PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 12 Jan 2016, 7:03 pm

1).Starman: Couldn't start anywhere else really. Jordan Spieth took Kapalua to its knees last week; difficult to imagine such a performance which, shot by shot can look ordinary, but the final product is so extraordinary. And it all added up to an eight stroke win over Reed.
But amidst all the commentating orgasms in Maui, it's easy to forget that these same broadcasters are on their way to Honolulu where Jimmy Walker won by NINE strokes last year.

2).The Young Americans made a splash at Kapalua, and that got NBC's Mark Rolfing, waxing lyrical about the the prospect of Koepka, Thomas, etc joining Spieth, Reed, Fowler and the rest in making the US Ryder Cup Team, in his words probably at the expense of "middle aged guys" like "Furyk". Zach Johnson turns 40 next month too, but wouldn't bet on Furyk, Johnson or Mickelson taking a back seat to All The Young Dudes; each is as competitive as they come.

3).Laughing Gnome: Yup, Rolfing is back, not from an alcoholic time out this time, but from cancer surgery. Good health to him, just keep away from my TV set.

4).Valentine's Day: My January Valentine is Dottie Pepper. Yes she's built like a linebacker, Yes she waves her stars-and-stripes knickers to a fault, but she's a superb commentator and it is confirmed she'll be part of the CBS commentary team at The Masters, the first woman to get that gig. She'll also receive a Golf Writers Of America award recognizing "an individual who has made an outstanding contribution to golf". Plus she's a good Saratoga girl, her family growing up in the same golfing circles as the Duvals, Philos among others.

5).Rebel Rebel: Who's the Tour's Number One "Rebel"? Imagine only Tim Finchem can answer that correctly, but even his eyes must spin like saucers when he sees Matt Every's results. Another wasted week for young Matt at Kapalua. Given his results, one wouldn't be surprised if he led the Tour in drug tests, following his indiscretions at the John Deere a few years ago, his occasionally outspoken comments and, most relevant here, his results over the past nine-ish months, following the successful defence of his Bay Hill title. Two more withdrawals (5) since a T42 at The Players than cuts made (3, all in no-cut events).
He's not wasting everyone's time at this week's Sony Open; good thing, last year he d/q'd. Moron.

6).Buddha of Suburbia: Yup, Tiger Woods has been pictured with a club in his hands. Stop press.

7).Under Pressure: Interesting article in the Telegraph (tks GPB) about Luke Donald contemplating his future in the game after some poor results last spring. Unusual for a professional sportsman to sound so vulnerable. Especially as his form since getting the spring has not been much better. New (old) coach, new caddie. New outlook? He's playing in Honolulu so hopefully he'll show some improvement; if not, it'll be a long year for Lukey.

8).Heroes: Ryder Cup Heroes teeing it up at the "Sony" include Luke Donald, Harrington, McDowell and Molinari. None is assured a ticket to Hazeltine, so an important few months for that lot, among others.

9).The Man Who Fell To Earth: Robert Allenby is making his return to Honolulu following last year's ignominious exit which left him battered and bruised, physically and psychologically.
Bad karma, most of his own making, has been with him ever since, but he's looking to turn over a new leaf, not to mention a new wife. And he needs to as he's playing this year on a career money exemption, his last chance saloon, though I'm sure he'd put it another way. I've enjoyed following him in the past so hope he plays well.

10).Blackstar: Not quite but our old friend, the "Undercover Pro" comes up with a fun story from the practice range where he slags off the hangers-on who offer "bad advice and meddling on the range".
"Not enough people appreciate Vijay Singh. He was the first golfer to figure out that if you were highly abrasive, you could reclaim the range as your office. Swing coaches, caddies, trainers, reps - pretty much everyone stopped approaching Vijay because they knew they were going to get told to go f--- themselves."

Ashes to Ashes. RIP.

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Post by pedro on Tue 12 Jan 2016, 7:27 pm

Cheers kwini thumbsup
9) you could add 'Dancing in the Street'

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 12 Jan 2016, 8:01 pm

Ha! Free advice is generally worth exactly what I've paid.

