Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

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Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Kingshu on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 12:49 pm

We know the money gap between the the Pro 12 and English and French leagues is growing, and we need to attract more TV money to compete in Europe and keep our stars at home. To solve this could the Pro 12 concievenly become a 3rd regional group in Super rugby?

Benefits for Pro 12, being part of super rugby would mean bigger TV deals - sponsorship deals and would be competing against other Union controlled teams.
Cons - lots more travel, moving to a southern Hemp schedule would have pros and cons (summer rugby should increase skills, there is no football or European Rugby would increase value, but how would it effect 6 nations

Benefits for Super Rugby - Sky already pays handsomely to play games and highlights in the UK - with games being shown at UK kick off times involving British and Irish teams this TV deal would be worth a lot lot more and be more appealing to the UK market, it would break Super Rugby into the very lucrative European market, increasing TV deals, sponsorship value and oppurtunities. The increase in revenue would allow the Unions to help keep the best southern Hemp players at home and compete finically with French and English teams.

Cons - more travel, teams already go the whole way around the southern hemisphere though is Aus - UK any worse than SA or ARG?

How could it work?
Currently the set up is the 18 teams will be grouped geographically. There are two regional groups, each consisting of two conferences: the Australasian Group, with five teams in the Australian Conference and five teams in the New Zealand Conference and the South African Group, with six South African teams, one Argentinean team and one Japanese team split into a four-team Africa 1 Conference a four-team Africa 2 Conference

Therefore could easily make the Pro 12 a 3rd regional group, and split it into two conferences, (maybe Italians going to a SA conference to make it 6 Conferences of 5 teams each)

Logistics of who plays who etc can be worked out later as I don't wish this article to be bogged down in that.

So it is a possibility that the WRU, IRFU, SRU and FIR should at least investigate?

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by TJ on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 1:43 pm

NO
Cost would be huge, disruption to both hemisphere scheduling would be huge. Why would Sanzar want it?

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 1:55 pm

Can't see this as a goer. The money in rugby is in France, England and to a lesser extent South Africa. A club competition involving those three countries seems more likely. In addition they are all in same time zone.

In truth of course nether are going to happen.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Seagultaf on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 5:21 pm

No Pro12 teams in the knock out stages of the Champions Cup, hardly supports their case does it?

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 5:24 pm

As Seagulfat says, this is really poor year for the Pro12. I think this is the first time there's no representative for the Pro12/Rabo etc in he quarter finals of Europe....crazy.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Cyril on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 5:28 pm

These things go in cycles though. We had a few years of the Irish sides qualifying every year, with one or two English sides.

People always think sport will get stuck in a rut, but it always seems to find a way of changing. It's up to the Pro12 sides to lick their wounds and not blame it all on money, squad sizes or 'unfair' results of negotiations.

There is much, much, much more chance of a B & I Super League than a cross-hemisphere one.

Just look at the drama of the games today and you can see how much life is in the Euro Cup. It's just there is a different balance of sides competing at the business end at the moment. Drama, passion and excitement is all still there in spades.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Shifty on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 6:04 pm

Dear god, what would the Super XV teams do to the Welsh regions, it would be horrific!

They wouldn't want us, they need money not scroungers from the Pro12. Irish rugby has had to borrow money to stay afloat, Scottish rugby is almost dead, Welsh domestic rugby is on it's knees with interest in the sport outside the national team non existent, with player numbers dropping off alarmingly. So how is it a good idea for the teams to travel to the other side of the planet to get smashed off the park by competent rugby teams?

Sorry no, there is already complaints about the costs of going to Italy to play, never mind, South America, Africa, asia and the Pacific!

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by TJ on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 6:29 pm

actually shifty - scottish rugby is on the up admittedly from a very low point

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Notch on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 6:37 pm

It's what I've wanted for years. Just as some believe a British and Irish league is the future I dream of Ulster playing the Blue Bulls, Crusaders and Waratahs at a sold-out Ravenhill.

If Japan can be in the competition so can we. We have more money than them and better players. What they want is money and money comes through variety. Teams like ours joining will give them the shot in the arm and make their competition more value.

Meanwhile, Leinster and Munster leaving the European Cup will diminish the TV revenues for English and French teams. Not enough to damage them but it's a lovely thought isn't it?

