US presidential elections

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Post by spencerclarke on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 7:41 am

First topic message reminder :

Morning all,

So after the win in Iowa for Ted Cruz last night where do we see this going?

I'm thinking Clinton v Rubio. Lots of twists and turns still to come though.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:21 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Still nothing about the violence and the encouragement of said violence.

Classic.

The only person on record actively encouraging violence is Donald Trump.

But hey, some people* just don't want the truth to get in the way of a good story....


*not you

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:32 pm

I'd reluctantly vote for Hillary although I like Bernie.......Done a great job and hopefully he'll be VP....Hillary is close to sealing the deal but Michigan was a great win for the Bern..

As for Trump I like some of his domestic policies and one has to remember the US is still coming to grips with 9/11 and has to view some of his more extreme ones in that context......

God forbid Britain should have a 9/11 type atrocity..


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 5:06 pm

RCP...........

Illinois....................Trump 35..................Cruz 26.............(Too close to call)

Florida....................Trump 42..................Rubio 24.........(Trump should win)

Ohio.......................Kasich 36..................Trump 33.....(Kasich should win)

Missouri................. Trump 36..................Cruz 29.....(Too close to call)

N Carolina...............Trump 41..................Cruz 29 .....(Trump should win)

Winner takes all..........

Trump loses Ohio and Cruz wins one of the states he's closest in like Missouri........With Rubio out after Florida you have to fancy Cruz to become the eventual nominee...

Trump loses Ohio but wins the other four......He's on track for the most delegates but it'll need the convention to pick him...

Trump loses Florida and Ohio he's had it...........Both are swing states in November....and the fact he'll have lost both will be a good excuse at a brokered convention not to pick him..

Trump wins all 5......Game over probably..........

Won't win all 5 though..


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Post by Dave. on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 7:07 pm

Truss I don't think we (certainly not me anyway) are saying past GOP candidates for President were extreme; in fact, despite Dubya's nutty foreign policy he was a big government Republican and John Mccain is seen as a moderate conservative domestically.

Point is, for 6 of the past 8 years, they've had the House and the obstruction attitude has created this atmosphere. Senate Leader Mitch McConnell flat out obstructed too. It's this attitude, coupled with playing to the Base, is creating the atmosphere for Trump to thrive in. I mean, after Trump, you have Ted Cruz! GOP has went so far to the right. Would Reagan and Dole be Republicans today? I don't know. (Yes I know Dole is still alive).

Even Tip O Neill could work with Reagan.

On Goldwater, yes, he was pretty right wing for 1964. And yes, that convention seemed nasty. Beleive he got Klan endorsement too.Hillary was actually a Goldwater Girl. But, Reagan got elected pretty much on those policies. Even Goldwater warned of the effect the Religious Right would have on the party and it's not pretty.

Sad, as this is the party of Lincoln. I will say Trump is running as an old Southern Democrat though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 8:10 pm

Certainly the rise of the Tea party has given the right a bigger voice and the way the GOP has acted to gridlock business is reprehensible...

However there is a reason Trump and Cruz are scared of a brokered convention and Kasich and Rubio haven't quit...that's because the hierachy is still moderate....

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 8:20 pm

Is 9/11 still the reason for views like Trump's being ok in America? I think thats an excuse

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 8:32 pm

People are voting for Trump for many reasons but 9/11 has certainly made plenty wary of Muslims...

Many on the right don't know the difference between a Sunni and Shiite muslim..

Bush didn't.

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Post by Lowlandbrit on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 8:32 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly the rise of the Tea party has given the right a bigger voice and the way the GOP has acted to gridlock business is reprehensible...

However there is a reason Trump and Cruz are scared of a brokered convention and Kasich and Rubio haven't quit...that's because the hierachy is still moderate....
Cruz is basically the king of speaking loudly and refusing to compromise, which is one of the reasons the party doesn't want him to win; they don't want everyone to start doing it. Kasich is building nicely but is still pretty far back and unknown, and (barring a miracle) Rubio will be damaged beyond repair if he even makes it to the convention. His New Hampshire collapse looks like a more critical moment every day.
Wouldn't be surprised if they look for a fresh face, although it'll probably end up like the Biden speculation. It would be a horrible place to start from, but I saw one poll that showed only Kasich and Sanders still have positive net favorability ratings, so if it's ever going to work it's probably now.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 8:38 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People are voting for Trump for many reasons but 9/11 has certainly made plenty wary of Muslims...

Many on the right don't know the difference between a Sunni and Shiite muslim..

Bush didn't.

Thank you for the response, probably does make sense. I truly hope he doesn't get in, it would be a huge shame. I like Sanders the most of all politicians ive seen on either side, but would also be happy to see a female President. Sadly, as Obama alienated the right and probably didnt help change their views on black people, I wonder whether Hillary would just be a picture the right would paint of ineptitude of female politicians.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 8:18 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hitler transformed transport infrastructure (Autobahns)... built more hospitals and got people working...

