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Post by Guest82 on Tue 22 Mar 2016, 2:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Draw is out. Projected quarter finals are
Djokovic v Berdych
Federer v Ferrer
Wawrinka v Nadal
Murray v Nishikori

Del Potro playing Pella in the first round...if he wins that then it is Federer.
Kyle Edmund playing Vesely....if he wins that then it is Djokovic.

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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 8:02 am

Ive got something you can take for a raw nerve Wink

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 8:23 am

Is that it? You bring daddy issues to the forum, use them to suggest a fellow poster might be a poor father, and you react to being put straight like that.

How old are you?
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Post by HM Murdock on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:16 am

Andy not having Mauresmo in his players box in an attempt to improve his focus is a bit odd.

Why is an elite athlete distracted by having his coach in his box?

Also, I tend to agree with those who have commented that Andy's form isn't necessarily linked to becoming a father. A post-AO slump is hardly a new experience for Andy. He's historically had a lot of early round exits at IW and Miami.

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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:11 am

bogbrush wrote:Is that it? You bring daddy issues to the forum, use them to suggest a fellow poster might be a poor father, and you react to being put straight like that.

How old are you?

Funny you should ask that ..it was my next question for you. ooooh Andy would appear to be very grown up.

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Post by Jahu on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:44 am

No he is not grown up, Andy has always been a puppy and behaved like a spoiled kid.

His mom confirmed it he grew that way and was always like that, immature and childish.

Too much money and surrounded by 3-4 ladies at same time, has cost him a lot tennis wise.
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Post by Guest on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:59 am

Despite Mr Murray's well known shortcomings - including the need to write down "must try harder", "focus on each point", "stay in the moment" on the notes he took with him to the court a few years back, Mr Murray is still the most successful British male tennis player since at least the 1940s. It has only been due to the presence of three all time greats of tennis Mr Federer, Mr Nadal, and Mr Djokovic that has prevented him from reaching No. 1 in the men's rankings and has prevented him from winning more grand slam tennis tournaments. Mr Murray has reached 18 Grand Slam Semi Finals, has reached 9 Grand Slam Finals but has won only 2 Grand Slam Titles.

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 2:06 pm

How old are all three of you? Jesus I mean arent you all at least 40? isnt bb about 65?

bb, soemone isnt wrong or weak, just because theyre different to you. Your way is not automatically right. There are multiple ways to successfully bring up kids. The fact hes receptive in himself to his child means theres no chance he will be one of those dads who gives them no love and leaves them emotionally stunted.
This is like the damn Mauresmo pregnancy thing we had. Different, does not mean wrong.

Haddie, I mean me and bb had the same convo youre having but I made sure not to suggest that bb was a bad father, just that there isnt a right or wrong way. I dont now if this is banter or not, but maybe leave it there?

Murray is an extremely strong willed man, but is trying to raise a kid whilst globetrotting and worrying about his game, leaving the child a long way away. Calling him weak is unfairly, almost belligerently harsh tbh.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 2:27 pm

No, I'm nothing like that age, I have teenage kids Smile. Where did that come from?

Someone isn't strong or weak because they're different from me; they're that way because of how they behave. It's beyond parody that we're supposed to believe it's responsible for a grown man to be messed up by the birth of a baby months ago. Fine, if he's short of fitness because he took a month off that wouldn't be too much of an indictment (though it would be short-changing the fans a bit) but if he were really so incapable of functioning away from the baby he probably needs to get it on tour with him.

As for suggesting there's a correlation between folding like a pack of cards and being a loving father, that's a joke and - with respect - can only have been made by someone who hasn't actually done it successfully. Take it from me, being a Dad has got a lot to do with taking the weight of responsibility for other lives, and the last thing you can do in that position is fail those around.

Last week Chris Evert had a go at Djokovic suggesting his comments on prize money were "cultural" and one poster was shocked at this, seemingly suggesting she was in the wrong. I disgreed and suggested his views probably were culturally influenced, because he grew up in an environment where people had real, dangerous problems to live with and perhaps he wasn't infantilised in the way people are over here. Growing up with bombs flying around would tend to make you less stressed up about ladies pay, and it might also help you get over the "trauma" of having a baby. Djokovic himself seems to have handled his fatherhood like, well, a normal guy; really happy, and inspired to do even better.

