Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

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Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Apr 2016, 10:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Top Half

Winers of these two 1/4 finals will meet at the Madjeski in Reading


Saturday 9th April 15:15 Wasps (4) v Exeter (5) BT Sport
Ref: Romain Poite

Recent Form (since Round 6)
Wasps - P10, W9, L1
Exeter - P10, W6, L4

Wasps have been in scintillating form including a massive win at Saracens. Exeter have been more patchy, with two defeats to Saracens since their win over Ospreys sealed the 1/4 final spot. Teams have met once in the AP so far, with Chiefs winning at the Ricoh.

Teams

Wasps
15. Charles Piutau; 14. Christian Wade, 13. Elliot Daly, 12. Siale Piutau, 11. Frank Halai; 10. Jimmy Gopperth, 9. Dan Robson; 1. Matt Mullan, 2. Carlo Festuccia, 3. Jake Cooper-Woolley, 4. Joe Launchbury, 5. Kearnan Myall, 6. James Haskell, 7. George Smith, 8. Nathan Hughes
16. Ashley Johnson, 17. Simon McIntyre, 18. Lorenzo Cittadini, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Thomas Young, 21. Joe Simpson, 22. Ruaridh Jackson, 23. Rob Miller

Exeter Chiefs
15. Lachlan Turner; 14. Jack Nowell, 13. Henry Slade, 12. Ian Whitten, 11. Olly Woodburn; 10. Gareth Steenson, 9. Will Chudley; 1. Ben Moon, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. Moray Low, 4. Mitch Lees, 5. Geoff Parling, 6. Don Armand, 7. Julian Salvi, 8. Tom Waldrom
16. Jack Yeandle, 17. Alec Hepburn, 18. Harry Williams, 19. Damian Welch, 20. Dave Ewers, 21. Dave Lewis, 22. Michele Campagnaro, 23. James Short


Saturday 9th April 17:45 Saracens (1) v Northampton (8) Sky Sports
Ref: Jerome Garces


Recent Form
Saracens - P10, W6, L3, D1
Northampton - P10, W6, L4

Both sides have beaten the other away from home in the AP.

Teams

Saracens
15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. Chris Wyles; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Petrus du Plessis, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Billy Vunipola
16. Jared Saunders , 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Titi Lamositele, 19. Alistair Hargreaves, 20. Michael Rhodes, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Marcelo Bosch, 23. Ben Ransom


Northampton Saints
15. Ben Foden; 14. Ken Pisi, 13. George Pisi, 12. Luther Burrell, 11. Jamie Elliott; 10. Steve Myler, 9. Kahn Fotuali'i; 1. Alex Waller, 2. Mikey Haywood, 3. Paul Hill, 4. James Craig, 5. Christian Day, 6. Courtney Lawes, 7. Ben Nutley, 8. Teimana Harrison
16. Reece Marshall, 17. Campese Ma'afu, 18. Gareth Denman, 19. Victor Matfield, 20. Michael Paterson, 21. Tom Kessell, 22. JJ Hanrahan, 23. Harry Mallinde



Bottom Half

The location of the semi final for winners in the bottom half is much more complicated. Easiest thing to say is a Leicester/Racing semi would be held at the City Ground, Nottingham - otherwise the semi will be in France.


Sunday 10th April 13:45 Leicester (2) v Stade Francais (7) BT Sport
Ref: Nigel Owens

Recent Form:
Leicester - P10, W5, L5
Stade - P8 W2, L6

Each side won at home when these two met in the Pool Stages

Teams

Leicester Tigers
15. Matthew Tait; 14. Telusa Veainu, 13. Peter Betham, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Vereniki Goneva; 10. Freddie Burns, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Marcos Ayerza, 2. Harry Thacker, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Michael Fitzgerald, 7. Brendon O'Connor, 8. Lachlan McCaffrey
16. Greg Bateman, 17. Logovii Mulipola, 18. Fraser Balmain, 19. Ed Slater, 20. Tom Croft, 21. Sam Harrison, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Adam Thompstone


Stade Francais Paris
15. Djibril Camara; 14. Waisea Vuidarvuwalu, 13. Geoffrey Doumayrou, 12. Jonathan Danty, 11. Jérémy Sinzelle; 10. Morné Steyn, 9. Julien Dupuy; 1. Zurabi Zhvania, 2. Remi Bonfils, 3. Rabah Slimani, 4. Hugh Pyle, 5. Alexandre Flanquart, 6. Jonathan Ross, 7. Raphael Lakafia, 8. Sergio Parisse
16. Craig Burden, 17. Dany Priso, 18. Paul Alo Emile, 19. Paul Gabrillagues, 20. Willem Alberts, 21. Julien Tomas, 22. Jules Plisson, 23. Hugo Bonneval


Sunday 10th April 16:15 Racing 92 (3) v Toulon (6) Sky Sports
Ref: Wayne Barnes

Recent Form:
Racing - P8, W5, L3
Toulon - P8, W5, L3

Both teams have beaten the other away from home, most recently being Toulon's win in Paris 8 days ago.