If any candidate shared his "better" qualities they wouldn't go far wrong..

You have no idea.

He duped the populace much like Trump is trying to do now. Hitler was a much stronger political leader though... not a celebrity.
You completely miss the rest of what was going on in Germany in the 20s and 30s in your typically simplistic view on politics.

Stick to your limited knowledge of your former country and spare us all the 'history' lesson.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 8:42 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People are voting for Trump for many reasons but 9/11 has certainly made plenty wary of Muslims...

Many on the right don't know the difference between a Sunni and Shiite muslim..

Bush didn't.

Thank you for the response, probably does make sense. I truly hope he doesn't get in, it would be a huge shame. I like Sanders the most of all politicians ive seen on either side, but would also be happy to see a female President. Sadly, as Obama alienated the right and probably didnt help change their views on black people, I wonder whether Hillary would just be a picture the right would paint of ineptitude of female politicians.

Hillary like her husband is pretty right wing.   Look at  Bill Clinton's record..He could have been from the GOP.

Obama's problem is he lost both houses.......One because the economy didn't improve quick enough from his dire inheritance and two because he was pretty lazy.....Remember "Yes we can" he came in with such a bluster he was never going to live up to the hype !!.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 9:20 am

While Clinton is going to walk Florida, Missouri and North Carolina because of the make up of those States...

For those interested watch out for Illinois and Ohio...........

A month ago Bernie was twenty points down in both but latest averages show.....

Ohio - Clinton 51....Sanders 43

Illinois - Clinton 48....Sanders 46 ..........................

If Bernie can keep winning a few......He can't win but can give Hillary some headaches and gain concessions.....

Be great to see him on the ticket..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 9:29 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hitler transformed transport infrastructure (Autobahns)... built more hospitals and got people working...

If any candidate shared his "better" qualities they wouldn't go far wrong..

You have no idea.

He duped the populace much like Trump is trying to do now. Hitler was a much stronger political leader though... not a celebrity.
You completely miss the rest of what was going on in Germany in the 20s and 30s in your typically simplistic view on politics.

Stick to your limited knowledge of your former country and spare us all the 'history' lesson.

What a load of crap.....

He increased the army by 200,000.....He built a huge network of motorways and hospitals..........Reduced unemployment from 6 million to 350,000.....These are recognised facts

If you're going to insult me do your homework first....and don't waste my time again !! Cool

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 9:56 am

200,000? Try 3,500,000 and more.

You really are a factless idiot......................... sometimes. Cool
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Post by Hero on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:08 am

He built a great train infrastructure into Poland as well, does Trump plan the same for Mexico?

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:15 am

Hero wrote:He built a great train infrastructure into Poland as well, does Trump plan the same for Mexico?

More resorts and golf courses I think.

Truss would know for sure.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:26 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:200,000? Try 3,500,000 and more.

You really are a factless idiot......................... sometimes. Cool

You aren't worth it sunshine..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:30 am

Lowlandbrit wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly the rise of the Tea party has given the right a bigger voice and the way the GOP has acted to gridlock business is reprehensible...

However there is a reason Trump and Cruz are scared of a brokered convention and Kasich and Rubio haven't quit...that's because the hierachy is still moderate....
Cruz is basically the king of speaking loudly and refusing to compromise, which is one of the reasons the party doesn't want him to win; they don't want everyone to start doing it. Kasich is building nicely but is still pretty far back and unknown, and (barring a miracle) Rubio will be damaged beyond repair if he even makes it to the convention. His New Hampshire collapse looks like a more critical moment every day.
Wouldn't be surprised if they look for a fresh face, although it'll probably end up like the Biden speculation. It would be a horrible place to start from, but I saw one poll that showed only Kasich and Sanders still have positive net favorability ratings, so if it's ever going to work it's probably now.

Cruz is the most dangerous of the lot......Very smart man and further right than Atila the Hun....Empty vessels like Trump aren't a problem and he hasn't the clout to do anything anyway......But during the campaign Cruz has screwed Carson over ...Rubio over and managed to look more gentlemanly and moderate than Trump in doing so....

Cruz is smart, cunning, ambitious....but with an agenda too......Trump just wants to say he's been President.....Cruz wants to transform America.

Trump than Cruz anyday.

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Post by kingraf on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:36 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
Hero wrote:He built a great train infrastructure into Poland as well, does Trump plan the same for Mexico?

More resorts and golf courses I think.

