Toulon to join the premiership?

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Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 12:31 pm

It appears that Toulon have made a very real enquiry to join the Premiership, adding that they 'would bring 'huge added value' to the league'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/12112574/Toulon-hoping-to-quit-Top-14-and-join-Aviva-Premiership.html

How on earth would this work? Surely they would have to jettison a lot of players to abide by the premiership's salary caps, marquee players, etc

What are your thoughts?

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Scottrf on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 12:33 pm

Just posturing, a middle finger up regarding salary cap. We all know French teams can't play away from home.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by rapidsnowman on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 12:44 pm

It could happen.....


.......but you would have to conquer France! Bubbly

And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 12:52 pm

rapidsnowman wrote:It could happen.....


.......but you would have to conquer France! Bubbly

And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.


What again, that would be repetitive.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by whocares on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 1:02 pm

Scottrf wrote:Just posturing, a middle finger up regarding salary cap

that's basically Mourad main concern... apart from providing comic relief to all of us... salary cap enforcement in the T14 so trying all sort of desperate measures to put pressure on the T14. Maybe he thinks the one in the AP is more "flexible"? He did say that the AP is better run and they take better "business" decisions... also mentioned that if that approach fails he's considering buying and developing an English team instead...


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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by lostinwales on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 1:05 pm

Back door European league? Top French (and a couple of Pro12) join the AP for the top division. Rejected AP teams join the Pro12? Who knows

Sort of unlikely though.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 1:29 pm

Well it would do wonders for helping Saracens and Bath with the salary cap issues. Laugh

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 1:32 pm

He'd need the AP teams to accept, the RFU and FFR to sign off plus World Rugby. Can't see all of them doing it and he'd need to sign up to the RFUs rules on England players too.

He fails to comprehend or ignores that the AP have a lower cap and his bonus system is built into the cap so its more restrictive

If it was to happen next season, Im pretty sure they'd miss out on the ERCC too as its up to the LNR/FFR who gets entered from their league which is a loss of income plus there'd be a drop in tv money

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by TightHEAD on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 2:30 pm

Early April fools surely.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by GoodinTightSpaces on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 2:53 pm

what a douche bag

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 3:03 pm

lostinwales wrote:Back door European league? Top French (and a couple of Pro12) join the AP for the top division. Rejected AP teams join the Pro12? Who knows

Sort of unlikely though.

Au contraire mon ami.

A Euro Super League (ESL) was allegedly discussed more than six years ago, when some owners/reps 'happened' to be attending the HEC draw. The initial format was five T14 + five AP + four P12 teams. The existing leagues would operate at a level below with a mechanism for Champions being promoted into the ESL.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Knowsit17 on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 3:10 pm

Takes me back to the good ol' days of England fans talking about joining the (then) Tri-Nations post-2003.

Almost certainly a show of muscle-flexing from Boudjellal. The only thing I worry about is how much the Top14 might concede to him if he continues the secessionist language.


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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 3:28 pm

There are surely enough obstacles in the way that those he wants to believe that Toulon might join the AP won't buy it, if they do they would be as well just giving him the keys and letting him run the show

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 3:35 pm

Just imagine the Toulon fans/player making their way up to Newcastle on a freezing wet and windy December evening. They will be thinking, we could have been playing in Montpellier/Perpignan/Castre but for this ********

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Heaf on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 4:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:He'd need the AP teams to accept, the RFU and FFR to sign off plus World Rugby. Can't see all of them doing it and he'd need to sign up to the RFUs rules on England players too.

He fails to comprehend or ignores that the AP have a lower cap and his bonus system is built into the cap so its more restrictive

If it was to happen next season, Im pretty sure they'd miss out on the ERCC too as its up to the LNR/FFR who gets entered from their league which is a loss of income plus there'd be a drop in tv money

he's not the only one ...

