The Next Generation

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The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 07 Feb 2016, 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's exciting times for tennis, with the established generation still playing amazing tennis but with no fewer than 11 teenagers in the top 200. With Zverev beating Cilic and making an ATP level semi final this week, I thought it would be a good time for a thread to follow them. The eleven to watch are as follows:

1. Coric (WR38 age 19.2) - touted for some time and boasts wins over Nadal and Murray. However, seems to have stagnated recently and lack of real weapons may stop him reaching the very top. 23.10 WR45 - still not 20 and has now spent around 18 months ranked around 40-50. Signs of improving his weight of shot and clearly has a good attitude but currently stagnant. 2016 Grade - C

2. Chung (WR68 age 19.7)  - steady progression largely at Challenger level. Very tough all-round game but, like Coric, possible questions whether he has sufficient weaponry. Needs to kick on and start getting wins at ATP level. 23.10 WR135 - struggled at ATP level and then had a break after RG, possibly injured. Now back playing Challengers and getting strong results again at that level. 2016 Grade - D

3. Zverev (WR69 age 18.8) - The youngest player in the top 100, with wins already over Cilic, Dolgopolov and Anderson. Made it to the SF in Montpellier this week. Former junior number one and Oz junior champ in 2014. 23.10 WR 20 - the standout star, becoming the first teenage title winner in 8 years. Signs he could be the next dominant player in the game. 2016 Grade - A+

4. Kokkinakis (WR96 age 19.8) - Another big guy with a modern all-court game. Has all the shots to make it to the top, if not quite the explosiveness of his compatriot, Kyrgios. Career so far being held back by injury and currently yet to play this season due to a left shoulder injury. Hopefully, he can have an injury-free spell and start climbing back up the rankings. 23.10 Unranked - not played an ATP match all year through injury. Cruel luck. 

5. Fritz (WR145 age 18.2) - Already 6'4 and touted as the great American hope. The 2015 US junior champ and year end junior number 1. Already with 3 challenger level titles, he made his slam debut at the Australian, making his way through qualifiers before losing in 5 to Jack Sock. Expect him to be top 50 by year end. 23.10 WR 73 - breakthrough ATP final broke him into the top 100. No real exceptional results since but gaining great ATP level experience and still only 18. Also, managed to fit in getting married! 2016 Grade - B+

6. Khachanov (WR152 age 19.7) - Possibly the least heralded of the 11, the 6'6 Russian burst to prominence when just 17 with a win over Tipsarevic at the Kremlin Cup. Yet to make a breakthrough at ATP level. Still developing at Challenger level. 23.10 WR 63 - outstanding second half to the season including a 250 title have seen him jump 100 places. Looks a future top 10 player with a combination of movement and power. No one will want to face him next year. 2016 Grade - A

7. Ymer (WR153 age 19.8) - The older of the two Ymer brothers, seen as the future of Swedish tennis. Qualified for all 4 slams in 2015 but didn't make it past the first round. Another with wins at Challenger level. Best ATP result so far the 3rd round in Barcelona. 23.10 WR 158 - stagnant and one of the oldest of the bunch. No real signs of progress. 2016 Grade - C-

8. Donaldson (WR159 age 19.3) - The second of three Anericans in this list. Coached by Taylor Dent, he's again seen as a big hope. Yet to break through at ATP level and with only one title at Challenger level, still very much a work in progress. 23.10 WR 109 - broke into the top 100 following a R16 showing in Toronto and a superb R3 at the US Open (beating Goffin and Troicki). Promising. 2016 Grade - B

9. Halys (WR172 age 19.2) - The top French junior. Produced a promising display against Novak in Oz. Still very raw but looks to have the game if he can pull it all together. 23.10 WR 149. Has won a Challenger but not progressed significantly this year. 2016 Grade C-

