter rules are. There are a few specimen winter rules in the back of the RoG, but committees don't have to adopt any of them, the committee can make its own rule. Although placing in the rough is unusual, it's ok to do that if the committee says so.

If the course is shortened by more than 10 yards on any one hole, or 100 yards in total from the measured course, then the competition MAY be non qualifying.

Presumably the SSS is about 71 or 72, if so I'd say it's fine to make it a qualifying competition. Occasionally in the winter you get competitions where the weather is good, tees are well forward, winter rules in force, bunkers GUR and people come in with scores 10 or more under the SSS. Then it should become non qualifying.

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Post by BlueCoverman on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 7:40 pm

George1507 wrote:Competitions played under winter rules are qualifying under CONGU guidelines.

The committee should specify precisely what the winter rules are. There are a few specimen winter rules in the back of the RoG, but committees don't have to adopt any of them, the committee can make its own rule. Although placing in the rough is unusual, it's ok to do that if the committee says so.

I didn't realise that a committee had that kind of autonomous authority but with the explanation from George that is obviously what happened in this case. I'm a bit surprised really, it can be hard enough to be on the committee anyway sometimes let alone without definite guidelines and proceedures to follow. Still I suppose it gives some of the more pugnacious members more ammunition to argue about!

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Post by SetupDeterminesTheMotion on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 9:01 am

My mate once played in a non-qualifier, played 5 below CSS and got cut. We got the explanation, he was cut under general play.?
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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 3:14 pm

George1507 wrote:
If the course is shortened by more than 10 yards on any one hole, or 100 yards in total from the measured course, then the competition MAY be non qualifying.

I was surprised to read this. At most courses the tee marker (where measurements are taken from) is at the back of the tee. It's pretty common at my course (and previous course too) to play from further forward in winter, even if it is still from the same tee. This easily adds up to 100 yards+ over the 18 holes but I've never heard of this resulting in a competition becoming non-qualifying.

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Post by Davie on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 8:03 pm

It's correct though Ray - any qualifier must be within however many yards it is of the measured distance - my club plays most of the winter qualifiers from the yellow tees to avoid this problem - the back tees are usually unsuitable for winter golf and in fact during the winter the white markers are generally the same as the yellows - which would make them ineligible for a qualifying comp

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Post by George1507 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 8:57 am

Most courses have at least three measured courses - white and yellow for men, and red for women - and sometimes men too.

So if you are playing off forward tees, it doesn't necessarily mean that the course you are playing is not 'a measured course'.

Also bear in mind that the CSS is calculated on the basis of the scores on that day, so they reflect the conditions regardless of the tees played off.

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Post by raycastleunited on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:05 pm

That's a good point George, the yellows are normally a measured course also with their own separate SSS.

Nevertheless, I have played in qualifying comps where the winter tee on one or more hole was more than 10 yards forward from the tee marker (white or yellow). It's pretty common, e.g. where winter work is being carried out on a tee. I suppose the committee has discretion here.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:08 pm

Does it matter? If you've been cut, be happy.

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