Under achieving Welsh regions

Page 4 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 5:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

How very depressing Welsh domestic rugby is, every time they play away from home they are a winning bonus point,five try certainty for the home side, domestic rugby is on it's knees in Wales, over ten years of regionalism, and this is what we have to show for it, I'm sorry, but it is just not good enough.

Cardiff Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys all out of Europe the group stages, Scarlets did not even win a game in Europe FFS. I can only imagine how far Dragons would get if they did not have half hearted French sides in their group, but no doubt normal service will resume when they play their next game away in the second tier comp.

The performances in the league are a joke as well, one team in the top six, this is poor, and I cannot see Scarlets hanging in there either, the regional concept is a joke, it is not working, the four Welsh regions are falling further and further behind every year.

I hope this is the lowest they will be, I really do, I hope next year the fact that players are not leaving will sway things, but how can they ? The same players will still be here next season, giving five tries away in Europe away from home, and scrapping it out in the league for the sixth spot, it is all very depressing, Welsh professional domestic rugby is a lame horse, if it were an animal it would be put out of it's misery by now.

It's time we were honest with ourselves, this regional experiment has failed, I do not see why we cannot go back to the clubs, and sort our own league out, we could not be any worst than we are now.

Cue the pro regional fans to come on here and start insulting me, but I do nt care anymore, I am so fed up with this whole debacle, it makes me wonder why I would even bother paying my money to watch this rubbish anymore.

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down


Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by eirebilly on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:12 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Jeebus, the wolfpack mentality is alive and well...

Funny that Whistle

How is it funny, doesn't really help for balanced debating and turns people away from threads.

eirebilly

Posts : 20239
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 46
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:13 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. think that salary includes others not just the players.
How much is spent on non playing staff, 10%, 20%? Can't be more surely, still double the £3.5m the Welsh Regions are currently on and way more than the raised cap next season. Looks to be a lot more that the supposed English salary cap also!

I haven't looked at the detail but seeing as the Aviva have buried salary cap investigations I doubt that Saracens are going to announce they have spent that.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:13 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The WRU fund and partly run the regions. They set them up too. OF COURSE it is down to the WRU - they can't form these regions and then leave them to die out.



The regions are independent  businesses, who they employ as coaches has nothing to do with the WRU. We must get away from this blame culture, the WRU are not to blame for everything in Welsh rugby.

You must have missed this, Dowlais:

Stone Motif wrote:Welsh coaches were a requirement of the previous PA weren't they? Another sh7t sandwich we can thank the Roger Lewis Catering Co for serving up

And although now we're free to appoint non-Welsh coaches, a) I'm pretty sure the WRU have to approve them, and b) the quality of coach we can bring in will be directly linked to how much - or how little - money we can offer them.


So what are you saying ? It's the WRU's fault that the regions are doing so rubbish ?

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Extra money will not solve the mindset the regions have, they are just surviving, they do not seem to care about the position they find themsleves in... The Ospreys are happy to be the best of a bad bunch

You keep making these assertions and they're completely baseless. No one associated with the regions is happy with them being also-rans. Just because we're not winning every game doesn't mean we're not trying to win every game.
 

How are they baseless ? Dragons have been at the wrong end of the table for over a decade, and nothing looks like changing, Scarlets just lost every game in Europe, Ospreys have gone from a top four side to a bottom 4 side, Cardiff Blues have imploded season upon season for the last 5 or 6 years, and none of them are showing signs of improvement, so no, the claim is not baseless.

Give me strength...

The baseless bit is you claiming that the regions are happy with it.

Luckless Pedestrian

Posts : 21211
Join date : 2011-02-01
Age : 38
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I will however hold my judgement until next season, and see it the DC's change the fortunes of the regions, but you cannot polish a turd after all, they will still have the same mindset.

You couldn't even reserve judgement until the end of the sentence!


