South Africa vs England ODI Series

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South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Surprised there is no thread for this yet. Fixtures are:

1st ODI: South Africa v England Bloemfontein on Feb 3, 2016

(13:30 local | 11:30 GMT)

2nd ODI: South Africa v England at Port Elizabeth on Feb 6, 2016

(10:00 local | 08:00 GMT)

3rd ODI: South Africa v England at Centurion on Feb 9, 2016

(13:30 local | 11:30 GMT)

4th ODI: South Africa v England at Johannesburg on Feb 12, 2016

(13:30 local | 11:30 GMT)

5th ODI: South Africa v England at Cape Town on Feb 14, 2016

(10:00 local | 08:00 GMT)

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:24 am

Fair enough to pull that ball ...unfortunately was a little off balance and got too much under it...
But a pity he got out then as a few more overs from him might have seen the team to 250.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:27 am

Won't miss this south african commentary
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:28 am

236 it is then.

Apparently chasing teams here have struggled to score more than 240 , so it may not be a walk in the park for SA . You'd rather be in their shoes though. And England will surely feel they presented their opponents with a few soft wickets.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by GSC on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:29 am

England have been flattered by Hales and Root in this series.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:29 am

And Broad goes down swinging...hits a 6 then gets out for 13 and Eng are 236 all out. At least 50 runs shy of what they needed.

Just watch SA chase this down comfortably...
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:29 am

England will have to take their opportunities in the field better than they did the other night if they're to have any chance
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:30 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Olly wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Bowden was a good umpire a few years back Olly but I do think the margin of error in DRS has an adverse effect on them and gives them a get out of jail card far too often.

The no ball in the Aus/NZ game was embarrassing, so bad it makes you wonder if it was deliberate.

Makes you wonder why they didn't review the no ball - when it's out and a no ball isn't called you can check, but when a no ball is called and it's out you can't? Strange

It's even odder when it allows the very average Voges to make a bit of history, fear not he and the rest of the Australia team will forget how to bat the moment the ball swings in England.

Don't forget England tour here first and Voges has scored around 12,000 runs averaging 47. You may be looking at another 5-0 again!
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:31 am

GSC wrote:England have been flattered by Hales and Root in this series.

Well Buttler in the first ODI too
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:33 am

GSC wrote:England have been flattered by Hales and Root in this series.

The rest just aren't very good, the odd blitz here and there aside they're crap.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:35 am

Just seen all the wickets on replay

Morgan was a shocker picard Cannot find any justification for that shot - have to wonder if perhaps personal (low scores) and captaincy (successive losses) pressures have combined to scramble his mind.
But really : even five down , the run rate was fine and plenty of overs were left - yet all the last five were caught in the deep...

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:35 am

Had to lol at this tweet:


MichaelVaughan
Most talented group of One day Cricketers England have ever had ... #Fact .. They will be very very dangerous when they develop some brains
11:29 a.m. - 14 February 2016
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by GSC on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:38 am

Some need to find some form.

Roy doesn't really convince though. More miss than hit.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by GSC on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:40 am

Theres definitely room for a Taylor in the middle order, oddly dropped despite being one of Englands better ODI players lately. Theres too many all or nothing players in the team at present imo.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 11:41 am

For UK viewers watching Sky now, this is why I like Stewart so much. Good cricket knowledge mixed with sound common sense and prepared to push a point (here against the too bland Tresco).

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:03 pm

GSC wrote:Theres definitely room for a Taylor in the middle order, oddly dropped despite being one of Englands better ODI players lately. Theres too many all or nothing players in the team at present imo.

Who do you bring him in for? I agree he needs to play
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:06 pm

Morgan or Roy, his overall treatment screams of having a face that doesn't fit with the selectors.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:08 pm

Who opens if you bring him in for Roy?

I'd be tempted to bring him in for Morgan myself
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:09 pm

Ali is wasted in one days down at number 7 so open with him, wouldn't be averse to bringing Bairstow in for Morgan as well.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:11 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ali is wasted in one days down at number 7 so open with him, wouldn't be averse to bringing Bairstow in for Morgan as well.

Good suggestion - forgot about Moeen - does have centuries opening in ODI's as well.

One to consider for next summer anyways
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:25 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ali is wasted in one days down at number 7 so open with him, wouldn't be averse to bringing Bairstow in for Morgan as well.

Hammersmith - I don't know if you were listening to Stewart but I'll return to his immediate comments at the interval: ''You have got to be positive but you also have got to adapt to the situation. The way we got bowled out, you have to ask questions.''

Ali should not have been wasted down at number 7 today. Admittedly due in part to failings of others higher up in the order but he had the time and opportunity to play a required vital innings. He blew that badly and so I don't see it as a suitable dress rehearsal to open.

I'm only picking on Ali due to your comment. Woakes and Rashid did themselves no favours either. We make a big thing of batting deep but we first and foremost need to bat appropriately which takes me back to Stewart.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:27 pm

They say a week is a long time in politics ...but it has nothing on a couple of ODIs on cricket discussion boards Smile

After the first two matches in this series , England were a wonderfully talented group of dynamic young players and it was obvious that only pig headed officialdom which failed to pick them all earlier had held England back in the Workd Cup etc etc...new world order , poised for success in 2019...

