South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

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South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by VTR on Tue 12 Jan 2016, 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

The pivotal 3rd Test starts in two days time. England are expected to be unchanged. Dale Steyn is out injured for SA and looks doubtful for the rest of the series, though Kyle Abbott is fit and will come into the frame for selection. Another possible change is someone else to open in the place of Van Zyl

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:52 pm

alfie wrote:Good bit of work from Bairstow - who is having a good day behind the stumps - made ground to gather the throw and end that partnership just as it was looking solid.

SA guilty of throwing away a few wickets today ...which is why I'd suggest this pitch is not a bad one to bat on at all : they are all getting good starts.

A lot up to Morris now.

I agree fully on those points alfie.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:53 pm

Bavuma just didn't honour his partner's call then...had no business looking back instead of getting his head down and running. Reckon he'd have made his ground had he run on the call...Vilas was running to the danger end , in fact.
Just bad running.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:04 pm

Good spell here from Broad - off colour or not. Got a couple to bounce a bit surprisingly and has done for Vilas clap

Just what the doctor ordered for Cook with five to go to the second new ball...

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:05 pm

South Africa now up against it as they lose another wicket and stand on 225 for 7. However, you still feel if they can find a 50 partnership in the tail then they will post a competitive score.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:07 pm

how many Saffer batsmen have thrown their wickets away now?

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:07 pm

And now Broad weighs in with the wicket of Vilas...SA down to 225-7. Strange how so many have played themselves in, then got out to bad shots...

Well into the tail now.

I just hope England can do better when they bat.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:09 pm

Commentators are emphasizing how difficult this pitch is to bat on...

I don't know : certainly there is a bit there for the bowlers when they put the effort in ; but the run rate has been good , and plenty of good strokemaking has been on display. Not a road like Cape Town of course ...but I wouldn't call it a monster either.
Good for pace bowling and for stroke play I'd say.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by VTR on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:18 pm

I am not sure about this whole throwing wickets away thing. I think its just how a lot of modern players play, they go for their shots and sometimes those shots go a bit wrong and end up with the fielders. I think the Cook/Compton/Amla type of player is a dying breed, and even they aren't immune to getting out to an attacking shot

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:19 pm

Hi Alfie,

I've only just returned having been out for a couple of hours but in the first session and the second whilst I was around, the pitch didn't seem to be doing much. Any encouragement then for the bowlers seemed to be from the rather gloomy conditions.

Poor shots to get out from several of the SA batsmen from what I've seen, Amla excepted. All the top 7 getting past 15 but no one getting to 50 - imo they need to be looking at themselves more than the pitch.

I won't go so far as to say that Bairstow's efforts today establish him as a Test wicket keeper in my eyes but he can certainly should take confidence from his performance which can only be good for him and us.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:26 pm

Tail can still wag. SA perhaps guilty of England's big weakness, converting starts to scores.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:27 pm

guildfordbat wrote:I won't go so far as to say that Bairstow's efforts today establish him as a Test wicket keeper in my eyes but he can certainly should take confidence from his performance which can only be good for him and us.

The fact that they have sent Buttler off to IPL means that for now and the first series of the summer Bairstow will be the keeper. That will be the longest run of matches he has ever had in a single role and allied to the ton last hit out will again be helping confidence. Confident players move better and look better so will all help him.

He will never be a Jack Russell with the gloves, but could perhaps be at least the equal of keepers like Prior or Stewart maybe.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:50 pm

This partnership is pulling the day back to parity for me.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:52 pm

Pesky eighth wicket partnership holding England up now - new ball and all.

TV commentators clearly at odds with those on here re the pitch : they all seem to think it is hard to bat on and blame England for poor bowling - I missed the first session but they've looked all right since then to me.
I will say a couple of batsmen seem to have misjudged the bounce ; so it is possible it has been a little deceptive...but then again I see a number nine standing up ok to a second new ball so I'm not convinced.
It does have bounce : so England may not find batting easy. But still I'd call it a good first day pitch.
England will be disappointed not to have knocked over this pair with the new ball...few beating the bat , but no edges to hand yet...

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by VTR on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:57 pm

Engkand wasting the new ball again, these runs are taking SA towards a very workable total

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:58 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:This partnership is pulling the day back to parity for me.

Maybe. But I should point out at 264/7 it is closer to your "England to be happy" road map (250/8) than SA ( 300/5) Smile

Two overs left now. Reckon one more wicket swings it to England...but I would probably call it pretty even otherwise .Lot to play for tomorrow...

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:01 pm

Funny how often bowlers can struggle against tail-enders...

Where's Trebs with his reverse-jinxes when you need them? Sad
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:03 pm

Morris showing his all round value here...SA finishing the day with three still in hand , when they might easily have been all out for this total. And Rabada supporting well.

I'm calling this an even day .

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:03 pm

South Africa battle through to close on 267 for 7 and I'd now call that an even day. South Africa's first half of the day and England's second half of the day. Evenly poised.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:04 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Funny how often bowlers can struggle against tail-enders...

