Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

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Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 11:31 am

I know this is an old article, but I was just reading about rugby and this was a headline on the website:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/12017162/Welsh-rugby-does-not-have-its-own-drugs-problem-the-issue-lies-in-the-entire-countrys-steroid-addiction.html

It makes a lot of sense and I am glad that it has pointed out that steroid abuse is not a rugby problem, but a social problem. Yes we have people banned in Wales from rugby because of it, but these people are taking the drugs to make them look better rather than perform better, yes I know it is still an issue, but at least this article in the Telegraph does not make us look like a nation of cheats, and puts a correct angle on the issue.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 11:38 am

If I lived in Wales I would take drugs as well.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 11:40 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:If I lived in Wales I would take drugs as well.

A lot like Scotland's heroin issues eh FES ?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 11:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:If I lived in Wales I would take drugs as well.

A lot like Scotland's heroin issues eh FES ?

That is somehow different.... Wink

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 11:51 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:That is somehow different.... Wink

Laugh

OK, we will leave that one there.

Back on subject, at least it is not Pro players that are getting banned for PED's in Wales, and it more of a social problem rather than a rugby problem, which is what I have tried pointing out on this forum before, but nobody would listen to me, hence I was glad I found that article in the Telegraph.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Stone Motif on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I know this is an old article, but I was just reading about rugby and this was a headline on the website:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/12017162/Welsh-rugby-does-not-have-its-own-drugs-problem-the-issue-lies-in-the-entire-countrys-steroid-addiction.html

It makes a lot of sense and I am glad that it has pointed out that steroid abuse is not a rugby problem, but a social problem. Yes we have people banned in Wales from rugby because of it, but these people are taking the drugs to make them look better rather than perform better, yes I know it is still an issue, but at least this article in the Telegraph does not make us look like a nation of cheats, and puts a correct angle on the issue.

Yet it will always be prevalent in rugby due to the emphasis on size. Don't think pro players are immune they are probably just cleverer about cycling gear around testing. Every semi-pro player I've ever met from the Welsh Prem has told me unreservedly use of the Aberdare tic tacs is absolutely rife.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:20 pm

To claim rugby players are taking steroids only so they look better is head in the sand stuff.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:25 pm

LondonTiger wrote:To claim rugby players are taking steroids only so they look better is head in the sand stuff.

There are more people taking steroids and NOT playing rugby in Wales. So yes, I would say it is a social problem, with kids on the town putting on tiny t-shirts to show off their guns, almost every one of them, so I would not say I am burying my head in the sand.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:36 pm

These guys know full well that the strength gains will benefit their rugby. Sure the use of steroids is on the rise across the UK but to say that the only reason a semi-pro rugby player takes them is to look good, is imo deluded. There are often social pressures involved in any illicit drug use, but sportsmen know - or should - that if they partake in such use they risk being banned.

I agree this is not a Welsh Rugby issue, but it is a rugby issue across the UK. The number of failed testes amongst players in UK and Ireland is on the rise - and it is wrong to just wash our hands and blame "social" reasons.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 3:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Kids on the town putting on tiny t-shirts to show off their guns

I remember when my sister was going through that phase. It wasn't a pretty sight.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Big on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 4:03 pm

LondonTiger wrote:To claim rugby players are taking steroids only so they look better is head in the sand stuff.

I think that depends on the level they are playing at. For those without professional ambitions, I can well believe it is a body image thing.

I see it now in the office I work in, all the 20 something lads are primped and preened in a way that was unbelievably rare even 10 years earlier when I was in my mid-20s. It's ridiculous.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Stone Motif on Mon 04 Jan 2016, 5:45 pm

Big wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:To claim rugby players are taking steroids only so they look better is head in the sand stuff.

I think that depends on the level they are playing at.  For those without professional ambitions, I can well believe it is a body image thing.  

I see it now in the office I work in, all the 20 something lads are primped and preened in a way that was unbelievably rare even 10 years earlier when I was in my mid-20s.  It's ridiculous.  

Don't underestimate how much of their limited resources amateur rugby clubs in Wales spun away on paying players. It's a nice little earner.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 11:39 am

More interesting news from the rugby paper about drug abuse in rugby:-

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/24805/union-chief-christian-day-warns-players-over-drug-abuse/

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by marty2086 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:22 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Kids on the town putting on tiny t-shirts to show off their guns

I remember when my sister was going through that phase. It wasn't a pretty sight.