Last edited by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

Luckless Pedestrian

Posts : 21211
Join date : 2011-02-01
Age : 38
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:18 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Ah I get you. You have no idea what the problem or solution is but would just prefer clubs to regions.

You could not be further from the truth with that statement. I know what the problems are, the regions are doing rubbish, yet they answer to nobody. 

I love going to watch the regions, I do it most weekends, I am just so disillusioned with the inept performances away from home, we now find ourselves in the same boat as the Italians, a guaranteed five points away from home. Am I not allowed to have concerns ? 

No I do not have the answers, if I did I would not be slogging my nuts off trying to run a business, all I am saying is, would clubs be any worst than what the regions are now ?

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:20 pm

What business allows you to spend your whole life on here?

TightHEAD

Posts : 1640
Join date : 2014-09-25
Location : Richmond

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:21 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I love going to watch the regions, I do it most weekends, I am just so disillusioned with the inept performances away from home, we now find ourselves in the same boat as the Italians, a guaranteed five points away from home.

This is another lie you keep repeating.

Luckless Pedestrian

Posts : 21211
Join date : 2011-02-01
Age : 38
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:22 pm

TightHEAD wrote:What business allows you to spend your whole life on here?


My own.

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:What business allows you to spend your whole life on here?


My own.

Do you run an Escort agency?

There is absolutely no call to slander someone in this way. It ends now- this thread has become increasingly belligerent and it may be locked if it gets any worse

TightHEAD

Posts : 1640
Join date : 2014-09-25
Location : Richmond

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by eirebilly on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:26 pm

There is simply no call for that TightHEAD. Counter the points, not the poster.

Another thread ruined.

eirebilly

Posts : 20239
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 46
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:27 pm

Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:28 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I love going to watch the regions, I do it most weekends, I am just so disillusioned with the inept performances away from home, we now find ourselves in the same boat as the Italians, a guaranteed five points away from home.

This is another lie you keep repeating.


Am I ?

Ospreys have leaked over four tries every game they have played away this season.

Scarlets have leaked over four tries in every away game bar one this season, but still lost that one game.

Dragons have leaked over 4 tries in every game away from home bar one this season. Well done on their win away to Pau. OK

Cardiff have leaked over 4 tries in every away game bar one this season, but still lost that one game.

So yes, the regions are a soft touch away from home. OK

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:29 pm

eirebilly wrote:There is simply no call for that TightHEAD. Counter the points, not the poster.

Another thread ruined.


Thats TightHead for you. Rolling Eyes

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:30 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by exile jack on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:30 pm

Lord Dowlais,i was at the game with Biarritz 6 years ago and in no way could the O's performance then be compared with the tosh served up yesterday.The O's coaching team confuse effort with achievement.They are not achieving.They are being passed by.I note Seagultaf's point about the financial shenanigans in the AP/Top 14(over which a murky veil has been drawn in the AP).It's also good that 4 new players may be coming to Ospreylia but with the current coaching set up what confidence can there be they"ll be a Matavesi/Arhip rather than a Steenkamp/Roberts.If the coaching is not up to snuff we could have Savea/Whitelock and it wouldn't make any difference.Amongst the highlights of Ospreylia coaching are the use of flankers as locks and the Garryowen as a primary attacking weapon in the opponents 22.The O's tactical kicking yesterday led directly to 2 Exeter converted tries.There are many more examples.

exile jack

Posts : 241
Join date : 2016-01-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:32 pm

eirebilly wrote:There is simply no call for that TightHEAD. Counter the points, not the poster.

Another thread ruined.

But this thread is nothing new, it been done to death, three of the Regions will never work as they are not true regions.

TightHEAD

Posts : 1640
Join date : 2014-09-25
Location : Richmond

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I love going to watch the regions, I do it most weekends, I am just so disillusioned with the inept performances away from home, we now find ourselves in the same boat as the Italians, a guaranteed five points away from home.

This is another lie you keep repeating.


Am I ?

Ospreys have leaked over four tries every game they have played away this season.

