Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

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Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by George Carlin on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 6:55 am

                                             
Union Sportive Oyonnax Rugby v Ulster Rugby
Sunday 10 January 2016
KO 14:00
Stade Charles Mathon, Oyonnax

Live on beIN Sports / Sky Sports

Referee Luke Pearce (England)
Touch Judge 1 Paul Dix (England)
Touch Judge 2 Andrew Small (England)
Fourth Official Thomas Chereque (France)
TMO Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor Clayton Thomas (Wales)
Citing Commissioner Ray Wilton (Wales)

A. Head to Head

#These teams are meeting for the first time.

B. Recent European Form

Oyonnax Rugby

19/12/15: Saracens 55 - 13 Oyonnax
13/12/15: Oyonnax 10 - 45 Saracens
21/11/15: Toulouse 24 - 18 Oyonnax

Ulster Rugby

20/12/15: Toulouse 23 - 25 Ulster
11/12/15: Ulster 38 - 0 Toulouse
20/11/15: Ulster 9 - 27 Saracens

C. Teams

Oyonnax Rugby


(15-9) Q Etienne, D Codjo, A Taufa, E Sheridan, U Tawalo, N Robinson, J Blanc
(1-8) L Delboulbès, J Maurouard, M Clerc, G Robson, F Metz, P Gunther, M Fa'asavalu, P Wannenburg

Replacements (16-23)16 Bordes, S Wright, H Pungea, L Power, V Maafu, A Aziza, R Clegg, D Ikpefan

Ulster Rugby


(15-9): C Gilroy; S Arnold, L Marshall, S McCloskey, R Scholes; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): K McCall, R Best (capt), R Lutton; L Stevenson, F van der Merwe; R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, B Ross, N Williams, Sean Reidy, R Pienaar, P Jackson, L Ludik.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 9:11 am

Let the excitement begin Smile

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Don Alfonso on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 10:02 am

Seriously concerned about this one if we're resting everyone we appear to be. I HUMP Isgglady, and will be rusty as well. Sam Arnold is a promising youngster who hasn't let us down , but green, and who is going to partner him? I wonder if Kiss hasn't been a bit naive - provincial man-management is a Rubix cube at thebest Iofttimes, for the most experienced coaches.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Notch on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 10:10 am

Sam Arnold- I wouldn't say he hasn't let us down. I mean, that sounds way harsher than I want it to sound, but he really hasn't shown he's ready for this level of rugby in his appearances to date. I would be very concerned if we see him start because I honestly believe he's out of his depth in a game like this. Similarly Marshall and Humphreys at half-back does not fill you with confidence.

I really do think this is a screw-up of monumental proportions, and yeah it is partially down to the Ireland training camp interfering with the build-up, but we need 5 points in this game. 4 points might not be enough. 0 or 1 points is definitely not enough.

We really should have rested players for the Munster game. In retrospect, we couldn't have played any worse and several players looked like they really needed the break. Now we're going into to one of the most important games of our season with a second-choice team, which is madness.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 10:26 am

Exactly Notch and it's more than a little worrying. I know Kiss may have plenty to learn about the finer details of club management but the lack of foresight shown in regards to this set of fixtures amazes me. That being said we should be able to beat an Oyonnax who have no interest in Europe right now but whether we can gather the bonus point is a different beast altogether.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by rodders on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 10:58 am

I think we'd have expected to win that Munster game and in terms of securing a top 6 or top 4 finish it was a very important game so to have fielded a weakened team and lost would be unthinkable at home.

The players wouldn't have been physically tired, all the physiological markers would have been taken into consideration when picking the side. The screw up was too many players didn't perform and we lost a really winnable game, not the selection.

The issue is given our sluggish start to the season in both competitions these are all must win games, and with the injuries we don't have much slack to rest players so the ones that are picked need to front up.

Lets be honest we aren't going to win the champions cup and automatically qualify for next year, so we can't afford to be slipping down the pro12 table - especially if we do progress in Europe.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:41 pm

rodders wrote:I think we'd have expected to win that Munster game and in terms of securing a top 6 or top 4 finish it was a very important game so to have fielded a weakened team and lost would be unthinkable at home.

The players wouldn't have been physically tired, all the physiological markers would have been taken into consideration when picking the side. The screw up was too many players didn't perform and we lost a really winnable game, not the selection.

The issue is given our sluggish start to the season in both competitions these are all must win games, and with the injuries we don't have much slack to rest players so the ones that are picked need to front up.

Lets be honest we aren't going to win the champions cup and automatically qualify for next year, so we can't afford to be slipping down the pro12 table - especially if we do progress in Europe.

