The Sharapova drug announcement

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Post by sirfredperry on Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

A big announcement on Monday night from Sharapova was not, as some thought, about her retirement but about the shock news that she had failed a drug test at this year's Australian Open.


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:05 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:The questions surrounding the whole situation that need clarification are:-

Why she was on this drug long term when it is only for short term prescription?

As a US citizen did she have a US doctor and if so why was he prescribing a Eastern European favoured drug?

If she has heart problems that she is taking the drug for then it is miraculous she can play such a sport to such a high level over such a long period of time. How does she manage it?


Are you ruling out the possibility that the medicine resolved any EKG irregularities? Isn't that exactly the sort of thing people take medicine for?

I am no medical expert and neither are you but (IN MY OPINION) medicine cannot resolve EKG only help it a bit so still find it impossible to believe she could compete for such a length of time IF she had such a handicap.
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Post by temporary21 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:10 pm

So her and also 17 percent of Russian athletes all happen to share Arthur ashes problem?

It stinks of rotten fish

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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:12 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:JHM she is a US citizen so is it not wholly logical to presume that she has a US-based doctor - after all she has lived there now for 20 years or so. That being the case why would a GP prescribe a drug not used in the US for a medical condition? Oddities that need to be questioned.
This is utter nonsense, just ridiculous and frankly quite stupid.
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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:15 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Again we come back to what each person believes to be cheating.
If you are one of those that believes that time violations, in order to get an edge, is cheating then this comes down to the same thing.
There does not need to be any "rules" JM to be against the spirit of SPORT.
Anything that gives a player, or athlete, an unfair advantage because of the introduction of a drug  in my opinion is cheating.. however you want to
flower it up is up to you.
If it breaks the rules, it's cheating.

Time violations are violations of a rule.

Until 31/12/2015 this stuff wasn't cheating.

After 1/1/2016 it was.

Why is this getting past so many people?
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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:16 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Again we come back to what each person believes to be cheating.
If you are one of those that believes that time violations, in order to get an edge, is cheating then this comes down to the same thing.
There does not need to be any "rules" JM to be against the spirit of SPORT.
Anything that gives a player, or athlete, an unfair advantage because of the introduction of a drug  in my opinion is cheating.. however you want to
flower it up is up to you.
If it breaks the rules, it's cheating.

Time violations are violations of a rule.

Until 31/12/2015 this stuff wasn't cheating.

After 1/1/2016 it was.

Why is this getting past so many people?

Picture diagrams are the only way forward.
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Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:20 pm

Taking PEDs that have not made it into the banned list, then there is hundreds of russians athletes on same PED, makes it clear cheating on national scale.

There is no other way to treat this, russians queing at the doctors to be injected Laugh

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:26 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:The questions surrounding the whole situation that need clarification are:-

Why she was on this drug long term when it is only for short term prescription?

As a US citizen did she have a US doctor and if so why was he prescribing a Eastern European favoured drug?

If she has heart problems that she is taking the drug for then it is miraculous she can play such a sport to such a high level over such a long period of time. How does she manage it?

Asa Hartford.
Arthur Ashe.

Are you ruling out the possibility that the medicine resolved any EKG irregularities? Isn't that exactly the sort of thing people take medicine for?

If you wish to believe such an excuse do so .

We might as well let Armstrong off all his doping if he says he was using it as a preventative measure against a disease he once had and didn't want to return.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:29 pm

Again. Actual evidence for Meldonium actually being a performance enhancer seems rathet thin. Any avaulable evidence is based on sick individuals and to say the same is happening in sport is basically an extrapolation.
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:30 pm

temporary21 wrote:So her and also 17 percent of Russian athletes all happen to share Arthur ashes problem?

It stinks of rotten fish

no, that's not what I said. Some posters could not believe that a top athlete could still compete with a heart condition. I simply gave 2 examples off the top of my head to show that that is not the case.

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Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:33 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Whilst agreeing with you that its good that questions are being asked, I didn't think that article was particularly enlightening.
Oh no, it was certainly not.  In terms of substance the article did not say anything we do not already know.  But that was not my point.  The point is that the view the article took was that there could be more doping going on, and some of it could be being swept under the rug.