Scarlets have leaked over four tries in every away game bar one this season, but still lost that one game.

Dragons have leaked over 4 tries in every game away from home bar one this season. Well done on their win away to Pau. OK

Cardiff have leaked over 4 tries in every away game bar one this season, but still lost that one game.

So yes, the regions are a soft touch away from home. OK

But not a guaranteed 5 points, which is what you said. Even though you've narrowed the criteria to just Europe, it's still untrue.

Luckless Pedestrian

Posts : 21211
Join date : 2011-02-01
Age : 38
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:39 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

But how does that affect how good those (now) clubs are?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by wayne on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:41 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
eirebilly wrote:There is simply no call for that TightHEAD. Counter the points, not the poster.

Another thread ruined.

But this thread is nothing new, it been done to death, three of the Regions will never work as they are not true regions.
Now you're for it Doh

wayne

Posts : 2657
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:59 pm

exile jack wrote:Lord Dowlais,i was at the game with Biarritz 6 years ago and in no way could the O's performance then be compared with the tosh served up yesterday.The O's coaching team confuse effort with achievement.They are not achieving.They are being passed by.I note Seagultaf's point about the financial shenanigans in the AP/Top 14(over which a murky veil has been drawn in the AP).It's also good that 4 new players may be coming to Ospreylia but with the current coaching set up what confidence can there be they"ll be a Matavesi/Arhip rather than a Steenkamp/Roberts.If the coaching is not up to snuff we could have Savea/Whitelock and it wouldn't make any difference.Amongst the highlights of Ospreylia coaching are the use of flankers as locks and the Garryowen as a primary attacking weapon in the opponents 22.The O's tactical kicking yesterday led directly to 2 Exeter converted tries.There are many more examples.

they were galatico's 5/6 years ago and didnt win anything in Europe due to poor coaching.

GavinDragon

Posts : 2487
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 30
Location : Monmouthshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Coleman on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:00 pm

Clubs are not the way to go. I'm shocked that we are expanding the Prem to 16 teams. We need to reduce the teams in the Prem and move it to a summer season. The SANZAR teams all have an out of season second tier for their best and brightest to develop in. Prem Rugby in the summer with 8/9 teams. Don't ask me about the lower tiers. I still play and when it comes up people would much rather be playing in July and Aug than Dec and Jan.

LD raised the issue of coaching and i do agree. Some of the coaching is inept. Someone made the point about James getting released by Exeter and becoming a force at P12 level but i'd counter that with Dolman who couldn't get a look in at a region becoming a fine player and looking heads above D. Evans who some call to be in the Welsh squad. Our coaching is behind the time at the moment. Our school system is dire and our academies are losing players every season to English private schools.

Some of the issues are Union controlled. Other are regional. Both need to pull their thumbs out.

Coleman

Posts : 1554
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Cardiff

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Stone Motif on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:05 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
eirebilly wrote:There is simply no call for that TightHEAD. Counter the points, not the poster.

Another thread ruined.

But this thread is nothing new, it been done to death, three of the Regions will never work as they are not true regions.

None of them are regions, they are pro teams.

Stone Motif

Posts : 1884
Join date : 2012-03-26
Location : Gwent Region

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Stone Motif on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

But how does that affect how good those (now) clubs are?

Compare if you will he average home crowd of say Sale and the NGD

Stone Motif

Posts : 1884
Join date : 2012-03-26
Location : Gwent Region

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:17 pm

Coleman wrote:Clubs are not the way to go. I'm shocked that we are expanding the Prem to 16 teams. We need to reduce the teams in the Prem and move it to a summer season. The SANZAR teams all have an out of season second tier for their best and brightest to develop in. Prem Rugby in the summer with 8/9 teams. Don't ask me about the lower tiers. I still play and when it comes up people would much rather be playing in July and Aug than Dec and Jan.

