Under achieving Welsh regions

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Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 5:27 pm

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How very depressing Welsh domestic rugby is, every time they play away from home they are a winning bonus point,five try certainty for the home side, domestic rugby is on it's knees in Wales, over ten years of regionalism, and this is what we have to show for it, I'm sorry, but it is just not good enough.

Cardiff Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys all out of Europe the group stages, Scarlets did not even win a game in Europe FFS. I can only imagine how far Dragons would get if they did not have half hearted French sides in their group, but no doubt normal service will resume when they play their next game away in the second tier comp.

The performances in the league are a joke as well, one team in the top six, this is poor, and I cannot see Scarlets hanging in there either, the regional concept is a joke, it is not working, the four Welsh regions are falling further and further behind every year.

I hope this is the lowest they will be, I really do, I hope next year the fact that players are not leaving will sway things, but how can they ? The same players will still be here next season, giving five tries away in Europe away from home, and scrapping it out in the league for the sixth spot, it is all very depressing, Welsh professional domestic rugby is a lame horse, if it were an animal it would be put out of it's misery by now.

It's time we were honest with ourselves, this regional experiment has failed, I do not see why we cannot go back to the clubs, and sort our own league out, we could not be any worst than we are now.

Cue the pro regional fans to come on here and start insulting me, but I do nt care anymore, I am so fed up with this whole debacle, it makes me wonder why I would even bother paying my money to watch this rubbish anymore.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 1:55 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Dropped balls isn't our problem tbh, it's our set piece.

Again, a bigger budget will not solve that.

You don't think we could get Franks and the Du Plessis brothers if we offered them 800,000 a year each? As much as I love France I doubt these players could turn down that much money. Therefore the budget would solve part of the problem, in this instance, our set piece. We've also spent more on our academy in recent years. The teams and the players coming through are better than what they were years ago.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 1:56 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:A NZ coach came in said his region were about 15 years behind the training in NZ. Why the WRU aren't taking this seriously I don't know.

Is it down to the WRU though ? 

Again, we cannot keep blaming the WRU for everything, the fact that Hammet left was surely down to the region. It should be Peter Thomas who took that seriously not the WRU, and it is the same for all the other regions as well.

Look I do not want to get into another fight with you, but that just sounds like blaming others for the regions failures. How can the coaching at the regions be the fault of the WRU ?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:A NZ coach came in said his region were about 15 years behind the training in NZ. Why the WRU aren't taking this seriously I don't know.

Is it down to the WRU though ? 

Again, we cannot keep blaming the WRU for everything, the fact that Hammet left was surely down to the region. It should be Peter Thomas who took that seriously not the WRU, and it is the same for all the other regions as well.

Look I do not want to get into another fight with you, but that just sounds like blaming others for the regions failures. How can the coaching at the regions be the fault of the WRU ?

The WRU fund and partly run the regions. They set them up too. OF COURSE it is down to the WRU - they can't form these regions and then leave them to die out. Why Hammet left though was down to the region it seems, very poor scenario that one.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The teams and the players coming through are better than what they were years ago.

Yes you are right, the players coming through now are better.

mikey_dragon wrote:
You don't think we could get Franks and the Du Plessis brothers if we offered them 800,000 a year each?

Unless they start coaching over here then no, they will not solve the problem, that would be akin to sticking a plaster over a broken bone. We do not need to buy ready made replacements, as nice as it would be, we need to be producing Franks and Du Plessis's of our own.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:02 pm

So I am lost now LD. What is the solution, in your opinion?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
The WRU fund and partly run the regions. They set them up too. OF COURSE it is down to the WRU - they can't form these regions and then leave them to die out.



The regions are independent  businesses, who they employ as coaches has nothing to do with the WRU. We must get away from this blame culture, the WRU are not to blame for everything in Welsh rugby.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by wayne on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The regions have a salary cap of 4.5 million next season, and we have the DC's.
I'm pleased that you have at least taken that on board, so if our income has not gone up this season, how do you expect us to perform any better than in previous years, and why not answer what I posted to you last night, that we are actually performing better than 10 years ago.