Now, that may be so, or that may not be so - and I even grant you that you do raise reasonable points for your side of the argument.  But it is better to have these discussions happening rather than everyone acting like the sport is almost certainly clean and like questioning that cleanliness is somehow unseemly.

There should be open discussions in the media where both sides happily air their views - those who suspect that there may be far more dirt hiding underneath as well as those who suspect it is mostly clean.  No direct accusations with no proof - of course - but also no hysteria at the very suggestion that the sport could - conceivably - be more corrupt than it lets on.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:38 pm

How many times do people have to be told? Unless there is evidence of rule-breaking, I am compelled to remove any statements that before 1st January 2016 she was cheating (unless you word them appropriately, which some posters have repeatedly shown they are incapable of doing, despite previous requests).

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:41 pm

bogbrush wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:JHM she is a US citizen so is it not wholly logical to presume that she has a US-based doctor - after all she has lived there now for 20 years or so. That being the case why would a GP prescribe a drug not used in the US for a medical condition? Oddities that need to be questioned.
This is utter nonsense, just ridiculous and frankly quite stupid.

Well she is a US citizen so that part doesn't fit your description. If a US citizen why is it not logical to assume she has a US-based doctor so I see nothing in that statement to merit your outburst. She has lived there for 20 years so no nonsense there either. And check out what drugs are prescribed in the US for her condition and you get a range of drugs but not what she was taking so cannot see any reason in my statement for your reaction. But feel free to explain what was wrong in my remark.
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Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:43 pm

My opinion with no facts is that she is a cheater and she has confused Magnesium with Meldonium, but since she only has 3-4 years of elementary school, I understand the confussion.

Is this way ok JHM?
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:43 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Again we come back to what each person believes to be cheating.
If you are one of those that believes that time violations, in order to get an edge, is cheating then this comes down to the same thing.
There does not need to be any "rules" JM to be against the spirit of SPORT.
Anything that gives a player, or athlete, an unfair advantage because of the introduction of a drug  in my opinion is cheating.. however you want to
flower it up is up to you.
If it breaks the rules, it's cheating.

Time violations are violations of a rule.

Until 31/12/2015 this stuff wasn't cheating.

After 1/1/2016 it was.

Why is this getting past so many people?

It would seem more the point that you are the one with the blind spot
You fail to see that whether it was legal or illegal before the above dates is not the point
To take a medication because it gives you an unfair advantage over your opponents is Cheating no matter how you choose to look at it.  You would be the first to criticise any MALE  player on tour for doing the same

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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:44 pm

Jahu wrote:Taking PEDs that have not made it into the banned list, then there is hundreds of russians athletes on same PED, makes it clear cheating on national scale.

There is no other way to treat this, russians queing at the doctors to be injected Laugh

So if CVACs are banned tomorrow, Djokovic's whole career is discounted as a cheat, even if he broke no rules?

Erm

Time travel comes to sports administration.
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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:46 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Again we come back to what each person believes to be cheating.
If you are one of those that believes that time violations, in order to get an edge, is cheating then this comes down to the same thing.
There does not need to be any "rules" JM to be against the spirit of SPORT.
Anything that gives a player, or athlete, an unfair advantage because of the introduction of a drug  in my opinion is cheating.. however you want to
flower it up is up to you.
If it breaks the rules, it's cheating.

Time violations are violations of a rule.

Until 31/12/2015 this stuff wasn't cheating.

After 1/1/2016 it was.

Why is this getting past so many people?

It would seem more the point that you are the one with the blind spot
You fail to see that whether it was legal or illegal before the above dates is not the point
To take a medication because it gives you an unfair advantage over your opponents is Cheating no matter how you choose to look at it.  You would be the first to criticise any MALE  player on tour for doing the same

If it's not illegal it's not an UNFAIR advantage. That's why they declare things allowed (legal) or not (illegal). I wouldn't critics any player for doing anything legal.

My only observation on Rafas platelet treatment has been that modern medicine renders historical records incomparable because players in bygone eras hot their careers ended earlier. He's emphatically not cheated with it.


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Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:46 pm

On other news, Toni confirming the legal start against the French exMinister who said Nadal failed dope test in 2012.

