South Africa vs England ODI Series

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South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:45 pm

Surprised there is no thread for this yet. Fixtures are:

1st ODI: South Africa v England Bloemfontein on Feb 3, 2016

(13:30 local | 11:30 GMT)

2nd ODI: South Africa v England at Port Elizabeth on Feb 6, 2016

(10:00 local | 08:00 GMT)

3rd ODI: South Africa v England at Centurion on Feb 9, 2016

(13:30 local | 11:30 GMT)

4th ODI: South Africa v England at Johannesburg on Feb 12, 2016

(13:30 local | 11:30 GMT)

5th ODI: South Africa v England at Cape Town on Feb 14, 2016

(10:00 local | 08:00 GMT)

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:46 pm

England off to a good start in the first ODI, taking advantage of some wayward bowling to be 129/1 after 17 overs, with Hales looking good away from the Test arena

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:47 pm

Man I love this ODI batting line up so much
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:48 pm

Although I have just realised they've misplaced James Taylor
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:58 pm

Buttler promoted to four. Where was this cavalier and gallant attitude a year ago?

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 1:08 pm

Duty281 wrote:Buttler promoted to four. Where was this cavalier and gallant attitude a year ago?

Because Moores and co didn't realise that ODI cricket basically became a prolonged t20 and we were still playing ODI cricket from the stone age

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 1:09 pm

If Buttler bats the rest of these overs we could get 500
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 1:14 pm

Oh man I'd forgotten how much I love Jos
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 1:16 pm

Well 409 is the target!

Just nabbed an 11/4 price that England would score 409 or more.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 1:47 pm

Need Buttler to keep on going duty still a long way off!
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:04 pm

Well this is the dream combo - Stokes and Buttler, after Morgan struggled to take it up a gear.

If these two can bat for 10 overs...

And that was nearly the catch of a lifetime.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:12 pm

Olly wrote:Although I have just realised they've misplaced James Taylor

Untold riches - a couple of years ago someone making a warm-up century would be asked to open and captain for the next 5 years, now they don't make the team because there is someone better doing a similar role (Root in this case)

We also have the likes of Bairstow, Billings, Finn and Broad not playing today for various reasons, so the depth of squad is looking good

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:19 pm

VTR wrote:
Olly wrote:Although I have just realised they've misplaced James Taylor

Untold riches - a couple of years ago someone making a warm-up century would be asked to open and captain for the next 5 years, now they don't make the team because there is someone better doing a similar role (Root in this case)

We also have the likes of Bairstow, Billings, Finn and Broad not playing today for various reasons, so the depth of squad is looking good

James Vince isn't too shabby either!
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:25 pm

The way buttler can just hit a straight six 100m with what seems like just a flick of the wrists is amazing
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:32 pm

Well done, Buttler. clap

I guess this tactical move can be classed as a designated success.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:37 pm

The tamest end for the clearest winner.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:37 pm

Jos Buttler's slowest ODI hundred comes off 73 balls
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:44 pm

Duty281 wrote:Well done, Buttler. clap

I guess this tactical move can be classed as a designated success.

Buttler now averages 230 at a strike rate of 174 batting at 4 in ODI's
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:55 pm

Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Well done, Buttler. clap

I guess this tactical move can be classed as a designated success.

Buttler now averages 230 at a strike rate of 174 batting at 4 in ODI's

Well, England have had worse players at 4, I suppose. Whistle

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 2:56 pm

12 an over off the last four - Come on England!

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 3:02 pm

The first seven England batsmen have all hit at least one six. I imagine that hasn't happened too often. Very Happy

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 3:35 pm

Good effort from England, though a bit odd they didn't even attempt a bye off one of the final two balls to get to 400. Cracking start given by the openers, Buttler was Buttler, Root and Stokes provided great support, and some lusty blows by Moeen and Jordan.

Olly mentions Taylor, but it's hard to see exactly where he fits into England's best XI. Hales and Roy open. If you want the six bowlers, which I think you do - see SA's struggles today - then Moeen and Stokes play. Then Buttler and Morgan obviously play, which really only leaves the number 3 spot, and Root is better there than Taylor. Great to have the back-up options though Very Happy

Post WC I argued that England should look at Buttler at 5 going forward, simply because he's too good a player to be stuck in the finishing role. Was very interesting to see him come in at 4 today, and will be interesting to see if England will persist with that. Stokes I think is better suited to 6 than 5, so Buttler coming in up the order makes sense.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Stella on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 3:46 pm

Batting position obviously depends on the match situation. You may want to hold Buttler back if we're batting first and are 25-2.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 3:54 pm

Willey bowling to de Kock...cue obvious jokes...



(come on, someone had to say it) Run



Back from the realms of juvenile behaviour, fantastic innings from England clap SA will surely find this a hard act to follow.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 4:30 pm

[quote="dyrewolfe"]Willey bowling to de Kock...cue obvious jokes...

Smile That's a good spot. Possibly looking to emulate his father who was involved in Lillee c Willey b Dilley with his own scorecard curio of de Kock b Willey

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 4:39 pm

My old mate Chris Jordan is taking some tap!

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 4:52 pm

VTR wrote:My old mate Chris Jordan is taking some tap!

Awful opening spell #whereswoakes
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 5:01 pm

Moeen and Rashenius bowling in tandem - the Saffers have no hope
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 5:08 pm

Olly wrote:Moeen and Rashenius bowling in tandem - the Saffers have no hope

Suspect that's more to do with getting 20 overs bowled before the storm hits!

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 5:18 pm

Ben Stokes is good at cricket
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hibbz on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 5:18 pm

How on earth did he catch that? Just brilliant.

Kingraf thinks even less of him now.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 6:16 pm

Stop bowling Chris Jordan plz
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 6:23 pm

Olly wrote:Stop bowling Chris Jordan plz

Or you know carry on bowling the dude going at 10 an over
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 6:55 pm

Was just looking at stats for worst bowling economy rates in ODIs. Currently Jade Dernbach still sits proudly on top of that list (6.35). But three England bowlers in the current match are not that far behind - Stokes (who is second, at 6.22), Rashid (6.03) and Jordan (5.95).  

Interesting to note that on this international list of least economical ODI bowlers three out of the six bowlers averaging over 6.00 are English. I imagine that, with the increased batting aggression in ODIs, Dernbach will lose his place at the head of the records before too long.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by msp83 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 7:04 pm

So the rain seems to be getting ready to have the final say on yet another slogathon on a dead track.
England used the batting conditions and not the best of bowling from South Africa to great effect, posting nearly 400, and then despite a good counterpunch from Quinton de Kock, the scoreboard pressure doing the South Africans in, and to add to that, Stokes taking an AB like catch to add to South Africa's problems. England batting lineup has clearly been better, they all turned up, while for South Africa, it has only been de Kock......

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by msp83 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 7:06 pm

Dernbach would be piling up tons in every ODI that he would have been playing in these conditions! And England would have been chasing 500 nearly every match! How on earth did he get selected to play ODI cricket for England? Still can't quite figure out the even more odd call to play him in as many games as he did!

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 7:20 pm

Dernbach, like Jordan was persisted with for his variations at the death. Nice theory, terrible in reality

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 9:36 pm

VTR wrote:Dernbach, like Jordan was persisted with for his variations at the death. Nice theory, terrible in reality

All about length at the death. Bowling a slower ball halfway down the track is more likely to go than a yorker.

Of course batsman can paddle etc yorkers, but that's much more of a tough task than heaving length even if it's varied
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 10:10 pm

Yep that was dernbachs downfall, he saw a slow ball bouncer, the batsman saw a 70mph half tracker. Jordan is supposed to be good at yorkers and seems to have played today based on one good over in a T20

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 10:43 pm

Jordan IS good at yorkers, the problem is his "stock" ball which today was rather all over the place. When he went for his yorker, he hit it well, and didn't go for many. Problem is you can't really bowl ten overs of yorkers, batsmen will eventually line it up with no problems, especially at this level, so Jordan needs to work on what he does in his first and second spells before bowling at the death. At the death I have no problems with him, like I said he hits his yorkers well, and he has an OK slower ball and short ball as variations, that should be enough. Problem is him bowling in the first 35-40 overs of an innings.

The problem with yorkers at the death was perfectly illustrated by the first two balls of Morris's over just before he got rid of Stokes. First ball he hits his yorker pretty much spot on, if we're quibbling it's half a foot too full. Stokes opens the face and finds the gap at cover for four. Second ball he misses his yorker, not by that much, maybe two or three feet, Stokes hits it out of the ground. One good/very good effort, one decent one, ten runs. There's just no margin for error with the yorker when good batsmen are expecting it. Having said that, it's still the go-to ball at the death, perhaps more so with the five men outside the circle, which allows you to set the field for it. Just that instead of going for it 90-95% of the time as bowlers used to, it might now be anything from 40 to 70%.

Back to Jordan, I wouldn't have him in the side TBH, much prefer Woakes or Plunkett (when fit). Woakes offers a useful death option, although perhaps not as good as Jordan, but a significantly better one early doors. Plunkett's extra pace is also a weapon, and I might have him in my first XI. Both capable batsmen (I think Woakes is better than Jordan with the bat personally). Finn another option, though he weakens the batting.

I like the two left arm options up front, both will swing the ball if there's any movement, Topley offers another good death option, while Willey offers hard hitting down the order and is a terrific fielder. Rashid and Moeen are good spin options, Stokes gives you the extra seamer/bowler and can bowl at the death too. So England's attack has good balance, in fact their side is looking increasingly strong IMO, with decent depth too.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 10:57 pm

I think Finn for Jordan would be my change - David Willey coming in at 9 not the worst place to be with your batting line up!

Finn is a very good ODI bowler, and a real wicket taker with the new ball first up. But would have no issues with plunkett either (and he does offer more hitting with the bat).

So many options, so much potential - Bayliss doing a wonderful job so far
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:13 pm

I'm one of the very few here who like Jordan.

Too late in the day to go into detail but believe there's a lot of talent there, some of it still untapped. Whilst you would normally expect clearer evidence of that by now, worth remembering that Jordan lost around two years' playing time at the end of his teens / early twenties with a back injury. I therefore make some allowance for that and still hold the belief that he'll improve further.

That said, for now at least there's an absence of consistency and consequently something of a risk. That risk though can be mitigated and adequately imo by picking him as one of a 6 man attack. I didn't see Jordan bowl today but am puzzled why he bowled so much when we had other options and it wasn't working for him.

PS and Edit: MfC - as shown, I'm not fully at one with you on Jordan but applaud your post for being comprehensive and clear. [If you're still around, interested in your ''Mankad'' thoughts - other current thread refers, cheers.]

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:22 pm

I too like Jordan, I just don't think he's part of England's best XI at present. There's plenty of ability there, and he has that feeling of "something about him", so is IMO worth persevering with. The challenge might be to find that consistency without coaching the natural ability out of him. I think England's coaches certainly sense that ability, and are thus keen to keep him in and around the team. They also clearly value his death bowling, for long a real weakness for England, albeit we do seem to have more decent options at the moment. Right now though, I do feel Plunkett and Woakes should be ahead in the pecking order, maybe Finn too.

Agree totally with your last sentence guildford, I too was surprised that he bowled so much today. I personally wouldn't have brought him back for a second spell after his first was all over the place (perhaps at the death, had we gotten that far).

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by kingraf on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 9:50 am

Hibbz wrote:How on earth did he catch that? Just brilliant.

Kingraf thinks even less of him now.

Thought I'd go on facebook to quote exactly what I said when he caught and it went...

"Man just fu.ck Ben Stokes. Fuc.k him to hell"

So, very accurate
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 06 Feb 2016, 10:13 am

Rashenius casually going at 4.3 RPO off his 10 overs like the boss he is
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 06 Feb 2016, 11:22 am

Great catch by Buttler to get Roussow. Mind you, when checking the bowler's front foot for the review it was clear that Topley missed a chance to Mankad the batsman at the non-sriker's end. Wink

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sat 06 Feb 2016, 11:37 am

SA innings seems to have fallen away a bit...though Behardien is doing his best to give it a flying finish.

Haven't watched it all but Topley seems to have done well ?

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sat 06 Feb 2016, 11:39 am

262. Seems moderate in the New Era of ODI ?

England look happy walking off.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 06 Feb 2016, 11:57 am

Hi Alfie - Yeah, the SA innings did seem to fall away a bit although I only saw about the last 15 overs. As we know, they don't bat deep which probably means they stutter a bit and have to try and hold onto their top order wickets longer before giving it a real go

Alec Stewart on UK Sky currently praising AB's ''outstanding innings'' and his ''assessment of the conditions on a tricky pitch which isn't easy''.

Total referred to by Stewart as ''very competitive''. That seems to be the view of the other pundits and commentators. I'm still fairly confident we can chase this down but a good start is near essential.

Lot of praise by the oft maligned Knight for Jordan's catch of AB which he reckoned pegged SA back by 20 or so runs. Probably right there. Again felt sorry for Jordan - he pulled off that catch and another decent one at slip but saw Buttler spill a reasonable chance off his bowling, far easier than the one Buttler took off Topley to get Roussow,

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sat 06 Feb 2016, 12:07 pm

Jordan is certainly an outstanding fielder. I think it is an important factor in his continued selection for squads despite less than brilliant bowling figures. If he could seriously justify his spot as one of a top four bowlers he'd be a must in the ODI side - as it is he is rather at the mercy of availability and team balance...

Interesting comments re the pitch. Chase may not be a stroll in the park ; but you'd think with a decent start they'd fancy it. Rabada will make the early overs a bit more fraught , I suspect.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

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