The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 8:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Now it is official (and some guy with a green admin name has ruined the other thread) I shall put this here for you to discuss the referendum.


Last edited by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 05 Jun 2016, 4:53 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 20 May 2016, 4:42 pm

Why? The referendum will be gone, the prospect of another one dead for at least 20 years and UKIP don't stand for anything else.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 20 May 2016, 4:49 pm

Do you seriously think that if we vote to Remain, people who want to leave the EU will lamely shrug their shoulders and forget about it?

Of course they won't. They'll still want to get out, just like some people in Scotland still want to divorce their nation from the rest of the UK.

And I'll be amazed - astonished - if the EU still exists in 20 years for us to have a referendum on it. It's looking doubtful as to whether it can last out another 10 years. One nation will certainly vote to Leave in the next five - if it isn't the UK, it'll probably be either France or Greece - and then the whole lot will come crashing down.

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:01 pm

The difference is that the SNP have other strings to their bow. People in Scotland voted for them because, rightly or wrongly, they believed the SNP were the best party to lead Scotland.

UKIP are a one trick pony. They will disappear long before the EU does.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:21 pm

Except UKIP have evolved since winning the 2014 European elections to become far more than a one-issue party, which is why they are winning seats on local councils and the Welsh Assembly, as well as having established themselves as the third largest party in the UK (by voter support!).

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The phone pollsters have Remain...18...11...8 points ahead..Unlike online pollsters who have it closer......GE2015 showed online polling being miles out !!..

Whereas I think Out are more motivated and will get the vote out better..

They are too far away for it to matter..

Poor poor campaign..

Phone polling is inaccurate where this referendum is concerned. Some chap at ICM:

“The narrative that phone polls are more likely to be right ignores some fundamental flaws in phone methods. Labour supporters are continually oversampled by phone, and that may matter more than those same phone polls missing out on supposedly pro-’remain’ types, who are disproportionately less likely to turn out to vote."

And YouGov are pretty confident of the same problem existing, saying that groups of people more likely to vote Remain are oversampled on the phone:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/revealed-evidence-greater-skews-phone-polls/

But on the other hand it has been suggested (UKPollingReport) that the skew is actually part explained by bigoted keyboard warriors happy to anonymously click something on a computer but when actually asked by a human being over the phone, don't follow up with the response.

Same goes for polling issues at elections where disgruntled people will click one thing, maybe even voice something similar, but in the booth faced with the gravity of their decision, bottles it.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:34 pm

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

YouGov have new EU voting intention figures in today’s Times – REMAIN 44%, LEAVE 40% (tabs). This is YouGov’s biggest lead for remain since March. Only one of YouGov’s last eight polls has shown Leave ahead, so while the regular ICM online polls have a consistent small lead for Leave, YouGov’s online polls are on average showing a small lead for Remain.

Part of today’s poll is due to a methodology change, reintroducing party ID as a weight in addition to past vote. While YouGov’s polls for Scottish, Welsh and London elections earlier this month generally performed very well, there was a consistent overstatement of UKIP support compared to what actually happened. Adding party ID weighting back in addresses that (essentially comparing the YouGov data to the British Election Study data suggested that even with past vote weighting, there were two few people who said they normally identified with “mainstream” parties like Lab & Con, and too many who normally identified with “challenger” parties like UKIP & Grn. This puts that right). The change does does favour Remain a little – in this poll it changed the topline figures by a point, moving it from a three point lead for Remain to a four point lead for Remain.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:Do you seriously think that if we vote to Remain, people who want to leave the EU will lamely shrug their shoulders and forget about it?

Of course they won't. They'll still want to get out, just like some people in Scotland still want to divorce their nation from the rest of the UK.

And I'll be amazed - astonished - if the EU still exists in 20 years for us to have a referendum on it. It's looking doubtful as to whether it can last out another 10 years. One nation will certainly vote to Leave in the next five - if it isn't the UK, it'll probably be either France or Greece - and then the whole lot will come crashing down.

Hello ignorance, how's it going? Haven't seen you out in such force for quite a while!

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:39 pm

Duty281 wrote:Except UKIP have evolved since winning the 2014 European elections to become far more than a one-issue party, which is why they are winning seats on local councils and the Welsh Assembly, as well as having established themselves as the third largest party in the UK (by voter support!).