Could be worse...she could have not been wearing the t-shirt Shocked Run

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:26 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Kids on the town putting on tiny t-shirts to show off their guns

I remember when my sister was going through that phase. It wasn't a pretty sight.

Could be worse...she could have not been wearing the t-shirt Shocked Run

ah, but have you not realised what his sister was using for "guns"


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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 9:55 am

In November 2015, UKAD figures revealed Welsh rugby players from both league and union codes made up 34% of all sportsmen and women serving drugs bans in the United Kingdom.


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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:05 am

I would say about half the young male population from about 20-35 yrs of age are taking steroids or something similar in South Wales, it is not privvy to the rugby players. It's a problem we have with society.


But lets not that get in the way of your anti Welsh agenda hey TightHead. OK

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by marty2086 on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:I would say about half the young male population from about 20-35 yrs of age are taking steroids or something similar in South Wales, it is not privvy to the rugby players. It's a problem we have with society.


But lets not that get in the way of your anti Welsh agenda hey TightHead. OK

Laugh

The irony

It looks like the media en masse have an anti Welsh agenda then since quite a few have been reporting this week about a number of Welsh players failing drugs tests and used figures like TightHeads in their reporting


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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:26 am

marty2086 wrote:It looks like the media en masse have an anti Welsh agenda then since quite a few have been reporting this week about a number of Welsh players failing drugs tests and used figures like TightHeads in their reporting

marty, seriously, take the chip off your shoulder. 

The problem with substance abuse in Wales goes far beyond the realms of sport. I am going down to Merthyr Town center for a mates 40th birthday tonight, I bet half to most of the young kids will be built like brick shat houses in tight t-shirts all showing off their guns, it's how it is, it's a problem and it needs sorting, not to be seen as a stick to beat us with.

Most of the rugby players caught using these substances are not even pro players, they are amateur, I know of two recently who have just been banned playing for Measteg, they will probably give rugby up now, but will they stop juicing and going to the gym ? I doubt it.

But at least we are being open and up front about it, I wonder how many amateur rugby players from other countries are doing it ? I bet there are just as much. But there does not seem to be as much focus on it as other countries are not as honest about it.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by marty2086 on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:31 am

Chip? Says the guy accusing someone of presenting facts of being biased.

You say the guys you see are on steroids, you may be right but you may also be wrong unless you have been secretly testing them?

Other countries may also have the problem but considering that the same agency finding the Welsh rugby players using are testing in England, NI and Scotland and across more than 40 sports and over a third of fails are Welsh rugby players that does indicate a problem

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:37 am

How are my comments anti welsh, they are on a national newspapers website. 34% of all banned sportsmen/sportswomen in the UK are Welsh rugby players, that is a ridiculous high figure when you consider how many other sports there are.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:42 am

TightHEAD wrote:How are my comments anti welsh, they are on a national newspapers website. 34% of all banned sportsmen/sportswomen in the UK are Welsh rugby players, that is a ridiculous high figure when you consider how many other sports there are.


Look TightHead, your comments might not be anti-Welsh, but your motives are. Especially as you were trying to bring this topic up on another thread that had nothing to do with steroid abuse. OK


Just like you are trying to now allude to "warrenball" and that is the reason behind the steroid abuse on the other thread, pleas give it a rest.

I will debate this with you, but I will not let you troll me about it.

As I have said, and you can ask any other Welsh member on this forum, the problem is not a rugby problem, it is a social problem.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:47 am

LordDowlais wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:How are my comments anti welsh, they are on a national newspapers website. 34% of all banned sportsmen/sportswomen in the UK are Welsh rugby players, that is a ridiculous high figure when you consider how many other sports there are.


Look TightHead, your comments might not be anti-Welsh, but your motives are. Especially as you were trying to bring this topic up on another thread that had nothing to do with steroid abuse. OK

You are the one always accusing me of being anti Welsh!

I have no idea what that means to be honest, unless being English and having an opinion on a welsh rugby issue is seen as being anti welsh then maybe I am, who knows?

The other thread you mention did have a relevant point, but you failed to accept that either as I was....you guessed it, being anti Welsh there too!!!!!