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 4:37 pm

I honestly believe a European league is inevitable within 10 years, the success of the Heineken Cup and now what ever this one is called I can never remember, and the money it generates through TV coverage and the desire to take the game to a bigger audience means it has to happen and thats coming from someone who did not want leagues of any description 30 years ago Rolling Eyes

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Golden on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 7:30 pm

Armitage might finally get selected then....

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by doctor_grey on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:38 pm

Another salary cap ignoring owner. We already have enough.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 10:52 am

Golden wrote:Armitage might finally get selected then....

Forget Armitage there is a 19 year old at The Ospreys, as good as he is now give him the rest of the season he will make the summer squad to OZ, and will be
I fixture

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 11:01 am

johnrgby wrote:
Golden wrote:Armitage might finally get selected then....

Forget Armitage there is a 19 year old at The Ospreys, as good as he is now give him the rest of the season he will make the summer squad to OZ, and will be
I fixture

You do realise Wales is a different country and Ospreys play in a different league?

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Cyril on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 11:02 am

marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
Golden wrote:Armitage might finally get selected then....

Forget Armitage there is a 19 year old at The Ospreys, as good as he is now give him the rest of the season he will make the summer squad to OZ, and will be
I fixture

You do realise Wales is a different country and Ospreys play in a different league?
It's only a matter of time before Underhill is back home.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 11:22 am


Copied from Wales on line

Ospreys teenager Sam Underhill will spark Aviva Premiership bidding war and win England call-up for Australia tour'
15:34, 21 JAN 2016 UPDATED 18:15, 21 JAN 2016
BY DUNCAN BECH
Former World Cup winner Ben Kay believes new England coach Eddie Jones will invoke the 'exceptional circumstances' rule to take Underhill on summer tour

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Sam Underhill has set tongues wagging in English rugby
Ospreys teenager Sam Underhill will become the subject of a bidding war among top Aviva Premiership clubs and should tour Australia with England this summer under the ‘exceptional circumstances’ rule.

That’s the verdict of former World Cup winner Ben Kay who believes new coach Eddie Jones will invoke the right to include a player based outside English borders for the first time to snare Underhill, something his predecessor Stuart Lancaster was so loathe to do in the case of Toulon flanker Steffan Armitage in the build-up to last year’s World Cup.

Underhill’s barnstorming performances for the Ospreys against Leinster and Clermont this month have caused a stir, but he was already on England’s radar and has been mentored by Kay’s World Cup-winning team-mate Richard Hill.

The 19-year-old flanker swapped Gloucester for Bridgend Ravens last summer to begin studying at Cardiff University, but was quickly drafted into the Ospreys’ squad before his recent form resulted in a surge of interest.

Read more: The big five selection dilemmas facing Warren Gatland as he ponders his Wales team to face Ireland

Huw Evans Picture AgencySam Underhill is brought to the ground by Sebastien Vahaamahina
Jones hinted last week that Underhill was in his future plans, but the teenager also qualifies for Scotland and the United States and will be eligible for Wales too if he completes his contract at Bridgend that expires in 2018.

Only players from the Premiership can be considered for selection by Jones, but Kay believes the Rugby Football Union will turn to their exceptional circumstances edict.

“There will definitely be a clamour from Premiership clubs trying to bring him back to England,” Kay told Press Association Sport.

“There’s a suggestion he might be involved in the summer tour and I’m sure there will be a little bit of flexibility shown by England.

“When looking at the exceptional circumstances rule, he didn’t leave Gloucester because he was chasing a pay day, instead he was going to study at Cardiff University.

Read more: Former Cardiff Blues star Owen Williams to return to the city where a spinal cord injury changed his life

Andrew Conway of Munster is tackled by Sam Underhill of Ospreys and Dan Baker of Ospreys
“Perhaps he wasn’t at the top of Premiership clubs’ wanted list when he left, but I’m sure there will be a lot of Premiership teams wanting to bring him in.

