European Tour 2016 - Dubai

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European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by sirbenson on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 11:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Selected RD 1 Tee Times
1 07:40 Felipe AGUILAR Raphaël JACQUELIN
1 07:50 Renato PARATORE Mikko ILONEN
1 08:00 Romain WATTEL Jaco VAN ZYL
1 08:10 Matthew SOUTHGATE Kiradech APHIBARNRAT
1 08:20 Ricardo GOUVEIA Padraig HARRINGTON
1 08:30 George COETZEE Pablo LARRAZÁBAL
1 08:40 Marcus FRASER Brandon STONE
1 08:50 Victor DUBUISSON David LIPSKY
1 09:00 Jorge CAMPILLO Julien QUESNE
1 09:10 Tommy FLEETWOOD Nacho ELVIRA
1 09:25 Joakim LAGERGREN Soomin LEE
1 09:35 Nicolas COLSAERTS Alejandro CAÑIZARES
1 09:45 Richard STERNE Byeong Hun AN
1 09:55 Charl SCHWARTZEL Grégory BOURDY
1 10:05 Rikard KARLBERG Alexander LEVY
1 10:15 Shane LOWRY David HORSEY
1 10:25 Bradley DREDGE Matthew FITZPATRICK
1 10:35 Richard BLAND Scott HEND
1 10:45 Francesco MOLINARI Andrew JOHNSTON
1 10:55 Thomas PIETERS Søren KJELDSEN
1 11:10 Sergio GARCIA Haotong LI
1 11:20 Thongchai JAIDEE Ross FISHER
1 11:30 Joost LUITEN Jeunghun WANG
1 11:40 Martin KAYMER Andy SULLIVAN
1 11:50 Lee WESTWOOD Bernd WIESBERGER
1 12:00 Thorbjørn OLESEN Chris WOOD
1 12:10 Louis OOSTHUIZEN Rafa CABRERA BELLO
1 12:20 Branden GRACE Tyrrell HATTON
1 12:30 Rory MCILROY Alex NOREN
1 12:40 Danny WILLETT Henrik STENSON


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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 22 Nov 2016, 7:10 pm

They just chose members from Sheffield Parks & Rec.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by pedro on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 10:07 am

kwinigolfer wrote:They just chose members from Sheffield Parks & Rec.
Unfortunately with an emphasis on 'Rec.'

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by McLaren on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 10:42 am

Something I wasn't aware of is that Matty Fitz, according to a bbc article, isn't signed up to an equipment manufacturer and can put whatever he wants in the bag. How much of an advantage do you think this is for players? (Although I suspect Matty gets a big pay check from UA, and might possibly have to use their clubs should they ever get round to making any. Which is doubtful given even nike can't be arsed)

Rory is now also in this position and has already ditched the nike putter and woods, so assuming Rory remains unsigned equipment wise can we expect yo see Rory's stroke average drop a little this season due to having more suitable clubs?
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 10:51 am

Interesting Mac, I never knew he didn't have a club maker.

It surprises me that more don't do this. They make so much money that they don't really need the extra money from a club endorsement.


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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by pedro on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 11:08 am

It would probably be considered child labour if he was signed up to somebody.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 11:11 am

He's only a year younger than the Reverend Gordon Spieth.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by McLaren on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 1:43 pm

Just wondering if Matty would also have been a better pick for the WC? Sulli isn't exactly on form at the moment.
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 1:44 pm

Didn't learn anything from the Ryder Cup then regarding form Mac?

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by McLaren on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 1:51 pm

Not sure I get your point. What we did learn is that Sulli is struggling at the moment.
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 1:58 pm

Who cares Mac, again, it's a different format to what you are judging their form on.

It's also a tin pot tournament that no one really cares about, so it's probably more about picking a mate to play with rather than actually wanting to win the tournament with any real ambition.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by EmmDee57 on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 2:09 pm

super_realist wrote:Who cares Mac, again, it's a different format to what you are judging their form on.

It's also a tin pot tournament that no one really cares about, so it's probably more about picking a mate to play with rather than actually wanting to win the tournament with any real ambition.

Just what Knox has done ..........

"“I definitely didn’t pick him because he’s my best friend,” said Knox. “Obviously he is, but he has earned his right to be here.

“He’s had an unbelievable year. He’s earned his way onto the European Tour through the Challenge Tour, he won a tournament.