I saw VJ take a 6' x 10' area of sod out of a driving range at a tournament. Went to the far corner and just hit balls for 3 hours. Factory type work. Caddie stood there the entire time replenishing ball bags, cleaning and exchanging clubs. It's worked for VJ, that's for sure.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 12 Jan 2016, 8:25 pm

Great writeup Kwini OK.
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Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 9:21 am

"Caddie stood there the entire time replenishing ball bags"

Very childish, but I have to admit to having a chuckle at that.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 11:22 am

Nice work Kwini.

If the tiger photo was the one posted by the @secrettourpro, then I think it turned out to be from a couple of years ago.


The Luke donald quitting story got me thinking. Does anyone know who the highest ranked player to walk away from the game was? I can't think of any golfer that actually retired instead of just burning through every ounce of exemption that they gained.
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Post by super_realist on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 12:39 pm

Probably that Chinese looking American Mac who was fond of rubbish belt buckles, can't remember his name.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 12:57 pm

Anthony Kim. Who was clearly of Korean origin.

But yes, that is probably one of the few examples. You hear tales of him not playing in order to collect on insurance but I doubt if that is true. I suspect he is now totally gash and knows it, so doesn't even try and make a comeback.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:14 pm

Thanks chaps, chappettes, Too many good Bowie tracks to choose from. Could've done a hole ten notes on Changes.


Mac,
What about Bill Rogers?

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Post by McLaren on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:23 pm

Is he any relation to buck?

What is his story?
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Post by super_realist on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:37 pm

What about that oaf who missed the putt on the 18th to win the British Open at TOC?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:37 pm

And another who walked away, from the PGA Tour anyway, just turned 50 yesterday. Wonder if he'll play Champions Tour, for which he has at least a two-year exemption, or stay in Australia? Popeye!

Duval and Baker Finch might just as well have walked away, plus not sure what happened to Brett Ogle.

Mac,
You'll just have to google Bill Rogers if you don't know him.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:43 pm

Kwini, like most people on here I know he won the Open, but as it is a discussion forum it would be good if you could provide a little more detail.
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Post by super_realist on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:52 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini, like most people on here I know he won the Open, but as it is a discussion forum it would be good if you could provide a little more detail.

JFGI

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 2:11 pm

He basically burned out while still at the top of his game, dragged it out for a couple of years and returned to a club job in Texas.

For more here's the ever unctuous, and geographically challenged, Tim Rosaforte's take on it all:

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-british-rogers-rosaforte

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Post by pedro on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

Anders Hansen retired didn't he?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 2:33 pm

Yup, Derksen too.

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Post by GPB on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 5:24 pm

Golf-com has an article about Kevin Na and his psyche.

Pretty interesting.

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/complicated-kevin-na-case-study-frailty-golfers-psyche?simple=1

A couple of interesting anecdotes with Stevie Williams and Tiger towards the end of the article.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 6:02 pm

Does Rory have soft drink endorsement?
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 6:18 pm

Interesting GPB, but I've seen Na's act a couple of times on the course.
On one occasion he stomped off the 18th green without acknowledging anyone there, players, caddies, any of the walking group; must've signed cards in the tent.
And a similar sort of disrespect for fellow players, playing out of turn etc.
Can quite easily believe there've been some grudges built up, many of which he's probably oblivious to. Remember the time he excavated a good chunk of the 18th tee at East Lake?
Perhaps he'll overcome his demons and some of the enemies he's cultivated; maybe this week at a course he should thrive on.

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Post by GPB on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 6:27 pm

Na is not one of my favorites, but I do think he has improved his pace of play.

But I know the mantra here is that once a player has been identified as Slow, that they will never shake that reputation.

Except if it is a European player.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 6:35 pm

What's his slow play got to do with it?
Don't think anyone not in your linked article mentioned it.

McDowell seems a perfectly nice guy, but he's slow. But not a d1ckhead like Na has sometimes been.

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Post by GPB on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 6:52 pm

Sergio is slow and a D-bag.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 7:07 pm

What's that got to do with anything? Good lord.