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 10:57 am

TightHead, then answer this question then:-

What does steroid abuse in amateur rugby have to do with Warren Gatland's style of rugby ?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:02 am

It is loosely linked because in a rugby mad country like Wales young influential people see what is required to make it to the top to earn big £'s, talent isn't always enough these days even at amateur level especially if bish bash bosh style is king (WarrenBall). You have to be big and the quickest way to get results for some is Steroids.

Believe me I'm worried that by making Hartley Captain I'm going have to coach a load of kids who want to bash each other around. It always has a knock on effect from the top down.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by marty2086 on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:07 am

TightHEAD wrote:
Believe me I'm worried that by making Hartley Captain I'm going have to coach a load of kids who want to bash each other around. It always has a knock on effect from the top down.

You think that's bad, here in Ireland we're worried our kids won't want degrees or high paying jobs and become farmers instead Tumbleweed

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:13 am

Stop being Anti-Irish Farmer Marty!

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:14 am

So what you are implying is because Wales use big players in their game plan, then ALL other teams in Wales do as well, and to get this to work they all take steroids. 

Can you not see how absurd that sounds ?

As someone who has lived in the Welsh valleys all his life, and someone who see's the troubles and strives in a very poor close knit community, I can categorically tell you that steroid abuse is rampant, and it is not just rugby players who are doing it. 

Everybody is at it, it is a serious problem, that needs sorting out, and it is not just in rugby, it is in all walks of life, yes we are a rugby mad country, but the steroid abuse is more to do with social pressures rather than trying to "make it" in rugby.

If you are not in an academy by the time you are 14 years old you might as well forget playing pro rugby when you are older, so no, I do not think that the drugs are taken to get into pro rugby, unless you think that the children are taking them as well.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:20 am

LordDowlais wrote:So what you are implying is because Wales use big players in their game plan, then ALL other teams in Wales do as well, and to get this to work they all take steroids. 

Can you not see how absurd that sounds ?

34% of all UK sportsmen/sportswomen who are banned for doping are Welsh rugby players, and you say its absurd to make a link! Erm

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:24 am

TightHEAD wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So what you are implying is because Wales use big players in their game plan, then ALL other teams in Wales do as well, and to get this to work they all take steroids. 

Can you not see how absurd that sounds ?

34% of all UK sportsmen/sportswomen who are banned for doping are Welsh rugby players, and you say its absurd to make a link! Erm


Firstly, that has nothing to do with the game plan Wales use.

Secondly 34% is just the tip of the iceberg, there are a lot more people in Wales using steroids. 

Thirdly, what point are you trying to make ?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:26 am

picard I give up.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:27 am

TightHEAD wrote:picard  I give up.


You can do that all you like.

But what point are you trying to make ?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:28 am

Head, brick wall, banging picard

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:30 am

TightHEAD wrote:Head, brick wall, banging picard


Again, what is your point ?

You are just being obnoxious now because I have asked you a question yo cannot/will not answer.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Griff on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:31 am

I've got no real evidence for this, but there does seem to be a lot of steroid abuse in the working classes in Wales (going on news reports, personal observations, anecdotal evidence, TV shows, etc). No offence to valleys towns, but you can often spot a 'valley lad' as he's juiced up and busting from his polo shirt. As rugby is still a predominantly working class sport in Wales I think we get a lot of spill over of this social problem into rugby. Put simply, a lot of working class lads take steroids, it would seem, and these also play rugby for their village/town team. I'm sure there are similar steroid issues in other working class areas of the UK and Ireland, but I wonder if those lads are rugby players too? Or perhaps the steroid users in other nations do not play sport as much as those users in Wales, so would not be detected in this way? Just an observation and thinking out loud.

I'm also skeptical of the data. Considering the shear number of players/athletes from ALL sports tested, I'd be surprised if Welsh grass roots rugby players made up 34% of all of the athletes tested, let alone be 34% of the failed tests. If that was the case it would probably be pretty much every single Welsh rugby player failing the test to make up a 3rd of all failed tests in all sport in the UK.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:33 am

Its all there mate, I have no idea what your agenda is, but you've won, well done but I can't take your anti English Poopie anymore. clap clap clap I'm done.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:39 am

Griff wrote: offence to valleys towns, but you can often spot a 'valley lad' as he's juiced up and busting from his polo shirt. 
 Griff, I am from a valleys town, and you to not have to apologise because what you are saying is 100% correct. 