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Notch on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 6:41 pm

This is how this would work out;

Duck is Bruce Craig and the Irish provinces are Don Draper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5N3OQklFEU


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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Shifty on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 6:43 pm

TJ wrote:actually shifty - scottish rugby is on the up admittedly from a very low point

Aside from Glasgows Pro12 win last season, bearing in mind their in the bottom area of the table now, and Scotland haven't beaten any of the big 8 countries for 3 years, can you tell me exactly how they can considered to be "on the Up"? Headscratch

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by TJ on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 7:50 pm

Improving performances of the national side over the last year , increasing attendances at pro 12 games, decent coaching team now in place for the national sides after 10 years of idiocy, semi pro level now sorted. etc etc

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by LordDowlais on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:15 pm

Notch wrote:It's what I've wanted for years. Just as some believe a British and Irish league is the future I dream of Ulster playing the Blue Bulls, Crusaders and Waratahs at a sold-out Ravenhill.

If Japan can be in the competition so can we. We have more money than them and better players. What they want is money and money comes through variety. Teams like ours joining will give them the shot in the arm and make their competition more value.

Meanwhile, Leinster and Munster leaving the European Cup will diminish the TV revenues for English and French teams. Not enough to damage them but it's a lovely thought isn't it?

We do not have more money than the Japanese.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Notch wrote:It's what I've wanted for years. Just as some believe a British and Irish league is the future I dream of Ulster playing the Blue Bulls, Crusaders and Waratahs at a sold-out Ravenhill.

If Japan can be in the competition so can we. We have more money than them and better players. What they want is money and money comes through variety. Teams like ours joining will give them the shot in the arm and make their competition more value.

Meanwhile, Leinster and Munster leaving the European Cup will diminish the TV revenues for English and French teams. Not enough to damage them but it's a lovely thought isn't it?

We do not have more money than the Japanese.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at the Sun Wolves squad then...

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:03 pm

I think there is a lot of doom and gloom from Pro12 supporters. Clearly a far higher proportion of the Pro12 teams were involved in RWC. I suspect that is a key reason why they have performed worse this season. The other factor has been some lack of foresight in Ireland in making sure they were bringing through replacements for key players who were clearly going to retire.

I would be amazed if next year there were no some Pro12 qualifiers.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Notch on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:16 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:The other factor has been some lack of foresight in Ireland in making sure they were bringing through replacements for key players who were clearly going to retire.

Leinsters only win though? The game they played all their Academy players and beat big-spending Bath who were playing for the future in the competition.

I don't think anybody expects Leinsters slide to be terminal, they have probably the most productive Youth Academy system in European Rugby.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Cyril on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:41 pm

Notch wrote:It's what I've wanted for years. Just as some believe a British and Irish league is the future I dream of Ulster playing the Blue Bulls, Crusaders and Waratahs at a sold-out Ravenhill.

If Japan can be in the competition so can we. We have more money than them and better players. What they want is money and money comes through variety. Teams like ours joining will give them the shot in the arm and make their competition more value.

Meanwhile, Leinster and Munster leaving the European Cup will diminish the TV revenues for English and French teams. Not enough to damage them but it's a lovely thought isn't it?
I have to say this made me laugh. Some may take it a bit too serious though Wink

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Notch on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:58 pm

angel

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 10:10 pm

There won't be any liaison between the Pro12 and the SH, because there is nothing in it for the SH. Just as a B&I League wouldn't work because there is nothing in it for the PRL.

The Pro12 have to realise that they need to attract more tv money off the pitch to get more competitive on it. It is paramount that the Pro12 get some sleeping giants on board, from other European countries that would have numbers the sponsors would be interested in.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Notch on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 10:53 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:There won't be any liaison between the Pro12 and the SH, because there is nothing in it for the SH. Just as a B&I League wouldn't work because there is nothing in it for the PRL.

In all honesty, this is the way it is.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by offload on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 11:13 pm

Ridiculous idea.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Kingshu on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 1:48 pm

This isn't inspired because of this years performance in Europe, TBH we all expected it a bit after a world cup year (though in 2011, the Pro 12 did well in Europe).

Its because as the The Great Aukster says we need to increase revenue to keep up.

The way I see it currently the Pro 12 is like the the Scottish league in the late 90's, the big teams were able to attract top footballers and the old firm were on a par with the Premiership sides, but the TV money eventually told and now they are on a level with the Championship.

I don't want to see a similar slide for the Pro 12 sides over the next 10 years, and a part of me knows its inevitable.

British and Irish league would be great but I can't see it.