Hate foreigners? Vote UKIP.

That's still the same trick essentially as the leave EU pony Farage & co have been riding 20 years.

They aren't any broader than that. It's the only reason (bigoted) people vote for them - they blame their problems on something UKIP promises to 'solve'.

They just make up a few random uncosted and ill-thought through policies, and borrow some from other parties, to pad around that.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:43 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Do you seriously think that if we vote to Remain, people who want to leave the EU will lamely shrug their shoulders and forget about it?

Of course they won't. They'll still want to get out, just like some people in Scotland still want to divorce their nation from the rest of the UK.

And I'll be amazed - astonished - if the EU still exists in 20 years for us to have a referendum on it. It's looking doubtful as to whether it can last out another 10 years. One nation will certainly vote to Leave in the next five - if it isn't the UK, it'll probably be either France or Greece - and then the whole lot will come crashing down.

Hello ignorance,  how's it  going? Haven't seen you out in such force for quite a while!

What's wrong with France? Their governing party will inevitably offer a referendum as part of next year's elections to halt the rise of Le Pen.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:45 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Except UKIP have evolved since winning the 2014 European elections to become far more than a one-issue party, which is why they are winning seats on local councils and the Welsh Assembly, as well as having established themselves as the third largest party in the UK (by voter support!).

Hate foreigners?  Vote UKIP.

That's  still the same trick  essentially as the leave EU pony Farage &  co have been riding 20  years.

They aren't  any broader than that.  It's  the only reason (bigoted) people vote for them - they  blame their problems on something UKIP promises to 'solve'.

They  just  make up  a few random uncosted and ill-thought through policies,  and borrow some from other parties, to pad around that.

Yes, bloody UKIP. Leading the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, those damn xenophobes. Bloody UKIP, the only party to have their manifesto checked by an independent economic group, with their ill-costed ideas.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 20 May 2016, 5:47 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The phone pollsters have Remain...18...11...8 points ahead..Unlike online pollsters who have it closer......GE2015 showed online polling being miles out !!..

Whereas I think Out are more motivated and will get the vote out better..

They are too far away for it to matter..

Poor poor campaign..

Phone polling is inaccurate where this referendum is concerned. Some chap at ICM:

“The narrative that phone polls are more likely to be right ignores some fundamental flaws in phone methods. Labour supporters are continually oversampled by phone, and that may matter more than those same phone polls missing out on supposedly pro-’remain’ types, who are disproportionately less likely to turn out to vote."

And YouGov are pretty confident of the same problem existing, saying that groups of people more likely to vote Remain are oversampled on the phone:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/revealed-evidence-greater-skews-phone-polls/

But on the other hand it has  been suggested (UKPollingReport) that the skew is actually part explained by bigoted keyboard  warriors  happy to anonymously click something on a computer but when actually  asked by  a human being over the phone, don't  follow up with the response.

Same goes  for polling issues at elections where disgruntled people will click one thing, maybe even voice something similar,  but in the booth faced with the gravity of their decision, bottles it.

But this is an actual polling organisation who think and have provided evidence to this effect, not a body which merely comments on polling.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 20 May 2016, 6:09 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Do you seriously think that if we vote to Remain, people who want to leave the EU will lamely shrug their shoulders and forget about it?

Of course they won't. They'll still want to get out, just like some people in Scotland still want to divorce their nation from the rest of the UK.

And I'll be amazed - astonished - if the EU still exists in 20 years for us to have a referendum on it. It's looking doubtful as to whether it can last out another 10 years. One nation will certainly vote to Leave in the next five - if it isn't the UK, it'll probably be either France or Greece - and then the whole lot will come crashing down.

Hello ignorance,  how's it  going? Haven't seen you out in such force for quite a while!

What's wrong with France? Their governing party will inevitably offer a referendum as part of next year's elections to halt the rise of Le Pen.

Created the EU and arguably the biggest beneficiary. Too big an economy locked into the Euro. Risks are too high and there's no appreciable reward beyond satiating the bloody lust of some racists (who don't hate the EU, just 'foreigners').