Will be a fun hearing this.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:46 pm

Well you have been the first to criticise his use of that you answer the question

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:48 pm

In fairness I think that the CVAC chamber is pushing the boundaries of what should be acceptable, the cost of it means that only the elite are able to afford it.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:48 pm

Socal can afford it
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:50 pm


If it's not illegal it's not an UNFAIR advantage. That's why they declare things allowed (legal) or not (illegal).


A moot point depending on your bias...her advantage was drug assisted
.

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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:50 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Well you have been the first to criticise his use of that you answer the question
Whether I criticise it or not has ZERO bearing on whether it's cheating. If I have criticised it, it's been to criticise it's acceptability (though there's no way to stop it anyway), not its use while allowed.
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Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:50 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Jahu wrote:Taking PEDs that have not made it into the banned list, then there is hundreds of russians athletes on same PED, makes it clear cheating on national scale.

There is no other way to treat this, russians queing at the doctors to be injected Laugh

So if CVACs are banned tomorrow, Djokovic's whole career is discounted as a cheat, even if he broke no rules?

Erm

Time travel comes to sports administration.

Hahaha, nice one.

But Chemical drug is not same as egg chamber that just fakes air pressure.

But that one should be banned too, just because its not available to everyone, or I would allow it say on a GS and let players use same one an hour a day who ever wants it, kind of a like Sauna session.
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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:51 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
If it's not illegal it's not an UNFAIR advantage. That's why they declare things allowed (legal) or not (illegal).


A moot point depending on your bias...her advantage was drug assisted
.
So is Rafas if he ate lots of oranges while growing up. They're still legal aren't they?
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:52 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Again we come back to what each person believes to be cheating.
If you are one of those that believes that time violations, in order to get an edge, is cheating then this comes down to the same thing.
There does not need to be any "rules" JM to be against the spirit of SPORT.
Anything that gives a player, or athlete, an unfair advantage because of the introduction of a drug  in my opinion is cheating.. however you want to
flower it up is up to you.
If it breaks the rules, it's cheating.

Time violations are violations of a rule.

Until 31/12/2015 this stuff wasn't cheating.

After 1/1/2016 it was.

Why is this getting past so many people?

It would seem more the point that you are the one with the blind spot
You fail to see that whether it was legal or illegal before the above dates is not the point
To take a medication because it gives you an unfair advantage over your opponents is Cheating no matter how you choose to look at it.  You would be the first to criticise any MALE  player on tour for doing the same

Show me your irrefutable proof of the reasons Sharapova took the medicine before 1st Jan 2016 and I'll allow you to say what you want. But you can't because there isn't any. the only actual evidence thus far for the reasons is Sharapova's statement, which you choose not to believe. Anything else is supposition and opinion and should be stated as such, not stated as fact.


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Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:52 pm

kingraf wrote:Socal can afford it

We have no proof of that, pics, ticket etc. Just a link to a website to defend Djoko.
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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:53 pm

kingraf wrote:Socal can afford it
He's a lawyer. He can bill for looking in the direction of a client while using it.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:53 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
If it's not illegal it's not an UNFAIR advantage. That's why they declare things allowed (legal) or not (illegal).


A moot point depending on your bias...her advantage was drug assisted
.
So is Rafas if he ate lots of oranges while growing up. They're still legal aren't they?

Oh really BB,, is that the best you can come up with..?? it has given me a laugh if nothing else laughing

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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:55 pm

Meldonium itself is (probably) not a performance enhancer. Stop referring to it as such. Wada themselves acknowledge the ban is more in light of it suddenly being taken by every Oleksandr, Andrey and Vladimir. I suppose I could see it being used to repair the heart following the use of more... penetrative Enhancers, but lets stop saying she was gaining an unfair advantage when there's very little empirical evidence to support that.
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Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:55 pm

Were oranges Organic or with pesticides and growth hormone?

Makes a difference.
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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:57 pm

bogbrush wrote:
kingraf wrote:Socal can afford it
He's a lawyer. He can bill for looking in the direction of a client while using it.