Becoming super Rugby 3rd regional group does have benefits for both parties, a rising tide lifts all boats.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by rodders on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:09 pm

Kingshu wrote:

The way I see it currently the Pro 12 is like the the Scottish league in the late 90's, the big teams were able to attract top footballers and the old firm were on a par with the Premiership sides, but the TV money eventually told and now they are on a level with the Championship.

I don't want to see a similar slide for the Pro 12 sides over the next 10 years, and a part of me knows its inevitable.

This is where its at and this is where its going.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:19 pm

If anything european rugby will become a season long league. Structured like NFL currently is.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Exiledinborders on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:22 pm

rodders wrote:
Kingshu wrote:

The way I see it currently the Pro 12 is like the the Scottish league in the late 90's, the big teams were able to attract top footballers and the old firm were on a par with the Premiership sides, but the TV money eventually told and now they are on a level with the Championship.

I don't want to see a similar slide for the Pro 12 sides over the next 10 years, and a part of me knows its inevitable.

This is where its at and this is where its going.
There are a number of reasons for the decline in Scottish football that do not apply to Pro12 rugby; e.g. the predominance of just two clubs and massive corruption at one of those clubs.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Eejit on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

I think ideas like this serve to represent the feeling of general unease at the product the Pro12 are offering, underlined by the fact all our top clubs have unceremoniously been dumped out of the highest tier of club competition available. Now we can blame the big money boys, world cup fatigue or lack of squad depth but at the end of the day it's 80 minutes of rugby that settles things and this time round Exeter and Wasps in particular did fantastically well and deserve their places I the quarters.

As was said previously, these things swing in roundabouts and it's unfortunate for us that our league's best sides are struggling for form at the same time. Regardless, in my (albeit biased) opinion despite the pish weather the rugby the Pro12 offers is infinitely more interesting than either the Top 14 or the Aviva - it's the business side than must improve. Like Aukster said earlier "It is paramount that the Pro12 get some sleeping giants on board, from other European countries that would have numbers the sponsors would be interested in."

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Sin é on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:30 pm

Gerald Davies blames the Welsh Civil war for the poor tv & sponsorship deals.

"The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future."
- Gerald Davies, Chairman of the PRO12:

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Kingshu on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:57 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
rodders wrote:
Kingshu wrote:

The way I see it currently the Pro 12 is like the the Scottish league in the late 90's, the big teams were able to attract top footballers and the old firm were on a par with the Premiership sides, but the TV money eventually told and now they are on a level with the Championship.

I don't want to see a similar slide for the Pro 12 sides over the next 10 years, and a part of me knows its inevitable.

This is where its at and this is where its going.
There are a number of reasons for the decline in Scottish football that do not apply to Pro12 rugby; e.g. the predominance of just two clubs and massive corruption at one of those clubs.

Part but even a few years ago Arsenals share of TV money for one year alone was more than the whole Scottish premiership deal for 3 years. Those figures tell in the end.

Part the main point is alternatives need to be looked into.

The old firm are still hoping to join the Premiership, I think there are certain posters will feel the same about the regions in 10 years time.

personally being part of a global league does have plenty of positives for all parties, but also plenty of drawbacks.

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Re: Pro 12 Super Rugby conference?

Post by Notch on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:44 pm

Kingshu wrote:art but even a few years ago Arsenals share of TV money for one year alone was more than the whole Scottish premiership deal for 3 years. Those figures tell in the end.

Part the main point is alternatives need to be looked into.

The old firm are still hoping to join the Premiership, I think there are certain posters will feel the same about the regions in 10 years time.

Posters feel like that now about the regions, but why haven't Celtic and Glasgow done that already? Because the authorities- the football equivalent of the unions- won't give their permission. You can agree with that or disagree but as far as I'm aware permission for them to open talks has never been formally granted. So they have to plan realistically with that in mind.

What Celtic and Glasgow have to consider is whether them saying their league is rubbish actually undermines the ability of the other clubs in their division to sell sponsorships, season tickets and become the successful entities that would mean Celtic and Glasgow wouldn't need to move in the first place!

Sometimes it feels like some Welsh fans would ruin the Pro12 completely to make the regions into English Premiership sides. It's like if the survivors of the Titanic decided to set fire to the lifeboats in the hopes of attracting a cruise liner- in other words, unfathomably mad. Between the dark ocean and the lifeboat, I'll take the lifeboat thanks. Some hope is better than no hope.

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