No prospect of eastern Europe joining in 6 Nations

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 12:24 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/six-nations-2016-no-prospect-of-eastern-europe-joining-in-best-tournament-a6840196.html#commentsDiv

Way to crush all hope for other nations in Europe. Whats the point in even developing rugby in other European countries?

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 1:21 pm

No it hasn't been answered, you have avoided telling us where the money comes from to fund your fantasy leagues and you continually avoid other questions too then accuse everyone else of be against progress

In the time it took to type that post, avoid the question and insult me you could have answered the question but you chose the childish approach instead.

I have actually provided a potential solution yesterday but that was followed up by insults again from you yesterday

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Post by Rowanbi on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 1:33 pm

Maybe you missed this post, among countless others:

The suggestion I've made is simply for the tier 1 nations to commit to a single fixture per season against a tier 2 regional neighbour with a view to helping develop the international game. This type of exposure is absolutely necessary for the tier 2 nations to develope, as I've already demonstrated with reference to Argentina's rise. It could be achieved quite seamlessly and only requires a minor adjustment in terms of priorities. There are gaps in the calendar and less meaningful fixtures that could be replaced, and I've also suggested more than once that room could be made for Georgia and Romania, specifically, if NZ & Australia were prepared to take up the slack with the Pacific nations.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 1:37 pm

You ain't answering the questions there.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 1:38 pm

That doesn't answer the question, that was your previous idea now you have the AIs scrapped altogether and the SH teams staying home so how do you fill that gap?

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Post by Rowanbi on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 4:49 pm

No, you've misunderstood again. Not much I can do about that, lads.
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Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 4:53 pm

Rowanbi wrote:No, you've misunderstood again. Not much I can do about that, lads.

Whats there to misunderstand?

Rowanbi wrote:The schedule you quoted is part of a hypothetical program for inter-tier fixtures between regional rivals. That would exclude SH teams in Europe during the Autumn Tour

I think you've lost track of you're own argument, so now the SH teams aren't excluded?

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Post by Rowanbi on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:02 pm

That would exclude SH teams in Europe during the Autumn Tour

Not so. It's obviously a separate issue.
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Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:07 pm

Rowanbi wrote: That would exclude SH teams in Europe during the Autumn Tour

Not so. It's obviously a separate issue.

How is the AIs a separate issue? The SH teams make big money from them as do the NH teams, so how is excluding the SH teams from one of their biggest paydays separate from finding extra income to fill the gap in being excluded? picard

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Post by Rowanbi on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:10 pm

They're not excluded. They are a separate issue. You misunderstood and got confused.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm

Still avoiding the questions Rowanbi. At least have a go.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:45 pm

Then why dont you explain

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Post by Rowanbi on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 6:34 pm

Sure. Wait right there. I'll explain again shortly.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 7:02 pm

Acting like a pr!ck isn't going to divert away from you being unable to answer some very very basic questions.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 7:21 pm

Rowanbi wrote:Sure. Wait right there. I'll explain again shortly.

What do you mean explain again? You never explained to begin with, the time you've spent avoiding answering and being condescending could have explained it all

That is assuming you can grasp your own argument

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 15 Apr 2016, 8:32 pm

Rowanbi wrote:They're not excluded. They are a separate issue. You misunderstood and got confused.

That would be a separate inclusive issue then, the perfect recipee for confusion and misunderstanding.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 11:42 am

I think we have a few guys on this forum who are stuck in the previous century, don't want to see anything change, don't want the tier 1 nations playing anyone else, and don't want the Rugby World Cup going anywhere but the 6 Nations and Australasia. In this manner they will keep the pond nice and small for the big fish to bask in.
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Post by marty2086 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:05 pm

picard

I think you need to take the 0 out of your age

Disagreeing with you does not mean adverse to progress, progress can come in many shapes and forms you'll learn as you grow up.

If you cant answer a simple question why bother?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:50 pm

I take it by Rowanbi's inability to answer he/she is starting to realise the issues.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 7:33 pm

No, it's just about thinking progressively and coming up with innovative ideas to develop the international game. Let's face it, the British and Kiwis have always been the most resistant in this department, perhaps because they have the most to lose.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 7:48 pm

You're a Kiwi so not everyone is alike but rather than avoid why not answer the questions.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:45 pm

I'm not a Kiwi, sorry to disappoint you. I did grow up there, but that wasn't my choice, and I don't regard myself as a New Zealander, which is.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:46 pm

I love this ridiculous notion that the top nations somehow fear Georgia, they'll get routinely mauled for the foreseeable future.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:48 pm

They would if thrown straight into the 6 Nations tomorrow, agreed. That's why I'm advocating for increased exposure to that level of rugby through regular friendly matches. That was how the tier 1 nations brought Argentina and Italy up to speed, and in the latter case it was a very deliberate policy.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:50 pm

I am very surprised that Bobby Skindstat a=had not been coach of SA to be honest.

