Weed - Should it be legalised to any extent? (From medical to recreational)

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 8:17 pm

Marijuana is an interesting drug. I know a good few people who find the freedom alcohol enjoys in the country quite frustrating in comparison to marijuana. And with well documented benefits in some medical cases...should we be considered legalising marijuana to any extent? Medical? Recreational?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 8:41 pm

Never tried recreational drugs in my life...Never even smoked a cigarrette ...

However rather than brag... I've taken stuff more harmful for my bodybuilding.. Sad

Answer is yes.......

Boost the economy............It's not as addictive as coffee......Safer than alcohol...Gives people who are in pain comfort....Creates jobs.....No proof legalising it will encourage people to smoke it.. and perhaps more importantly no real evidence it leads to the harder stuff and the public is on the side of legalisation...

Interesting thread..


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Post by Duty281 on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 1:45 am

With how easy it is to get, isn't it already legal? Whistle

But in all seriousness, yes it should be.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 8:51 am

Interesting.
On the alcohol vs. hash argument, I would say that just because one harmful 'drug' is legal, doesn't mean another should be made so.

On the direct subject of marijuana, I think there's definitely a case for legalising Δ9-THC and other marijuana-derived compounds in a medicinally pure form, under prescription, assuming a lot  more research is done re. it's analgesic capabilities etc.

On the subject of marijuana as it is now, I'm not so sure. There's plenty of evidence-based research out there now re. its influence on the development of psychoses but a lot more work needs to be done in that area. If it's taken via smoke, there's a stack of carcinogens going into the lungs as well.
I don't have much problem with it being legalised really although I've never seen the attraction of messing with my brain like that - THCs act via neuronal receptors in the brain (and elsewhere) and that sort of thing is well known for altering synaptic plasticity (the way your neurones interact). In other words, you're likely to be changing your brain's neurochemistry in the long term. If people want to f*** themselves up, that's up to them but there should be no legal recourse if and when anything bad happens as a result of using it. Additionally, if it's going to be legalised there should be a simple, rapid, test along the lines of the breathalyser for alcohol, developed.

Why don't we wait 10-20 years and then do a large survey of the effects that've occurred in Uruguay and whatever U.S. states that've gone pot mad?
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 10:21 am

Not a weed smoker (though dabbled in my younger days) but I probably veer towards legalisation (as opposed to just decriminalisation) on this one.

Navy has written quite eloquently on this above, and I don't know the exactities of the chemical nature of 'weed' as a drug, but in simplistic terms, if you legalise it you can regulate it, you can make it 'safe', you can tax it and you can take the industry away from the underworld.

For those reasons I support the notion, s.t. certain restrictions such as that noted above about road-side testing and it being illegal to be 'under the influence' when driving, operating machinery etc.


I would also say the same principals apply to prostitution.....but that's another thread I guess.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 12:46 pm

Nope - definitely not. Medical studies have shown it basically rots your brain with prolonged use.

For those who use it for medical reasons / pain relief, they should do some research to try and isolate the chemicals that give it its painkilling properties, then produce a drug that has the same effect, but without the adverse effects to your mental faculties.


https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana


Long-term effects

Marijuana also affects brain development. When marijuana users begin using as teenagers, the drug may reduce thinking, memory, and learning functions and affect how the brain builds connections between the areas necessary for these functions.

Marijuana’s effects on these abilities may last a long time or even be permanent.

For example, a study showed that people who started smoking marijuana heavily in their teens and had an ongoing cannabis use disorder lost an average of eight IQ points between ages 13 and 38. The lost mental abilities did not fully return in those who quit marijuana as adults. Those who started smoking marijuana as adults did not show notable IQ declines (Meier, 2012).


Also, for some individuals whose genetic makeup makes them susceptible, there is some evidence it can even cause psychotic episodes and lead to schizophrenia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4337025/



Most people who frequently use it report a mild euphoric feeling and sense of wellbeing, a reason for its continual popularity. However in some individuals, frequent use has adverse consequences and can lead to psychotic symptoms. Adolescents may be particularly sensitive to its effects because of the continued brain growth and differentiation of higher cortical centers that occurs during these specific years of life [3], although this notion has only been conjecture. When a severe acute psychosis does occur in cannabis users, these individuals may be admitted to hospital emergency rooms, but generally clear their mental state over a few hours. In some individuals, however, a primary schizophreniform illness develops and further progresses to chronic schizophrenia. This first episode, in these cases, is often blamed on the cannabis use by patients and their families. Thus, after recovery these individuals may cease taking prescribed medication and in some instances relapse into a more severe chronic schizophrenia illness.