No doubt you'll ignore this post as you've done with everything else that is contradictory to your opinion from me on this topic

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:05 pm

LD I think those 3 would have given us a much better platform against Sale... Our set piece has been our Achilles heel for some time. If you think it isn't going to solve part of our problem then you're clueless. Yes we do need to be producing those sort of players, hence my reference to our increased academy investment and the consequences of this.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:So basically, you should admit your posts I highlighted to you were nonsense Dowlais. Because you were moaning about budgets etc and now you expect us to do better.

Risca, again always attacking and looking to win the internet. No I do not expect the regions to be going away from home and winning all the time, their respective budgets will not allow that. But what I do expect, is for them to show a bit of passion, a bit of fight, and a lot more gumption. Budgets do not dictate how you play. You do not get better handling skills and the what not with a bigger budget.

I expect Dragons to go to a side that is 4 places off the bottom in their respective league and at least give them a game. I expect a side that has players like AWJ, Justin Tuperic, Dan Biggar, to go away from home and not get five tries put passed them every time. I expect our sides to not lose every game in a tournament, I expect all our regions to get out of their groups if they were in the second tier of Europe, and I would expect to see more than one side in the top six in the league.

That is the top and bottom of it for me. I am sorry if that offends you, but that is how I see it.

Stop using moronic quotes like "trying to win the internet". It's just the same as when you write "heads in the sand" etc.

Have you ignored Sale's home form, that I mentioned to you? You only answer questions that suit you. If somebody counters you with something you can't answer, it's the usual Dowlais retort you revert to using that is "heads in the sand", "attacking", "win the internet" and assuming people take offence.

Dragons have a young side. They are missing five out of seven of their key backs. They go down to 14 within minutes and concede 17 points during that period. Why would you then expect them to "give them a game"? I don't give a monkeys about the other regions and how they are doing, so won't answer for them. I don't really understand why you do. Just worry about your own team and stop being so pigheaded that you think you can tell people what they think.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:07 pm

wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The regions have a salary cap of 4.5 million next season, and we have the DC's.
I'm pleased that you have at least taken that on board, so if our income has not gone up this season, how do you expect us to perform any better than in previous years, and why not answer what I posted to you last night, that we are actually performing better than 10 years ago.

No doubt you'll ignore this post as you've done with everything else that is contradictory to your opinion from me on this topic

Jeez, get your head out of the sand Wayne Very Happy

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The WRU fund and partly run the regions. They set them up too. OF COURSE it is down to the WRU - they can't form these regions and then leave them to die out.



The regions are independent  businesses, who they employ as coaches has nothing to do with the WRU. We must get away from this blame culture, the WRU are not to blame for everything in Welsh rugby.

So will moving back to clubs away from regions allow different owners/men in charge to pick the better coaches which are available now and not chosen or will it be up to these new owners to develop coaches which they are more capable of than the current guys in charge?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by wayne on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:10 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The regions have a salary cap of 4.5 million next season, and we have the DC's.
I'm pleased that you have at least taken that on board, so if our income has not gone up this season, how do you expect us to perform any better than in previous years, and why not answer what I posted to you last night, that we are actually performing better than 10 years ago.

No doubt you'll ignore this post as you've done with everything else that is contradictory to your opinion from me on this topic

Jeez, get your head out of the sand Wayne Very Happy
RG, I'm leaving Merthyrmawr as soon as possible Smile

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:11 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:So basically, you should admit your posts I highlighted to you were nonsense Dowlais. Because you were moaning about budgets etc and now you expect us to do better.

Risca, again always attacking and looking to win the internet. No I do not expect the regions to be going away from home and winning all the time, their respective budgets will not allow that. But what I do expect, is for them to show a bit of passion, a bit of fight, and a lot more gumption. Budgets do not dictate how you play. You do not get better handling skills and the what not with a bigger budget.