I kind of like Murray despite himself, but the brutal truth is that he looks like he really needed a strong father figure in his life; too much female influence seems to have had a clear effect on him, poor guy. Despite that I retain enough belief in him to think his slump is not related to the baby and this is more the fantasy of a feminised media.
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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 2:37 pm

You seem to know a lot about people you have never met. You also appear to correlate female, with weakness, and not just on this topic. Thats why I think youre a lot lot older than you claim.
Maybe dont be so opinionated on things you dont fully know about, and this wont keep happening eh?
In short if you claim to know about how Murrays going to be as a father through his tennis, despite knowing nothing about the man and having that kind of feeling toawrds female influence, dont be surprised if people think youre talking s***...

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Post by HM Murdock on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 2:41 pm

temporary21 wrote:trying to raise a kid whilst globetrotting and worrying about his game, leaving the child a long way away.
Is the baby not in Miami?

Kim is there. Surely they wouldn't have left the baby behind?

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 2:43 pm

Im assuming hey didnt travel with a kid that young, and let Judy do the honours. Either way its a pretyty damn tough thing to do, and its not a situation any regular father would deal with

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 2:50 pm

In any case, hes what mildly distracted by a big change in life. Hell be back im sure, hes a strong bloke. Maybe he would have won the AO if not for all the women in his life though...

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 3:10 pm

temporary21 wrote:You seem to know a lot about people you have never met. You also appear to correlate female, with weakness, and not just on this topic. Thats why I think youre a lot lot older than you claim.
Maybe dont be so opinionated on things you dont fully know about, and this wont keep happening eh?
In short if you claim to know about how Murrays going to be as a father through his tennis, despite knowing nothing about the man and having that kind of feeling toawrds female influence, dont be surprised if people think youre talking s***...
I'm NOT the one saying Murray is affected by a baby, that's others. Are you?
I AM speaking from experience of actually having children and successfully bringing them up. Have you?
I'm not the one getting things wrong about other posters, that's you (consequently I have no mistake to correct in that respect).

I wonder on the bases of the above which of us is actually talking about what they know about, and which is just speculating, or, indeed as you would put it, talking s*** ?

That said, people are pretty easy to work out once you've seen them state their unguarded views in anger.


Last edited by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 3:13 pm

temporary21 wrote:In any case, hes what mildly distracted by a big change in life. Hell be back im sure, hes a strong bloke. Maybe he would have won the AO if not for all the women in his life though...
Well it does look like the most successful period of his career concided with having a strong man in charge of him, so there's probably some guidance there.
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Post by YvonneT on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 3:24 pm

Finding it funny how Murray making 50 unforced errors a few nights ago leads to such disagreements on how to be a parent

(I have experience of having children and successfully bringing them up. Probably didn't coincide with BB's experiences or Haddie's or HMM's or anyone else with kids and certainly didn't coincide with those of a touring pro athlete).

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Post by YvonneT on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 3:31 pm

Kim and baby and the in-laws were all in Miami. Possibly they were only on this trip because they have a home there - I don't think Kim travelled that much before, so not sure why she'd want to start now with the hassles of bring a baby along too.

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 3:48 pm

Fair enough. I think you said that maybe theyre working out how theyre going to do this. I dont imagine theyll travel the European clay season, We will see how Murray does there.

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Post by sportslover on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 5:04 pm

temporary21 wrote:You seem to know a lot about people you have never met. You also appear to correlate female, with weakness, and not just on this topic. Thats why I think youre a lot lot older than you claim.
Maybe dont be so opinionated on things you dont fully know about, and this wont keep happening eh?
In Wink  short if you claim to know about how Murrays going to be as a father through his tennis, despite knowing nothing about the man and having that kind of feeling toawrds female influence, dont be surprised if people think youre talking s***...

I'm afraid Old Roger's "No1 Fan Boy" does from time to time post what you would call sh** but unfortunately he is not alone, as is common with most Internet Sites such as V2!

Andy has had a rough time since playing his three matches over three days recently in the Davis Cup, coupled with the birth of his daughter and a few other distractions.

However he will return soon to a better level on Clay I'm sure - Remember last year when he won the Madrid Masters, when he was playing the King of Clay in the final on his home turf, Rafa also took a lot of criticism then, but such is the way with these forums and that's what keeps the likes of bb and another's like him running up 10,000 + posts Wink

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 5:18 pm

Number of posts don't make you right or wrong, or in any trouble of course.

However, calling out one of the toughest players around for being a p*ssy because hes distracted by his newborn, and influenced too much by women is gonna cop some criticism.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 5:41 pm

Like I said, I'm not the one saying he's distracted by his baby. That's you. As so often before, I encourage you to read the posts.