Sounds like something Socal would do as wel!!
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:57 pm

kingraf wrote:Meldonium itself is (probably) not a performance enhancer. Stop referring to it as such. Wada themselves acknowledge the ban is more in light of it suddenly being taken by every Oleksandr, Andrey and Vladimir. I suppose I could see it being used to repair the heart following the use of more... penetrative Enhancers, but lets stop saying she was gaining an unfair advantage when there's very little empirical evidence to support that.

"demonstrates an increase in endurance performance of athletes, improved rehabilitation after exercise, protection against stress, and enhanced activations of central nervous system (CNS) functions".

That constitutes the very definition of a performance enhancing drug.

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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:58 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Well you have been the first to criticise his use of that you answer the question
Whether I criticise it or not has ZERO bearing on whether it's cheating. If I have criticised it, it's been to criticise it's acceptability (though there's no way to stop it anyway), not its use while allowed.

Well you could have fooled me you certainly have hinted as much

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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:58 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
If it's not illegal it's not an UNFAIR advantage. That's why they declare things allowed (legal) or not (illegal).


A moot point depending on your bias...her advantage was drug assisted
.
So is Rafas if he ate lots of oranges while growing up. They're still legal aren't they?

Oh really BB,, is that the best you can come up with..?? it has given me a laugh if nothing else laughing
Making the point they're both legal. Both acceptable, nothing unfair happening.
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Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:59 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Well you have been the first to criticise his use of that you answer the question
Whether I criticise it or not has ZERO bearing on whether it's cheating. If I have criticised it, it's been to criticise it's acceptability (though there's no way to stop it anyway), not its use while allowed.

Well you could have fooled me you certainly have hinted as much
Then you've missed the nuance in my posts.

Whatever reservations I have about any players legality don't include platelet therapy or CVACs.
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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:08 pm

With regard to time violations - whatever the umpire deems to be a time violation is a time violation.  If the umpire doesn't call a time violation it is not a time violation.  It is within the discretion of the umpire, taking into account the specific conditions of the game, to determine whether a time violation has occurred.  The umpire is able to take into account crowd noise, disturbance and other factors.

Now taking a powerful drug for a medical condition one doesn't have, in the belief that it is performance enhancing, is mens rea.  WADA will always be playing catch up when new drugs constantly appear on the scene.  Only time will tell whether Sharapova (& presumably all the other sportspeople using it) had the appropriate medical condition to the appropriate severity that necessitated the use of this drug over a ten year period.  Of course this was a legal loophole.  One wonders what other loopholes such sportspeople were exploiting plus whether untraceable or more difficult to trace drugs were being used (e.g. human growth hormone).  I think Andy Murrays opinion of the matter is spot on.

I find it interesting how people are dismissing the concept of the spirit of the sport, the spirit of not pretending one has a serious medical condition in order to take a powerful drug that does have performance enhancing quality in order to defend what has happened.  Imagine if you were Sharapova's opponent and you knew you were "clean" - what would your reaction be that Sharapova had been taking this drug for the past ten years?

From WADA
"We can confirm that Meldonium was added to the 2016 Prohibited List which took effect on 1 January 2016, having previously been on WADA’s monitoring program for the duration of 2015.

"Meldonium was added [to the Prohibited List] because of evidence of its use by athletes with the intention of enhancing performance."


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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:09 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
kingraf wrote:Meldonium itself is (probably) not a performance enhancer. Stop referring to it as such. Wada themselves acknowledge the ban is more in light of it suddenly being taken by every Oleksandr, Andrey and Vladimir. I suppose I could see it being used to repair the heart following the use of more... penetrative Enhancers, but lets stop saying she was gaining an unfair advantage when there's very little empirical evidence to support that.

"demonstrates an increase in endurance performance of athletes, improved rehabilitation after exercise, protection against stress, and enhanced activations of central nervous system (CNS) functions".

