South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

First topic message reminder :

The pivotal 3rd Test starts in two days time. England are expected to be unchanged. Dale Steyn is out injured for SA and looks doubtful for the rest of the series, though Kyle Abbott is fit and will come into the frame for selection. Another possible change is someone else to open in the place of Van Zyl

alfie wrote:

dummy_half wrote:And 313 all out - probably about par, but SA will definitely be happy with the start and end of their innings, England with what happened in the middle spell.
First two wickets added 117, last 3 added 88 very useful runs. The five in between falling for 108 was the problem.

A new record for SA - the lowest Test innings in which every player has reached double figures. Narrowly missed the record for the highest score for a team where no-one has reached 50. Generally a difficult innings to call whether it was good, bad or indifferent from the SA point of view.

Indeed very hard to assess that innings !  Great start , everyone getting double figures , pitch appears conducive to stroke making ...which all suggests 313 is something of an underachievement.  But then the bounce and movement available to the bowlers , the recent average scores for the ground , and the fact that no one passed fifty tends to make it look like it may be a bit over par...

I reckon it is a good enough first innings score for the conditions. If they bowl well it is probably enough to maintain the advantage of having won the toss. So they won't be unhappy : runs on the board , eh ?

But whether it is a matchwinning score or not is rather down to England's batting performance and how the pitch and weather behave over the later days of the match.
In keeping with the well matched nature of this interesting series.

Two good posts there, guys.

Whether a match winning score or not, a lot also resting on South Africa's largely inexperienced attack. Currently those bowlers are doing more than fine but they will be keen to have both Compton and Root back in the hutch before tea.

Hi guildford ...agree on Stokes having done well with the ball . He will always bowl some loose stuff but I think he has improved quite a lot and is a very handy fourth seamer now , even if the figures aren't anything special yet.

Re the running on the pitch thing : I guess the bowler does rather get a free second chance ; but at the same time he has copped a rather harsh sanction for a minuscule infringement in the first place (seems to depend so much on which umpire is watching !) - the fact that it only lasted one ball is incidental. This case seems unusual in that captain and bowler seem to have been taken by surprise ? To carry forward warnings would be a little too much , I think.
OK , I am a bowler , so bound to be sympathetic . But I do think this particular rule can be overused by fussy umpires at times : wonder if Hawkeye has a pitch map of Jimmy's footfalls ?

Cook is having a pretty torrid series with the bat

Alfie - I suppose an important consideration is whether running on the pitch is just unlucky, stupidly reckless or a mix of gamesmanship and cheating.

Nearly always very hard to tell and I'm sure some of us will have different views depending on what team the bowler is playing for!

As you suggest, sensible umpiring with an early quiet word should be able to stop most issues arising.

I still have a bad feeling about this. England always seem to struggle on these mind of wickets i.e. the kind of pitch where one side or the other doesn't even bother with a spinner. They are quite alien conditions really, if we make above 250 I will be pleasantly surprised

Olly wrote:Cook is having a pretty torrid series with the bat

You mean the guy I tipped to be England's leading run scorer.

Compton doing that thing where he refuses to score runs again

Olly wrote:Compton doing that thing where he refuses to score runs again

Olly - you and others leave Compton alone. He's already got half as many Test sixes as Bradman!

I think we can only really judge Compton at the end of his innings. A 50 ball 4 and we can say that was absolute rubbish. A 200 ball 50 setting a platform for others to come in and play against tired bowlers - not so bad given it was 2 down early for the millionth time in the last couple of years

Olly wrote:Compton doing that thing where he refuses to score runs again

He will...just give him enough time.

If we're still batting by the 5th day, I'm sure he'll have got at least 50.

Compton has just scored a 3 - going through the gears now and looking good for a call up to the T20 squad

I did write it half seriously, half hoping my jinx would kick him into action....

Seems to have worked - he gets dropped then smokes a couple of 4's all in the same over, well one was edged but its all relative

Cripes! Compton gets a life, dropped by de Villiers, off Morris on 6. Root cover drives for 4, then gets worked over by Morkel the next 2 balls.

Quite a battle out there.

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - I suppose an important consideration is whether running on the pitch is just unlucky, stupidly reckless or a mix of gamesmanship and cheating.  