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Post by Shotrock on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 9:33 pm

Sergio, of course, is all those things ... but his name is "proper"!

Smile


As the Alberta Clipper comes my way, I look forward to some more golf from Hawaii.

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Post by sirbenson on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 10:27 pm

Regarding slow play, both Spieth and Day's have a very slow pace of play but seem to get a pass, same with Phil.....

I know I am a fan of a renowned slow player who has improved but Padraig cannot shake the tag off.




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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 10:51 pm

sirb,
It seems the R&A's crackdown on slow play is because of Spieth at last year's Open . . . . . .

But this "discussion" was never about slow play, it was about the excellent Shipnuck article on Kevin Na's swing issues, pulling the trigger, etc.
GPB and Shotrock just hate Sergio, any old excuse to slag him off.

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Post by sirbenson on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 10:55 pm

Sergio who? haha

Not a fan either!!

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Post by GPB on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 11:18 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:sirb,
It seems the R&A's crackdown on slow play is because of Spieth at last year's Open . . . . . .

But this "discussion" was never about slow play, it was about the excellent Shipnuck article on Kevin Na's swing issues, pulling the trigger, etc.
GPB and Shotrock just hate Sergio, any old excuse to slag him off.

Did you not read the article?  It was full of references to his slow play issues.

and you are the one that said this


kwinigolfer wrote:But not a d1ckhead like Na has sometimes been.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 11:31 pm

Yeah, but that was Shipnuck, not us.
I said he's a d1ckhead and gave first-hand witness accounts of why I thought so. Never mentioned slow play.


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by pedro on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 11:37 pm

The Na article just confirms that Steve Williams is the biggest d!ckhead of them all.

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Post by raycastleunited on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:20 am

I'm not a fan of Na, but Steve Williams deserves a prime place on Jason's Kok rack

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Post by McLaren on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:20 am

Do we need an excuse to mention that Sergio is a bell end?
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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:29 am

Anchors Aweigh:
Scott, Simpson, Clark, Pettersson, Hearn, Bradley and probably some others starting life in America without the option to anchor their putter in their chest or belly.

Comeback from Brian Gay who's been out of action for more than a year, and Steve Stricker playing with an intent to play more, become more competitive when he does.

Davis Love scouting, playing rounds one and two with Kisner and Snedeker.

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Post by Bob_the_Job on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 10:31 am

Cheers Kwini - interesting write up

On to the article..

I had a grudging respect for Na - he of the 16 Fame...before reading the article and I have a bit more now. I think most amateurs can relate to the mental turmoil and pressure the game can put on your mind, and the thought of going through that with a large physical and TV audience is daunting. So actually finishing the rounds is impressive, if not great golf.

As for Williams..second half of the Scary Monsters title says it all.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:06 pm

GPB wrote:Golf-com has an article about Kevin Na and his psyche.

Pretty interesting.

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/complicated-kevin-na-case-study-frailty-golfers-psyche?simple=1

A couple of interesting anecdotes with Stevie Williams and Tiger towards the end of the article.
Good read that, GPB. Thanks. The Williams and Woods anecdotes are right in character with both men I would say.
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Post by Roller_Coaster on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:32 pm

Really good article on Na, thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Thanks.

Think I might have smashed Stevie Williams in the kneecaps with a 7 iron and accepted the dq and whatever punishment was dished out. C**t.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:38 pm

Another one who enjoyed the Na article here. Thanks GPB.

It seems like Na is a lot more interesting than most on the PGAT but has been demonized by his peers for a slow play issue out of his control.

Spieth, Day, Stenson, Harrington, Furyk, Keegan (and many more) are all just as slow as Na and yet we hear little complaints about them. They do all happen to be conformist and white. Go figure.


In general I think someone needs to do a proper study of slow play and work out who is taking the longest time between shots and what actually causes slow play. I suspect those having 10 minute debates with the caddy before every shot are even slower than someone like Na who takes an extra few seconds over the ball.
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Post by super_realist on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:46 pm

Would love to see 2 players just charge ahead of a slow player and complete the hole without him. They'd soon speed up.