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 20 May 2016, 6:12 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The phone pollsters have Remain...18...11...8 points ahead..Unlike online pollsters who have it closer......GE2015 showed online polling being miles out !!..

Whereas I think Out are more motivated and will get the vote out better..

They are too far away for it to matter..

Poor poor campaign..

Phone polling is inaccurate where this referendum is concerned. Some chap at ICM:

“The narrative that phone polls are more likely to be right ignores some fundamental flaws in phone methods. Labour supporters are continually oversampled by phone, and that may matter more than those same phone polls missing out on supposedly pro-’remain’ types, who are disproportionately less likely to turn out to vote."

And YouGov are pretty confident of the same problem existing, saying that groups of people more likely to vote Remain are oversampled on the phone:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/revealed-evidence-greater-skews-phone-polls/

But on the other hand it has  been suggested (UKPollingReport) that the skew is actually part explained by bigoted keyboard  warriors  happy to anonymously click something on a computer but when actually  asked by  a human being over the phone, don't  follow up with the response.

Same goes  for polling issues at elections where disgruntled people will click one thing, maybe even voice something similar,  but in the booth faced with the gravity of their decision, bottles it.

But this is an actual polling organisation who think and have provided evidence to this effect, not a body which merely comments on polling.

Except UKP is a YouGov blog written by a YouGov Director giving actual intelligent insight and commentary from inside his and other polling organisations. Not just some plum with a laptop and too much spare time.

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Post by Lowlandbrit on Fri 20 May 2016, 7:02 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Created the EU and arguably the biggest beneficiary.  Too big an economy locked into  the Euro.  Risks are too high and there's no  appreciable reward beyond satiating the bloody lust  of  some racists (who don't hate the EU,  just 'foreigners').
Could maybe see some countries following if UK votes to leave, but nobody else is going first unless the currency becomes toxic.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 23 May 2016, 10:20 am

Think the Dutch and Austrians are more likely first movers than the French.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 23 May 2016, 10:41 am

Austrians????

Them's peaceful people!
..... Aren't they????
.....They are, aren't they?

Oh HIM again??? Oh yeah, forgot about him.

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Post by Coxy001 on Mon 23 May 2016, 2:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Your continued optimism will make the Kippers' defeat all the more delicious.

If we vote to Remain, the Kippers are the clear winners. UKIP will get a mass avalanche of support, in such a scenario, from millions of anti-EU Tory and Labour voters and defections from dozens of (mostly) Tory MPs who will finally understand that the only way of getting out of the European Union is to put a political party who are firmly anti-EU into 10 Downing Street.

That's weird.. As recent polls have shown the big swing towards Remain have been conservative voters moving across. picard

You just don't get it do you? What will UKIP bang the drums about when their whole existance has been about immigration and leaving the EU?!? Once the Remain camp have bent the bigoted racist Leave camp over and spluffed all over their faces there will not be another referendum in our lifetimes - there will be nothing that UKIP can resonate with voters on after the EU exit door has been firmly slammed shut.

IMF has come out in response to Boris/Gove/IDS view that "they've got forecasts wrong before" by saying "well yes, we have but after running the numbers we can't actually see any positive in the slightest of a EU exit scenario" (or words to that effect). You ignored my video post surrounding there not being one single independant report that details why or how we'd be better out.

The Leave campaign is getting bent over and smashed so hard on the economy it's begging belief. And what do voters think is most important when voting in GEs? Yup, the economy. Which is probably why the Gove/IDS/Boris (soon to be summoned by Cameron on June 24th and will be told to bend over and take it like a pig) and the rest of the Leave campaign are quickly turning to the racist/bigot card on immigration.

It's getting tiring said Leave campaign individuals merely saying "it's just scaremongering"... "meh, ignore it as they've got a forecast wrong around 5 years ago so can't be trusted" - all the while without being able to provide one factually based reason behind their retorts!?! I mean it must take a fuc*ing idiot to think these guys are speaking much sense!!!!!!!!!!

In the highly unlikely event that Leave wins then you will have solved the "immigration problem" (migration delivered £20bn to the economy over a 10 year period though) as no one in their right mind would want to work here when the country is going belly up.