Teams

Racing 92
15. Brice Dulin; 14. Joe Rokocoko, 13. Johannes Goosen, 12. Alexandre Dumoulin, 11. Juan Imhoff; 10. Dan Carter, 9. Maxime Machenaud; 1. Eddy Ben Arous, 2. Dimitri Szarzewski, 3. Luc Ducalcon, 4. Luke Charteris, 5. Francois van der Merwe, 6. Wenceslas Lauret, 7. Bernard Le Roux, 8. Chris Masoe
16. Camille Chat, 17. Khatchik Vartanov, 18. Martin Castrogiovanni, 19. Yannick Nyanga, 20. Manuel Carizza, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Remi Tales, 23. Marc Andreu


RC Toulon
15. Delon Armitage; 14. Josua Tuisova, 13. Maxime Mermoz, 12. Ma'a Nonu, 11. James O'Connor; 10. Matt Giteau, 9. Jonathan Pelissie; 1. Florian Fresia, 2. Guilhem Guirado, 3. Manasa Saulo, 4. Mamuka Gorgodze, 5. Romain Taofifenua, 6. Juan Smith, 7. Charles Ollivon, 8. Duane Vermeulen
16. Jean-Charles Orioli, 17. Xavier Chiocci, 18. Levan Chilachava, 19. Steffon Armitage, 20. Mathieu Bastareaud, 21. Tom Taylor, 22. Eric Escande, 23. Thibault Lassale


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Apr 2016, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:31 pm

A Wasps v Leicester final would be a fitting end to this European Cup.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:37 pm

nathan wrote:Cockers said Burns just had cramp so should be fine

Hope so, he displayed a calm headed control throughout his time on the pitch that was exactly what we needed. Fully deserved the reception from the crowd.

LT agree that the midfield combo of Manu and Betham will terrify most, pace and power there along with the ability to draw in defenders and then release some real finishers in the back three.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:41 pm

They were also scared when Stade were in possession, knowing at any time they would be blindsided by a flying hit.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by nathan on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:45 pm

Pot Hale wrote:A Wasps v Leicester final would be a fitting end to this European Cup.  
Not sure what you mean?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by quinsforever on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:50 pm

it would be fitting. as the french and celtic sides have been gash.

but i think he meant it as an insult.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:53 pm

nathan wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:A Wasps v Leicester final would be a fitting end to this European Cup.  
Not sure what you mean?

I thought he meant taht they are two attacking sides, rather thana the more pragmatic (but more successful?) Sarries and Racing.

Of course if we are talking about fitting because of the new "money oriented" comp - then probably not the most fitting.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Welly on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:00 pm

quinsforever wrote:it would be fitting. as the french and celtic sides have been gash.

but i think he meant it as an insult.

Suspect so, the Irish rugby forums esp Ulster and Leinster forum have plenty of salty comments.


Last edited by Welly on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by quinsforever on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:48 pm

its great to see english club rugby so healthy. we are lucky. it is our time now. and likely will be for a while. the premiership is so tough, and the game so well funded, that combined with the 65% EP criteria means i think its good news for english club rugby and english national rugby for years to come. fingers crossed anyway.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 9:13 pm

quinsforever wrote:it would be fitting. as the french and celtic sides have been gash.

but i think he meant it as an insult.

Maybe best to find out exactly what he meant, before jumping in with your rebuke.

Personally, I would like Tigers to win it, but anyone other than Sarries would do.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 10:38 pm

LondonTiger wrote:They were also scared when Stade were in possession, knowing at any time they would be blindsided by a flying hit.

Morne Steyn was handing out passes to the hospital at a furious rate.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by king_carlos on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 10:59 pm

The way Betham used his pace in defence (and Manu as ever using his sheer strength in the tackle) was very impressive. Betham's done it in many games at 13 where he makes up for his lack of experience and positional instinct there by using his speed to lead a very aggressive blitz whenever he can.

At times I still feel I'm watching a wing at 13 and a guy who hasn't played inside centre too often - i.e. what they are - and fear that their instinct to rush up could be found out against a smarter attack. Thankfully from a Tigers perspective that just wasn't going to happen today with Steyn and Plisson both having terrible games.

Given the stand-out backs there hasn't been as much talk of the forwards but I thought Kitchener was excellent today. He went of the boil for a period this season where Barrow and Fitzgerald had clearly overtaken him. However, over the last few games that he's started again he has looked back to his best, especially with the pitches getting firmer once more.

Barrow was also very good. Given the performance of their fly-halfs Stade reverted to simple game plan of using their big forwards and Danty to crash over the gain line running off Dupuy. Barrow put in a big defensive shift to counter this by hurling his massive frame into tackles over and over again.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 2:10 am

Munchkin wrote:
quinsforever wrote:it would be fitting. as the french and celtic sides have been gash.

but i think he meant it as an insult.

Maybe best to find out exactly what he meant, before jumping in with your rebuke.

Personally, I would like Tigers to win it, but anyone other than Sarries would do.

Precisely Munchkin.

No insult intended at all.

A Leicester v Wasps final would be a fitting end to the Cup.

Both teams played great rugby and would be worthy finalists in the best traditions of the H Cup.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 7:29 am

So long as we do not have a final to rival 2005. The awfulness of that weekem has tainted Embra for the rest of my life.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 9:48 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Doc, Yeah, I had forgotten about Clarke, been missing so long. Wood/Gibson, Picamoles/Dickinson, Clarke/Harrison. Most sides would give their eye teeth for those choices. Plus Brookes/Hill, Hartley/Haywood. The pack is brimming with options.

We do need another 9 & 10 though, Khan is just too slow to get the ball away and is a complete contract to Dickson who gets it away so quick, when on form anyway. As you say, Myler cannot carry on playing the number of games he does without sensible i.e. not JH, cover.

Just looking at the players missing from the squad for yesterday that would have been called first choice, it makes me wonder how we kept in the game, FRONT ROW - Corbs, Hartley, Brookes,  LOCKS - Lawes (okay he was playing 6 as we had no back row available), BACK ROW - Wood, Gibson, Dickinson, BACKS - Dickson, North from the bench Clark, Wilson, Stephenson. That is a whole international front row and close to an all international back row missing.

Forgot, we also need another tight head, Denman is about as much use as a chocolate saucepan, with Brookes and possibly Hill going to be on International duty for the foreseeable seasons ahead, we need a dependable TH that is up to AP level, I do not think Denman would fair very well in the championship, never mind the AP. An older head that can't do the 80 minutes anymore but can see out his career playing a solid 20 minutes each week

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:12 am

Sergio Parisse is a massive bell end.

Seriously such an over hyped guy, classless, who shows no respect to the ref.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:15 am

Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:17 am

LondonTiger wrote:
nathan wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:A Wasps v Leicester final would be a fitting end to this European Cup.  
Not sure what you mean?

I thought he meant taht they are two attacking sides, rather thana the more pragmatic (but more successful?) Sarries and Racing.

Of course if we are talking about fitting because of the new "money oriented" comp - then probably not the most fitting.

"attacking" sides..... Saracens scored the most tries in the pool stages of this year's competition.

More than "exciting" Wasps and Exeter.

Felt bad for Exeter.


Disappointing from Saracens this weekend, struggling vs an understrength Saints, a win is a win I guess. Need to up their game considerably vs Wasps.

Saints lost but will take heart from that. Shows that your strength in depth outside 10 where you are still heavily relying on Myler is looking healthy.

Knew Leicester would thump Stade Francais. Disappointing to have such a woeful side in the 1/4 quarter finals.


Two excellent semi finals to come hopefully.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by bluestonevedder on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:34 am

yappysnap wrote:Sergio Parisse is a massive bell end.

Seriously such an over hyped guy, classless, who shows no respect to the ref.

Can't agree more with this. He's such a petulant bloke, flapping his arms in the air whenever something doesn't go his way. I can't stand it.

Excellent servant to Italian rugby, and was once a great player, but I think he's totally over hyped now. He fell off tackles yesterday, doesn't carry hard enough, and doesn't do much over the ball.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by offload on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 11:09 am

Very much hoping for a Wasps v Racing final and a Wasps win. Would probably be a great spectacle and we certainly don't want to see Sarries or Leicester. Why? They're the two English teams I like the least. Just an opinion of course. Very Happy

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 11:13 am

beshocked wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
nathan wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:A Wasps v Leicester final would be a fitting end to this European Cup.  
Not sure what you mean?

I thought he meant taht they are two attacking sides, rather thana the more pragmatic (but more successful?) Sarries and Racing.

Of course if we are talking about fitting because of the new "money oriented" comp - then probably not the most fitting.

"attacking" sides..... Saracens scored the most tries in the pool stages of this year's competition.

More than "exciting" Wasps and Exeter.

Felt bad for Exeter.


Disappointing from Saracens this weekend, struggling vs an understrength Saints, a win is a win I guess. Need to up their game considerably vs Wasps.

Saints lost but will take heart from that. Shows that your strength in depth outside 10 where you are still heavily relying on Myler is looking healthy.

Knew Leicester would thump Stade Francais. Disappointing to have such a woeful side in the 1/4 quarter finals.


Two excellent semi finals to come hopefully.

Beshocked, scoring tries does not necessarily equate to attacking rugby. Sarries are pragmatic, run the ball less but strike when they have a chance. Sensible and efficient but not attacking.

Tigers a few years back set the record for tries in an AP season playing a very unattractive brand of rugby.

This weekend Exeter played pretty much up yer jumper rugby, but scored the same number of tries as Wasps did playing a more attacking game. There are so many different ways to skin a cat or win a rugby game. Saracens works for them and you should revel in that rather than getting annoyed all the time.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 11:32 am

Impressed by Nigel Owens use of the tmo.

Is it me or is he often paired with the same Welsh chap and they work very well together? Seem to be on the same wavelength and the tmo trusts Nigel to get it right.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 11:33 am

As opposed to the challenge cup game where you had an inexperienced Romanian ref trying to communicate to an Italian tmo, in English, infront of the loudest crowd he's ever seen.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 11:36 am

TMO at WR yesterday was Derek Bevan, ref of the 95 WC final.

Have to say I was getting a bit frustrated just how often the TMO was being used to confirm the original decision. Perhaps co-incidental but usually after a bout of petulance, head shaking and rectangle drawing from Parisse

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 2:29 pm

Londontiger depends what you mean by "attacking", chucking the ball around your 22 is "attacking".

Offloading and linking both backs and forwards is not boring. Saracens have scored some excellent tries, not just up yer jumper give it to Billy type tries. Exeter rely on Waldrom more to score tries than Sarries do on Billy.

Not every game is going to see an offloading masterclass.

Even NZ are a pragmatic side, attacking at the right time, they don't chuck the ball around all the time.

You are right - they choose their moments to pounce but when in full flow Saracens can be great to watch too.

It's about who is "fashionable" and who isn't.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:00 pm

Sarries are a fine proponent of the counter attacking team. They often look stronger when not in possession and give a plethora of possession can at times struggle to make headway. But they are very quick to pounce when they force a mistake.

At the RWC NZ were counter-attacking, Australia attacking and Argentina were probably over-attacking and lost all common sense in their semi final.

Not sure why you deem my description of pragmatic to be an insult, after all when Sarries were at their most attacking this season, against Worcester, you were demanding they be more pragmatic/sensible.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Sarries are a fine proponent of the counter attacking team. They often look stronger when not in possession and give a plethora of possession can at times struggle to make headway. But they are very quick to pounce when they force a mistake.

At the RWC NZ were counter-attacking, Australia attacking and Argentina were probably over-attacking and lost all common sense in their semi final.

Not sure why you deem my description of pragmatic to be an insult, after all when Sarries were at their most attacking this season, against Worcester, you were demanding they be more pragmatic/sensible.

If you watch the Super Rugby, Jaguares are ridiculously over attacking. They have lost 2-3 games they should have seen out. Been disappointed by the results but they are determined to go at every opportunity.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:22 pm

At times Leicester have been guilty of over doing it, and we are lacking a physical stability atm - but sometimes if you want to create a change you just have to accept mistakes will be made. I still view us as a mid-table side that is improving. On our day we can beat anyone (perhaps even Sale Very Happy) but we can also be beaten quite comfortably at times.

The last few years at Leicester has been pretty turgid, so while results may not be much better, at least the games are more enjoyable. Turgid rugby can be lived with when you win things, but when at best you are scraping into AP semis or limping into an away qf in Europe it does become very hard to bear.

Of course teams who are struggling to stay in the AP AND seing turgid rugby will be furious at my self - pity Very Happy


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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:36 pm

I've quite enjoyed watching Sarries on the few occassions I have done this season. In past seasons they were very disliked. Nowadays I don't see what there is to dislike - they used to be a struggling team and now they're always at the top. That's what I always like to see in rugby, it's why I also like Exeter and wasps plus the attacking style they deploy.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:54 pm

mikey dragon I agree. I think the main reason they are disliked is because they are a frustating team to play.

As they focus on territory makes it to harder to pounce on mistakes, set piece has been good which limits turnovers.

They don't have outright pace but the players are tricky. Even Farrell has done some good attacking moves, Goode is an excellent attacking weapon at club level. Ashton is a proven finisher, Barritt's ball carrying is fine for this level, Taylor has good basics. Then there are the big forwards like George,Vunipola bros, Kruis and Itoje.

Hard to overpower too.

Tough to call the semi finals.

Tigers bruising encounter vs Saints this weekend might have an effect. Coming through that unscathed could be crucial.


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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:58 pm

LondonTiger wrote:At times Leicester have been guilty of over doing it, and we are lacking a physical stability atm - but sometimes if you want to create a change you just have to accept mistakes will be made. I still view us as a mid-table side that is improving. On our day we can beat anyone (perhaps even Sale Very Happy) but we can also be beaten quite comfortably at times.

The last few years at Leicester has been pretty turgid, so while results may not be much better, at least the games are more enjoyable. Turgid rugby can be lived with when you win things, but when at best you are scraping into AP semis or limping into an away qf in Europe it does become very hard to bear.

Of course teams who are struggling to stay in the AP AND seing turgid rugby will be furious at my self - pity  Very Happy


Wait a second, you're on top 4 of the Prem and one game away from the champions cup final! And you're a mid-table side?? Erm Headscratch

Quins, Sale and Gloucester are mid-table.

You guys are top end stuff, if you fall below that then that isn't where you should be that's an aberration.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 4:19 pm

I do not see us as, yet, possessing enough ability to be Top4. Yes we may squeak in, but really we are in a group with Saints, Quins and Sale, scrapping for that last spot. All but one of us will be officially mid-table teams. (ie in spots 5-8)

Last two years we have made the play-offs largely due to the failings of other teams, rather than our own ability - and the standard we were at was highlighted bt thrashings at the Rec, Stoop and Kingsholm.


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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 4:27 pm

So strange to see Tiger fans go from haughty to really downbeat about their team in my opinion.

Just have a happy medium. You've got a strong side. Could well win the ERCC and AP. Just need some big games.

Like the Manu-Betham combo.

Having Manu back is a real boost for you.

There's not really any team you should fear if you perform.

I just hope all 4 teams perform well in the semis.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 4:33 pm

Not downbeat, really happy with the way we are playing Just not ready to believe we are world beaters just yet.

Only a personal opinion, but I feel that ever since Dan Hipkiss pinched the title for us right at the death in what is still the best club match I have ever been to, we are a team whose league position has been better than the quality of the players we had available. In part that was because of some poor recruitment (we signed Ryan Lamb for god sake), in part poor development of players. However we still had some real dog about us and would grind results out. However we lacked that quality needed to do well in Europe - hence only a few away 1/4 finals since 2009.

Now we are developing the quality we need to be contenders in Europe - but are still a work in progress.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 4:49 pm

Only need to perform well in 2 games in a row. Got to be in it to win it.

None of these teams left are unbeatable/ world beaters.

I genuinely think there's enough class in your team to do it.

Both Wasps and Saracens were made to look vulnerable in the 1/4 finals.

Do Racing Metro have the mettle?

We'll see.

Now you might well be still the 4th favourite but can't write off Leicester.

This is also the first semi for Racing Metro.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 11:52 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.