10. Tiafoe (WR176 age 18) - The youngest of the 11 and another American. Already made his slam debut at the French 2015. Two Challenger finals already and beat Sam Groth in Dallas this week. 23.10 WR 102. Broke the top 100 a couple of weeks ago. Two Challenger titles and several other finals. Sporadic ATP appearances so far but looks to have the tools to make it. Expect big strides next year. 2016 Grade - B+

11. Rublev (WR195 age 18.3) - The 4th player on this list with a junior slam title (French 14). Has an explosive game. Yet to win a Challenger title but seen by many as a future top tenner. Expect big ranking strides this year. 23.10 WR 166 - disappointing year for one of those most hyped youngsters. One Challenger title amongst a sea of mediocre results. The only one yet to make his grand slam debut. Still only just 19, so don't write him off yet! 2016 Grade - D

Good luck to all the youngsters!


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Re: The Next Generation

Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 5:52 pm

In Marseille semis:
Kyrgios averaging over 1.5 aces a game, Cilic average just under 1.5 aces a game.
Pretty sure if you count unreturnables, that would go up to around 2.5 (aces &unreturned) a game on average at-least.

Can't wait to watch the Kyrgios vs Cilic final !

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 6:04 pm

I doubt Kygrios is going to win a Masters anytime soon; Masters very unlike a 250 event.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 6:10 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:In Marseille semis:
Kyrgios averaging over 1.5 aces a game, Cilic average just under 1.5 aces a game.
Pretty sure if you count unreturnables, that would go up to around 2.5 (aces &unreturned) a game on average at-least.

Can't wait to watch the Kyrgios vs Cilic final !

But courts need to be quicker though!

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 6:18 pm

Good to see a younger-player surge. OK, some of the big boys aint been around but this is all very encouraging.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 6:18 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:I doubt Kygrios is going to win a Masters anytime soon; Masters very unlike a 250 event.

He's just destroyed two top 10 players, both of whom looked in good form beforehand. Only Novak and Murray are an additional level up of those likely to play in IW and it's questionable if Andy will be in any shape.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 6:39 pm

Its questionable that he could win six matches in a row to win IW or Miami. Didnt Gasquet and Berdych beat him at the slams recently? When it mattered the top guys would bring their best.

Berdych also struggled to put away 18 yo Zverev; either Berdych's form was so so or Kygrios (and Zverev) are that good. There's still Dubai to come, let's see how Stan and Berdych do there to gauge their form.

Kygrios did play well here but too early to say that he'll win a Masters, imo.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 8:55 pm

Kyrgios's ability is not really in question, IMHO. It's his head that needs sorting out. If he concentrates purely on his tennis he can be a top five player. He's got the game for it.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Sun 21 Feb 2016, 4:40 pm

Agree SFP on Kyrgios' ability. He has all the physical tools, and I think his head is going to determine whether he has a Monfils' like career or a Djoko type career. Coming out of the juniors Monfils was the jewel of the French National federation and had won 3 of the 4 junior slams. He was the biggest athletic talent of a crop of players that included Berdych, Djoko, Gasquet, Nadal, Tsonga, and a couple of years later Del po and Cilic. The group of guys 27-31 or 32 that we have talked so much about as the golden generation. Yet, he had a pretty average career although in terms of speed, fitness, power from all areas of the court, height etc ,he far outstripped his rivals. Yet, the guy has never won a masters or a slam when he was the bright hope of a class deep with talent and ability. At the very highest levels brains and discipline play a crucial role as all of the very best players can hit the crap out of the ball.

This is where Kyrgios is an X factor to the X treme. Nobody knows which way of that delicate ball he is going to comedown on. Mainly this is because it is all inside his head and nobody can know how it will work out. But in terms of talent and athleticism he is the best of his group.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 21 Feb 2016, 9:26 pm

Well, at any rate Kyrgios was too good for Cilic today and so has beaten Cilic plus two top 10 guys in three successive days.
Agree, Socal, with all you said about Monfils who should have been a permanent fixture in the top 10 for the last 7-8 years, given his ability.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Mon 22 Feb 2016, 8:06 am

Both Fritz and Tommy Paul have qualified in Acapulco - Paul beating a couple of much higher ranked players.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest on Mon 22 Feb 2016, 9:44 am

OK

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest82 on Mon 22 Feb 2016, 1:23 pm

I actually think his attitude helps Kyrgios in some ways. I think you have the likes of Berdych/Ferrer etc that are probably beaten before they play a Djokovic/Federer/Nadal.