As for him being affected by the absence of a strong male role model, well that's obvious to all. Look at the difference Lendl made in their short time - it was almost like someone wouldn't take his s**t any more and he got it. Really made him too, until he missed the female authority and went back. Now look at the mess!
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Post by kingraf on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 6:07 pm

I remember the days when we used to all sing Kumbaya mah Lord by the camp fire with Marcus leading the hymn. those were good days
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Post by Jahu on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 7:58 pm

So now its my daddy is better than your daddy competition now?

Where has tennis come to Laugh

Also notice since Temp was put to order a few days ago, he is much more seriously sounding and even dishing parenting advice laughing thumbsup
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Post by Danny_1982 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 8:58 pm

I can't accept that Andy's slump is related to becoming a father. I myself became a father to my boy a year ago and I was on a high for a long spell afterwards. I still am in many ways.

Of course, everyone's experience is different. Andy's is also very different to anyone on this forum, but also he can afford solutions to any problem which the rest of us can't. So I personally can't see this slump being related to something so positive. Not when his attitude is so negative right now. I would be astonished if that's related to becoming a father.

There's something deeper wrong in my opinion. I'm not going to assume any daddy issues, none of us know whether there's anything in that, but it can't be argued that he has only fulfilled his potential under Lendl. Not before and not since.

I can't ever remember watching a Murray match and questioning his appetite or desire, but I found myself doing that against Dimitrov.

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:07 pm

I'm sure he's delighted at being a dad. But is he delighted at being a dad who won't see her very much potentially because thousands of miles away?

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:25 pm

Congratulations Danny, it's the best thing ever isn't it? Totally inspired me, and still does 26 years later.

On Murray, it's staggering how he abuses people who are in his corner; and it's not something they appreciate at all judging by all this re-seating business and the expressions. It's not an 'oh Andy will be Andy' thing, they often look pretty p1$$ed off. He must pay them a lot.

People need focus and channelling, and they need to learn it young. Lendl might have been the closest to a paternal authority he's ever had, and boy did he look better for it.
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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:27 pm

temporary21 wrote:I'm sure he's delighted at being a dad. But is he delighted at being a dad who won't see her very much potentially because thousands of miles away?
Then he needs to take her with him, get over it, or retire.

Fairly obvious what the best option is.
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Post by summerblues on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:36 pm

Andy blows up on US HC swing, and we learn from it that he is a good father.

Deep stuff.

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:37 pm

To matters that actually matter Simon is a set up currently in goffin

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:42 pm

Who knows... Maybe he needs more macho men they'll straighten out dem emotions

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Post by summerblues on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:42 pm

I did manage to see Nole vs Thiem. Thiem was in almost every Nole's service game. Had BPs in six separate games, and got to deuce twice more.

Disastrous BP conversion. Only converted one, and that too was Nole's DF. Still, very good match from him.

It needs to be admitted though that Nole brought his B-game, i.e., the game he plays when he is certain he will win in the end, and is not trying to prove a point.

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Post by temporary21 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:43 pm

Couldn't heap more praise on him either. He forced an a game off of novak a lot in that match

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Post by summerblues on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 9:47 pm

Yes, I was very pleased with Thiem. 6:3 6:4 does not sound like much but it was as close a match as 6:3 6:4 can be.

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Post by Calder106 on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 10:39 pm

bogbrush wrote:Congratulations Danny, it's the best thing ever isn't it? Totally inspired me, and still does 26 years later.

On Murray, it's staggering how he abuses people who are in his corner; and it's not something they appreciate at all judging by all this re-seating business and the expressions. It's not an 'oh Andy will be Andy' thing, they often look pretty p1$$ed off. He must pay them a lot.

People need focus and channelling, and they need to learn it young. Lendl might have been the closest to a paternal authority he's ever had, and boy did he look better for it.

First I will say that I don't think the on court verbals do him any good and as I have said earlier on this thread I don't think he should be distracting himself at present with his strong stance on other issues. However this lack of parental authority talk doesn't wash with me. Although separated both his parents stayed in Dunblane and were involved in his upbringing before he left home at 15 to go to the tennis academy in Spain. Like many other young talents in all sports he could have drifted off in his teens or early 20's and basically wasted it. But no he dedicated himself to the game and has achieved more than any British male player has done since the 1930's. Did he just manage this by himself or was there some lessons on hard work and achievement that he learnt from his parents.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 10:58 pm

I reckon he could have been better, and I look at the period with Lendl and the difference from before & after is stark - behaviour, and success.