LD raised the issue of coaching and i do agree. Some of the coaching is inept. Someone made the point about James getting released by Exeter and becoming a force at P12 level but i'd counter that with Dolman who couldn't get a look in at a region becoming a fine player and looking heads above D. Evans who some call to be in the Welsh squad. Our coaching is behind the time at the moment. Our school system is dire and our academies are losing players every season to English private schools.

Some of the issues are Union controlled. Other are regional. Both need to pull their thumbs out.

Completely agree.

Another note on summer rugby. The under 10's I coach haven't played since beginning of November due to waterlogged pitches.


GavinDragon

Posts : 2487
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 30
Location : Monmouthshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:20 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Coleman wrote:Clubs are not the way to go. I'm shocked that we are expanding the Prem to 16 teams. We need to reduce the teams in the Prem and move it to a summer season. The SANZAR teams all have an out of season second tier for their best and brightest to develop in. Prem Rugby in the summer with 8/9 teams. Don't ask me about the lower tiers. I still play and when it comes up people would much rather be playing in July and Aug than Dec and Jan.

LD raised the issue of coaching and i do agree. Some of the coaching is inept. Someone made the point about James getting released by Exeter and becoming a force at P12 level but i'd counter that with Dolman who couldn't get a look in at a region becoming a fine player and looking heads above D. Evans who some call to be in the Welsh squad. Our coaching is behind the time at the moment. Our school system is dire and our academies are losing players every season to English private schools.

Some of the issues are Union controlled. Other are regional. Both need to pull their thumbs out.

Completely agree.

Another note on summer rugby. The under 10's I coach haven't played since beginning of November due to waterlogged pitches.


I agree with that, it has to be looked at and explored as it can only benefit us as a whole in the NH.

TightHEAD

Posts : 1640
Join date : 2014-09-25
Location : Richmond

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Coleman on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:32 pm

Clubs are all looking to invest in 3G pitches but they're expensive. Summer rugby is a no brainer. You don't need fancy 3G pitches or flood lights most of the time. I dare say player numbers would go up as well.

Coleman

Posts : 1554
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Cardiff

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 5:03 pm

Coleman wrote:Clubs are all looking to invest in 3G pitches but they're expensive. Summer rugby is a no brainer. You don't need fancy 3G pitches or flood lights most of the time. I dare say player numbers would go up as well.

I really think it is a way of invigorating the welsh premiership as well. Would you rather visit EXP in January or June?

GavinDragon

Posts : 2487
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 30
Location : Monmouthshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 5:19 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

But how does that affect how good those (now) clubs are?

Compare if you will he average home crowd of say Sale and the NGD

Yeah...

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 5:24 pm

Sale Sharks - 5,567 (15/16)

Not sure of ours but I would wager 4.5k so far.

GavinDragon

Posts : 2487
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 30
Location : Monmouthshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 5:27 pm

In fact, for completeness

Harlequins 25,191

Leicester Tigers 21,440

London Irish 14,264

London Wasps 13,828

Saracens 16,961

Norrthampton Saints 16,382

Exeter Chiefs 10,746

Gloucester13,340

Bath 13,257

Worcester Warriors 8,916

Newcastle Falcons 5984

Sale Sharks5,567


Last edited by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : My incompetence at copy and pasting)

GavinDragon

Posts : 2487
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 30
Location : Monmouthshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Coleman on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 6:33 pm

Are we sure that Falcons attendance figure is correct? I thought Kingston Park only held 10k.

Coleman

Posts : 1554
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Cardiff

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 6:52 pm

No it wasn't. That was there total home attendance to date

GavinDragon

Posts : 2487
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 30
Location : Monmouthshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by MonkeyOwain12 on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 12:45 am

Coleman,

I can tell you with 100% clarity, that not all of the SANZAR unions play summer rugby.
There is absolutely no summer rugby competition here in Australia, nor in New Zealand...bar touch competitions. A very different game.

However, the better state of pitches goes a long way in developing skillset. But moreover, it's the philosophy of playing rugby, using the ball and manipulating defences. It's a very different mentality of enjoyment and going out to win.