He was one of the best players that SA has ever produced.

Any one know what he is doing these days?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:52 pm

Your idea falls down at the first hurdle, in one off games the tier 1 nations would put out a development team, how have you not managed to grasp that yet.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:54 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I am very surprised that Bobby Skindstat a=had not been coach of SA to be honest.

He was one of the best players that SA has ever produced.

Any one know what he is doing these days?  

Are you sure you're on the right thread? Erm
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:00 pm

Rowanbi wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I am very surprised that Bobby Skindstat a=had not been coach of SA to be honest.

He was one of the best players that SA has ever produced.

Any one know what he is doing these days?  

Are you sure you're on the right thread? Erm


NO picard I am not on the right thread. Doh

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:06 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Your idea falls down at the first hurdle, in one off games the tier 1 nations would put out a development team, how have you not managed to grasp that yet.

Provided it were a test match, it wouldn't matter. How have you not managed to grasp that fact yet?

As discussed earlier, Georgia tend to send out a development team themselves when playing non-test opposition. If tier 1 teams sent a test team, on the other hand, regardless how weak, the Eastern Europeans would do likewise and play their hearts out. It worked for Argentina, and it worked for Italy. It could most certainly work for Georgia too.

I am not on the right thread.

That's a relief. I was awfully confused there for a moment...
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:11 pm

Rowanbi wrote:I'm not a Kiwi, sorry to disappoint you. I did grow up there, but that wasn't my choice, and I don't regard myself as a New Zealander, which is.

What nationality are you?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:12 pm

And can you please answer all the questions you've been dodging Rowanbi?

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:14 pm

What nationality are you?

Sorry, thought I'd explained it before (maybe it was another forum). Hong Kong born, NZ raised, ancestry from all parts but not NZ - though I now have Maori and Pacific Island nieces. Cool

I  am very surprised that Bobby Skindstat a=had not been coach of SA to be honest.


Great player, btw, but wasn't he a bit psycho? Has he coached at club or provincial level yet?
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:17 pm

Rowanbi wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Your idea falls down at the first hurdle, in one off games the tier 1 nations would put out a development team, how have you not managed to grasp that yet.

Provided it were a test match, it wouldn't matter. How have you not managed to grasp that fact yet?

As discussed earlier, Georgia tend to send out a development team themselves when playing non-test opposition. If tier 1 teams sent a test team, on the other hand, regardless how weak, the Eastern Europeans would do likewise and play their hearts out. It worked for Argentina, and it worked for Italy. It could most certainly work for Georgia too.


Of course it would matter, there is very little benefit to be had for the tier 1 team so it's a pointless exercise, Georgia wouldn't get much out of playing a developmental side. You genuinely are clueless.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:25 pm

Georgia wouldn't get much out of playing a below-strength test team from a tier 1 nation, you say? That's odd, because below-strenth test teams from the Home Unions often play tier 2 teams during the Lions tours and these are taken very seriously by the host nations, with big celebrations if they win (Japan & Canada v Wales & Scotland) spring to mind. You really are afraid of progress, aren't you Rolling Eyes
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:27 pm

Why bother affecting overall income and not just focus on Saxons then? Takes care, in part , of the money issue. Would still face some issues with clubs depending when the Saxons toured though and the increasing burden on players which is geneally ignored now. You could get the womens team touring to the same dountries and get some double headers.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:31 pm

All you have is that one infantile retort that isn't in any way strengthening your argument.

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:34 pm

As noted earlier, the Saxons are headed for SA but not even a test against Namibia. I'm not sure how seriously Georgia would take the Saxons. Again I would remind you of the tests played by under-strength Home Unions in the Far East, North & South America when the Lions have been on tour, and these were taken as seriously by the host nations as any other test. So why not Georgia, only on a more regular basis (ie annually), given their geographical proximity?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:42 pm

Why wouldn't Georgia et al take them seriously, on paper all the top NH teams reserves would beat them. Could call them non capped friendlies I suppose but the teams would be the same.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:47 pm

Rowanbi wrote:As noted earlier, the Saxons are headed for SA but not even a test against Namibia. I'm not sure how seriously Georgia would take the Saxons. Again I would remind you of the tests played by under-strength Home Unions in the Far East, North & South America when the Lions have been on tour, and these were taken as seriously by the host nations as any other test. So why not Georgia, only on a more regular basis (ie annually), given their geographical proximity?