“All of this comes on the back of a couple of really good games and he’s got to maintain that form, but certainly he looks like someone who would be a huge asset to English rugby.”

Watch: Will the Ospreys make it through?

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Underhill started at openside against Leinster, outplaying Ireland’s Sean O’Brien in the process, and blindside for the visit of Clermont last Friday when he was relentless in defence.

Kay, however, believes his international future lies in the number sever jersey, a position where England lack depth.

Read more: Leigh Halfpenny to play in England after all? Toulon chief makes extraordinary bid to join Aviva Premiership

Getty ImagesNick Mullins, right, in the commentary box with Ben KayBen Kay, left, is a pundit for BT Sport
“If you were going to advise him, you’d tell him to focus on being an openside because English is awash with guys who can play six and eight, but there aren’t many sevens,” he said.

James Haskell appears to be Jones’ preferred choice at openside for the forthcoming RBS 6 Nations, but Kay views uncapped 22-year-old Jack Clifford as a better option.

“James can do that role, but personally I’d love to see Clifford in there. It wouldn’t surprise

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 12:00 pm

It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 12:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion



Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Notch on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 12:29 pm

Heard rumours a moody French-Algerian tycoon was looking to buy up a large chunk of land on the outskirts of Coventry. Suddenly it all makes sense Wink

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 12:31 pm

Notch wrote:Heard rumours a moody French-Algerian tycoon was looking to buy up a large chunk of land on the outskirts of Coventry. Suddenly it all makes sense Wink

Maybe a ground share with Wasps? Very Happy

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Sin é on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 1:15 pm

marty2086 wrote:He'd need the AP teams to accept, the RFU and FFR to sign off plus World Rugby. Can't see all of them doing it and he'd need to sign up to the RFUs rules on England players too.

He fails to comprehend or ignores that the AP have a lower cap and his bonus system is built into the cap so its more restrictive

If it was to happen next season, Im pretty sure they'd miss out on the ERCC too as its up to the LNR/FFR who gets entered from their league which is a loss of income plus there'd be a drop in tv money

It seems the LNR have told him if he doesn't like playing in the Top 14 there are plenty of teams in the ProD2 who would be happy to take Toulon's place.

it's really hard to understand how the PRL have allowed one or two owners dictate everything in the PRL.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by lostinwales on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 1:43 pm

johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

Dunno what you mean. After all Kay has experience playing at 7 for England picard

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 1:47 pm

johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

And yet the article failed to mention his presence there watching a guy play his 6th league game

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by True Raven on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

I love how before the game against Clermont barely anyone in England had heard of Sam and now everyone across the border acts like they're experts on him. People act like he's the second coming where in reality hes a good backup to Tipuric, Ardron, King and Lydiate and is a good few years away from being an international.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 2:14 pm

True Raven wrote:I love how before the game against Clermont barely anyone in England had heard of Sam and now everyone across the border acts like they're experts on him.  People act like he's the second coming where in reality hes a good backup to Tipuric, Ardron, King and Lydiate and is a good few years away from being an international.

Guys like Clifford and Kvesic are ahead of him and surely if Jones was going to break the exceptional circumstances rule it would be for Armitage

If they want to get Underhill capped and ineligible for Scotland, USA and potentially Wales then the Saxons would make more sense

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by True Raven on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 2:25 pm

Cyril wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
Golden wrote:Armitage might finally get selected then....

Forget Armitage there is a 19 year old at The Ospreys, as good as he is now give him the rest of the season he will make the summer squad to OZ, and will be
I fixture

You do realise Wales is a different country and Ospreys play in a different league?
It's only a matter of time before Underhill is back home.

Hes under contract so it will be at least 3 years!

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

Exceptional circumstance may be used to ensure he can't be targted at Wales. He ain't likely to be picked for England soon as a starter or even squad but makes sense to take any doubt of allegiance away.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 2:38 pm

True Raven wrote:Hes under contract so it will be at least 3 years!