Where do you work Duty? As it's obviously not a major cosmopolitan city as otherwise you would probably have come to love multiculturalism rather than be a right wing numpty.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 23 May 2016, 2:38 pm

How many farms in a major cosmopolitan city?

I dare say if Coxy lived up a non-opera-going country road community he might be a bit more right wing? The logic seems to suggest so.

Not everyone can live in a fashion conscious, buzzin' cosmo-dised city... city folks have to be fed by right wing basterdes. Wink

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 23 May 2016, 2:42 pm

I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

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Post by Coxy001 on Mon 23 May 2016, 2:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:How many farms in a major cosmopolitan city?

I dare say if Coxy lived up a non-opera-going country road community he might be a bit more right wing?  The logic seems to suggest so.

Not everyone can live in a fashion conscious, buzzin' cosmo-dised city... city folks have to be fed by right wing basterdes. Wink

Don't live in one either, commute to one (that costs £4k a fuc*ing year for the joy of doing so!). And I vote Tory and am fairly centralist, albeit I believe heavily in the NHS and on the other end of the scale don't want any unmotivated fat benefit muncher getting anything in benefits Wink

At least when Turkey joins the EU there'll be a sh|t load of nurses coming over to plug the current shortage!!! That and they have bloody hot birds and make good food. Is pure win win that one.

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Post by Coxy001 on Mon 23 May 2016, 2:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

Still yet to post any report by any independant INSTITUTION!!!!!!!!! picard


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 23 May 2016, 2:58 pm

"Fat benefit muncher".....Negative stereotyping is alive and well....

Your support of the Tory party is purely of a financial nature then....

Which is fair enough..

You spelt institution right...

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 23 May 2016, 5:39 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

Still yet to post any report by any independant INSTITUTION!!!!!!!!! picard


Yes...Professor Patrick Minford of the Institute of Economic Affairs. picard

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 23 May 2016, 6:39 pm

Isn't that the poll tax guy?

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 23 May 2016, 6:50 pm

I believe so!

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 23 May 2016, 6:56 pm

Neutral is a bit of a stretch then. He's a hardcore old school tory.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 23 May 2016, 6:59 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Neutral is a bit of a stretch then. He's a hardcore old school tory.

Oh dear...a dead pig abuser.....

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 23 May 2016, 7:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Neutral is a bit of a stretch then. He's a hardcore old school tory.

Oh dear...a dead pig abuser.....

Sorry about that. Religious obligations you see

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Post by Coxy001 on Tue 24 May 2016, 8:28 am

Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

Still yet to post any report by any independant INSTITUTION!!!!!!!!! picard




Yes...Professor Patrick Minford of the Institute of Economic Affairs. picard

Oh dear. Dear me. Last time I checked Patrick Minford is NOT an INSTITUTION!!!!

Special. Very special.

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Post by rodders on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:23 am

Do you want to:

a) Be unemployed
b) Work >50 hours per week with no annual leave
c) Pay more for goods, services and travel
d) None of the above

Answer a,b,c, d -> vote leave
Answer e -> vote stay

Simple  angel
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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:24 am

rodders wrote:Do you want to:

a) Be unemployed
b) Work >50 hours per week with no annual leave
c) Pay more for goods, services and travel
d) None of the above

Answer a,b,c, d -> vote leave
Answer e -> vote stay

Simple  angel

Doesn't look very simple to me Headscratch

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:30 am

Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

Still yet to post any report by any independant INSTITUTION!!!!!!!!! picard




Yes...Professor Patrick Minford of the Institute of Economic Affairs. picard

Oh dear. Dear me. Last time I checked Patrick Minford is NOT an INSTITUTION!!!!

Special. Very special.

Yes you are. Let me try and make it extra simple for you (it's like talking to Champagne_Socialist all over again!):

Professor Patrick Minford works for the Institute of Economic Affairs. He has led some of their research into the European Union and the possible effects of Leaving. He and his research team have concluded that Leaving would be a positive. Henceforth, the Institute of Economic Affairs supports the UK leaving the EU.

http://www.iea.org.uk/policy-areas/european-union

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:33 am

Professor Patrick Minford has also had an agenda from the outset of this debate. He's always been anti-EU and he's always been for leaving, so any "research" he comes up with has to be taken with a truckload of salt.