Where's Trebs with his reverse-jinxes when you need them? Sad

Sometimes the rabbits aren't good enough to edge them...

Ah well ; we will see tomorrow.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:06 pm

Average day one score at the Wanderers is 248/6. So an extra wicket for 20 odd runs. England's day because they've lost the toss but, we'll be satisfied enough. Not too often an innings without a 50 gets within an earshot of 300.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:07 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:South Africa battle through to close on 267 for 7 and I'd now call that an even day. South Africa's first half of the day and England's second half of the day. Evenly poised.

I'd lean to it being more England's day. If the SA batters had shown a bit more application they could be in a much stronger position.

That said, they need to break this partnership early tomorrow, otherwise they could be set for hours of frustration.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:32 pm

We obviously need to see how England bat first dig before making a clear judgment of today's play but I would say at this stage that England shaded it.

Pitch clearly isn't a road but doesn't seem a minefield either. 7 wickets on the first day shouldn't be sneezed at.

I reckon South Africa will need to bowl better tomorrow than they batted today - and keep in mind they have a largely inexperienced attack.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dummy_half on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:38 pm

I'd call it 60:40 to England overall. Looked to be in a strong position when the 7th wicket went down, but this partnership has pulled SA back into contention.

Odd day though - England apparently not good for the first half hour or so, but then improved. Lacked a bit of luck at times (esp Finn), and despite that all SA batsmen have scored in double figures (only 1 not reaching 20) but none have got more than Elgar's 46. Quite a few got themselves out, with only really Elgar and Amla being exempt from criticism for how they lost their wickets.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 5:02 pm

With an hour left to play England had an opening. The new ball at tail-enders and they failed to make a breakthrough that is why I can't call it as England's day. Besides the first innings on this pitch is not normally in excess of 300 here so South Africa may get past that mark.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 5:22 pm

Dummy - smallish and perhaps nit picking point in the scheme of things but I wouldn't exempt Elgar for his dismissal. As I posted at the time, I felt he seemed to feel for the ball unnecessarily.

Craig - sure, we appeared to run out of gas and didn't take the last hour as I would have hoped but in the rest of the day and so on balance I feel we shaded it.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 5:26 pm

We'll have to agree too disagree. South Africa owned the first half of the day, England owned the second half of the day so I'd say it is parity. England need to skittle out South Africa for under 300 first thing tomorrow or else they may be up against it.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by JDizzle on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 6:49 pm

Not seen any of the action yet, but Stokes going at less than 3 an over with the ball again - an area which he has improved massively.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 3:44 am

A bit late in posting here as the internet was acting up a bit.
At cricinfo they reckon it is an even day. But I think South Africa lost a wicket too many to make it even. OK Morris is an all-rounder, but a bowling all-rounder at that. There is no recognized batsman left in the hut and they haven't even reached 300. This doesn't look a 7 wicket on day 1 type of pitch, even Styan van Zyl managed to reach double figures on it! In fact all the SA batsmen did so. So an underwhelming day for South Africa.
Van Zyl as always was, just atrocious. More than anyone else he needed a score and he duely gave his wicket away that too after surviving the first 5 balls a demand he has found to be rather demanding in test cricket. The man is incredibly lucky or he has something on the management/selectors to stay in the side this long. Elgar, AB and Bavuma also wasted starts. du Plessis looked more like his self in India and the first test, the 86 was just the result of a substandard pitch it seems and hasn't even given him much confidence unlike in the case of Hashim Amla who looked close to his dangerous best before being undone by an absolute beauty from my man Finn!
Finn looked the pick of the bowlers for England, Broad and Anderson not quite on the money....... Ali contributed well too and Stokes continues to build his reputation as an impact player.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 8:09 am

Okay the Day 2 road map for South Africa will be to bat through the morning session to lunch at a score between 325 and 350. Do that and they'll be content. By tea they would want to reduce England to around 75 for 3 and at close of play have England around 160 for 6.

On the other hand England will want to skittle South Africa out for less than 300 in the first hour of play and reach lunch unscathed around 25 for 0. They would hope to kick on in the afternoon and be no worse than 100 for 2 at tea and then close around 200 for 4 but no worse than that.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 8:48 am

Broad draws Morris into a shot and he is caught by Bairstow. South Africa 281 for 8.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by VTR on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 8:49 am

Finally that stand is broken - but 56 by numbers 8 and 9 against the new ball is useful stuff.

If SA get their lengths right with the new ball, I could see England being in deep trouble - remember they are usually 50-3 no matter what the conditions are like!

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 8:52 am

Anderson chips in with a wicket in the next over and South Africa are 283 for 9.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 8:54 am

Bairstow (who can't wicket-keep remember) equals the record for most catches by a wicketkeeper in a test at Jo.burg.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:17 am

A flurry of runs from this last wicket are crucial for South Africa. They are now up to around the average first innings score at Jo'burg.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:18 am

Bairstow at full stretch fails to take a record-breaking catch. South Africa are 313 for 9.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:19 am

Anderson out of attack for running on the wicket.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:21 am

Stokes takes over the rest of the over and first ball he gets a wicket. South Africa post 313 as their first innings score. Pretty level I'd say. Not a terrible score but one that England would have taken once they lost the toss.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:22 am

We will have a better idea of what is a good score once both teams have batted.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dummy_half on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:25 am

A 'what happened next' end to the innings:
Morkel dropped from the first ball of the over
Anderson getting done for running on the wicket and withdrawn on the second ball
Stokes taking the final wicket with the third ball...