This is not a standard situation - Underhill is a student who joined Bridgend for a decent level of game whilst studying. That he is now appearing for Ospreys does not mean he has signed a full professional contract with them.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by True Raven on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 2:52 pm

Except Steve Tandy has confirmed he's on a 3 year contract

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 2:55 pm

marty2086 wrote:f they want to get Underhill capped and ineligible for Scotland, USA and potentially Wales then the Saxons would make more sense
Usually, yes, but there are no Saxons games this season.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 3:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

And yet the article failed to mention his presence there watching a guy play his 6th league game

What article?? the match report following the game reported they were there, and no one has refuted it.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 3:30 pm

johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

And yet the article failed to mention his presence there watching a guy play his 6th league game

What article?? the match report following the game reported they were there, and no one has refuted it.

You seen a match report saying Eddie Jones was there?

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 3:34 pm

marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

And yet the article failed to mention his presence there watching a guy play his 6th league game

What article?? the match report following the game reported they were there, and no one has refuted it.

You seen a match report saying Eddie Jones was there?

Is that not what I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 3:36 pm

johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

And yet the article failed to mention his presence there watching a guy play his 6th league game

What article?? the match report following the game reported they were there, and no one has refuted it.

You seen a match report saying Eddie Jones was there?

Is that not what I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I was just confirming because he wasn't there


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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 4:06 pm

True Raven wrote:Except Steve Tandy has confirmed he's on a 3 year contract

Point is what kind of contract? If it is a full professional contract I would be surprised. In fact having checked Underhill has no contract with Ospreys, just as I suspected with bridgend. The financial value of that will be minimal and easy to buy out, shoudl Underhill wish to.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 4:08 pm

Whats the argument here?

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 4:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Whats the argument here?

Just semantics really.


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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by wayne on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 4:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill

And yet the article failed to mention his presence there watching a guy play his 6th league game

What article?? the match report following the game reported they were there, and no one has refuted it.

You seen a match report saying Eddie Jones was there?

Is that not what I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I was just confirming because he wasn't there

The 2 people that were there were Joe Lydon and his mentor Richard Hill, (the Saracens back row forward not the West Country scrum half).

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by wayne on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 5:16 pm

Just to add the same company own the vast majority of shares of both teams (OSPREYS RUGBY and BRIDGEND RAVENS)

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 5:57 pm

wayne wrote:Just to add the same company own the vast majority of shares of both teams (OSPREYS RUGBY and BRIDGEND RAVENS)

And who would that be Wayne? i thought Mike Cuddy was the major \s/holder at The Ospreys, but I have been wrong before.

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by True Raven on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 6:16 pm

Llandarcy holdings ltd own both ospreys and bridgend ravens. Mike cuddy is a shareholder but not the majority shareholder of llandarcy holdings ltd

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by doctor_grey on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 6:33 pm

johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill
Eddie was looking for some fun in Port Talbot.

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Join date : 2011-04-30

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by DaveM on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 8:39 pm

Buying Underhill out won't cost much. I'd guess Jones will tell him if he signs with an AP side for next season then he'll take him to Australia with the aim of developing him as a contender for the 7 role. Jones was open that he wanted to identify a player with potential and develop him as a 7 ove the next couple of years. It looks like he's decided Underhill is his man.

As for Toulon it seems much more likely to be posturing. The AP has become a fine league though.

DaveM

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

Post by johnrgby on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 7:01 am

doctor_grey wrote:
johnrgby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It makes a nice headline but Ben Kay isn't exactly speaking from a position of authority its his opinion
 


Jones and one of his minions were at the Ospreys/leinster game two weekends ago, can,t imagine what they were doing there if not to look at Underhill
Eddie was looking for some fun in Port Talbot.

That would not be easy, on the odd occasion i have been there, I could not find a Bar/Pub on The High St, but that was over 20 years ago

johnrgby

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Re: Toulon to join the premiership?

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