The same, of course, can be said for any "research" published by the Treasury.

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Post by Hero on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:40 am

Minford also thought the Poll Tax was a great idea.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:50 am

rodders wrote:Do you want to:

a) Be unemployed
b) Work >50 hours per week with no annual leave
c) Pay more for goods, services and travel
d) None of the above

Answer a,b,c, d -> vote leave
Answer e -> vote stay

Simple  angel

Most of which are either false or speculative statements.

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Post by Hero on Wed 25 May 2016, 11:54 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
rodders wrote:Do you want to:

a) Be unemployed
b) Work >50 hours per week with no annual leave
c) Pay more for goods, services and travel
d) None of the above

Answer a,b,c, d -> vote leave
Answer e -> vote stay

Simple  angel

Most of which are either false or speculative statements.
Most of the views coming out though are speculative in fairness.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 May 2016, 12:03 pm

Indeed. But (b) above always guiles me because it isn't specualtive, it's outright bullsh!t.

We already sit out of the EU working time directives. And we don't owe our annual leave etc to the EU either (as much as I vehemently despise them) TU's did more for that.

Also, if you think the EU is HELPING employment in the UK, then why is unemployment in the EU soooo much higher than in the UK? EU laws & restrictive practices mean major economies like France and Italy have unemployment rates double the UKs, as the the Eurzone average. Spain's is quadruple!!

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Post by Guest on Wed 25 May 2016, 1:15 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Indeed. But (b) above always guiles me because it isn't specualtive, it's outright bullsh!t.

We already sit out of the EU working time directives.  And we don't owe our annual leave etc to the EU either (as much as I vehemently despise them) TU's did more for that.

Also, if you think the EU is HELPING employment in the UK, then why is unemployment in the EU soooo much higher than in the UK? EU laws & restrictive practices mean major economies like France and Italy have unemployment rates double the UKs, as the the Eurzone average. Spain's is quadruple!!
Lazy foreigners?

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Wed 25 May 2016, 1:25 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Indeed. But (b) above always guiles me because it isn't specualtive, it's outright bullsh!t.

We already sit out of the EU working time directives.  And we don't owe our annual leave etc to the EU either (as much as I vehemently despise them) TU's did more for that.

Also, if you think the EU is HELPING employment in the UK, then why is unemployment in the EU soooo much higher than in the UK? EU laws & restrictive practices mean major economies like France and Italy have unemployment rates double the UKs, as the the Eurzone average. Spain's is quadruple!!
Lazy foreigners?

The Spanish are lazy b*stards, that much is true.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Coxy001 on Wed 25 May 2016, 1:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

Still yet to post any report by any independant INSTITUTION!!!!!!!!! picard



Yes...Professor Patrick Minford of the Institute of Economic Affairs. picard

Oh dear. Dear me. Last time I checked Patrick Minford is NOT an INSTITUTION!!!!

Special. Very special.

Yes you are. Let me try and make it extra simple for you (it's like talking to Champagne_Socialist all over again!):

Professor Patrick Minford works for the Institute of Economic Affairs. He has led some of their research into the European Union and the possible effects of Leaving. He and his research team have  concluded that Leaving would be a positive. Henceforth, the Institute of Economic Affairs supports the UK leaving the EU.

http://www.iea.org.uk/policy-areas/european-union

No, you can't now move the goalposts to suit your "argument". http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe

"No sir, I really meant blah blah blah" oh just shut up.

So even if I were to give you the IEA..... Remain has:

IMF
BoE
Nato
IFS
NHS

And I could go on, and on, and on.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:04 pm

The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll) - Page 11 Eu10

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:10 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I live in West Yorkshire at the moment, wonderfully diverse, but I'm not too sure I would describe it as 'cosmopolitan'.

I reserve that for the beautiful continent south of the English Channel.

I shall post this again, a fellow who was right on the ERM and right on the Euro thinks we would be better off out.

http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

Still yet to post any report by any independant INSTITUTION!!!!!!!!! picard



Yes...Professor Patrick Minford of the Institute of Economic Affairs. picard

Oh dear. Dear me. Last time I checked Patrick Minford is NOT an INSTITUTION!!!!