Nearly always very hard to tell and I'm sure some of us will have different views depending on what team the bowler is playing for!

As you suggest, sensible umpiring with an early quiet word should be able to stop most issues arising.

I honestly don't think it is gamesmanship. To actively mess with your delivery and follow through for the sake of wearing the pitch ? When your team is batting last ? Don't think so...
It is an involuntary action , a consequence of your whole run up to follow through sequence ; and some bowlers are more prone to trespass than others. Like no balling , or clipping the stumps ...can be eradicated by practice ; but not always with ease. So occasional slips are going to happen ; and that is where the particular umpire and his attitude will be significant.

I am pretty sure Jimmy had trouble with this very issue in 2003 against SA , in his first year as a Test bowler. Hasn't often been bothered by it to this degree in recent years... So is it one particular umpire with a bee in his bonnet , or is Jimmy redeveloping an old glitch in his action ? Perhaps a consequence of recovery from injury ? I am sure the backroom staff will be on to it...but might be hard to fix in the middle of a match. Hope it doesn't mess him up too much in second innings.

guildfordbat wrote:

Olly wrote:Cook is having a pretty torrid series with the bat

You mean the guy I tipped to be England's leading run scorer.

I find this odd. Cook came in in good form from UAE , and the warmups. Pitches have been fine for batting ; new ball attacks - mostly Steyn-less - fairly keen but hardly devastating ...so why ?

Thing is ; he has actually looked quite good at the crease - except he's not stayed there long enough. Got out in different ways ; not really made any mistakes except the fatal ones...
Usually if someone is in a run of outs they look awkward or tentative - or reckless. But I don't think Cook has : so I'm at a loss to explain five scores of under thirty.

Guildford's tip is looking a very long shot at present

Compton falls to the impressive Rabafa so that drop hasn't been too costly for SA - just the unlucky Morris.

Lively hour since lunch. England need a solid partnership.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Olly wrote:Cook is having a pretty torrid series with the bat

You mean the guy I tipped to be England's leading run scorer.

I find this odd.  Cook came in in good form from UAE , and the warmups. Pitches have been fine for batting ; new ball attacks - mostly Steyn-less - fairly keen but hardly devastating ...so why ?

Thing is ; he has actually looked quite good at the crease - except he's not stayed there long enough. Got out in different ways ; not really made any mistakes except the fatal ones...
Usually if someone is in a run of outs they look awkward or tentative - or reckless.  But I don't think Cook has : so I'm at a loss to explain five scores of under thirty.

Guildford's tip is looking a very long shot at present

Alfie - thanks at least for suggesting there was some reasoning behind my tip even though it seems to now have next to no chance of coming off!

SOMETHING SOMETHING JOKE ABOUT JAMES TAYLOR BEING SMALL SOMETHING SOMETHING

Guide to commentating when Jimmy T is batting

Olly wrote:SOMETHING SOMETHING JOKE ABOUT JAMES TAYLOR BEING SMALL SOMETHING SOMETHING

Guide to commentating when Jimmy T is batting

Will this do?

Oh dear, Taylor gone.

Good and clever catch at short leg by Bavuma, deliberately palming the ball up in the air before taking it.

4 down now and England still don't have 3 figures on the board. Really need a partnership.

Jimmy T gone to another small man's catching...a seriously good catch at that !

Morkel getting some alarming bounce. Stokes has walked in at a tricky time...

Ever since Root dropped ABDV on day two of the last test it's been downhill for England

Oh boy - now Scrappy's gone and England are knee-deep in the brown stuff and sinking fast!

I don't think I can bear to watch.

Stokes hits a six - this is gonna be explosive either way

Guess we always knew England would have some difficulties batting here : the bounce is alien to them , while SA are just that bit more accustomed to it. So I am hardly shocked to see them 90/4.

There is still batting left : the challenge now is to make sure they use that depth to take the sting out of this South African attack...easier did than done !

Stokes is going to take them on . This series continues to be watchable...

alfie wrote:Guess we always knew England would have some difficulties batting here : the bounce is alien to them , while SA are just that bit more accustomed to it.  So I am hardly shocked to see them 90/4.

There is still batting left : the challenge now is to make sure they use that depth to take the sting out of this South African attack...easier did than done !

Stokes is going to take them on .  This series continues to be watchable...

Mostly through the fingers at the moment.