I expect Dragons to go to a side that is 4 places off the bottom in their respective league and at least give them a game. I expect a side that has players like AWJ, Justin Tuperic, Dan Biggar, to go away from home and not get five tries put passed them every time. I expect our sides to not lose every game in a tournament, I expect all our regions to get out of their groups if they were in the second tier of Europe, and I would expect to see more than one side in the top six in the league.

That is the top and bottom of it for me. I am sorry if that offends you, but that is how I see it.

Stop using moronic quotes like "trying to win the internet". It's just the same as when you write "heads in the sand" etc.

Have you ignored Sale's home form, that I mentioned to you? You only answer questions that suit you. If somebody counters you with something you can't answer, it's the usual Dowlais retort you revert to using that is "heads in the sand", "attacking", "win the internet" and assuming people take offence.

Dragons have a young side. They are missing five out of seven of their key backs. They go down to 14 within minutes and concede 17 points during that period. Why would you then expect them to "give them a game"? I don't give a monkeys about the other regions and how they are doing, so won't answer for them. I don't really understand why you do. Just worry about your own team and stop being so pigheaded that you think you can tell people what they think.

In addition to selecting an overweight out of form hooker who over our star 21 year old who has been very good in the lineout this year.

And the fact that we employed a halfarsed blitz defence against one of the most creative 10's in the NH.


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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:12 pm

wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The regions have a salary cap of 4.5 million next season, and we have the DC's.
I'm pleased that you have at least taken that on board, so if our income has not gone up this season, how do you expect us to perform any better than in previous years, and why not answer what I posted to you last night, that we are actually performing better than 10 years ago.

No doubt you'll ignore this post as you've done with everything else that is contradictory to your opinion from me on this topic


wayne as I have said, extra money will not solve the mindset the regions have, they are just surviving, they do not seem to care about the position they find themsleves in as they are not answerable to anyone. 

If Ospreys had a billion quid a season budget, it would not change their tactics, handling errors, tackling abilities. The Ospreys are happy to be the best of a bad bunch, and that just about sums the regions up at the moment, I am so disillusioned  with them it is unreal.

Anyway, perhaps we can have this same conversation next season, when Tandy is STILL picking players like Jarvis, and he is still using his banging his head against a wall tactics. Extra money will not change that.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The WRU fund and partly run the regions. They set them up too. OF COURSE it is down to the WRU - they can't form these regions and then leave them to die out.



The regions are independent  businesses, who they employ as coaches has nothing to do with the WRU. We must get away from this blame culture, the WRU are not to blame for everything in Welsh rugby.

So will moving back to clubs away from regions allow different owners/men in charge to pick the better coaches which are available now and not chosen or will it be up to these new owners to develop coaches which they are more capable of than the current guys in charge?

I don't understand how moving back to clubs makes it any easier for different men to be in charge? Whether they would want to own them if they were clubs is the question. Some say yes, others no. But as much as I am pro-regions, if someone out there willing to pump £5m a year into the dragons in exchange for calling them Newport. I would wish them well.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:19 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Have you ignored Sale's home form, that I mentioned to you? You only answer questions that suit you. If somebody counters you with something you can't answer, it's the usual Dowlais retort you revert to using that is "heads in the sand", "attacking", "win the internet" and assuming people take offence.

Here we go, been listening to the sky commentators have we ?

Sale have not lost at home for over eight months...Blah, blah, blah. We should forget that most of that eight months were inbetween seasons and a WC. Sale are eight for a reason, they are not as good as the teams above them.

Anyway, I am not arguing with you on here anymore, if you want to talk about rugby then fine, but I am done with this willy waving contest. OK

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:24 pm

No, I am not on about whatever the Sky commentators said. I have said, I looked at their results from this season and last. Their home record is good. Why can't you acknowledge that?