Kyrgios has the youthful arrogance which I think will help him win the big matches.

Obviously it holds him back in a lot of ways too.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest82 on Mon 22 Feb 2016, 4:50 pm

Chung beat Seppi in straigh sets today.

Rublev won first round of his challenger match from a set down too.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Mon 22 Feb 2016, 7:05 pm

Kyrgios is a big, big talent. I thoroughly agree with the cogent points of IMBL and BS if anyone saw the serving performance Kyrgios put on in Marseille you would not think that conditions are such that we need to speed things up. I mean he was hitting aces on three quarter swings. He is so athletically gifted as well. What I find impressive is his backhand. The FH and serve rightfully get all the attention, but he has quirky effective backhand.

He chops it really early with no back swing, and when he goes up the line the ball typically bounces short and stays low through the court. Because of how little backswing and how short his motion is you can't read it all. And because it is so flat once he hits it, it becomes so hard to react to. A very good quirky shot.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:57 pm

Blimey I'm really starting to think that Fritz could be the next real deal. He's just beaten #30 ranked Chardy in 3 sets!

Fritz saved 2/3 BPs and created 12 against Chardy who is a big server (served 12 aces). It was a tight 3 setter, and Fritz only served at 48% but still got the job done. This seems to be a guy who is great in tight spots, which augurs really well for his future! Smile

Let's face it, Fritz' rise has been nothing short of ridiculous. He started playing full-time professional tennis in October 2015 (!) while ranked 694th and is already now in the top 100 - 4 months later! I don't believe any young player has risen through the ranks like this since a certain Mr. Nadal.

And it's obviously giving the Americans a boost as perennial "loser" Ryan Harrison ranked down at #130 has just beaten #12 Marin Cilic...what's going on???!!!
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 5:12 am

lydian wrote:Blimey I'm really starting to think that Fritz could be the next real deal. He's just beaten #30 ranked Chardy in 3 sets!

Fritz saved 2/3 BPs and created 12 against Chardy who is a big server (served 12 aces). It was a tight 3 setter, and Fritz only served at 48% but still got the job done. This seems to be a guy who is great in tight spots, which augurs really well for his future! Smile

Let's face it, Fritz' rise has been nothing short of ridiculous. He started playing full-time professional tennis in October 2015 (!) while ranked 694th and is already now in the top 100 - 4 months later! I don't believe any young player has risen through the ranks like this since a certain Mr. Nadal.

And it's obviously giving the Americans a boost as perennial "loser" Ryan Harrison ranked down at #130 has just beaten #12 Marin Cilic...what's going on???!!!

Harrison is disappointing because he actually has some weapons he just is not good at standing up on the baseline and taking the ball on he ends up against the fence for most of the match. I still haven't seen the kid play, the fact that at a young age he can return well enough to get breaks against a good ATP server like Chardy is a good omen. As we have seen most players take some time to return effectively on the tour. If he can do that at this size, and with his lack of experience that bodes well for him being able to translate to big results for him in the future. The US is supposed to have a good generation of players coming up just after the recent wave we have seen from the Australians, so the two great historical powers are back to producing players that bodes well for the future. Now we just needs the Swedes to chip and do some of the heavy lifting.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 6:41 am

Agree socal, Harrison looked to have a big game...unfortunately he hasn't got a big game head it seems. It's a good job he's won a match here at Acapulco as it was the only tournament he did well at in 2015 and if he lost early his ranking would plummet.