As for the regions...They're simply not regions. We have four organisations that are fed by clubs in their jurisdiction. The emotion of the move to regional rugby is now redundant...we've moved on.
There is a real opportunity to create something special with the Welsh Prem and moving it to the summer is very interesting. The freeing up of better players and the opportunity of a more expansive, skilful game is particularly interesting.

MonkeyOwain12

Posts : 161
Join date : 2011-04-29
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 6:08 am

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:Coleman,

I can tell you with 100% clarity, that not all of the SANZAR unions play summer rugby.
There is absolutely no summer rugby competition here in Australia, nor in New Zealand...bar touch competitions. A very different game.

However, the better state of pitches goes a long way in developing skillset. But moreover, it's the philosophy of playing rugby, using the ball and manipulating defences. It's a very different mentality of enjoyment and going out to win.

As for the regions...They're simply not regions. We have four organisations that are fed by clubs in their jurisdiction. The emotion of the move to regional rugby is now redundant...we've moved on.
There is a real opportunity to create something special with the Welsh Prem and moving it to the summer is very interesting. The freeing up of better players and the opportunity of a more expansive, skilful game is particularly interesting.

Have we, there is still a huge amount of resentment in certain areas to the set ups at Cardiff and Newport.

bedfordwelsh
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 9934
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 49

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 6:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

Again though what did those clubs achieve on the European stage, and were the crowds regularly that bigger week in week out?

bedfordwelsh
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 9934
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 49

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Notch on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 6:25 am

As mentioned above, this thread is increasingly belligerent and some posters need to take a step back from being overly personal. Impassioned debate is fine. Heated arguments can sometimes be fine- calling someone a pimp is not acceptable on here and won't be tolerated.

Thanks for your understanding. Now... tell me why the Dragons are rubbish again? Wink

Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 28
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 7:19 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?

More money can bring in better coaches, and players, therefore improving the set up. It's worked for Sarries, Toulon, most English and French teams. Why LD can't fathom this I don't know. I'm awaiting the generic reply of "money won't solve the region's problems" - for the last time LD yes, it will begin to solve the region's problems.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 4944
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 7:22 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok, I have answered your question then.

No you haven't:

Why would it bring better coaching LD? Do you feel that better available coaches aren't being picked? Do they not exist and need to be developed; if it's the latter why would clubs be better at this?

Are you moving away from saying the regions are failing from coaching and it's actually not enough fans at games? Would getting them at the ground drive down tv numbers and revenue?

Typical LD laughing

mikey_dragon

Posts : 4944
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 7:28 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Extra money will not solve the mindset the regions have, they are just surviving, they do not seem to care about the position they find themsleves in... The Ospreys are happy to be the best of a bad bunch

You keep making these assertions and they're completely baseless. No one associated with the regions is happy with them being also-rans. Just because we're not winning every game doesn't mean we're not trying to win every game.
 

How are they baseless ? Dragons have been at the wrong end of the table for over a decade, and nothing looks like changing, Scarlets just lost every game in Europe, Ospreys have gone from a top four side to a bottom 4 side, Cardiff Blues have imploded season upon season for the last 5 or 6 years, and none of them are showing signs of improvement, so no, the claim is not baseless.

Numerous people have responded to you on this across different threads. It is completely and utterly baseless unless you're reading the minds of the fans, players, coaches, etc. I don't understand how you can continue to ignore what people are saying and act this stupid these last few days?

mikey_dragon

Posts : 4944
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 7:40 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

Again though what did those clubs achieve on the European stage, and were the crowds regularly that bigger week in week out?

There were scores exceeding 70-100 points put on the old clubs, so they achieved nothing and actually did worse than what we have now. No they weren't. LD is wrong again.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 4944
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 9:10 am

4 post directed straight at me by mikey_dragon on the trot. Rolling Eyes

Notch has already red inked this thread. mikey, please do not spoil this thread as you have done to others.