I don't think I've ever seen a match like this. One minute the batsmen are smacking balls to (or over) the boundary, the next they're defending / almost nicking / getting hit. Frenetic stuff!

Olly wrote:Ever since Root dropped ABDV on day two of the last test it's been downhill for England

Slight overstatement , Olly. SA have had the better of it generally over the last few days but it's not been all one way traffic...lot of cricket left in this match too.

And there's the follow on saved at least

A Root/Stokes counter attack

A treat for the eyes indeed

Gripping stuff! Can Stokes and Root keep this going at 8+ an over.

Fifty stand in six overs...

Fair play to Stokes - considering no-one has made a score of note yet, which suggests a ball with your name on is always round the corner, make the most of your time out there!

Cracking shot over wicketkeeper's head.

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Gripping stuff! Can Stokes and Root keep this going at 8+ an over.

They did at Lord's back in May...

These two seem to regard this as the best response to adversity. It won't always come off ; it may not last long enough today. But it will always be great to watch ; and it will generally be a better bet than grim defence going nowhere...I salute the approach.

As I do another Root fifty

I do hope he can convert this one...

Remember that time when Ben Stokes literally couldn't bat if his life depended on it

That was weird

And Root passes 50 for the first half century of the match after 12 others got into double figures but didn't make more than 46.

Half an hour ago he was scratching around, scoring at 30 per 100 balls. Now has reached the 50 in 77 deliveries and is almost keeping pace with the Stokes assault.

As Alfie said earlier, Rabada in particular has been impressive. However, as I've been banging on about for the last couple of days, this is largely an inexperienced South African attack. If Root and Stokes can keep going for a bit after tea, it could become increasingly hard for the bowlers.

All assuming the weather holds.

Great fightback from Root and Stokes

Not out of the woods yet by any means, but if these two are still in by close of play, they should have dragged England to parity with SA.

guildfordbat wrote:As Alfie said earlier, Rabada in particular has been impressive. However, as I've been banging on about for the last couple of days, this is largely an inexperienced South African attack. If Root and Stokes can keep going for a bit after tea, it could become increasingly hard for the bowlers.

All assuming the weather holds.

Suspect the weather will take a hand at some point . The point about the lack of experience in the SA attack I a good one...though to be honest any group of quicks can be worn down if they don't have a spinner to give them regular breaks. At least this time SA have four of them.
Won't be an overlong session today though so I doubt tiredness will kill off the bowling - though they might go for a few...

Suspect we may be done for the day soon.

Light fading fast. Floodlights on...looks like the excitement could be brought to a premature halt.

Such a shame during one of the most even bat vs ball contests I've ever seen.

Indeed it is a great contest to watch...has been all through I reckon , even when one side has got on top there has always been the feeling that a swing of fortunes might come along...

This particular pitch by promoting aggressive fast bowling and stroke play has made for some very entertaining action. Could be a cracker of a match.

Stokes fifty

Brought up in typical style with a fierce pull...and now the hundred stand as well...

This attack has potential but it badly needs a spearhead. There isn't a guy who can rein it in when things get bad. Second match in a row we've had England in a spot of bother and just withered away

Great innings by the "Ginger Botham"

Think he even inspired Root to go on the offensive a bit more. These two are slowly but surely swinging the match back in England's favour...if they can just keep going a bit longer...

dyrewolfe wrote:Great innings by the "Ginger Botham"

Think he even inspired Root to go on the offensive a bit more. These two are slowly but surely swinging the match back in England's favour...if they can just keep going a bit longer...

I usually do this

Ah , rats ! Stokes done by a sharp bouncing delivery ...Morkel and SA relief !

The curse of Nelson : 111 partnership and they were exactly 111 behind. I saw that and was anxious for that ball...rightly so !

Game on.

That partnership has righted the bowlers poor performance yesterday morning and means at worst we pretty much will have a one innings game

kingraf wrote:This attack has potential but it badly needs a spearhead. There isn't a guy who can rein it in when things get bad. Second match in a row we've had England in a spot of bother and just withered away

It is what it is though , raf. They are all attacking bowlers...they will never contain a Stokes ; but they are always a chance to take a wicket. If you want the four of them and no spinner that's the risk you take. Actually working OK for them so far despite that rapid counterattack.