The worrying thing about it is, these kids are open about what they do, taking steroids is not against the law after all. They will openly compare what they are taking, and what supplements they are on. I have two or three young twenty year old's working for me, and they are always talking about it, and to be fair to them, they look in good shape.

These boys do not play rugby either, they are too busy going down the gym in their spare time, and going out on the urine on the weekends. Steroid and supplement abuse is rife in the valleys. What we need is something done about the illegal selling of the stuff.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:42 am

TightHEAD wrote:Its all there mate, I have no idea what your agenda is, but you've won, well done but I can't take your anti English Poopie anymore. clap clap clap I'm done.

So you cannot answer then ?

Also talking about being anti English when I have not even mentioned your country....

Well that says more about you than anything.

We all know what your real motive behind this was. Take Griff for example, he has understood the issues and we can debate properly about it, you on the other hand cannot.

Just in case you feel up to it, I will ask you again. What point are you trying to make ?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:47 am

I would say substance abuse is a social problem in Wales, not a sport problem. At certain levels however, most play sport for social reasons. There are two maybe three substances in particular that I allude to and they are absolutely rife in our society. In fact it's so commonplace nowadays that it is seen as normal/acceptable. This is coming from somebody who lives here, and it's the same in each town or city I go to Smile. Another thing I can confirm is that I went across the river to Bristol and lived there for a little while, it's no different there.

Linking steroid abuse and Gatlandball has to be one of the stupidest things I've read. For me it seems very much a social problem however you're acting as if it's news that athletes have been caught abusing it. Newsflash for you TightHEAD, this has been going on since the 1960s when steroids were first invented. If the sceptical stats show that Wales have more players testing positive then I would guess that it means that England players are better at not getting caught. Wales are as good as South Africa at not getting caught Wink.

RE the recent Maesteg player who was banned did NOT have steroids in his system. He tested positive for another substance and it was one that I alluded to in this post.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:50 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Griff wrote: offence to valleys towns, but you can often spot a 'valley lad' as he's juiced up and busting from his polo shirt. 
 Griff, I am from a valleys town, and you to not have to apologise because what you are saying is 100% correct. 

The worrying thing about it is, these kids are open about what they do, taking steroids is not against the law after all. They will openly compare what they are taking, and what supplements they are on. I have two or three young twenty year old's working for me, and they are always talking about it, and to be fair to them, they look in good shape.

These boys do not play rugby either, they are too busy going down the gym in their spare time, and going out on the urine on the weekends. Steroid and supplement abuse is rife in the valleys. What we need is something done about the illegal selling of the stuff.

This was a few years ago, they all look the same now. The trend did make it's way down from the valleys though. LD your post here very much describes a societal subculture that is across the country. I would hazard a guess that these lads are ex rugby or football players, and don't go to university. In fact they might consider bodybuilding competitions in the near future?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 11:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Linking steroid abuse and Gatlandball has to be one of the stupidest things I've read.

mikey, it was plainly obvious what his motives were when saying that.Also I totally agree with you about the other drug abuses that go on in our society, I know people who cannot go on a night out without taking "extra incentives", then end up spending most of their night in the bogs.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 12:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:In fact they might consider bodybuilding competitions in the near future?

They might do mikey, or they could go down the route I accuse them of, models or rent boys. Laugh

I swear, they get more crap than they would if they were over weight. They are so hung up on their looks, hairstyles, figures, clothes. They are supposed to be carpet fitting, yet they come to work looking like Armani models. The roastings they get off me and some of the older boys is unreal. 

it's all in good fun though. I was ordering them some clobber for work the other day, and all the youngsters asked for small polo shirts, they are built like statues, they are bigger than me and I'm a large. Shocked

You can imagine the grief they get. Laugh

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Griff on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 12:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Griff wrote: offence to valleys towns, but you can often spot a 'valley lad' as he's juiced up and busting from his polo shirt. 
 Griff, I am from a valleys town, and you to not have to apologise because what you are saying is 100% correct. 

The worrying thing about it is, these kids are open about what they do, taking steroids is not against the law after all. They will openly compare what they are taking, and what supplements they are on. I have two or three young twenty year old's working for me, and they are always talking about it, and to be fair to them, they look in good shape.

These boys do not play rugby either, they are too busy going down the gym in their spare time, and going out on the urine on the weekends. Steroid and supplement abuse is rife in the valleys. What we need is something done about the illegal selling of the stuff.

I'd be careful of lumping supplements in with steroid abuse. Yes, some supplements can contain certain 'things' that are on the banned list. But ALL pro athletes use supplements of some sort. They have to. To get the protein and carb requirements from the food alone would be very difficult. Some rugby players need to consume over 8000 calories per day. Supplements are a normal everyday part of sports nutrition. Yes, the urban youth like to pump themselves full of protein shakes not realizing that the body can't take in any more than it needs so they're literately pis*ing away their money if they're not doing the training to require it. But supplements in general are not the problem we're talking about.

Just as an aside, it's such a minefield for athletes. If you're caught with something in your system then you're automatically branded as a dirty drugs cheat, no matter what the substance is. Proper hardcore anabolic steroids is one thing, but a lot of athletes are caught out by taking Lemsips, nasal sprays for colds, cough sweets, asthma inhalers, etc. And then they're lumped in with the likes of Ben Johnson. I remember the Munster hooker Frankie Sheehan being banned for taking the same inhaler as I do (ventolin for exercise induced asthma) as he had not declared being an asthmatic. 1 year ban I think. Even some over the counter supplements in supermarkets (such as maximuscle, etc) often have banned substances which are fine for the general public but not for the ultra-strict doping committees. It's tough being an athlete!

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 10:43 am

TightHEAD wrote:It is loosely linked because in a rugby mad country like Wales young influential people see what is required to make it to the top to earn big £'s, talent isn't always enough these days even at amateur level especially if bish bash bosh style is king (WarrenBall). You have to be big and the quickest way to get results for some is Steroids.

If this is true then surely each aspiring rugby player in Bath is on the sniff-sniff every weekend?

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 12:58 pm

Griff wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Griff wrote: offence to valleys towns, but you can often spot a 'valley lad' as he's juiced up and busting from his polo shirt. 
 Griff, I am from a valleys town, and you to not have to apologise because what you are saying is 100% correct. 

The worrying thing about it is, these kids are open about what they do, taking steroids is not against the law after all. They will openly compare what they are taking, and what supplements they are on. I have two or three young twenty year old's working for me, and they are always talking about it, and to be fair to them, they look in good shape.

These boys do not play rugby either, they are too busy going down the gym in their spare time, and going out on the urine on the weekends. Steroid and supplement abuse is rife in the valleys. What we need is something done about the illegal selling of the stuff.

I'd be careful of lumping supplements in with steroid abuse.  Yes, some supplements can contain certain 'things' that are on the banned list.  But ALL pro athletes use supplements of some sort.  They have to.  To get the protein and carb requirements from the food alone would be very difficult.  Some rugby players need to consume over 8000 calories per day.  Supplements are a normal everyday part of sports nutrition.  Yes, the urban youth like to pump themselves full of protein shakes not realizing that the body can't take in any more than it needs so they're literately pis*ing away their money if they're not doing the training to require it.  But supplements in general are not the problem we're talking about.

Just as an aside, it's such a minefield for athletes.  If you're caught with something in your system then you're automatically branded as a dirty drugs cheat, no matter what the substance is.  Proper hardcore anabolic steroids is one thing, but a lot of athletes are caught out by taking Lemsips, nasal sprays for colds, cough sweets, asthma inhalers, etc.  And then they're lumped in with the likes of Ben Johnson.  I remember the Munster hooker Frankie Sheehan being banned for taking the same inhaler as I do (ventolin for exercise induced asthma) as he had not declared being an asthmatic. 1 year ban I think.  Even some over the counter supplements in supermarkets (such as maximuscle, etc) often have banned substances which are fine for the general public but not for the ultra-strict doping committees.  It's tough being an athlete!
It is tough being an athlete.  However, athletes, teams, med staff, trainers, etc. are now all given a list of prohibited medicines and substances, sport specific and WADA.  A lot of it is chemical names, but usually includes the commercial names as well.  Players are safer getting the teams to procure approved supplements to have a better handle about whether they are within bounds or not.  Even then, some athletes need medical clearance for meds treating specific needs such as asthma meds.  But, frankly, this is not enough for some athletes who look for an even greater edge, or to get them to the right level.  

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:To claim rugby players are taking steroids only so they look better is head in the sand stuff.

There are more people taking steroids and NOT playing rugby in Wales. So yes, I would say it is a social problem, with kids on the town putting on tiny t-shirts to show off their guns, almost every one of them, so I would not say I am burying my head in the sand.
I agree and think this is a broad based situation.  Abuse has indeed spread from athletes who are now monitored to varying degrees to the general populace who want to look big, tough, or whaever.  For the general populace the WADA proscribed materials document list is like a shopping list.  The lines between 'supplements' and HGH, anabolic steroids, stimulants, and so on are blurring fast.  

As we all know, a lot of the supplements are not evaluated or regulated with the same rigour as medicines.  The supplement industry is a huge multi billion pound/dollar/Euro/etc. industry.  They fight more stringent regulation every day.  This is a problem.

It's silly to think this is a problem in one part of one country.  This is global, and a big issue.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Griff on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 2:45 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Griff wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Griff wrote: offence to valleys towns, but you can often spot a 'valley lad' as he's juiced up and busting from his polo shirt. 
 Griff, I am from a valleys town, and you to not have to apologise because what you are saying is 100% correct. 

The worrying thing about it is, these kids are open about what they do, taking steroids is not against the law after all. They will openly compare what they are taking, and what supplements they are on. I have two or three young twenty year old's working for me, and they are always talking about it, and to be fair to them, they look in good shape.

These boys do not play rugby either, they are too busy going down the gym in their spare time, and going out on the urine on the weekends. Steroid and supplement abuse is rife in the valleys. What we need is something done about the illegal selling of the stuff.

I'd be careful of lumping supplements in with steroid abuse.  Yes, some supplements can contain certain 'things' that are on the banned list.  But ALL pro athletes use supplements of some sort.  They have to.  To get the protein and carb requirements from the food alone would be very difficult.  Some rugby players need to consume over 8000 calories per day.  Supplements are a normal everyday part of sports nutrition.  Yes, the urban youth like to pump themselves full of protein shakes not realizing that the body can't take in any more than it needs so they're literately pis*ing away their money if they're not doing the training to require it.  But supplements in general are not the problem we're talking about.

Just as an aside, it's such a minefield for athletes.  If you're caught with something in your system then you're automatically branded as a dirty drugs cheat, no matter what the substance is.  Proper hardcore anabolic steroids is one thing, but a lot of athletes are caught out by taking Lemsips, nasal sprays for colds, cough sweets, asthma inhalers, etc.  And then they're lumped in with the likes of Ben Johnson.  I remember the Munster hooker Frankie Sheehan being banned for taking the same inhaler as I do (ventolin for exercise induced asthma) as he had not declared being an asthmatic. 1 year ban I think.  Even some over the counter supplements in supermarkets (such as maximuscle, etc) often have banned substances which are fine for the general public but not for the ultra-strict doping committees.  It's tough being an athlete!
It is tough being an athlete.  However, athletes, teams, med staff, trainers, etc. are now all given a list of prohibited medicines and substances, sport specific and WADA.  A lot of it is chemical names, but usually includes the commercial names as well.  Players are safer getting the teams to procure approved supplements to have a better handle about whether they are within bounds or not.  Even then, some athletes need medical clearance for meds treating specific needs such as asthma meds.  But, frankly, this is not enough for some athletes who look for an even greater edge, or to get them to the right level.  

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:To claim rugby players are taking steroids only so they look better is head in the sand stuff.

There are more people taking steroids and NOT playing rugby in Wales. So yes, I would say it is a social problem, with kids on the town putting on tiny t-shirts to show off their guns, almost every one of them, so I would not say I am burying my head in the sand.
I agree and think this is a broad based situation.  Abuse has indeed spread from athletes who are now monitored to varying degrees to the general populace who want to look big, tough, or whaever.  For the general populace the WADA proscribed materials document list is like a shopping list.  The lines between 'supplements' and HGH, anabolic steroids, stimulants, and so on are blurring fast.  

As we all know, a lot of the supplements are not evaluated or regulated with the same rigour as medicines.  The supplement industry is a huge multi billion pound/dollar/Euro/etc. industry.  They fight more stringent regulation every day.  This is a problem.

It's silly to think this is a problem in one part of one country.  This is global, and a big issue.


I agree with you there Doc, about the team's having control and being well informed. However, we're talking grass roots in Wales. While there are undoubtedly hardcore steroid abusers, there are also probably a lot of individuals with little team support, playing for division 7 outfits, who have been caught out through nothing more than ignorance to the supplements taken. It's not an accuse, but the lower down the leagues we go the less expertise and advice the players/teams will be getting, where nutrition, recovery, etc. is left up to the player.

I'm sure if I was drug tested I'd probably be banned as I've had a nasty chest infection and cold and have teak. Al sorts of things. But there is little dinstinction sport drug cheating - it all seems black and white. I'd be lumped in with the anabolic steroid mob through a simple mistake or oversight (that I am fully responsible for).

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Griff on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 2:50 pm

Just to add: at grassroots level I'm sure there have been cases where individuals, seeing their buddies buying the expensive supplements (let's say Maximuscle), deciding to buy some, seen the prices and have then gone for a slightly cheaper but just as legal (to sell) alternative (let's say 'My Protein') which doesn't come with the WADA approved certificate, is not intended for pro athletes and contains something on the banned list. It's very difficult. And I don't want to do a disservice to the grass roots players by suggesting they're all thickos. Clearly they won't all be. But at the same time there will be a lot of people who do not understand, or have not got access, to the WADA list and where/how to check their product.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 3:26 pm

Griff wrote:Just to add: at grassroots level I'm sure there have been cases where individuals, seeing their buddies buying the expensive supplements (let's say Maximuscle), deciding to buy some, seen the prices and have then gone for a slightly cheaper but just as legal (to sell) alternative (let's say 'My Protein') which doesn't come with the WADA approved certificate, is not intended for pro athletes and contains something on the banned list. It's very difficult. And I don't want to do a disservice to the grass roots players by suggesting they're all thickos. Clearly they won't all be. But at the same time there will be a lot of people who do not understand, or have not got access, to the WADA list and where/how to check their product.

Funny MyProtein is pretty much the only whey protein I've ever been able to tolerate, any of the posh brands just sent me straight to the toilet.

I've worked in housing, and all the dirty crew boys I know who carry out real deep cleanses in properties (think bodies,rats etc ) now tell me clearing needles from anabolic steroid abusers is now a huge percentage of their world, far in excess of incidence of drug needles. It's endemic in Wales.

That being said, given the pedestals the Rugby Mad Welsh Public place the national team on, for seven weeks of the year at least, it's daft to say there is no link between roids and rugby in the gen pop. Gatland has built a virtual team of genetic freaks to play his game, guys of particularly large stature for Wales. Aside from the likes of halfpenny and 'devastating X factor runner' Matthew Morgan (not my words, that's the view of a certain other dimunitive Welsh charlatan), our greatest sporting celebrities are all units, which must have an effect on impressionable young f7ckwits across Wales.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 7:32 pm

Griff wrote:Just to add: at grassroots level I'm sure there have been cases where individuals, seeing their buddies buying the expensive supplements (let's say Maximuscle), deciding to buy some, seen the prices and have then gone for a slightly cheaper but just as legal (to sell) alternative (let's say 'My Protein') which doesn't come with the WADA approved certificate, is not intended for pro athletes and contains something on the banned list. It's very difficult. And I don't want to do a disservice to the grass roots players by suggesting they're all thickos. Clearly they won't all be. But at the same time there will be a lot of people who do not understand, or have not got access, to the WADA list and where/how to check their product.
I was really talking about the top level.  Below that, I agree, it is a virtual free-for-all.  Limited to no valuable information for the players and sparse enforcement.  I can understand the role models in Wales might be Rugby players, but around the rest of UK, and the world really, it is not the case.  Yet we see high levels of supplement use and real levels of abuse of anabolic steroids, HGH, amphetamines, and the like.  This is why I am not sure it is a uniquely Welsh problem.  Though to be fair, it is possible it is more extreme in the Principality, I don't know.  Here in America we see this with high school and uni level athletics, and occasional with some high profile professionals.  Even so, there is a lot of testing.  Not so common for people to abuse simply to look buff. As I said, for some people the WADA Proscribed List is like a shopping list.

>>> To see the WADA Proscribed List Click Here

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:57 pm

More interesting news on the subject:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/drugsinsport/12160508/Doping-culture-that-is-threatening-to-ruin-British-amateur-sport-could-be-worse-than-anyone-realises.html

It looks as though it is rife everywhere, although rugby does not come close to cycling.

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Re: Interesting, Welsh rugby does not have its own drugs problem - the issue lies in the entire country's steroid addiction

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