Truss would know for sure.
Mexico will pay for it

*how?*

don't worry about it. They will
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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:36 am

Atilla the Hun was more of a man of the people than 'right'. Poor comparison!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:37 am

Dear oh dear..... Cool

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:39 am

Agree with you that Cruz is more of a danger but they are both pretty nasty people.

That makes three of you... Wink
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:43 am

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Nothing about the unprovoked assaults then? Nothing about Trump offering to pay the legal bills of some thug? You like boxing, don't you Truss? What's your view on someone sucker-punching a protestor, whether he was allowed to be there or not?

I got sucker-punched last year. Needed surgery on my face, now I've got two metal plates in there for the rest of my life. People that do that kind of thing are cowards and Trump is enabling and actively supporting it in an attempt to gain political capital.

A deplorable action.

And I wonder how much worse it would have been had the protesters rushed the stage, as this was their apparent intention.

Moving on..

Imagine what the posters on here would be saying if protestors were doing this at a Sanders rally..

Playing the man me thinks and not the issue..

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:48 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Nothing about the unprovoked assaults then? Nothing about Trump offering to pay the legal bills of some thug? You like boxing, don't you Truss? What's your view on someone sucker-punching a protestor, whether he was allowed to be there or not?

I got sucker-punched last year. Needed surgery on my face, now I've got two metal plates in there for the rest of my life. People that do that kind of thing are cowards and Trump is enabling and actively supporting it in an attempt to gain political capital.

A deplorable action.

And I wonder how much worse it would have been had the protesters rushed the stage, as this was their apparent intention.

Moving on..

Imagine what the posters on here would be saying if protestors were doing this at a Sanders rally..

Playing the man me thinks and not the issue..

"Do you want fries with that?............Watch out, man!"
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 10:55 am

I'm a fan of building a wall..........Drugs is a major problem and they flood in across the border....

The cost is a problem........Certainly cutting back on some of the foreign aid in places like Africa would be an idea...Most of the aid doesn't get to where it's supposed to anyway..

Charity begins at home..

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:14 am

The fact that drugs are illegal is the problem.

Also, what's wrong with playing the man rather than the issue when he publicly funds the defence of a cheap-shotting thug?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:19 am

Corbyn supported the IRA......You're a Corbyn fan...

But I won't hold it against you..




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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:48 am

Mr Corbyn said: "Yes, I did make myself very unpopular with some people by a preparedness to reach out to the republican tradition in Ireland, to say ultimately this war is unwinnable by either side, there is never going to be a military (solution), therefore there has to be a political dialogue.


"At the same time, secretly, the British government was also engaged in that and then eventually in 1994 we got the first ceasefire."


So by bringing members of the IRA and Sinn Fein to the House in order to try to stop the violence he is supporting the IRA? Get your nose of the Sun and join the rest of us in the real world.

And you're still not addressing the issue that I put to you, a whole day later.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:54 am

He stood in honor of dead IRA terrorists.......along with a 200 strong audience at London's conway hall..(Look it up)

I remember those poor kids getting murdered in Warrington just after I came over.......Disgusting..

I won't vote for Corbyn.....

I'm no Trump fan but maybe you should judge Trump by the same standards you obviously judge others..

But then again Trump is on the right isn't he.. Wink

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:23 pm

So despite one single instance where he may have made a mistake (his defence for doing that was that he believed he was standing in support of an independent Ireland) you're tarring this long-time pacifist as a supporter of war and terrorism. You do realise that he's opposed every war the UK has been in since he took office? Do me a favour.

Trump is a monster that's stirring up hatred all across America. To compare him to Jeremy Corbyn is lunacy, something we've come to expect from you.

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Post by Rowley on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:23 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hitler transformed transport infrastructure (Autobahns)... built more hospitals and got people working...

If any candidate shared his "better" qualities they wouldn't go far wrong..

You have no idea.

He duped the populace much like Trump is trying to do now. Hitler was a much stronger political leader though... not a celebrity.
You completely miss the rest of what was going on in Germany in the 20s and 30s in your typically simplistic view on politics.

Stick to your limited knowledge of your former country and spare us all the 'history' lesson.

What a load of crap.....

He increased the army by 200,000.....He built a huge network of motorways and hospitals..........Reduced unemployment from 6 million to 350,000.....These are recognised facts

If you're going to insult me do your homework first....and don't waste my time again !! Cool

He did this by raiding the German treasury and borrowing at an unsustainable rate, hence why war and the pursuance of an expansionist policy were pretty much inevitable and necessary. If you have annexed most of Europe you either have the resources to pay back your debtors or can tell them to stick it as you own them. If I borrow a million from a loan shark tomorrow it does not make me rich.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:25 pm

Like I said he dropped the unemployment rate from 6 million to 350,000...built a tremendous transport network and built more hospitals......

All factually correct......