Instead of constantly showing everyone how wrong I am, why cant you contribute something positive ?

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 9:36 am

So how do bigger crowds improve the quality on the pitch LD?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:01 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So how do bigger crowds improve the quality on the pitch LD?


Better atmosphere I suppose. Although we need a radical overhaul of our coaching at the regions, but with better atmospheres it usually makes for a better game, the players feed off the crowd, and with bigger crowds comes more money, more money could mean better coaches, it's all cyclical.

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:04 am

As I said in your new thread, probably less money actually. And seeing as you thought that the Du Plessis brotehrs et al wouldn't affect the quality of teams not sure it would matter.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:10 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:As I said in your new thread, probably less money actually. And seeing as you thought that the Du Plessis brotehrs et al wouldn't affect the quality of teams not sure it would matter.


I did not say those player would not affect the quality though did I. I said we should be producing those players of our own. Also with the coaches we have at the regions, we could have the full All Blacks team and it would be the same banging your head against the wall tactics. 

You know what, I think you should refrain from communicating with me, because you are just trying to make me bite all the time, I swear if I said today was Tuesday, you would find a way to counter it.

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:14 am

Well I did try to ask on the coaches thing but you've already said you don't know if there are any quality coaches available so even if there was more money (which I don't think there would be) you would end up diluting those coaches over more teams wouldn't you?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10489
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:39 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not being very good is surely the symptom rather than the cause LD. What would be different under clubs really?


Bigger crowds. Fingers Crossed

Again though what did those clubs achieve on the European stage, and were the crowds regularly that bigger week in week out?

There were scores exceeding 70-100 points put on the old clubs, so they achieved nothing and actually did worse than what we have now. No they weren't. LD is wrong again.

MD,

tell me about it Toulouse put 108 on Ebbw though we did beat them 19-11 a month later back at ECP, think I can just about remember the night Wink

bedfordwelsh
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 9934
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 49

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Coleman on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 11:05 am

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:Coleman,

I can tell you with 100% clarity, that not all of the SANZAR unions play summer rugby.
There is absolutely no summer rugby competition here in Australia, nor in New Zealand...bar touch competitions. A very different game.

However, the better state of pitches goes a long way in developing skillset. But moreover, it's the philosophy of playing rugby, using the ball and manipulating defences. It's a very different mentality of enjoyment and going out to win.

As for the regions...They're simply not regions. We have four organisations that are fed by clubs in their jurisdiction. The emotion of the move to regional rugby is now redundant...we've moved on.
There is a real opportunity to create something special with the Welsh Prem and moving it to the summer is very interesting. The freeing up of better players and the opportunity of a more expansive, skilful game is particularly interesting.

I thought that NZ had the NPC and Aus has the NRC. They may not be summer rugby but they run out of season to the top tier comp (Super Rugby) my point was this was the best way to go with the Prem and maybe grass root as a whole. Something needs to change as other than the Six Nations and a couple of thr AI's there is a real disconnect with rugby and the Welsh public. Teams are on their knees. A lot of clubs have lot their 3rd and second teams and some a really struggling to put out a 1st XV.

Coleman

Posts : 1554
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Cardiff

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by MonkeyOwain12 on Tue 26 Jan 2016, 12:12 pm

Fair enough, you hear summer rugby, I think of this time of year.

Both competitions mentioned have slight crossovers. The ITM cup with Super Rugby (finalist dependant) but the NRC is a new animal entirely.
Crossovers with Shute Shield and the other big city comps, again due to finals.
I do agree that there's an opportunity to integrate some players from the 'regions' in to the Welsh Prem.
The success of the ITM Cup is based on regional rivalry, historic match ups etc. I can see the Welsh Prem being similar. Or at least the potential for it to be similar.



MonkeyOwain12

Posts : 161
Join date : 2011-04-29
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

Re: Under achieving Welsh regions

Post by Sponsored content Today at 3:52 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum