Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

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Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by George Carlin on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 7:05 am

    
Saracens Ulster Rugby
Saturday 16 January 2016
KO 15:15
Allianz Park, Barnet

Live on Sky Sports

Referee Jerome Garces (France)
Touch Judge 1: [tbc]
Touch Judge 2: [tbc]
Fourth Official: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]
Assessor: [tbc]
Citing Commissioner: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

7 Played 7
6 Wins 1
1 Losses 6
0 Draws 0
175 Points 107

B. Tournament Form

Saracens
19/12/15 - Saracens 55 - 13 Oyonnax
13/12/15 - Oyonnax 10 - 45 Saracens
20/11/15 - Ulster 9 - 27 Saracens

Ulster Rugby
10/1/16 - Oyonnax 23 - 24 Ulster
20/12/15 - Toulouse 23 - 25 Ulster
11/12/15 - Ulster 38 - 0 Toulouse

C. Teams

Saracens

[tbc]

Ulster

[tbc]

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 9:44 am

Nick Williams is a huge loss for this one. Really, we have to try and squeeze out a LBP.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 10:18 am

I don't see where we could possibly have the beating of Sarries but stranger things happen. They are only out for the win and don't need any bonus points, I just hope they aren't feeling overly ruthless so we can slip under the radar and get within 7 points for that LBP.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by rodders on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 10:26 am

I think we definitely need a LBP after last week but a WBP would be fine as well!

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by marty2086 on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 12:49 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:I don't see where we could possibly have the beating of Sarries but stranger things happen. They are only out for the win and don't need any bonus points, I just hope they aren't feeling overly ruthless so we can slip under the radar and get within 7 points for that LBP.

Quins may have just made them angry by having the audacity to beat them

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:07 pm

rodders wrote:I think we definitely need a LBP after last week but a WBP would be fine as well!

Yeah I'd like to get one point, but I'd settle for five Wink

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 13 Jan 2016, 1:43 pm

The way the games fall, I can see some 5 pointers in the other pools over the last two rounds. This would probably mean that even a LBP would still require a 5 point haul against Oyonnax. Doable but injury and weather dependent.
Ulster struggled on the plastic pitch in France with their footing, so maybe they will have learned from that, but Saracens will be looking to this game to secure a home quarter-final rather than take a chance on getting anything in Toulouse. Saracens will also have a number of England hopefuls trying to make a timely impression so I expect a strong team full of confidence and going hard for the bonus to earn a week off.
Sadly it looks like Saracens 4, Ulster 0.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Thu 14 Jan 2016, 9:44 pm

Not sure where to put this, as I don't fancy bumping the Oyonnax thread, but Stan Wright has copped a three week ban for a tip tackle on Chris Henry on Sunday past...

http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/news/32196.php#.VpgWWutmw04

Is it just me who can't remember it?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:59 am

Don't ask me at what point in the match it happened but I do remember it happening. I yelled at the TV at the time, then the ref and then our guinea pigs seeing as neither the TV or the ref was listening Smile
It was definitely well into the second half as far as I remember, right in front of the Ulster posts as Ulster were trying to employ their exit strategy. I think???

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:04 am

I shall correct myself. Ulster defending their line in the 78th minute, Chris goes on to help effect a choke tackle. Wright comes round the side of the attempted maul, picks Chris up and dumps him on his head/shoulders.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:55 am

I actually feel that Ulster have got a very good chance in this match. After last weeks stunning comeback, they will be on a high. I can see this being a very tight match with the timing of the substitutions playing a key role in the result.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:28 am

I hope you're right Billy. Ulster are a different side now to the one Saracens played and beat well at Ravespan. We were still playing Doakball to a large extent as that was Kiss' first European game whereas now the Kiss effect is evident. We did lead at half time in the home fixture and then fell apart. The side now has shown they are not apt to fall to pieces under pressure so perhaps we do stand a chance. Saracens are certainly not unbeatable as Quins demonstrated and as long as we can go there with that attitude then who knows.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:32 am

I just see Ulster improving with every passing week Pete, their 9 to 13 axis is in top form and could beat any team on their own. If Ulster get parity up front then their backs could very well cut loose. I would be slightly optimistic about this match if I was an Ulster fan. At the very least, I feel they will get an LBP and progress.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:35 am

Nick Williams will be a big loss especially without Henderson around, that physicality is important when playing Sarries or they can just bully you

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:37 am

When is Henderson set to return?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:39 am

Possibly out for the season Doh

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:43 am

Oh dear, that is a huge blow sorry to hear that.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:09 pm

Saracens
15. Ben Ransom; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Marcelo Bosch, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. Chris Wyles; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Jamie George, 3. Petrus du Plessis, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Michael Rhodes, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Billy Vunipola
16. Schalk Brits, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Juan Figallo, 19. Jim Hamilton, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Charlie Hodgson, 23. Duncan Taylor


Alex Goode injured?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:09 pm

Ulster Rugby
15. Jared Payne; 14. Andrew Trimble, 13. Luke Marshall, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 11. Craig Gilroy; 10. Paddy Jackson, 9. Ruan Pienaar; 1. Kyle McCall, 2. Rory Best, 3. Wiehahn Herbst, 4. Alan O'Connor, 5. Franco Van Der Merwe, 6. Robbie Diack, 7. Sean Reidy, 8. Roger Wilson
16. Rob Herring, 17. Callum Black, 18. Ricky Lutton, 19. Lewis Stevenson, 20. Clive Ross, 21. Paul Marshall, 22. Ian Humphreys, 23. Rory Scholes

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:17 pm

To lose both Henry and Williams is a big blow for our chances- possibly a terminal blow.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:24 pm

Without Henry the backrow looks really lightweight

Good to see Payne back and at 15, Ludik is overdue a break

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:27 pm

I think Ludik is actually out with a wee injury marty. Not sure if he will be back next week or not.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:30 pm

15. Jared Payne; 14. Andrew Trimble, 13. Luke Marshall, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 11. Craig Gilroy; 10. Paddy Jackson, 9. Ruan Pienaar.

That's a backline that could win any championship. Get parity in the forwards against Sarries and Ulster will do well.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:36 pm

It's the forwards and particularly our backrow that may be the problem though Billy. If we can't secure our own ball then that backline, which is formidable, may be better of taking a book onto the pitch for all the ball they'll see.
I'm all for optimism though so fingers crossed for this one, we can get revenge.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:38 pm

On another note how wonderful is it to see Luke Marshall getting such a long and very successful run of games. I am so happy for the lad.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:38 pm

In the words of the great GIBBO (who is sorely missed on here) Pete... BELIEVE thumbsup

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:39 pm

It is fantastic for Marshall, I was very worried that his career would be cut short due to the head injuries.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by rodders on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 1:29 pm

Excellent looking back line but if the cliche is true that games are won and lost in the pack then we're feiced in the back row especially.

But you know what - I think we'll win. I think we've found a bit of momentum and  am not convinced, for all the BT hype that Sarries are as strong as being made out.

On paper they are strong favourites but think they've benefited in the prem by some of their rivals, Bath especially, not making a good start to the season and some teams suffering a rwc hangover.

In Europe they haven't really been tested so I think this isn't a forgone conclusion.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 1:35 pm

What ever happens it should be a great game, I think both teams will be up for it. If Ulster can get one over on Sarries, they will have to go to Toulouse and win next week, they won't want to lose another game at home as Ulster are the only team to do it this season

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 2:09 pm

Not a forgone conclusion, but its going to have to be our best display of the season. Even better than winning against Toulouse home and away. I've no doubt this Saracens team is much, much better than Toulouse, they're much more organised and have much more leadership from the halfbacks. We can play very, very well indeed and still be beaten in a fixture like this if we make just one or two errors that they can pounce on.

Looking forward to it personally; if we lose no-one will be surprised but if we win, they've been built up so much because of their superlative form we'll be feted. A LBP and I'll be fairly happy, a win and I'll be delighted.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by brennomac on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 2:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:15. Jared Payne; 14. Andrew Trimble, 13. Luke Marshall, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 11. Craig Gilroy; 10. Paddy Jackson, 9. Ruan Pienaar.

That's a backline that could win any championship. Get parity in the forwards against Sarries and Ulster will do well.

As billy says that's a hell of a back line if they get the ball. Looking ahead, where exactly is Piutau going to fit in next year's back line. He may be great but having developed the Marshall-McClokey midfield to what it is it would be an awful shame to ditch one of them from the starting 15 for Piutau. Any views from our northern brethren. That said, if you want to play Piutau and send McCloskey down the M1 to us I'd be very happy Very Happy

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 2:48 pm

brennomac wrote:
eirebilly wrote:15. Jared Payne; 14. Andrew Trimble, 13. Luke Marshall, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 11. Craig Gilroy; 10. Paddy Jackson, 9. Ruan Pienaar.

That's a backline that could win any championship. Get parity in the forwards against Sarries and Ulster will do well.

As billy says that's a hell of a back line if they get the ball.  Looking ahead, where exactly is Piutau going to fit in next year's back line.  He may be great but having developed the Marshall-McClokey midfield to what it is it would be an awful shame to ditch one of them from the starting 15 for Piutau.  Any views from our northern brethren.  That said, if you want to play Piutau and send McCloskey down the M1 to us I'd be very happy Very Happy

As things stand, Ludik is out the door so Piutau will likely slot in at 15, he's looked good there the few times I seen him for Wasps but during international windows he could go out wide and Nelson to fb depending on guys like Gilroy, Trimble and Bowe being available

Theres a lot of versatility and quality in the backs next season so could be a conundrum picking the strongest backline when/if everyones fit and available (which is never)

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

Piatau whilst being primarily a 15 is as devastating as any Irish winger on the wing too. I don't think anyone will be overly worried as to what number's on his back with Ulster, a 15, 14 or 11 as long as he wears the shirt.


Last edited by Pete330v2 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

Piutau would be unlikely to dislodge the centres, unless you mean that whoever he replaces in the back 3 would then move to centre.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 3:00 pm

I think thats the argument LT. That Payne is too good to leave out and he would then move to 13. But the other options at 13 are also pretty good in their own right. Competition in the back line will be fierce next season and if everyone is fit and available it will be hard for us to keep everyone happy.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 4:44 pm

Missing Hemdo, Tuohy, Henry and Williams, we're toast.

A real issue - we could really do with an LBP here.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 5:10 pm

At least we have got Herbst and O'Connor back to stiffen the tight five. Silver lining!

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by yappysnap on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 6:06 pm

rodders wrote:Excellent looking back line but if the cliche is true that games are won and lost in the pack then we're feiced in the back row especially.

But you know what - I think we'll win. I think we've found a bit of momentum and  am not convinced, for all the BT hype that Sarries are as strong as being made out.

On paper they are strong favourites but think they've benefited in the prem by some of their rivals, Bath especially, not making a good start to the season and some teams suffering a rwc hangover.

In Europe they haven't really been tested so I think this isn't a forgone conclusion.

I think that's very true and I hope the Ulster players realise this. Sarries start the AP was helped massively by their old rivals being way out of form, or rolling over and giving up.

Sarries are scarily organised and well drilled. They are not brilliant individuals though. Trouble their set piece, break the game up, rile them, pressure them and you'll win.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 6:55 pm

The problem is Ulster tend to run out of ideas after a few phases and Sarries very organised defence won't have any trouble turning that against us and winning penalties that will break our momentum. We'll also find it hard to get outside them and bring that very talented back line into the game, just very hard to create overlaps and mismatches when playing them. They've been able to win the battle of the breakdown and smother us every time we've played them.

I'd really believe we can win this as opposed to just hoping if we had some of forwards back, but the depth is very poor in the back row and, well, Henderson is irreplaceable.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by yappysnap on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 7:21 pm

Quins won with injuries in our forwards. You just need to be physically up for it, it's a game where the whole team has to be fired up, treat it as a knock out match. Ulster have to be up for a lot of niggle too.

If Ulster aren't willing to fight for the whole 80 then they won't win.


Last edited by yappysnap on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 7:27 pm

Totally agree yappy

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

Hope the Ulster boys saw that performance from Munster. If they show the same passion, they can beat Sarries. Good luck Ulster. thumbsup

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Notch on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:21 pm

All class from Jared Payne there, great try

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by nathan on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:21 pm

Great start from ulster

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by Marshes on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:22 pm

Great start! McCloskey has to be involved for Ireland, constant danger. PAddy slotting the kick nicely as well!

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:23 pm

Excellent break by McCloskey but an excellent deft kick from Payne leads to the try. Come on Ulster.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by eirebilly on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:35 pm

That's not just a penalty, that should have been a yellow card against Ashton...

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by nathan on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:That's not just a penalty, that should have been a yellow card against Ashton...
Was certainly stupid! Great way to celebrate getting into the EPS...

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by beshocked on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:45 pm

Been pleased with the Sarries set piece but not doing enough in attack just yet. Good territory and possession but need some tries and more points.

Really nice Ulster try.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 16 Jan 2016, 3:48 pm

Sarries will be kicking themselves Very Happy

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 1: Saracens v Ulster, 16 January

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