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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 12:52 pm

Medically it should be researched more and used for that. Recreationally I don't mind as long as it's not allowed within hundred feet of my house or where I am as it stinks

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 1:28 pm

Depends on what it is. Standard cannabis that rastafarians are supposed to use seems to have little effect beyond mild euphoria and a little bit of dopiness. The stronger strains like skunk and cheese appear to have serious effects. So I'd probably divide them by strength first then allow the weaker strains. Like Navy I think some sort of breathalyser would have to be developed first though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 2:12 pm

Alcohol rots your brain with prolonged use....and causes more crime related incidents..

I imagine it will be for over 18s right ??...

So the teenage argument really doesn't wash..

Point is it's available now and illegal....It can be purchased readily enough..

Why not legalise it and stop the scum making all the money.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 5:52 pm

Recreational use definitely not, then again I advocate a complete ban on all forms of tobacco.

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Post by Rowley on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 7:33 pm

Don't see why it is not worth a try. I would not be particularly be averse to legalising all drugs. As the 40 odd year "War on Drugs" has proven criminalisation and trillions of dollars and man hours prosecuting users and suppliers achieves pretty much sod all, to either supply and demand. What is does it overcrowd prisons, criminalise people for ridiculous reasons like they like to have a spliff when they get home, or a couple of lines when they go out. That is to say nothing of turning countries such as Mexico and Colombia into virtual Narco States and the problems associated with that (murder, corruption etc)

All that money thrown at enforcement and for what? Drugs are as easy to get now as they ever have been. You legalise them you eliminate the criminality that exists to supply them, you free up countless resources in law enforcement agencies and the courts, you raise tax revenues and perhaps just as importantly you can ensure there is some level of quality control. Nobody will be snorting rat poison or necking poison thinking they are Es. Also all the money you save in enforcement can be used for when people get themselves in a mess through drugs, as they do and always have, be they legal or otherwise.

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Post by Guest on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 7:39 pm

As Bill Hicks famously said about the War on Drugs in America

"There's a war on Drugs...and the people on drugs are winning!"

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 11:48 pm

Rowley wrote:Don't see why it is not worth a try. I would not be particularly be averse to legalising all drugs. As the 40 odd year "War on Drugs" has proven criminalisation and trillions of dollars and man hours prosecuting users and suppliers achieves pretty much sod all, to either supply and demand. What is does it overcrowd prisons, criminalise people for ridiculous reasons like they like to have a spliff when they get home, or a couple of lines when they go out. That is to say nothing of turning countries such as Mexico and Colombia into virtual Narco States and the problems associated with that (murder, corruption etc)

All that money thrown at enforcement and for what? Drugs are as easy to get now as they ever have been. You legalise them you eliminate the criminality that exists to supply them, you free up countless resources in law enforcement agencies and the courts, you raise tax revenues and perhaps just as importantly you can ensure there is some level of quality control. Nobody will be snorting rat poison or necking poison thinking they are Es. Also all the money you save in enforcement can be used for when people get themselves in a mess through drugs, as they do and always have, be they legal or otherwise.

I agree with you entirely, and I shall savour this very warm moment. Very Happy

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 26 Feb 2016, 11:50 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Recreational use definitely not, then again I advocate a complete ban on all forms of tobacco.

The economy would struggle with such a ban, given how much money tobacco rakes in through vast taxation.