Two losses to a good team (1 of them by a single wicket) and they are mostly rubbish Smile

I didn't totally buy the first proposition and I am certainly not buying
the second. Like the Test team , this is a developing team , with a lot of promise. As Bayliss says , they are getting experience into a number of young players , and finding out who are the top 15-20 as they go.
It's a work in progress. Mostly they're good to watch. I think they're going to lose today ; but the tour has still has had plenty of good points and even a disappointing finish shouldn't cause us to despair.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:31 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ali is wasted in one days down at number 7 so open with him, wouldn't be averse to bringing Bairstow in for Morgan as well.

Hammersmith - I don't know if you were listening to Stewart but I'll return to his immediate comments at the interval: ''You have got to be positive but you also have got to adapt to the situation. The way we got bowled out, you have to ask questions.''

Ali should not have been wasted down at number 7 today. Admittedly due in part to failings of others higher up in the order but he had the time and opportunity to play a required vital innings. He blew that badly and so I don't see it as a suitable dress rehearsal to open.

I'm only picking on Ali due to your comment. Woakes and Rashid did themselves no favours either. We make a big thing of batting deep but we first and foremost need to bat appropriately which takes me back to Stewart.

I haven't heard Stewart ; but I think this makes excellent sense. Hopefully Bayliss will be working on this aspect when they return to fifty over stuff in the northern summer.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:34 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ali is wasted in one days down at number 7 so open with him, wouldn't be averse to bringing Bairstow in for Morgan as well.

Hammersmith - I don't know if you were listening to Stewart but I'll return to his immediate comments at the interval: ''You have got to be positive but you also have got to adapt to the situation. The way we got bowled out, you have to ask questions.''

Ali should not have been wasted down at number 7 today. Admittedly due in part to failings of others higher up in the order but he had the time and opportunity to play a required vital innings. He blew that badly and so I don't see it as a suitable dress rehearsal to open.

I'm only picking on Ali due to your comment. Woakes and Rashid did themselves no favours either. We make a big thing of batting deep but we first and foremost need to bat appropriately which takes me back to Stewart.

Have to admit I stopped watching once we were all out but one of the commentators did mention the mindset of Ali nowadays, that by batting at seven he starts batting like a seven despite being good enough to open. Since he's been viewed as the frontline spinner his batting has taken a big big hit, he certainly has the talent to open in the short form and to bat higher up the order in tests but is having to concentrate on other aspects of his game

The team contains four fairly similar all rounders in that regard who I believe i'm right in saying have played in the top five for their counties; Stokes, Ali, Woakes and Rashid who have over 50 first class and list A centuries between them.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:36 pm

Just to add to that, Stewart is the perfect example of what I mean; a mid to high 40's test opener who was burdened unnecessarily with wicket keeping duties in my opinion and saw his form plummet.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:38 pm

Good review England sees De Kock on his way ...pretty clear inside edge.

Couple more quick ones would be nice Smile

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:39 pm

Topley has had an impressive series
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:39 pm

And there is one of them !

Well bowled Topley clap

Game on

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:47 pm

Okay - brilliant start by England - Topley looks on fire.

Still too early to get too optimistic but if they can get rid of Amla and AB fairly cheaply, they could still pull this off.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:51 pm

Three gone ! Topley removes Rossouw and it will be up to the old firm of Amla and AB ...

Suddenly 236 doesn't look quite so pathetic , eh Smile

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:51 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Just to add to that, Stewart is the perfect example of what I mean; a mid to high 40's test opener who was burdened unnecessarily with wicket keeping duties in my opinion and saw his form plummet.

Yes, I take that point. I've been to meetings at the Oval where Stewart has actually said very much the same thing. Pretty much a quote from him - about him having to keep wicket in place of Russell so that an extra batsmen could be brought in to get us more runs - ''We tried to solve a problem and simply created another.''

I'm unconvinced though that given Moeen has moved down to 7 and failed there (at least today), you should now bump him all the way up the order to open. Roy isn't making it easy for me currently but I still have confidence in him to come good.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:51 pm

alfie wrote:They say a week is a long time in politics ...but it has nothing on a couple of ODIs on cricket discussion boards Smile

After the first two matches in this series , England were a wonderfully talented group of dynamic young players and it was obvious that only pig headed officialdom which failed to pick them all earlier had held England back in the Workd Cup etc etc...new world order , poised for success in 2019...

Two losses to a good team (1 of them by a single wicket) and they are mostly rubbish Smile

I didn't totally buy the first proposition and I am certainly not buying
the second.  Like the Test team , this is a developing team , with a lot of promise.  As Bayliss says , they are getting experience into a number of young players , and finding out who are the top 15-20 as they go.
It's a work in progress.  Mostly they're good to watch.  I think they're going to lose today ; but the tour has still has had plenty of good points and even a disappointing finish shouldn't cause us to despair.