Your last sentence is typical of you. How am I not talking rugby? Am I talking about Coronation Street or something? There is no willy waving or contest. That is nonsensical. I am not saying something of mine is better for a start. I am talking about rugby and countering your posts. It's called debate. Debate means that people don't have to agree with everything you say. This is a rugby forum, not the gospel according to Dowlais as you seem to think that it is.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:25 pm

Also, unsurprisingly, you selectively quote again Dowlais.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So will moving back to clubs away from regions allow different owners/men in charge to pick the better coaches which are available now and not chosen or will it be up to these new owners to develop coaches which they are more capable of than the current guys in charge?

For me it cannot be any worst. The Pro12 is not up to much, I am getting a little fed up of that as well, which is a shame as I used to be really enthusiastic about it. Perhaps we could have a small domestic league that is ring fenced, with about ten teams, and see where it goes, we have already wasted over 10yrs with this regional experiment.

I will however hold my judgement until next season, and see it the DC's change the fortunes of the regions, but you cannot polish a turd after all, they will still have the same mindset.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:30 pm

Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:32 pm

RiscaGame wrote: I am talking about rugby and countering your posts. It's called debate. Debate means that people don't have to agree with everything you say. This is a rugby forum, not the gospel according to Dowlais as you seem to think that it is.

Risca, I will debate with you all day, that is what this place is for, but you are constantly trying to belittle any opinion I have, you use insulting names like moronic towards me. 

Look I welcome counter posts, but when they are typed aggressively  like when you type them, I will not stand by and take it, speak tidy with me, and I will speak tidy back. OK

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Seagultaf on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:33 pm

Saracens have just released their accounts another big loss, now £45m in the red and salary bill last season£9.8m! Puts the Welsh regions new salary cap of £4.5m into context doesn't it!

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote: I am talking about rugby and countering your posts. It's called debate. Debate means that people don't have to agree with everything you say. This is a rugby forum, not the gospel according to Dowlais as you seem to think that it is.

Risca, I will debate with you all day, that is what this place is for, but you are constantly trying to belittle any opinion I have, you use insulting names like moronic towards me. 

Look I welcome counter posts, but when they are typed aggressively  like when you type them, I will not stand by and take it, speak tidy with me, and I will speak tidy back. OK

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:36 pm

Yet, you are the one who claims people take offence laughing

I'm not being aggressive. Don't you think it is a little moronic to assume people have their heads in the sand etc, just because people (and unsurprisingly it is the majority on here) disagree with your posts?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:36 pm

Ha. think that salary includes others not just the players.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?


It might not bring better coaching, but on the other hand it might. Who is to know ? We can see how many fans turn out for the Welsh derbies, imagine we had Welsh derbies every week. I know teams like Pontypridd and Ebbw Vale would bring more travelling fans than any of the non Welsh teams in the Pro12, and that perhaps is what is needed to boost the attendances at the games.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?

Which is a point I have raised. Back to a domestic league and thus split the talent pool further. It's a good idea, I must admit.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:41 pm

Maybe the regions should take more players from lower leagues, I hear those guys are built like a brick Poopie house's and super quick.

Sounds too good to be true!!!!!!!


Last edited by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by wayne on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:43 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The regions have a salary cap of 4.5 million next season, and we have the DC's.
I'm pleased that you have at least taken that on board, so if our income has not gone up this season, how do you expect us to perform any better than in previous years, and why not answer what I posted to you last night, that we are actually performing better than 10 years ago.

No doubt you'll ignore this post as you've done with everything else that is contradictory to your opinion from me on this topic


wayne as I have said, extra money will not solve the mindset the regions have, they are just surviving, they do not seem to care about the position they find themsleves in as they are not answerable to anyone. 

If Ospreys had a billion quid a season budget, it would not change their tactics, handling errors, tackling abilities. The Ospreys are happy to be the best of a bad bunch, and that just about sums the regions up at the moment, I am so disillusioned  with them it is unreal.