Yep re US tennis...Tiafoe looks promising too. Could be a great new US generation on the horizon. Fritz is the real deal by the look of it...however let's see how his big game translates to clay and grass too before we truly pin him down as the next Federer/Nadal/Djokovic, or even Murray. I hope he doesn't grow beyond 6'4 either.
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by LuvSports! on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 10:53 am

From what I saw of highlights from his final run in Memphis, his bh is his best shot. Really leans in on it.
Good serve (around the 120-125 mark). His fh is more spinny but is not bad.
He moves well for 6'4 too.


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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 11:00 am

He's very similar to Murray at that age (and has moved through the ranks at a similar rate). Murray probably had a bit more feel and all-round game, Fritz a bit more power and serve consistency.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 11:23 am

Good observations - agree that Fritz FH is an area he probably still needs to work on but his serve is going to glide him through matches at times...he's a little Sampras like there and saves a lot of BPs on big points. Its good to actually have some new talent to talk about rather than the same old 3-4 players...!
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 7:20 am

Fritz breezes into Acapulco 500 QF, where he's had to come through qualifying, by rolling over the #74 Estrella Burgos 61 63! Next up is #34 Querrey who is riding a purple patch after winning a title last week and beating Nishikori yesterday. Fritz is now ranked #80...this is his 4th ATP event after turning pro last October...this is meteoric stuff guys because his rise so far parallels Nadal and Djokovic.
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 5:57 pm

Good news, who knew he is young and talented, American and can play on clay, will wonders cease? I still haven't seen the kid play now I am super interested to see it.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by LuvSports! on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 7:28 pm

Acapulco is hard now Socal.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 7:46 pm

Acapulco switched damn that is odd they were always the last clay court event of the golden swing in Latin America. But interesting they probably did this to attract more players to use it as a warmup prior to IW and Miami. When did it switch?

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by LuvSports! on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 7:51 pm

In 2014. Dimi won it in '14 and then Ferrer won it last year.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 7:54 pm

I am getting old, but I haven't watch Alcapulco for years, always watch Dubai because of the bigger star power and Djokovic.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 12:47 pm

I saw that Fritz lost a close match to in-form Querrey overnight. He won the first set 62 then lost the next 2 with a break of serve in each. Querrey served at ~70% which for his big serve is hard to beat. What is impressive is that even in recent losses, to top 30 players, he's making it close. This "kid" is clearly no push over for anyone.
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by LuvSports! on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 1:43 pm

Kyrgios back from 4-1 (double break) to 4-4.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 1:47 pm

And promptly broken again! Not the first set I expected between these two!

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by LuvSports! on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 2:03 pm

That ended quickly.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 27 Feb 2016, 9:00 am

Tomic (playing well by all accounts) and Thiem (ditto) through to the Acapulco final. Two youngish guys making their mark this season.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 6:27 am

Congrats to Thiem for the Acapulco title. Its certainly not an easy final for him but he came through nonetheless. Tomic played well and had the lead in set one but couldnt hold on and Thiem edged him for the first set win in a TB.

The third set was all about Thiem really even though Tomic was still fighting but making more errors.

Thiem should be in top 10 this year if he carries on playing and winning like this.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by hawkeye on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 9:28 am

^ Yes this win put's Theim at a career high of 14 and is his first win at 500 level and I believe his first hard court win? Appears nice enough and wish him the best but looking at where he's gained his points I'm not convinced that he has the ability to pull off any big wins. Acapulco had a depleted field this year and at the age of 22 his best result at a Masters or slam is his one appearance in a quarter final at Miami last year.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 10:40 am

How's Acapulco depleted, when there are Ferrer, Kei and Dimi? Nothing different from 2014 when Dimi won it, or 2015 when Ferrer won.