That constitutes the very definition of a performance enhancing drug.
Find a randomised control trial on the efficacy of Meldonium in athletes and I'll change my stance. All Wada did was conflate it's effect on the severely ill with an increase in use by athletes.

http:/www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/sports/tennis/effects-of-meldonium-on-athletes-are-hazy.html?referer=http://www.google.co.za/search?q=Meldonium+evidence+thin&client=ms-opera-mini-android&channel=new&gws_rd=cr&ei=0HbkVoDpAYnTU7CrpSA


To quote Mark Stuart, who being on the European anti doping committee should know a thing or two

" The evidence around whether it is a
performance-enhancing drug is quite thin,”
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Post by temporary21 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:10 pm

Might I suggest that we all calm down a tad?
Theres a lot of disrespecting other posts and jumping the gun here. Which is why nobodies seeing eye to eye
From henceforth here are the ground rules
1) Saying sharapova was foul of the rules from the 1st Jan is fine, as this is correct

2) Before that, it is perfectly ok to speculate about the suspicious nature of her drug taking and
whether it MAY have performance enhanced or not.

3) You CANNOT say she has been factually cheating for 10 years, only from the 1st of Jan by the rules, you of course may speculate but make that very clear

Now lets stop the squabbling

also to answer a question, I do not believe a modern athelete with the physical demands that brings could have a 10 year heart problem, and never show any real signs ever. No medicine is that good.

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:13 pm

kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Yes this powerful drug was not on the WADA list before January 2016, but that doesn't mean it was not cheating.  

Er, well yes it does mean it was not cheating - unless you can refer to a rule that was broken.

Does the "against the Spirit of the Game" count?

As a cricket fan seeing the mythical (and almost certainly completely bulls.hit) spirit of the game brought up made me chuckle

Oh I love the term. I certainly recall the recent WI and Zimbabwe U19 encounter where the term was referenced many times.

If it's within the rules to do certain things, it's very difficult to argue why certain advantages can't be executed. 

It touches many moral nerves. However, it does make for good column inches and debates.

Funny enough Mankading without warning issue probably the only time I feel Father Spirit has been disturbed. It's on a similar plane to not telling your opponent you got a racquet to passing shot that went out. Kinda allowed but mainly a douche move.

Returning back to Maria, having looked it up even further (rare Saturday night in and I've finally exhausted Netflix to the point where I'm just waiting for "Winter is Coming") I'm not convinced meldonium is actually a PED in any case. Yes it increases exercise capacity in the very sick but that is very different to aiding an athlete in athletic perfomance. As far as the eye can see it's basically been banned on the back of one jounal article and the fact that a Poopie of athletes were suddenly using it. Admittedly this is strange but a Poopie of athletes also started using those power balance bracelets back in 2010 and that didn't mean that they were effective.

The thing is (in my experience within pharmacy) I wouldn't know the dose for meldonium to allow for it's enhancing properties to be beneficial without the side effects that comes with that medication. Again, her doctor has a lot to answer for. I am not a fan of "private" doctors for individuals because they will do as instructed by the client regardless of the risks and like the case with Michael Jackson, what happens when a doctor doesn't act  in the best interest and health of their patient. The 2 questions I have would be:

1) How long has meldonium been on WADA's radar in terms of its performing enhancement properties and how long has it taken for them to make the decision to make it illegal?

2) Who out of Sharapova and her doctor pushed for the continuous use for what seems to be for "preventative" measures against illnesses that she isn't suffering?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:16 pm

17% of Russian athletes were taking it for a reason and it's doubtful nigh impossible that they all had heart conditions.

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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:17 pm

also to answer a question, I do not believe a modern athelete with the physical demands that brings could have a 10 year heart problem, and never show any real signs ever. No medicine is that good

And it would have been superseded by a  better and more up to date medication for her medical condition over the period of ten years.. Family doctors do not prescribe medication for a heart condition without consultation with a specialist...?????? Continuous monitoring over that period would have been necessary because of the risks involved.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:24 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Yes this powerful drug was not on the WADA list before January 2016, but that doesn't mean it was not cheating.  

Er, well yes it does mean it was not cheating - unless you can refer to a rule that was broken.

Does the "against the Spirit of the Game" count?

As a cricket fan seeing the mythical (and almost certainly completely bulls.hit) spirit of the game brought up made me chuckle

Oh I love the term. I certainly recall the recent WI and Zimbabwe U19 encounter where the term was referenced many times.

If it's within the rules to do certain things, it's very difficult to argue why certain advantages can't be executed. 

It touches many moral nerves. However, it does make for good column inches and debates.