It can't be proven but there's a strong circumstantial case to be made for connecting the dots.
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Post by LuvSports! on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:11 pm

Goffin with a good win from a set down vs Simon. Probably Nole next.

Interesting matches with Nishi-Monf & Kyr-Rao. Both hard to call. I want Kyr to kick on. WHoever wins that match i think will make the final.

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Post by temporary21 on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:01 am


The berd vs Screech not for another 2 hours, thats 2 am here... do I stay up to see a mangling?

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Post by YvonneT on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:10 am

I seriously hope Murray does a bit better in Monte Carlo, just to avoid going back over all this speculation again. Unfortunately, he usually does quite poorly in a strong draw in his first outing on clay so I expect we can revisit it all again in a fortnight.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 3:14 am

Berdych truly one dimensional, and really dumb with his shot selection. I mean, why hitting right back at Djoko when there's the open court available to him? The whole atp tour is a joke now, when Djoko not even at his best could just sweep this players aside. Gone are the days when we had Fed/Rafa/Murray playing their best or near their best tennis and gave Djoko problems and handed him his losses, at the slams esp.

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Post by temporary21 on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 3:32 am

Dont despair blb, berd brains been like this since 2006. Hes not gonna be novaks rival

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Post by It Must Be Love on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 3:45 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Gone are the days when we had Fed/Rafa/Murray playing their best or near their best tennis and gave Djoko problems and handed him his losses, at the slams esp.

No, how dare you; facing Goffin in the semis and then Raonic in the final is going to be just as hard as in Miami 2011 when he had to beat a 29yo Federer and 24yo Nadal consecutively to win the tournament.
Firstly competition differences don't exist, they're a figment of the imagination, and secondly if you argue competition isn't always equal- you can't technically prove that his matches at 2011 were tougher (I mean who knows... Federer could be tough but Goffin has such great movement yeah), so anyway assuming that the 2011 matches were tougher is just speculation which isn't acceptable and therefore we can assume that the competition in Miami 2011 and 2016 were equal/immeasurable.
Save your wacky theories and this era rubbish for another time, please.
I'm just trying to help you out in advance here, as people are so principled and consistent, just like in the past they're not going to stand and let you get away with this idea.
Actually wait a se...

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Post by It Must Be Love on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 4:17 am

Even if you do believe that Djokovic's competition is slightly easier now due to lack of great young players, we can be very confident that Djokovic's competition will soon get harder because:
"small fluctuations in the short term neutralise in the medium. This is straightforward statistical inevitability. Confidence levels of statistical analysis of populations increase for larger "n" because of this effect."

Or maybe you don't think statistics to do with it, and perhaps it's just wrong to even think that Djokovic may have it easier now than in the past:
"No, not possible to measure precludes the answer being a (possible it's harder for Djoko now) or b (not possible). Think about it, how on Earth can you answer when the answer itself is unknowable?
To provide an answer is akin to religious belief; faith in something that cannot be proven. As I am probably the Worlds most atheist atheist - a position I arrived at having decided that that every reason for religious belief is a symptom of psychological disorder - I'm not likely to plumb for those."


And if all else is failing, it's time to get some quantum mechanics out:
"Well seriously though although surprisingly enough the analogy between quantum mechanics and tennis isn't perfect, he does raise a point about concerning oneself with something that can never be verified. If trying to say which player had better competition within acceptable limits of uncertainty is as futile as say trying to say which electron in an atom is further from the nucleus at an instant in time then the fact that it's completely impossible to answer devalues the question to the point where it's not worth considering."

Basically Goffin is as tough as Federer and Nadal, and to say otherwise means you think an electron in an atom is further from the nucleus at an instant in time, which is clearly wrong.

BLB, I hope you're ready for the barrage that's going to come your way from the highly principled people who never have double standarrrr

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 5:06 am

Wow, IMBL you are really bringing out the needle to stick it to the weak era skeptics.

Novak is playing his B- or C+ level this whole tournament. Thiem will rue this match because Novak was ripe for the taking. I am a little concerned that Novak has been double faulting, he had 9 DFs in two sets against Thiem.

I think Novak is pretty ripe. If Goffin plays a good match I think he can beat Novak. Although in the last year and half, Novak even way off his best level generally still wins even against the better players at the end of tournaments. But the second serve issues worry me, it looks to me like a bit of a stiff back that needs a little time till he can get that snap back.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 5:35 am

Fed, Rafa and Murray may be past their best now so I'll pin my hopes on the younger gen to provide the competition.