Anyway, perhaps we can have this same conversation next season, when Tandy is STILL picking players like Jarvis, and he is still using his banging his head against a wall tactics. Extra money will not change that.
Well at least you answered, you're not prepared to admit that your statement that we are no better than 10 years ago is wrong even when I've shown you, if our budget increased to the level of ANY of the other countries teams in the RCC we would be a lot better and as I said in an earlier post we will qualify for the QF of next seasons RCC.
You keep on harking back to the 5 tries conceded, and as I answered last night you conveniently forget we scored 4 tries in 2 of those matches and 2 yesterday, let me just add that there is a very heated debate going on on our forum about a new DOR and the fact we do not have a DEFENCE COACH, because we don't have the money to be able to afford one at the moment.
From reports that I've heard because of the signing of Rhodri Jones, Jarvis is moving on, and personally for the best part of 3 years he has been the best we have had, don't forget Arhip had practically a whole season out with a ruptured achilles, by the looks of it this problem is being addressed first with the signing of Fia and Jones coming in, although I'm not enamoured with that signing, and to emphasise the point they are coming in because we have more money available, and if reports are true there are 4 new signings to our first team squad for next season, that includes Jones but does not include Engelbrecht who is only here until seasons end

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?

It wouldn't cost that much. Cardiff just drop the Blues, Scarlets revert to Llanelli and NGD to Newport. Although the WRU may wish to threaten to withold funding and not allow NDC players to play for the clubs (if they could?).

Can't see the Ospreys ever going back, they have built up too good a brand and are solid.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:43 pm

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:44 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?

It wouldn't cost that much. Cardiff just drop the Blues, Scarlets revert to Llanelli and NGD to Newport. Although the WRU may wish to threaten to withold funding and not allow NDC players to play for the clubs (if they could?).

Can't see the Ospreys ever going back, they have built up too good a brand and are solid.

And setting up the new league formats etc. If the changes are as simple as changing the names why would the change bring better coaching?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:45 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Yet, you are the one who claims people take offence laughing

I'm not being aggressive. Don't you think it is a little moronic to assume people have their heads in the sand etc, just because people (and unsurprisingly it is the majority on here) disagree with your posts?

So you all disagree with me, and think everything is just fine and dandy with the regions then ?

Oh well, lets just leave it as that then.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And setting up the new league formats etc. If the changes are as simple as changing the names why would the change bring better coaching?

What do you mean, changing the names ?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:48 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?


It might not bring better coaching, but on the other hand it might. Who is to know ? We can see how many fans turn out for the Welsh derbies, imagine we had Welsh derbies every week. I know teams like Pontypridd and Ebbw Vale would bring more travelling fans than any of the non Welsh teams in the Pro12, and that perhaps is what is needed to boost the attendances at the games.

the only way we are returning to clubs is if the big rebrand as Swansea Cardiff Llanelli and Newport.

The game in Wales cannot sustain 10 fully professional clubs and also compete in Europe.

However, I would love to see the WP moved to summer. That way I believe there would be more fans (as the fixtures would not clash with regions/pro teams), you could have regional fringe players and youngsters playing in it in good weather which should improve the standard or rugby, more fans should mean more money and maybe a small domestic TV deal, which if invested in better facilities and coaching creates a cycle which should constantly improve the semi pro game and, hopefullly, the standard of players who can progess to pro game.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:48 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:And setting up the new league formats etc. If the changes are as simple as changing the names why would the change bring better coaching?

What do you mean, changing the names ?

I was responding to Gavin. I did have some questions for you further up.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Well surely changing the format of the teams from regions to clubs and breaking away would cost money so it may be worse. I'm just intrigued to see why you think a change to clubs would bring better coaching?

It wouldn't cost that much. Cardiff just drop the Blues, Scarlets revert to Llanelli and NGD to Newport. Although the WRU may wish to threaten to withold funding and not allow NDC players to play for the clubs (if they could?).

Can't see the Ospreys ever going back, they have built up too good a brand and are solid.

And setting up the new league formats etc. If the changes are as simple as changing the names why would the change bring better coaching?