Well, you can call it a kneejerk reaction, but thats a fair reflection of England's performances...they either seem to be brilliant or rubbish. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground.

I think it also reflects the frustration many people feel that a side which undoubtedly has lots of talent can be so bloody hopeless at times.

Also, its all very well having "promise" but at some point that has to transform into an ability to maintain their highest levels of performance to win series.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:52 pm

This is the partnership - this is where the series will be won or lost
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 12:54 pm

Jesus - Topley again! This time removing Rossouw.

Seems he's having a Broad-esque spell. SA 22-3 and the game is well and truly on!
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:03 pm

Hammersmith - just one final point from me on Ali.

In all forms of world international cricket or even English domestic cricket, there have been very, very few frontline bowlers (and that is England's view of Ali) who have opened the batting. That is not to say it is impossible but history is certainly against it.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:05 pm

I wouldn't try him in tests again but it's worth a try in the short form as the Roy experiment is failing quite badly at the moment.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:12 pm

Have a feeling this game will turn on what happens when the England spinners are introduced.
Topley has done for the top order but there are two pretty good players at the crease . I know Morris worked wonders on Friday ; but you'd think SA really need this pair to get them up around 150 .

Could end up being something of a test of Morgan's captaincy.

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:20 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I wouldn't try him in tests again but it's worth a try in the short form as the Roy experiment is failing quite badly at the moment.

Roy has had a rotten series ; but I don't think he should be discarded so abruptly. Think he has shown enough to be given a decent run in the side. In any case he has a job to do in t20 after this game...let us see if he can get back in the groove there.
Ali has a tricky job to do at 7 : sometimes he really has to just come out swinging , with very few balls left ; and others - like today - where he has the time and responsibility to play "normally" ( which for him is quite aggressively anyway) He needs to get his balance right ; but I wouldn't say he is wasted in the position. Someone has to bat there...

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:21 pm

Get Rashid on ffs
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:35 pm

Getting De Villiered here
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:37 pm

Amla and AB looking in ominously good form here. If England can't find a way to get these two out soon, the run chase could end up being a formality.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by alfie on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 1:44 pm

Stokes seems to think he is Jordan today ...dishing up a right load of rubbish. SA getting on top here : need some Rashid magic...

And not full tosses like that please Sad

Reckon they need to break this pair up in the next few overs or this game is only going one way

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 3:22 pm

Ultimately disappointing end to this series but we're making strides as an ODI side, having won in UAE and should've really won here (the last match a huge missed opportunity)

Some tweaking to be done here or there, and more consistency to be found but promising nonetheless
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by KP_fan on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 3:46 pm

another day, new game but same old story for Morgan as a captain...like the "limited over only " captains....doesn't know how to use bowling/ attacking fielding to close out a game.
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 15 Feb 2016, 1:18 pm

Olly wrote:Ultimately disappointing end to this series but we're making strides as an ODI side, having won in UAE and should've really won here (the last match a huge missed opportunity)

Some tweaking to be done here or there, and more consistency to be found but promising nonetheless


Nothing a few good slaps around the head wouldn't cure...or preferably some brain transplants.

This England side make me want to break stuff. Its clear they have plenty of ability...but it curiously deserts them at critical times, causing them to play like headless chickens. I don't care what anyone says, throwing away a 2-0 series lead like they did just smacks of complacency / lack of application.

Bayliss needs to get them out of this habit of reverting to T20 mode, where every ball is either 4/6 or out (usually the latter) and play balls on their merits.

Our bowling unit is basically okay (as long as Willey and Jordan aren't picked again). Woakes looks ordinary at best...maybe find someone to replace him.

Overall though, our players just need to learn to use the grey matter between their ears, more than anything. Thats the biggest thing holding us back IMO (not just in cricket either).
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 19 Feb 2016, 11:47 am

First T20 today

Expecting this side

Roy, Hales, Vince, Morgan, Buttler, Billings, Ali, Rashid, Willey, Jordan, Topley
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 19 Feb 2016, 2:05 pm

No safety net for the bowlers then, Olly?

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 19 Feb 2016, 2:16 pm

I'd try that this game, and try the 6 bowlers next game try to see which one gives the better balance/team
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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Mat on Fri 19 Feb 2016, 2:36 pm

Olly wrote:First T20 today

Expecting this side

Roy, Hales, Vince, Morgan, Buttler, Billings, Ali, Rashid, Willey, Jordan, Topley

No Root, Olly?

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 19 Feb 2016, 2:37 pm

Fair enough although watch out for s*d's law - ie the only time you need 6 bowlers is when you don't have 'em!

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Re: South Africa vs England ODI Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 19 Feb 2016, 3:22 pm

Mat wrote:
Olly wrote:First T20 today

Expecting this side

Roy, Hales, Vince, Morgan, Buttler, Billings, Ali, Rashid, Willey, Jordan, Topley

No Root, Olly?

Give him a rest for the rest of this tour I reckon. See what we have in Vince
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