Funny enough Mankading without warning issue probably the only time I feel Father Spirit has been disturbed. It's on a similar plane to not telling your opponent you got a racquet to passing shot that went out. Kinda allowed but mainly a douche move.

Returning back to Maria, having looked it up even further (rare Saturday night in and I've finally exhausted Netflix to the point where I'm just waiting for "Winter is Coming") I'm not convinced meldonium is actually a PED in any case. Yes it increases exercise capacity in the very sick but that is very different to aiding an athlete in athletic perfomance. As far as the eye can see it's basically been banned on the back of one jounal article and the fact that a Poopie of athletes were suddenly using it. Admittedly this is strange but a Poopie of athletes also started using those power balance bracelets back in 2010 and that didn't mean that they were effective.

The thing is (in my experience within pharmacy) I wouldn't know the dose for meldonium to allow for it's enhancing properties to be beneficial without the side effects that comes with that medication. Again, her doctor has a lot to answer for. I am not a fan of "private" doctors for individuals because they will do as instructed by the client regardless of the risks and like the case with Michael Jackson, what happens when a doctor doesn't act  in the best interest and health of their patient. The 2 questions I have would be:

1) How long has meldonium been on WADA's radar in terms of its performing enhancement properties and how long has it taken for them to make the decision to make it illegal?

2) Who out of Sharapova and her doctor pushed for the continuous use for what seems to be for "preventative" measures against illnesses that she isn't suffering?

Well, I don't think a 20-year old is spending her time looking up obscure Eastern European drugs with potentially helpful sports side effects.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:27 pm

Well, I don't think a 20-year old is spending her time looking up obscure Eastern European drugs with potentially helpful sports side effects.

No but her coach might

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:29 pm

kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Yes this powerful drug was not on the WADA list before January 2016, but that doesn't mean it was not cheating.  

Er, well yes it does mean it was not cheating - unless you can refer to a rule that was broken.

Does the "against the Spirit of the Game" count?

As a cricket fan seeing the mythical (and almost certainly completely bulls.hit) spirit of the game brought up made me chuckle

Oh I love the term. I certainly recall the recent WI and Zimbabwe U19 encounter where the term was referenced many times.

If it's within the rules to do certain things, it's very difficult to argue why certain advantages can't be executed. 

It touches many moral nerves. However, it does make for good column inches and debates.

Funny enough Mankading without warning issue probably the only time I feel Father Spirit has been disturbed. It's on a similar plane to not telling your opponent you got a racquet to passing shot that went out. Kinda allowed but mainly a douche move.

Returning back to Maria, having looked it up even further (rare Saturday night in and I've finally exhausted Netflix to the point where I'm just waiting for "Winter is Coming") I'm not convinced meldonium is actually a PED in any case. Yes it increases exercise capacity in the very sick but that is very different to aiding an athlete in athletic perfomance. As far as the eye can see it's basically been banned on the back of one jounal article and the fact that a Poopie of athletes were suddenly using it. Admittedly this is strange but a Poopie of athletes also started using those power balance bracelets back in 2010 and that didn't mean that they were effective.

The thing is (in my experience within pharmacy) I wouldn't know the dose for meldonium to allow for it's enhancing properties to be beneficial without the side effects that comes with that medication. Again, her doctor has a lot to answer for. I am not a fan of "private" doctors for individuals because they will do as instructed by the client regardless of the risks and like the case with Michael Jackson, what happens when a doctor doesn't act  in the best interest and health of their patient. The 2 questions I have would be:

1) How long has meldonium been on WADA's radar in terms of its performing enhancement properties and how long has it taken for them to make the decision to make it illegal?

2) Who out of Sharapova and her doctor pushed for the continuous use for what seems to be for "preventative" measures against illnesses that she isn't suffering?

Well, I don't think a 20-year old is spending her time looking up obscure Eastern European drugs with potentially helpful sports side effects.

Well a doctor could identify the nice stuff, but she still has the right to refuse.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:30 pm

Why wouldn't she, think of all the gym posers looking up ways to get ripped cheaply.