This is where you argument falls apart, Georgia wouldn't take the Saxons seriously despite the fact they'd be trounced by them, it would be the Saxons playing either way and I don't think calling them England would make an ounce of difference.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:50 pm

Spot on. Saxons and other B teams would allow Georgia etc to get games against better opposition and if they didn't use them effectively and take them seriously they're idiots!

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:58 pm

Wow, you guys really are obsessive in your obstinate resistance to progressive thinking Shocked It's long since become obvious that no matter how often I answer your questions, you're just going to keep asking more and more warning

Well, I really am sorry for you that you're so petrified of change. But I've already pointed out why Georgia would take a test match seriously, regardless if it were understrength, but not so much a glorified training run against a development team or the likes. I mean, did you miss this, for example?

As noted earlier, the Saxons are headed for SA but not even a test against Namibia. I'm not sure how seriously Georgia would take the Saxons. Again I would remind you of the tests played by under-strength Home Unions in the Far East, North & South America when the Lions have been on tour, and these were taken as seriously by the host nations as any other test. So why not Georgia, only on a more regular basis (ie annually), given their geographical proximity?

Now, what are the chances that you guys will come back with more pointless questions, and probably exactly the same ones, for the zillionth time, just to prove to us all - once again - that you're simply too childish to agree to disagree, let it go and move on... Rolling Eyes
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:04 pm

Eh? It doesn't matter really if the game is badged as Saxons or a non cap friendly the teams would be the same. Would allow Romania to play games against better teams which is the point. End of season in the international window, pair it withe womens game. We can ignore the additional burden on the players.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:05 pm

If you answered any of the questions they might not keep getting asked but you're unable to and you seem to think your opinion is the be all and end all. Englands last tour of Argentina in 2013 was the very definition of pointless, neither England nor Argentina took it seriously and it ended up being a match between what was effectively two B sides.

All you have to do is answer some very simple questions but you're unable to, mainly because you don't have a clue about Rugby, nothing you post suggests otherwise.

Whether you label it as the Saxons or not that is exactly what they will be so why should a developmental side be gifted test caps they don't deserve at that point, it is not a one way street.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:06 pm

Then as you suggested try and force the SHteams to take a game up in the ais.

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Post by marty2086 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:43 pm

Rowanbi wrote:As noted earlier, the Saxons are headed for SA but not even a test against Namibia. I'm not sure how seriously Georgia would take the Saxons. Again I would remind you of the tests played by under-strength Home Unions in the Far East, North & South America when the Lions have been on tour, and these were taken as seriously by the host nations as any other test. So why not Georgia, only on a more regular basis (ie annually), given their geographical proximity?

This is essentially what has been happening, you ever hear of the Tblisi Cup?

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Post by Rowanbi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:55 pm

Again, you missed a few vital details.
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Post by marty2086 on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 11:21 pm

Again you dont elaborate

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Post by broadlandboy on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 8:08 pm

Two ideas. First Tier 1 teams can only tour 1 Tier 1 team a year having to play one match against a non Tier 1 team while on tour.
Second How about a European Cup ran either every 2 years (years 1 & 3 of world cup cycle)or every 4 years (year 2 of world cup cycle) with 6n teams sending second teams. When 6n teams regulary being beaten look to have 1st team compete & change to 6n.

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Post by Rowanbi on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 10:20 pm

First idea seems a bit excessive. I'm sticking with a simple requirement that they each play one non-tier 1 nation within their own geographical region per year. Much simpler.

Second idea has already been suggested, except I went with a quadrennial, eight-team format. Whether they field their top teams or second-strings, it should be regarded as an official test championship, or otherwise nobody will care just like the Nations & Tbilisi Cups.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 11:33 pm

Official Test Championship - well yes, but who will the four Southern Hemisphere teams play to make the whole exercise a fair and meaningful one in both parts of the planet?

Can't have one group of Premium Tier Nations risking ranking points by playing their lesser players whilst the other group relax by the pool and have their off season barbies.... Wink

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 11:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:Official Test Championship - well yes, but who will the four Southern Hemisphere teams play to make the whole exercise a fair and meaningful one in both parts of the planet?

Can't have one group of Premium Tier Nations risking ranking points by playing their lesser players whilst the other group relax by the pool and have their off season barbies.... Wink
This is the issue isn't it? There is no doubt that deals are made where by if you go tour somewhere in summer, they will return the favor in the AIs. This is crucial for unions such as the IRFU who rely on the international game to fund rugby here.

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