Aye, I can see the how the English fans are loving it

"Dismal gate gives European rugby something to worry about
There was plenty for both sides to be concerned about on the field, but around it the number of people assembled to watch was just as perplexing. A gate of 8,050 makes this the worst-attended European quarter-final since Stade Français hosted Pau 15 years ago – and it beats that by a mere 50. There were two four-figure crowds the following year, in 2002, but this is the first since then. Saracens had planning permission to supply the necessary 15,000 seats for a quarter-final venue, but as it became clear their normal capacity of 10,000 was not going to be required, EPCR absolved them of the expense of extending their ground. Northampton are said to have returned all but 600 of their 3,5000 ticket allocation (if so, they were a noisy 600). Actually, the ground did look pretty full, but it is concerning that two old rivals separated by 60 miles of M1 failed to fill a modestly sized stadium for a match as big as this – and a little depressing. Michael Aylwin"

Smile

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by DaveM on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 12:18 am

Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.



Aye, I can see the how the English fans are loving it

"Dismal gate gives European rugby something to worry about
There was plenty for both sides to be concerned about on the field, but around it the number of people assembled to watch was just as perplexing. A gate of 8,050 makes this the worst-attended European quarter-final since Stade Français hosted Pau 15 years ago – and it beats that by a mere 50. There were two four-figure crowds the following year, in 2002, but this is the first since then. Saracens had planning permission to supply the necessary 15,000 seats for a quarter-final venue, but as it became clear their normal capacity of 10,000 was not going to be required, EPCR absolved them of the expense of extending their ground. Northampton are said to have returned all but 600 of their 3,5000 ticket allocation (if so, they were a noisy 600). Actually, the ground did look pretty full, but it is concerning that two old rivals separated by 60 miles of M1 failed to fill a modestly sized stadium for a match as big as this – and a little depressing. Michael Aylwin"

Smile

24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 2:46 am

DaveM wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.



Aye, I can see the how the English fans are loving it

"Dismal gate gives European rugby something to worry about
There was plenty for both sides to be concerned about on the field, but around it the number of people assembled to watch was just as perplexing. A gate of 8,050 makes this the worst-attended European quarter-final since Stade Français hosted Pau 15 years ago – and it beats that by a mere 50. There were two four-figure crowds the following year, in 2002, but this is the first since then. Saracens had planning permission to supply the necessary 15,000 seats for a quarter-final venue, but as it became clear their normal capacity of 10,000 was not going to be required, EPCR absolved them of the expense of extending their ground. Northampton are said to have returned all but 600 of their 3,5000 ticket allocation (if so, they were a noisy 600). Actually, the ground did look pretty full, but it is concerning that two old rivals separated by 60 miles of M1 failed to fill a modestly sized stadium for a match as big as this – and a little depressing. Michael Aylwin"

Smile

24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

Indeed - 21,000 is far greater than any of the Pro 12 clubs could manage for a home quarter-final these days.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by doctor_grey on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 3:49 am

LondonTiger wrote:Not downbeat, really happy with the way we are playing Just not ready to believe we are world beaters just yet.

Only a personal opinion, but I feel that ever since Dan Hipkiss pinched the title for us right at the death in what is still the best club match I have ever been to, we are a team whose league position has been better than the quality of the players we had available. In part that was because of some poor recruitment (we signed Ryan Lamb for god sake), in part poor development of players. However we still had some real dog about us and would grind results out. However we lacked that quality needed to do well in Europe - hence only a few away 1/4 finals since 2009.

Now we are developing the quality we need to be contenders in Europe - but are still a work in progress.
I have to agree the Dan Hipkiss match was one of the best matches I have ever seen.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 3:56 am

Pot Hale wrote:
DaveM wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.



Aye, I can see the how the English fans are loving it

"Dismal gate gives European rugby something to worry about
There was plenty for both sides to be concerned about on the field, but around it the number of people assembled to watch was just as perplexing. A gate of 8,050 makes this the worst-attended European quarter-final since Stade Français hosted Pau 15 years ago – and it beats that by a mere 50. There were two four-figure crowds the following year, in 2002, but this is the first since then. Saracens had planning permission to supply the necessary 15,000 seats for a quarter-final venue, but as it became clear their normal capacity of 10,000 was not going to be required, EPCR absolved them of the expense of extending their ground. Northampton are said to have returned all but 600 of their 3,5000 ticket allocation (if so, they were a noisy 600). Actually, the ground did look pretty full, but it is concerning that two old rivals separated by 60 miles of M1 failed to fill a modestly sized stadium for a match as big as this – and a little depressing. Michael Aylwin"

Smile

24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

Indeed - 21,000 is far greater than any of the Pro 12 clubs could manage for a home quarter-final these days.  