“I don’t really care what other people think”

“Other than myself and probably Colin Montgomerie, he’s the only other Scot to have won a tournament, which is massive."

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

As said earlier, Stewart also has earned the most owgr points, prior to Dubai anyway, of any Europe-based Scot this year, only Knox & Laird ahead of him.

Mac,
Sulli has finished 2nd in Portugal, 3rd at Nedbank. Not good enough for you, clearly, but not exactly "struggling".

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by pedro on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 3:05 pm

So why didn't he pick Monty?

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by McLaren on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 4:52 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Sulli has finished 2nd in Portugal, 3rd at Nedbank. Not good enough for you, clearly, but not exactly "struggling".

Didn't know that, so don't assume it "isn't good enough" for me.  In general I would advise assuming I know f*** all about the results of most pro golfers.
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 4:57 pm

Mac,
I already do assume that - which makes it all the more puzzling that you post comments on something you admit you know F All about.


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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by McLaren on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 4:58 pm

Hell, I was only kidding. Thanks. Sad
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by pedro on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 5:55 pm

Judging from his posts on here, Knox should've picked super_realist: an always in-form player holding the key to any golf format. The victory would've been a shoe-in for Scotland.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Wed 23 Nov 2016, 6:10 pm

Certainly not always in form pedro, but playing well right now.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 8:36 am

Might well have done better than Scotland's hilariously bad opening 78.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by MontysMerkin on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

pedro wrote:So why didn't he pick Monty?
I've got a winter stableford that weekend.
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by Roller_Coaster on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:27 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
pedro wrote:So why didn't he pick Monty?
I've got a winter stableford that weekend.
laughing

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by Roller_Coaster on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:36 pm

McLaren wrote:Something I wasn't aware of is that Matty Fitz, according to a bbc article, isn't signed up to an equipment manufacturer and can put whatever he wants in the bag.  How much of an advantage do you think this is for players?  (Although I suspect Matty gets a big pay check from UA, and might possibly have to use their clubs should they ever get round to making any. Which is doubtful given even nike can't be arsed)

Rory is now also in this position and has already ditched the nike putter and woods, so assuming Rory remains unsigned equipment wise can we expect yo see Rory's stroke average drop a little this season due to having more suitable clubs?

I saw that, makes sense to me. Although I guess for many it's a guaranteed income in a proverbially cut throat business and may be a relatively long deal signed before they achieve(d) financial security. Surprised that TW didn't ditch Nike but then I guess the OEMs reassess the value of endorsements and dangle an amount that is too good even for the top guys to resist. Was always surprised TW ditched the ping gripped scotty he was (probably) the best putter in the world with for a Nike that seemed to miss more.

Wonder if Rory (being a top guy now) will stick without equipment endorsement and, if so, would that start more of a trend away from club sponsorships. I guess he can still amble up to the TM truck and they'll happily tweak whatever he wants on the driver despite not having a contract before he meanders to the Titleist truck for a putter jiggle?


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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:51 pm

Is anyone here a Full Kit W****r when it comes to clubs? I've got a fair assortment of manufacturers in my bag.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by Roller_Coaster on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:00 pm

D/3W Callaway
hybrid Adams
Irons 4 - PW Cleveland
Gap - Titleist AP2
Wedges Vokeys
Putter Scotty

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by McLaren on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:49 pm

No, but I might think about getting the current TM M1 or M2 when the new ones come out (To get the "old ones" cheaper). Which would mean TM irons and Driver.

I do tend to wear full nike apparel however. censored
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by pedro on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 8:09 pm

Knox vindicating himself after the RC snub. Not.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by pedro on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 8:12 pm

McLaren wrote:

I do tend to wear full nike apparel however. censored
Always knew you were a Tiger-lover. I even bet you play with a swoosh on...

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 12:34 pm

In light of Wood passing over Westwood.... I thought I'd go through all the teams and see who picked who.  I don't think the OWGR is a perfect system for picking parnters, but just for reference here is the OWGR "pecking order" for the various options on each team.  And to be clear, I don't know everyone who was or wasn't willing to play the World Cup... so when I say "passed over" in the notes below... it could be a case of players declining to play, injury or something else.

Also keep in mind the #1 for each team was determined by the OWGR rankings on August 1, and their initial partner choices were due in by August 11. So the rankings used below for each players in ( ) were the rankings after the conclusion of the PGA Championship. (Jul 31).  

Australia - Jason Day(1) was initial #1 Aussie and chose #2 ranked Aussie Adam Scott(8). Day WD'd and Scott chose the next highest ranked Aussie in Leishman(48).
Austria - Wiesberger(58) was the #1 Austrian and skipped over Trappel (848), Goger (997), Neumayer (1000+) to choose Wiegele (1000+)
Belgium - Pieters(65) was #1 Belgian and chose #2 Begian Colsaerts(123)
Canada - Hearn(136) was #1 Canadian DeLaet(145) was next but declined and Hadwin(184) was next up and got the nod
China - Wu Ashun(137) was China #1 and chose #2 Li Haotong(150)
Chinese Taipei - C.T. Pan(210) was #1 from Taipei, his partner Chan Shi-Chang was #3 (375). Lin Wen-Tang was #2 (233)
Denmark - Kjeldsen(43) was #1 Dane and chose #2  Olesen(69)
England - Willett(9) was #1 Englishman and skipped over Casey(29), Rose(12), Wood(25) and Sullivan(36) to get to Westwood(42). When Willet WD'd, Wood took Sullivan over Westwood who was next in line at that time.
France - Dubuisson(84) was #1 Frenchman and passed over Bourdy(106), Quesne(128), Levy(155), Wattell(165), Jacquelin(212), Sordet(173) & Hebert(190) and maybe more to get to Langasque (288).
Germany - Martin Kaymer(49) passed so it went to 2nd highest ranked Cejka(126), who passed over Knappe(262), Ritthammer(246), Kiefer(202) & Siem(240) and maybe more to get to Jaeger(397)
India - Lahiri(68) was India #1 and I'm not sure why he declined. Chawrasia was #2 (221), and he went with Chikkarangappa(408) instead of Kumar(404) or Gangjee(422)
Ireland - McIlroy(4) passed leaving #2 Shane Lowry(31) who picked next in line GMAC(75)
Italy - Franny(55) was #1 Italian and skipped over Nino Bertasio (308) to choose Matteo (344)
Japan - Matsuyama(18) was #1, and passed over at least 6 Japanese, Ikeda(92), Tanihara(70), Katayama(120), Miyazato(141), Fujimoto(142), Imahira(174) to get to Ishikawa at #186
Korea - Byeong Hun An(33) was #1 and went with #2 K.T. Kim(47)
Malaysia - Danny Chia(238) was #1 and passed over #331 Gavin Green to get to #428 Fung
Netherlands - Luiten(66) was #1 from the Nederlands, and skipped over Van der Vaart (454) & Huizing (509) to get to Darius Van Driel (534)
New Zealand - Danny Lee(44) was #1 and went with #2 Ryan Fox(152)
Philippines - Miguel Tabuena(140) was #1 and went with #2 Angelo Que(342)
Portugal - Gouvina(127) was #1 from Portugal and went with #2 Lima(398)
Scotland - Knox was #1 Scot and passed over Laird(134), Ramsay(148), Warren(192), Gallacher(328) & Drysdale(353) to get to Duncan Stewart(430)
South Africa - Grace(10), Oosthuizen(16) and Schwartzel(23) passed and Van Zyl(71) skipped over Brandon Stone (98) to go with Coetzee(119)
Spain - Garcia(11) was #1 Spainard but passed to Rafa(28) who went with the next highest ranked Rahm(143)
Sweden - Stenson(5) was #1 Swede but passed to Noren(50) who took next in line Lingmerth(51)
United States - Dustin Johnson(2), Spieth(3), Bubba(6) declined, leaving Fowler(7) with the pick. He passed over Reed(14) & Mickelson(13) to get to Walker(15)
Thailand - Jaidee(39) was #1 and went with #2 Aphibarnrat (59)
Venezuela - Jhonattan Vegas(81) was #1 Venezuelan and had only two other choices in the top-1000 in Murillo(846) and Velazquez(917), so he went with his brother Julio outside the top-1000 (not sure of his ranking at the time)
Wales - Donaldson(79) was #1 Welshman but declined to Dredge(100) who passed over Rhys Davies(469), & Oliver Farr(763) to get to Stuart Manley(788)

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by MontysMerkin on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:03 pm

Shame I'm not Austrian, may have had a chance of a knock....
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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by GPB on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 3:37 pm

Robo: Thanks for doing the research, however, Your wording kind of implies that if a player didn't pick the next highest player in rankings, those players were "snubbed" by the higher ranked player.