I don't think it would, just discussing the permeatations of a return to club branding. Ironically, as much as I and pro Gwent, I really like Black and Amber hoops for a kit design.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:49 pm

Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

No you haven't:

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

No you haven't:

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?

I am off on a WRU level 1 coaching course for coaching mini rugby - will let you know what I think thumbsup

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:59 pm

Cheers Gav.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

No you haven't:

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?


I have answered if you bother reading what I have put above, I have said I do not know, and who would ? It's not as though I have a crystal ball. 

As for the attendances question, there are very minimal fans of away teams at the games in Wales, except for the Welsh derbies, I would wager that teams closer to each other would travel in bigger numbers, I would think that there would be more fans from Neath at the Liberty Stadium than Glasgow fans, or more fans from Ebbw Vale at RP than from Connacht, thus the crowds in Wales would be bigger. 

I could be wrong though, but I am just going on how it used to be.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Extra money will not solve the mindset the regions have, they are just surviving, they do not seem to care about the position they find themsleves in... The Ospreys are happy to be the best of a bad bunch

You keep making these assertions and they're completely baseless. No one associated with the regions is happy with them being also-rans. Just because we're not winning every game doesn't mean we're not trying to win every game.


Last edited by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by wayne on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:06 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

No you haven't:

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?

I am off on a WRU level 1 coaching course for coaching mini rugby - will let you know what I think thumbsup
Good for you Gav, you'll really enjoy it if it is anything like the courses I took in the 70s thumbsup

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by eirebilly on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:07 pm

Jeebus, the wolfpack mentality is alive and well...

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Seagultaf on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. think that salary includes others not just the players.
How much is spent on non playing staff, 10%, 20%? Can't be more surely, still double the £3.5m the Welsh Regions are currently on and way more than the raised cap next season. Looks to be a lot more that the supposed English salary cap also!

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The WRU fund and partly run the regions. They set them up too. OF COURSE it is down to the WRU - they can't form these regions and then leave them to die out.



The regions are independent  businesses, who they employ as coaches has nothing to do with the WRU. We must get away from this blame culture, the WRU are not to blame for everything in Welsh rugby.

You must have missed this, Dowlais:

Stone Motif wrote:Welsh coaches were a requirement of the previous PA weren't they? Another sh7t sandwich we can thank the Roger Lewis Catering Co for serving up

And although now we're free to appoint non-Welsh coaches, a) I'm pretty sure the WRU have to approve them, and b) the quality of coach we can bring in will be directly linked to how much - or how little - money we can offer them.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:10 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Extra money will not solve the mindset the regions have, they are just surviving, they do not seem to care about the position they find themsleves in... The Ospreys are happy to be the best of a bad bunch

You keep making these assertions and they're completely baseless. No one associated with the regions is happy with them being also-rans. Just because we're not winning every game doesn't mean we're not trying to win every game.
 

How are they baseless ? Dragons have been at the wrong end of the table for over a decade, and nothing looks like changing, Scarlets just lost every game in Europe, Ospreys have gone from a top four side to a bottom 4 side, Cardiff Blues have imploded season upon season for the last 5 or 6 years, and none of them are showing signs of improvement, so no, the claim is not baseless.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:11 pm

eirebilly wrote:Jeebus, the wolfpack mentality is alive and well...

Funny that Whistle

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

No you haven't:

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?


I have answered if you bother reading what I have put above, I have said I do not know, and who would ? It's not as though I have a crystal ball. 

As for the attendances question, there are very minimal fans of away teams at the games in Wales, except for the Welsh derbies, I would wager that teams closer to each other would travel in bigger numbers, I would think that there would be more fans from Neath at the Liberty Stadium than Glasgow fans, or more fans from Ebbw Vale at RP than from Connacht, thus the crowds in Wales would be bigger. 

I could be wrong though, but I am just going on how it used to be.

Ah I get you. You have no idea what the problem or solution is but would just prefer clubs to regions.

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Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

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