The funny thing about slow players, is that they're often the first to be walking off the tee before someone has even completed their swing. You see it on TV all the time.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

But super, how do you know who are actually the Slow players. For example Na spends a bit too long over the ball, but if his Caddy chat is only 2/3 minutes long compared to someone like willet who spends about 5+ minutes discussing every shot then who is the slow player?
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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:07 pm

super_,
Sabbatini was castigated for doing that very thing at Congressional a few years ago, playing with Ben Crane.

And, just to connect the dots, this from Sabbatini talking about a round with Kevin Na:
"I was having a real battle with him being as how slow he was. So I let the round play out and at the end of the day I said:
'Kevin, I just wanted to let you know that I thought you were extremely slow out there, and maybe it's something you could work on.'
As opposed to a few years ago when I blew up at Ben Crane."

Everyone seems to hate Sabbatini and I've seen him behave like a brat. But have also seen him being great with fans, just the opposite of his image.


Mac,
Not everything in life is prejudicial you know. I bet Na would have a lot more friends and admirers if he was more like KJ Choi, for instance, probably have more success too.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:08 pm

Pretty much all pro golfers are slow Mac, never been to a tournament? There's no reason they can't get by at 10% slower than club golfers. Lets not forget they take fewer shots than we do. Statistically, even with a 10% grace slowness allowance, they should actually be quicker.

It's also not a case of waiting for player 1 to finish their shot process before beginning theirs, people seem to do that all the time.

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Post by Shotrock on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:31 pm

That was a fine article.

On slow play ...

I'm guessing that if you polled the caddies they would know best who's chronically slow, sometimes slow, and almost never slow.

And, until the tour (US for purposes of this discussion) actually goes beyond warnings and assesses penalties, those warning will be as toothless as a UN resolution.


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Post by super_realist on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:34 pm

Tennis is terrible at punishing slow play too. Nadal is the worst offender, but gets away with it all the time.

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Post by GPB on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:39 pm

Re: SlowPlay

IMO: the biggest contributor to slow play on Tour is that 60-70 percent of all rounds is played on split tees.

It simply is counter productive to play fast when on split tees knowing that you will run into a bottle neck when you make the turn.

And if I were tour pro, I would optimize my pace of play to for the 5 hour round of golf.

Yes, I get frustrated watching the long pre shot routines, but just because a player has long pre shot routine does not mean they are slow.  Furyk has had an agonizing pre shot routine but I never seen his group put on the clock.

Na said in the article that he walks fast to mitigate his pre shot routine.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:40 pm

One thing about the present system that doesn't work is putting a group on the clock, leading to the inevitable "tarred by the same brush" effect whereby an innocent player can get rushed unfairly.

The stat's on times are all available now, to the PGA Tour at least, so why don't they name, shame and punish?

One remedy would be to group the faster players together, and there are plenty, and send them out early on Thursday and Friday, and group the slower players at the end of each wave. Would think the stigma of slow coaches would cause them to get a move on, and warnings and fines could be applied more equitably.

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Post by GPB on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 4:52 pm

Remember, the tour is not run by Finchem and his cronies.

Finchem and his cronies answer to the players and if the players don't want something to happen, it ain't going to happen.

If the players don't want fines published, they ain't going to get published.

PGATour players have a lot more leverage and power than the players of the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB.

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PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 5:04 pm

Be that as it may, don't publish fines then, but that remedy would cause TV Networks and thence sponsors to try to influence players to get a move on.

Or just accept the status quo and go round in circles on it.
But at least it sounds as if the R&A will do something, even if that just affects the pros for one event per year. And at least partly directly attributable to Spieth at TOC last "summer".

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PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Bob_the_Job on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 5:11 pm

kwinigolfer wrote: One remedy would be to group the faster players together, and there are plenty, and send them out early on Thursday and Friday, and group the slower players at the end of each wave. ..

I like this idea because there is an incentive - play quicker, get out earlier, get fresher greens.
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PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 5:28 pm

And at least partly directly attributable to Spieth at TOC last "summer"

is there a  citation for that?  or is it just conjecture?

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PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Golf Oddity: Notes from the Ballwasher

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