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 1:13 pm

But if he did this through irresponsible borrowing then Rowley's argument completely undermines yours. How can you not see that?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 1:17 pm

Where have I made an argument ??.....

I stated that unemployment dropped....Autobahns were built as well as hospitals....

All of which is factually correct....

I think low unemployment and more hospitals and better transport infrastructure is a good thing !!..

If you want to argue on how it was achieved......Well I haven't addressed that...

But nice try... thumbsup  Cool


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 1:46 pm

A good guide as to the elections is to see where candidates are doing well and with who....

Rubio loses Florida tonight....Florida is his home State and a swing state.....So he's off any ticket as VP !!!..

Sanders is polling well in Missouri and Ohio which are bellwether states........He's already attracting kids into to the stations.....Who are a notoriously hard vote to get out.....

Sanders is polling better with white voters, Men and students...Whereas Clinton is pulling in the black vote, women vote and hispanics...

Makes it an enticing ticket..

Kasich wins in Ohio tonight then he's a very likely VP choice....Ohio is a big player in November..

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 2:34 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think low unemployment and more hospitals and better transport infrastructure is a good thing !!..

Ah but here is your argument! The countering point of view is that, no, they're not a good thing if they're bought with outrageous spending that the country cannot afford.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:02 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think low unemployment and more hospitals and better transport infrastructure is a good thing !!..

Ah but here is your argument! The countering point of view is that, no, they're not a good thing if they're bought with outrageous spending that the country cannot afford.

I imagine if someone is ill or struggling to feed their family......they may disagree..

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

God forbid Britain should have a 9/11 type atrocity..


Terrorism top trumps. Is that really what this is reduced to?

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:12 pm

Can anybody explain what Tino is on about..


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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:18 pm

We know a thing or two about terrorism, Beefcake.

Playing terrorism top trumps is a pretty vacuous starting point.


Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:19 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:We know a thing or two about terrorism, Beefcake.

Playing terrorism top trumps is a pretty vacuous starting point.


Thanks for explaining thumbsup ......

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:23 pm

Pr4wn wrote:They exercised their first amendment right and they certainly didn't stop Trump expressing his views.

When the secret service jumps on stage to protect Trump and has to jump on the perpetrator.....

One kind of assumes it's not easy for Trump to express his views..

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Post by Lowlandbrit on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kasich wins in Ohio tonight then he's a very likely VP choice....Ohio is a big player in November..
For? Kasich isn't hanging around to be the running mate, he's hanging around because if he gets some delegates and doesn't make too many enemies he hopes they'll settle on him at the convention.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:31 pm

As I've said earlier, violence from either side is deplorable and the vast, vast majority or protesters have been... er.... protesting. Holding up signs, chanting, heckling etc. That's it.

And Trump has ironically probably gained even more support from the bible belt pond life of the USA as a consequence of their protests. But the violence from Trump supporters (or which there has been considerably more) and the condoning and enabling of said violence by Trump himself is completely out of line.

Surely you must agree?!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:34 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kasich wins in Ohio tonight then he's a very likely VP choice....Ohio is a big player in November..
For? Kasich isn't hanging around to be the running mate, he's hanging around because if he gets some delegates and doesn't make too many enemies he hopes they'll settle on him at the convention.

Won't happen...........Someone who comes third/Fourth isn't getting the nod.....Kasich is hoping to steady the ticket as VP he's not stupid.......

Be someone like Paul Ryan....and that will lead to a Dem landslide..........

If Trump or Cruz gets screwed out of the nom...........It's going to be bloody.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:38 pm

Pr4wn wrote:As I've said earlier, violence from either side is deplorable and the vast, vast majority or protesters have been... er.... protesting. Holding up signs, chanting, heckling etc. That's it.

And Trump has ironically probably gained even more support from the bible belt pond life of the USA as a consequence of their protests. But the violence from Trump supporters (or which there has been considerably more) and the condoning and enabling of said violence by Trump himself is completely out of line.

Surely you must agree?!

Think many of the bible belt don't like seeing Trump bullied and having his first amendment rights stood on.....and good luck to them...

Don't agree with much of what Trump says but I agree he should be able to say it without idiots screaming him down.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 4:40 pm

You truly are quite something, Truss! Laugh

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 5:01 pm

Pr4wn wrote:You truly are quite something, Truss! Laugh

You're making it harder by the day to spin my way out of things though...I'll give you that !!. Wink

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 5:11 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hitler transformed transport infrastructure (Autobahns)... built more hospitals and got people working...

If any candidate shared his "better" qualities they wouldn't go far wrong..
I assume you post this tongue-in-cheek. Or are you seriously trying to justify Hitler and use him as reason for saying Trump is OK in what he says/does? Seriously?
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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 5:14 pm

Come now navy, he's just trying to be patriotic. Leave him be.

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