They are all must win games but Ulster are very unlikely to win them all. Maybe Kiss is being pragmatic? If Ulster don't get a home quarter they aren't going to progress in Europe anyway so maybe Ulster should do the decent thing and leave this competition to the sides who can afford to be in it?
Ulster haven't been 'Champions' for a decade, so winning the Pro12 should be the first goal and managing the players with that in mind is maybe the most realistic thing to do.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 2:06 pm

The likes of McCall, Best and O'Connor have been rested over the last two games so could still go in with a strong-ish team especially if the forwards can do their bit. With P.Marshall he can get us playing at a high tempo that Oyonnax seem to struggle with as the game goes on.

The next three weeks will ultimately decide if it was poor management or a master stroke

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 3:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:The likes of McCall, Best and O'Connor have been rested over the last two games so could still go in with a strong-ish team especially if the forwards can do their bit. With P.Marshall he can get us playing at a high tempo that Oyonnax seem to struggle with as the game goes on.

The next three weeks will ultimately decide if it was poor management or a master stroke

Stop filling us with optimism Marty Smile

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by rodders on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 3:33 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
rodders wrote:I think we'd have expected to win that Munster game and in terms of securing a top 6 or top 4 finish it was a very important game so to have fielded a weakened team and lost would be unthinkable at home.

The players wouldn't have been physically tired, all the physiological markers would have been taken into consideration when picking the side. The screw up was too many players didn't perform and we lost a really winnable game, not the selection.

The issue is given our sluggish start to the season in both competitions these are all must win games, and with the injuries we don't have much slack to rest players so the ones that are picked need to front up.

Lets be honest we aren't going to win the champions cup and automatically qualify for next year, so we can't afford to be slipping down the pro12 table - especially if we do progress in Europe.

They are all must win games but Ulster are very unlikely to win them all. Maybe Kiss is being pragmatic? If Ulster don't get a home quarter they aren't going to progress in Europe anyway so maybe Ulster should do the decent thing and leave this competition to the sides who can afford to be in it?
Ulster haven't been 'Champions' for a decade, so winning the Pro12 should be the first goal and managing the players with that in mind is maybe the most realistic thing to do.

Is that different to what I said? If so it fits with what I was thinking at least.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Thu 07 Jan 2016, 3:43 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The likes of McCall, Best and O'Connor have been rested over the last two games so could still go in with a strong-ish team especially if the forwards can do their bit. With P.Marshall he can get us playing at a high tempo that Oyonnax seem to struggle with as the game goes on.

The next three weeks will ultimately decide if it was poor management or a master stroke

Stop filling us with optimism Marty Smile

Someones got to be optimistic, you lot need to try that New Year New Me stuff thumbsup

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 08 Jan 2016, 12:26 pm

(15-9): C Gilroy; S Arnold, L Marshall, S McCloskey, R Scholes; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): K McCall, R Best (capt), R Lutton; L Stevenson, F van der Merwe; R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson.
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, B Ross, N Williams, Sean Reidy, R Pienaar, P Jackson, L Ludik.

It ok to be optimistic now Pete?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Notch on Fri 08 Jan 2016, 12:37 pm

Teams up; Craig Gilroy returns at fullback. Sam Arnold starts on the wing, where he's less integral but I still worry he'll be a liability. Andrew Trimble is rested completely; thats probably good news for his Ireland chances. Scholes completes the back three. McCloskey and Marshall continue in the centres. Louis Ludik will cover the back five from the bench.

Paul Marshall and Ian Humphreys come in for Pienaar and Jackson who are on the bench,

Up front, Wiehahn Herbst and Alan O'Connor are injured. McCall, Best and Lutton make up the front row. Stevenson and Van Der Merwe continue behind them, and in the back row the only change is Williams swapping places with Wilson on the bench. Black, Herring, Ross and Reidy are the other replacements.

All in all, its a much weakened side; missing Herbst, Henderson, Tuohy, O'Connor, Olding, Cave, Trimble, Bowe and Payne completely and with Williams, Pienaar, Jackson and Ludik on the bench- it results in squad players like Arnold and Stevenson being in there who I worry about. Even Roger Wilson has slipped into that category, being a guy whose name on the team sheet worries you.

We're only looking at five positions where we are picking our strongest players and they're all in the pack.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 08 Jan 2016, 2:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:(15-9): C Gilroy; S Arnold, L Marshall, S McCloskey, R Scholes; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): K McCall, R Best (capt), R Lutton; L Stevenson, F van der Merwe; R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson.
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, B Ross, N Williams, Sean Reidy, R Pienaar, P Jackson, L Ludik.

It ok to be optimistic now Pete?

A little Marty, maybe just a pinch Smile

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 08 Jan 2016, 2:25 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:(15-9): C Gilroy; S Arnold, L Marshall, S McCloskey, R Scholes; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): K McCall, R Best (capt), R Lutton; L Stevenson, F van der Merwe; R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson.
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, B Ross, N Williams, Sean Reidy, R Pienaar, P Jackson, L Ludik.

It ok to be optimistic now Pete?

A little Marty, maybe just a pinch Smile

Hopefully the French aren't too physical and leave a few standing for Sarries next week

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 12:54 pm

Good luck to Ulster today. All said and done, its not an overly week team they are fielding so i expect a decent Ulster win.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:07 pm

That was some scrum from Oyonnax.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:08 pm

Very worrying signs for Ulster as Oyonnax score the try after a very nice driving maul.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:15 pm

Ulster's defence need to tighten up here, that's now 3 clean breaks.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by wrfc1980 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:17 pm

Looks like the last Irish club is facing an early exit.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:22 pm

Early days yet wrfc but its not looking good.

A large amount of handling error's from Oyonnax helping Ulster.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by wrfc1980 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:28 pm

Unless ulster can sort out the set price they are gone

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:32 pm

And their defence...

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by toml on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:33 pm

Humphreys isn't even AIL level

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:34 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:Looks like the last Irish club is facing an early exit.

Well, Connacht still have to play.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:36 pm

Is it just me or is the Oyonnax LH continually infringing the Pearce either isnt giving it or giving it against Ulster?

He just penalised Lutton for turning in yet it seemed to be Oyonnax doing it

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:40 pm

This is difficult to watch.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:41 pm

What was that from Marshall? picard

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Notch on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:43 pm

Absolutely embarrassing for Ulster to come here and 'rest players'. We all said it. The coaches have to carry the can for it.

Smacks of arrogance, tbh. We had weeks to plan to peak for this game so the message they sent out was we don't need to- well Oyonnax heard that loud and clear.


Last edited by Notch on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:44 pm

Embarrassing. People can moan about Schmidt and attacking rugby all they want, the attacking intent in the Irish provinces is absolutely dreadful and totally amateur.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:44 pm

This is almost as bad as watching Munster lose yesterday.

Ulster must bring on Ruan and Paddy for the 2nd half.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by toml on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:45 pm

OMFG, Ulster need to take a long hard look at themselves

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by marty2086 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:45 pm

Notch wrote:Absolutely embarrassing for Ulster to come here and 'rest players'. We all said it. The coaches have to carry the can for it.

Notch this team should be good enough to do the job, they just aren't doing it

Players needed to be rested and no time is a good time to do it

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:45 pm

More dismal stuff from the Irish provinces. They should be in the Challenge Cup with this poor level of rugby.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:46 pm

Pathetic. We fully deserve to exit the franglo cup but this is a dreadful display by a seemingly uninterested Ulster.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by profitius on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:48 pm

Well done Les Kiss. This is what eventually happens when you flog players.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:49 pm

I am not convinced that Ulster are uninterested Pete, they are just being beaten by a team playing better rugby.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by scrummy on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:49 pm

Get Paddy on now.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Notch on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:50 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Notch wrote:Absolutely embarrassing for Ulster to come here and 'rest players'. We all said it. The coaches have to carry the can for it.

Notch this team should be good enough to do the job, they just aren't doing it

Players needed to be rested and no time is a good time to do it

No- you don't come to France and take teams for granted in a must-win European game. We knew there were a lot of passengers in this team before kick off. This is a massive game for our season, win this and it's odds on for a quarter-final. And we know we're against a good team. So we have our best back rested completely, and our best forward and halfbacks on the bench. Thats not good enough because we know if they come they will come hard. We knew that coming here and we took it for granted.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:51 pm

Tyrone Howe having to channel Alan Quinlan's assessment of Munster in trying to describe how bad Ulster are.

"Second best in every department" doesn't even come close.


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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 1:53 pm

Give a bit of credit to Oyonnax, they have played very well so far. There is a reason why Ulster are 2nd best in every department, they are being pressured and out played.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Notch on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:00 pm

They have, they've completely smashed our pack off the park. We can't win a single collision.

If we came as strong as we could and that happened, disappointing- thats rugby. To come here cocky and at half strength, already targeting games beyond this is infuriating. For a start we've written their team talk. Secondly, this is the essential game in this run of game over Christmas and January- and this is the one we rest players for?

It's just so disrespectful to our opponents and fair play to them, because we love to see our rivals get tripped up when they show that kind of arrogance.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:01 pm

Good move to bring on Paddy and Ruan, hopefully they can steady the ship and get Ulster home.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:02 pm

Yes Billy, we have been outplayed by the better team and should have expected this. There is a price for sending a 2nd team to France and we're paying it.
Now with the bench on we should do something better but it's surely too much to do.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:04 pm

Great try that, may not be too much to do yet. Well and truly back in the game.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:08 pm

Ulster look to have woken up somewhat. They need another score now to keep the pressure on.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:22 pm

How many chances are Ulster going to create and fluff?

Oyonnax are there to be beaten but Ulster's attack is not gelling as it should.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

Jackson is not such a bad kicker from the tee is he Cool

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:33 pm

Ulster looking a bit better now.

Another try to get the bonus point.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

Post by eirebilly on Sun 10 Jan 2016, 2:35 pm

This would be some turnaround if Ulster win this with a TBP

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Oyonnax v Ulster, 10 January

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