Special. Very special.

Yes you are. Let me try and make it extra simple for you (it's like talking to Champagne_Socialist all over again!):

Professor Patrick Minford works for the Institute of Economic Affairs. He has led some of their research into the European Union and the possible effects of Leaving. He and his research team have  concluded that Leaving would be a positive. Henceforth, the Institute of Economic Affairs supports the UK leaving the EU.

http://www.iea.org.uk/policy-areas/european-union

No, you can't now move the goalposts to suit your "argument". http://www.betteroffout.net/setting-business-free-into-the-global-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe

"No sir, I really meant blah blah blah" oh just shut up.

So even if I were to give you the IEA..... Remain has:

IMF
BoE
Nato
IFS
NHS

And I could go on, and on, and on.

The NHS have spoken as a singular voice in support of REMAIN??

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Post by rodders on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:19 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
rodders wrote:Do you want to:

a) Be unemployed
b) Work >50 hours per week with no annual leave
c) Pay more for goods, services and travel
d) None of the above

Answer a,b,c, d -> vote leave
Answer e -> vote stay

Simple  angel

Most of which are either false or speculative statements.

So you admit that some of it is neither false nor speculative?
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Post by rodders on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:30 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Also, if you think the EU is HELPING employment in the UK, then why is unemployment in the EU soooo much higher than in the UK?

Maybe because it's a lot easier for skilled and semi skilled English speaking brits to hot foot down to Australia or Canada for work and for the less fortunate to snap up a zero hour contract to stay off the unemployment stats.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:44 pm

Polling update.

Survation have a six point lead for Remain in a phone poll (44-38) - that sounds grand for the 'Remain' side, but the same polling organisation had Remain leading by 13 points in a phone poll in February, then 11 in March, 7 in April and 6 today.

The two most recent online polls have had two dead heats (41-41 and 45-45).

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:46 pm

Thatll Probably just end up scaring the remain voters to actually turn up and avoid a situation like in Holland the other week.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:50 pm

The Remain voters will be too busy getting high at Glastonbury, not knowing what a polling station is, and forgetting to register to vote.

The Leave voters will listen to a bit of Vera Lynn, put on their best suit, and vote to save their country.

We must be free or die, who speak the tongue
That Shakespeare spoke: the faith and morals hold
Which Milton held.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 May 2016, 2:57 pm

rodders wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
rodders wrote:Do you want to:

a) Be unemployed
b) Work >50 hours per week with no annual leave
c) Pay more for goods, services and travel
d) None of the above

Answer a,b,c, d -> vote leave
Answer e -> vote stay

Simple  angel

Most of which are either false or speculative statements.

So you admit that some of it is neither false nor speculative?

Some are false. Some are speculative.

Doesn't mean that any are neither.

It's like the old nickle & dime riddle.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 May 2016, 3:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:Polling update.

Survation have a six point lead for Remain in a phone poll (44-38) - that sounds grand for the 'Remain' side, but the same polling organisation had Remain leading by 13 points in a phone poll in February, then 11 in March, 7 in April and 6 today.

The two most recent online polls have had two dead heats (41-41 and 45-45).

ICM put out their weekly EU online poll today. Topline figures were REMAIN 45%, LEAVE 45%, DON’T KNOW 10% and tabs are here. ICM have tended to produce some of the most leave figures and the neck-and-neck result actually follows on from a series of polls showing a small leave lead, but this is due to a change in methodology.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

ComRes had a new EU telephone poll in this morning’s Daily Mail. Topline figures are REMAIN 52%(-1), LEAVE 41%(+3), Don’t know 7%(-2).


And that, my friends, is called reversion to mean.....

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Post by rodders on Wed 25 May 2016, 3:03 pm

Duty281 wrote:The Remain voters will be too busy getting high at Glastonbury, not knowing what a polling station is, and forgetting to register to vote.

The Leave voters will listen to a bit of Vera Lynn, put on their best suit, and vote to save their country.

We must be free or die, who speak the tongue
That Shakespeare spoke: the faith and morals hold
Which Milton held.

Given how much time Milton spent learning his trade in France, Italy and Switzerland it's a good bet he'd be backing the stay in campaign.
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