At end of 2012 I thought I saw some hope in Jerzy, who played unbelievable tennis at Paris Masters. He's not the typical power hitter kind of modern day player, preferred to rush the net, threw in drop shots, served big and was quick around the court despite his 6'8" frame. Somehow, he just faded away not helped by injury issues. At that time Raonic looked one dimensional compared to Jerzy.

Right now, Raonic may be the only hope we have to provide some competition to Djoko as Raonic now has an improved game and comes with great mentality and belief(though he was badly beaten at IW final); at least until the likes of Zverev, Kygrios mature and get more experienced in the atp daily/weekly grinding tour.

I like Thiem but still find him lacking in varieties, his is more a clay court game; staying well behind the baseline is not going to help him beat Djoko on the HCs.

The young guns are playing mostly power tennis, not much varieties. We are not going to see a Fed, or a younger day Murray, or a Rafa with his unbelievable gets,and unbelievable footwork to cover his BH with his FH; or Djoko's well balanced game from both wings/serve+returns and incredible flexibility.


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Post by socal1976 on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 7:59 am

Good post BLB, I to think that we will see the big challenge from Novak come from the younger kids. I think the young guys play pretty enjoyable tennis, so I am not as negative as you are on their style.

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Post by Born Slippy on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:20 pm

I don't think Murray is past his best. Last year was, by a huge distance, the best tennis he has played consistently in his career. He couldn't quite match an insanely good Novak and Fed played incredibly to stop him at Wimbledon but he was definitely better than 2012/13. He looks to have improved further this year - the second serve is significantly better.

He's obviously spending some time adjusting to his new family circumstances presently. I suspect he probably had a bit too long a break and he still looks rusty and slightly unfit. However, I don't expect the current malaise to last long. I suspect he will look decent on the clay and I'm still hopeful he will raise his game to match Novak in the latter half of the year.

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Post by Born Slippy on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:22 pm

Really hoping Kyrgios destroys Milos tonight. Prat though he is, that would be great for tennis.

Kei and Monf is tough to call but I think Kei will edge it.

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Post by Jahu on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:25 pm

Raonic will dish some crushing to Korgi, show him some decent manners matter on the court and not b!tching like a baby.

Would love Monf to win, but he will screw the next match, so go Ninja go.
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Post by socal1976 on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 1:09 pm

Born Slippy wrote:I don't think Murray is past his best. Last year was, by a huge distance, the best tennis he has played consistently in his career. He couldn't quite match an insanely good Novak and Fed played incredibly to stop him at Wimbledon but he was definitely better than 2012/13. He looks to have improved further this year - the second serve is significantly better.

He's obviously spending some time adjusting to his new family circumstances presently. I suspect he probably had a bit too long a break and he still looks rusty and slightly unfit. However, I don't expect the current malaise to last long. I suspect he will look decent on the clay and I'm still hopeful he will raise his game to match Novak in the latter half of the year.  

Yeah but BS it has been quite some time where his results haven't matched the 2012/13 period. I mean we are talking now 2 and half years. I don't doubt that when he is playing well he still a bigger threat to Djokovic than anyone else maybe Fed on a fast court for three sets would be the other. Still his record against Roger and Novak, combined with the odd losses that he usually suffers belies a lot of what you are saying. I mean can he be playing better than a period he won two slams and an Olympics with the mediocre results (by his high standards) that we have seen? I just find it hard to believe. Yes Novak is better now than he was in that period so that can be a part of it. But he seems to lose to other players at a higher rate than he did back then. Of course you watch him more closely but still. It is hard to say he is playing his best tennis when he hasn't won a slam in 2 and half years and got bombed out early in both these masters events.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 1:25 pm

Kei over monfils, and hoping Kyrgios can upend Raonic. Milos though deserve a lot of credit he looks to have generally improved his returning and his backhand. Last season he broke at a laughable 12 percent rate, this year he is breaking at a 20 percent rate. His backhand looks better to me as well. That is a hugely significant jump. If Milos can stay above that 20 percent mark in returning with his hold percentage over 90 he is going to win a lot of matches and titles this year.

Have to say very impressed also in that Thiem is another youngster who seems to have improved his return percentage a few points from last year now at very respectable 25 percent. Although it didn't look like it when he dropped 15 break chances against Novak.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 2:50 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Really hoping Kyrgios destroys Milos tonight. Prat though he is, that would be great for tennis.

Kei and Monf is tough to call but I think Kei will edge it.
Kyrgios vs Raonic, two huge servers, are you ready for the Wimbledon final in a few years time !!


Last edited by It Must Be Love on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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