We may be seeing Thiem reaching more QFs this year at the clay Masters. He only started winning titles(and on clay) at Nice and then after Wimbledon on European clay last year.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 11:32 am

No doubt that Thiem has done well whatever is thought about the quality of the opposition. Those wanting to see something of a changing of the guard can be encouraged not only by the teenage successes this season but also by the younger-20somethings being able to mount a charge.
Of course, IW and Miami will provide the youngsters with sterner challenges. But with Ferrer and Berdych seemingly faltering, there could be places in the top 10 becoming available.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by bogbrush on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 2:32 pm

socal1976 wrote:I am getting old, but I haven't watch Alcapulco for years, always watch Dubai because of the bigger star power and Djokovic.
Well, you said it! Poor Novak... Crying or Very sad
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest82 on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 8:15 pm

Thiem served 22 aces in the final against Tomic.

78% first serves in too.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 8:34 pm

Smile Thiem...

In Vienna at the moment and saw a shop that sold tennis equipment and had pictures of Thiem in the window.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 9:43 pm

I saw Fritz play and he was very good. He isn't going to set the world on fire with his movement, although he could be a good moving big man like Cilic, Berdy, Del po player. Although he is a little shorter than those guys he could go up to six five or six because he is still so young. But great serve, very poised, and real easy power off both wings particularly backhand. He didn't return great against  Querrey but he has shown he can break pretty well for just a kid. This is a great sign because it usually takes them a year or two just to be competitive in their opponents service games

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 11:03 pm

His BH > FH currently.
The best champions have "it" between the ears and I believe Fritz has also. Has saved a stack of BPs recently against quality players so already seems a mental fortress. Some guys can move well for 6'4...Goran did, Safin did...and Murray is only 1 inch shorter. He doesn't want to grow anymore though.
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 7:43 pm

Rublev wins his first Challenger title, beating PHM in the final. Moves him nearly 50 places to around 160.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 11 Mar 2016, 12:48 am

Tiafoe beats Fritz in Indian Wells. Could be a good future rivalry.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest82 on Fri 11 Mar 2016, 11:04 am

Born Slippy wrote:Tiafoe beats Fritz in Indian Wells. Could be a good future rivalry.

Strange result that. Thought Fritz was miles ahead of Tiafoe.

Chung lost to Ramos-Vinolas too.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by lydian on Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:56 am

Taylor is the better player IMO but Tiafoe is a good prospect too. Both being 18 yo. Also, IW is a very slow surface...Fritz may well be better suited to faster HC and grass...time will tell.
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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest82 on Sun 13 Mar 2016, 8:02 pm

I read that they are good friends and train together, maybe they know each other's game very well. Tiafoe is the younger of the two.

Zverev looked good early on here. Thiem through too.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 13 Mar 2016, 8:25 pm

Tiafoe was a little unlucky to lose to Goffin. Had 2 match points and generally looked good.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by socal1976 on Mon 14 Mar 2016, 6:30 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Tiafoe was a little unlucky to lose to Goffin. Had 2 match points and generally looked good.

Favorite match of the day for my money. Tiafoe has big up side but is very raw. The groundstrokes particularly the FH is lethal, and he moves like lightening. He can hit a big serve but he will need to work on his motion. He doesn't real push off and use his legs at all, it is kind of like Wawrinka or Almagro these strong upper body guys that use more upper body on the serve. He can generate power on the serve but it will need to improve although its pretty good now. But speed and FH are both off the charts. He is a very poor volleyer as well, he literally looks like he just learned how to volley last week.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Born Slippy on Wed 23 Mar 2016, 12:43 am

Most of these guys have made the Miami draw, one way or the other. Fritz and Paul came through qualies. No less than 9 teenagers in the draw. All of them have winnable matches:

Donaldson v Nishioka
Zverev v Mmoh (all teenage battle)
Rublev v Cervantes
Fritz v Bolelli
Chung v Kudla
Paul v Smyczek
Ymer v Delbonis
Coric v Istomin

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by Guest82 on Wed 23 Mar 2016, 3:05 pm

All except for Paul & Ymer (& Mmoh) are going off as bookies favourites.

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Re: The Next Generation

Post by LuvSports! on Wed 23 Mar 2016, 4:02 pm

Edmund a set up vs Vesely!

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Re: The Next Generation

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