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Post by Rowley on Sat 27 Feb 2016, 8:27 am

Duty281 wrote:
Rowley wrote:Don't see why it is not worth a try. I would not be particularly be averse to legalising all drugs. As the 40 odd year "War on Drugs" has proven criminalisation and trillions of dollars and man hours prosecuting users and suppliers achieves pretty much sod all, to either supply and demand. What is does it overcrowd prisons, criminalise people for ridiculous reasons like they like to have a spliff when they get home, or a couple of lines when they go out. That is to say nothing of turning countries such as Mexico and Colombia into virtual Narco States and the problems associated with that (murder, corruption etc)

All that money thrown at enforcement and for what? Drugs are as easy to get now as they ever have been. You legalise them you eliminate the criminality that exists to supply them, you free up countless resources in law enforcement agencies and the courts, you raise tax revenues and perhaps just as importantly you can ensure there is some level of quality control. Nobody will be snorting rat poison or necking poison thinking they are Es. Also all the money you save in enforcement can be used for when people get themselves in a mess through drugs, as they do and always have, be they legal or otherwise.

I agree with you entirely, and I shall savour this very warm moment. Very Happy

I knew we'd get there one day!

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Post by compelling and rich on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:15 am

most ardent weed smokers that i know are all in the majority brain dead morons, not sure how people can say its harmless.it may simply be a case these people already are slightly more brain dead to start with partaking in illegal activities but there is a definite coloration to these people slow wit/reactions and terrible short term memory that all seem to be heavy weed smokers. im more of a lets try and help the nhs out and try to discourage anything thats going to add to the already overwhelmed health service.

most drug dealers i know dont simply deal in just weed, and dont think the police waste much time on the one guy just growing his own.

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Post by huw on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 2:02 pm

compelling and rich wrote:most ardent weed smokers that i know are all in the majority brain dead morons, not sure how people can say its harmless.it may simply be a case these people already are slightly more brain dead to start with partaking in illegal activities but there is a definite coloration to these people slow wit/reactions and terrible short term memory that all seem to be heavy weed smokers. im more of a lets try and help the nhs out and try to discourage anything thats going to add to the already overwhelmed health service.

most drug dealers i know dont simply deal in just weed, and dont think the police waste much time on the one guy just growing his own.

If the Lib Dems recent estimate is to be believed 1 billion pounds a year in tax money should be able to cover the costs of the NHS and educating people about the harm. The less people in prison would again add to the savings.

Make everything legal, think Doug Stanhope got it right:

“If you’re gonna have a pro-drug argument, start the argument where it starts: I have the right to do what ever the hell I want to my own body, if it kills me slowly, happy for me, f*ck you"

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 3:04 pm

In fairness, there are arguments to say that the reason tobacco/cigarettes have never been made illegal is due to the huge tax receipts generated, which more than cover the financial cost to the NHS in particular.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:32 pm

huw wrote:...Make everything legal, think Doug Stanhope got it right:

“If you’re gonna have a pro-drug argument, start the argument where it starts: I have the right to do what ever the hell I want to my own body, if it kills me slowly, happy for me, f*ck you"
An interesting point. I could buy into that if, and only if, the health service costs of people making a chronic mess of themselves are well and truly covered by taxes on those substances they use to f*** themselves up. I would also insist that legalisation of mind altering substances goes hand-in-hand with development of cheap, easy, fast tests for those under the influence. I don't want to be working with colleagues who're a mess where safety is an issue or having idiots in charge of a vehicle while whacked out of their brains.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:32 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:In fairness, there are arguments to say that the reason tobacco/cigarettes have never been made illegal is due to the huge tax receipts generated, which more than cover the financial cost to the NHS in particular.
Has anyone ever really run those numbers properly?
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:37 pm

Thought there had been some quite detailed studies done, though not sure how wide they went re effects. I.e. cost of treating smoke related cancers in smokers was costed but I guess it'd be v hard to try quantify what element of cancer treatments to non smokers was due to other exposure, or what the fair costs of treating babies with health issues following smoker pregnancy etc....

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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:38 pm

the nhs is on its arse, all these taxes that should easily cover from smoking etc are being spent elsewhere.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:40 pm

Yup.

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoking-cost-much-it-makes-treasury/

Does give caveats though. But in verifiable fact intake is double

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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:46 pm

weed would be much more difficult to pin down though, as navyblue eludes to things like accidents while under the influence of the drug, driving/work accidents etc would have to be equated into it.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 09 Mar 2016, 5:52 pm

5 nanograms of THC I think is the limit - no one registers higher than that if they haven't smoked in 24 hours even for hardcore junkies. Only thing is they don't yet have a field device - it'll have to make it to the lab.

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