While that could be the case in some (many?) instances, it is very possible that the next higher ranked players just said "Thanks, but no thanks".

BTW, Laird and Duncan Stewart were college teammates at Jacksonville

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 3:48 pm

GPB wrote:Robo:  Thanks for doing the research, however, Your wording kind of implies that if a player didn't pick the next highest player in rankings, those players were "snubbed" by the higher ranked player.

While that could be the case in some (many?) instances, it is very possible that the next higher ranked players just said "Thanks, but no thanks".

BTW, Laird and Duncan Stewart were college teammates at Jacksonville
Sorry... I tried to be clear on that very point when I said... "And to be clear, I don't know everyone who was or wasn't willing to play the World Cup... so when I say "passed over" in the notes below... it could be a case of players declining to play, injury or something else."

And I think maybe you meant "Knox" and Stewart were college teammates at Jacksonville. Laird went to Colorado State.


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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by GPB on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 3:50 pm

I picked the wrong week to not read the entire post.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 3:51 pm

GPB wrote:I picked the wrong week to not read the entire post.
LOL... we all do that from time to time... :-)

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by Roller_Coaster on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 3:53 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:I picked the wrong week to not read the entire post.
LOL... we all do that from time to time... :-)

Where's Mac? Whistle

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 4:03 pm

And by the way... my only thought on players picking their own teammates in the World Cup is I would hope to see most do so with the intent of giving themselves the best possible chance of winning and thus representing their country well.  

From the list above, I feel most of them do/did that.... but I question a few.  But I don't really question the England deal.  It appears as though Casey and Rose weren't available and at the time I can't really fault Willett for going with Westwood over Wood and Sullivan. Wood was still questionable RE his injury recovery, and there really wasn't anything about Sullivan that made him a "must pick" over a much more experienced team format player in Westwood IMO.  

So even though I thought the whole situation was unfortunate (and maybe calls for a rule that from maybe 4-6 weeks out the original pick stands) I really can't fault Wood for passing on Westy to go with Sullivan either.  IMO it WAS a slap in Westwood's face, but I also think the Sullivan pick that gave them a better chance this week, rather it works out or not.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 4:07 pm

True Robo, I know Austria isn't a big golfing country, but to pick someone ranked in the 1000's is picking someone who isn't actually very good.
A friend of mine is ranked somewhere in the 1000's, and whilst he's good compared to a club golfer he's not of a standard even for a tinpot event like the World Cup.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 4:21 pm

super_realist wrote:True Robo, I know Austria isn't a big golfing country, but to pick someone ranked in the 1000's is picking someone who isn't actually very good.
A friend of mine is ranked somewhere in the 1000's, and whilst he's good compared to a club golfer he's not of a standard even for a tinpot event like the World Cup.
Yeah... I think once you get to #800+ in the ranking... it didn't really matter who Wiesberger picked for Austria or Jhonattan Vegas picked for Venezuela.

The one I'd question most is Knox going with his old college teammate over Laird, Ramsay and Warren... assuming any of the 3 were available.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 4:27 pm

I'm not saying I've got a problem with it, it's part of the rules they can pick who they like.

If it was a tournament that was any more than a junket, then it would be bad form, but it's the European Tour equivalent of a Wednesday Afternoon scramble.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 4:44 pm

super_realist wrote:I'm not saying I've got a problem with it, it's part of the rules they can pick who they like.

If it was a tournament that was any more than a junket, then it would be bad form, but it's the European Tour equivalent of a Wednesday Afternoon scramble.
not quite sure I'd go that far...$8 million US prize fund including $1.3 million US for each of the winning team  is plenty enough to get the full attention of anyone there.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by super_realist on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 4:57 pm

Doesn't capture the imagination though really does it? I mean, so many players have just not bothered turning up.

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

Post by robopz on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 5:28 pm

super_realist wrote:Doesn't capture the imagination though really does it? I mean, so many players have just not bothered turning up.
IMO that's one of the problems in golf. So much freeking emphasis is put on the majors now, it works to the detriment of everything else. IMO this is a really nice and interesting event, but I know I'm in the minority saying that. And when you have the cream of the cream mostly sitting it out... who can blame people for not caring.

But... From the sounds of it this event is playing really well in places like Japan, China, most of Asia and even some Euro countries that do have their top players participating... So maybe it's not all about us spoiled and jaded European and American fans who worry so much about who's not there instead of who is.

-------

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Re: European Tour 2016 - Dubai

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