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Post by Born Slippy on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:32 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:also to answer a question, I do not believe a modern athelete with the physical demands that brings could have a 10 year heart problem, and never show any real signs ever. No medicine is that good

And it would have been superseded by a  better and more up to date  medication for her medical condition over the period of ten years.. Family doctors do not prescribe medication for a heart condition without consultation with a specialist...?????? Continuous monitoring over that period would have been necessary because of the risks involved.

Would the same argument not apply if it was a PED? Sharapova is one of the richest athletes in the world, with a massive team around her. If she was really committed to gaining an advantage, I would expect there to be far better alternatives she could have been taking, rather than something where the evidence it was performance-enhancing is pretty thin.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:33 pm

Where do people get their medication from generally? I know I get mine from my local chemist prescribed locally by my doctor so it will be drugs widely available and ratified for use in UK. So am I being naive to think Sharapova's situation should be similar? Even if it isn't then why is she getting a drug from Russia (regarded a less advanced country) than the one she is living in which (by my research) says she would not have been prescribed the drug she was on.

Those sorts of curious details are what is fuelling rumours/speculation and suspicions.
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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:34 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Why wouldn't she, think of all the gym posers looking up ways to get ripped cheaply.

I know a couple guys on the sauce. Not a single one of them told me they got their pack by looking up heart medication from the middle of Siberia to get better results. Or that they're running a course of anti
fungal cream to see if it makes their biceps bigger.
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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:35 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Where do people get their medication from generally? I know I get mine from my local chemist prescribed locally by my doctor so it will be drugs widely available and ratified for use in UK. So am I being naive to think Sharapova's situation should be similar? Even if it isn't then why is she getting a drug from Russia (regarded a less advanced country) than the one she is living in which (by my research) says she would not have been prescribed the drug she was on.

Those sorts of curious details are what is fuelling rumours/speculation and suspicions.

Prescribing guidelines vary in each country. Some medicines in the uk for example can be over the counter in others.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:36 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Yes this powerful drug was not on the WADA list before January 2016, but that doesn't mean it was not cheating.  

Er, well yes it does mean it was not cheating - unless you can refer to a rule that was broken.

Does the "against the Spirit of the Game" count?

As a cricket fan seeing the mythical (and almost certainly completely bulls.hit) spirit of the game brought up made me chuckle

Oh I love the term. I certainly recall the recent WI and Zimbabwe U19 encounter where the term was referenced many times.

If it's within the rules to do certain things, it's very difficult to argue why certain advantages can't be executed. 

It touches many moral nerves. However, it does make for good column inches and debates.

Funny enough Mankading without warning issue probably the only time I feel Father Spirit has been disturbed. It's on a similar plane to not telling your opponent you got a racquet to passing shot that went out. Kinda allowed but mainly a douche move.

Returning back to Maria, having looked it up even further (rare Saturday night in and I've finally exhausted Netflix to the point where I'm just waiting for "Winter is Coming") I'm not convinced meldonium is actually a PED in any case. Yes it increases exercise capacity in the very sick but that is very different to aiding an athlete in athletic perfomance. As far as the eye can see it's basically been banned on the back of one jounal article and the fact that a Poopie of athletes were suddenly using it. Admittedly this is strange but a Poopie of athletes also started using those power balance bracelets back in 2010 and that didn't mean that they were effective.

The thing is (in my experience within pharmacy) I wouldn't know the dose for meldonium to allow for it's enhancing properties to be beneficial without the side effects that comes with that medication. Again, her doctor has a lot to answer for. I am not a fan of "private" doctors for individuals because they will do as instructed by the client regardless of the risks and like the case with Michael Jackson, what happens when a doctor doesn't act  in the best interest and health of their patient. The 2 questions I have would be:

1) How long has meldonium been on WADA's radar in terms of its performing enhancement properties and how long has it taken for them to make the decision to make it illegal?

2) Who out of Sharapova and her doctor pushed for the continuous use for what seems to be for "preventative" measures against illnesses that she isn't suffering?

Well, I don't think a 20-year old is spending her time looking up obscure Eastern European drugs with potentially helpful sports side effects.

Well a doctor could identify the nice stuff, but she still has the right to refuse.
And she would refuse based on what in 2006? By all accounts she'd have been miles ahead of the curve (at least wrt Wada and even research).
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