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dummy_half on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:35 am

And 313 all out - probably about par, but SA will definitely be happy with the start and end of their innings, England with what happened in the middle spell.
First two wickets added 117, last 3 added 88 very useful runs. The five in between falling for 108 was the problem.

A new record for SA - the lowest Test innings in which every player has reached double figures. Narrowly missed the record for the highest score for a team where no-one has reached 50. Generally a difficult innings to call whether it was good, bad or indifferent from the SA point of view.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:39 am

Well that wasn't too bad.

Broad was a bit expensive and Jimmy is still clearly the worse for wear. Bairstow finally made an error, but thanks to Stokes it didn't cost England.


Worried after hearing a thunderstorm is due sometime in the afternoon...apparently it will help the ball swing a few hours prior to that, which will probably see us struggle to hold on to our wickets.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:49 am

SA having the better of the day so far...very useful 30 run last wicket stnd and now they've nipped Hales out cheaply...

Certainly help there for the bowlers : but Hales is the first player not to reach double figures.


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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:52 am

dummy_half wrote:A 'what happened next' end to the innings:
Morkel dropped from the first ball of the over
Anderson getting done for running on the wicket and withdrawn on the second ball
Stokes taking the final wicket with the third ball...

Hi Dummy and all,

Do you know what that means for Jimmy in South Africa's second innings? I'm guessing he can bowl from the start but already has extra warnings applying to him?

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:55 am

guildfordbat wrote:
dummy_half wrote:A 'what happened next' end to the innings:
Morkel dropped from the first ball of the over
Anderson getting done for running on the wicket and withdrawn on the second ball
Stokes taking the final wicket with the third ball...

Hi Dummy and all,

Do you know what that means for Jimmy in South Africa's second innings? I'm guessing he can bowl from the start but already has extra warnings applying to him?

Don't think so , guildford. This innings is over , so he starts "clean" again . Although this umpire does seem to be on his case , rather. Wonder if this has been bothering him over these two Tests ?

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dummy_half on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:58 am

Guildford

My understanding was that the two innings are treated separately, so Jimmy is fine to bowl in the 2nd innings with no warnings against his name. His punishment was to be prevented from bowling for the remainder of the first innings only - just a bonus that that constituted one delivery...

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:12 am

dummy_half wrote:And 313 all out - probably about par, but SA will definitely be happy with the start and end of their innings, England with what happened in the middle spell.
First two wickets added 117, last 3 added 88 very useful runs. The five in between falling for 108 was the problem.

A new record for SA - the lowest Test innings in which every player has reached double figures. Narrowly missed the record for the highest score for a team where no-one has reached 50. Generally a difficult innings to call whether it was good, bad or indifferent from the SA point of view.

Indeed very hard to assess that innings ! Great start , everyone getting double figures , pitch appears conducive to stroke making ...which all suggests 313 is something of an underachievement. But then the bounce and movement available to the bowlers , the recent average scores for the ground , and the fact that no one passed fifty tends to make it look like it may be a bit over par...

I reckon it is a good enough first innings score for the conditions. If they bowl well it is probably enough to maintain the advantage of having won the toss. So they won't be unhappy : runs on the board , eh ?

But whether it is a matchwinning score or not is rather down to England's batting performance and how the pitch and weather behave over the later days of the match.
In keeping with the well matched nature of this interesting series.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:20 am

Cook gone to a flick down leg exactly as in Cape Town ! Big slice of luck for Viljoen to an innocuous first delivery ...a terrific catch by the keeper though clap

Cook is rather finding ways to get out at the moment ...

Trouble for England.

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by VTR on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:20 am

Cook caught down the legside again. He needs to work on that - you can't call it "strangled" any more, its happening all the time. Not looking good for England now with both openers out cheaply. Over to the middle and lower order as usual

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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:26 am

Great - just the start England didn't want! picard

Lets hope Compo and Root can hang around a bit longer.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:26 am

Alfie and Dummy - thanks for clarifying.

I don't want to appear down on Jimmy - I'm actually not and thought the decision on his final ball was pretty harsh, don't know what had gone on before (not sure that Jimmy or Cook did either!).

However, it seems a little odd that a bowler is removed from the attack in the first innings by an umpire for an apparently serious offence and yet when the second innings starts the official view is ''ok, forget about that, move on as if nothing happened before''. Mind you, as Alfie rather implies, I'm sure there'll be eyes closely on Jimmy second dig.

Good fortune anyway for Stokes. [Alfie - it was Stokes' golden arm with the tail (I know it was only 1 wicket here) which led to my wild punt on him being England's top wicket taker in the series; I accept still a long way to go and it remains unlikely but he's done ok so far in the last two days.]

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