It would be impossible at Ulster. 21 into 18 does not go. We did sell out our first home game v Sarries though, and in the pool stages, and we would sell out a home quarter in the Pro12, should we ever get one Sad

Leinster v Bath QF (last season) near 44k

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:04 am

I honestly don't know why Saracens have such poor attendances. Should be straightforward.

The Commercial team need a kick up the backside. Not filling a 10k stadium against Saints is very poor indeed.

The way Wasps have turned round their finances is impressive. Might have been sacrificing their London heritage to move to Coventry but it's been a successful move so far IMO. Coventry seems to have embraced them.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by doctor_grey on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:18 am

The case of Saracens is strange. Wasps went to Coventry, but also started to ;put a competitive product on the pitch. Saracens already were a competitive outfit when they went to their new stadium. Odd.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:30 am

doctor grey I think perhaps one aspect is pricing. Just did a slight price comparison between Wasps and Saracens.

Saracens are trying to sell some tickets for £75 against Newcastle. Ridiculous! Admittedly the tickets on the higher end but still....

Most of the Wasps seem to be around the £30 and £40 mark vs London Irish.

I have gone off going to the games myself, occasionally I will watch them on TV.

Saracens don't treat their fans well. I used to go a lot but there isn't the respect for the fans. Still my team though

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by doctor_grey on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:46 am

£75 is a lot of money. Imagine if you were a dad who wanted to bring his family for a day out. £300 for a family of four, and that is before any food or drinks. I get you said those are not the cheap seats, but I could see almost £400 for a family.

What do the cheaper options cost?
To everyone else, what do seats cost at your team's building?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:52 am

doctor_grey wrote:£75 is a lot of money.  Imagine if you were a dad who wanted to bring his family for a day out.  £300 for a family of four, and that is before any food or drinks.  I get you said those are not the cheap seats, but I could see almost £400 for a family.  

What do the cheaper options cost?
To everyone else, what do seats cost at your team's building?

Having seen that Saints returned most of their allocation - I wonder what the prices of those were.

Last time I went to Copthall the seats were £45 (but bought on a group deal so in reality cheaper). They were in the ground level seats on the side of the portacabins that the teams changed in (the side the cameras are placed). There was no cover, a lousy view as we were 3rd row and they were non-tiered. It rained constantly and heavily so as a group with 4 children, we left at half time drenched to the skin.

Up to arriving at the seats I had been impressed with the overall experience, from booking and sorting parking etc.


Tigers had done a special deal I believe and ticket prices for Sunday were the same as our last home 1/4 final in 2009. Not completely sure because we got free tickets as part of the compensation package for the late completion of the new stand.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:54 am

I don't probably the cheapest is £20 or £30, kids I am sure get discounts too.

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/price-Rugby-pay/story-25421318-detail/story.html

This is from 2014. Saracens seem to be on the expensive side.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 10:04 am

Sarries offer group discounts, and often free kids tickets with paying adults. The prices are never as high as the actual published price - if you play your cards right. Access to Copthall is not the easiest though and until it is fully developed it will be a touch spartan.

When they first moved it was easy to get BOGOFS, £10 tickets etc - now maybe it is harder as the club try to make money on the sales?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by George Carlin on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 11:10 am

Pot Hale wrote:
DaveM wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.



Aye, I can see the how the English fans are loving it

"Dismal gate gives European rugby something to worry about
There was plenty for both sides to be concerned about on the field, but around it the number of people assembled to watch was just as perplexing. A gate of 8,050 makes this the worst-attended European quarter-final since Stade Français hosted Pau 15 years ago – and it beats that by a mere 50. There were two four-figure crowds the following year, in 2002, but this is the first since then. Saracens had planning permission to supply the necessary 15,000 seats for a quarter-final venue, but as it became clear their normal capacity of 10,000 was not going to be required, EPCR absolved them of the expense of extending their ground. Northampton are said to have returned all but 600 of their 3,5000 ticket allocation (if so, they were a noisy 600). Actually, the ground did look pretty full, but it is concerning that two old rivals separated by 60 miles of M1 failed to fill a modestly sized stadium for a match as big as this – and a little depressing. Michael Aylwin"

Smile

24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

Indeed - 21,000 is far greater than any of the Pro 12 clubs could manage for a home quarter-final these days.  
Ah Pot, but is that really true?

When Edinburgh played Toulouse in the quarters of the then Heineken Cup in 2012, the attendance was almost 38,000.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by killer938 on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 12:20 pm

Leicester are in the situation where they have got to the semi final and only one of their games has been on a Saturday afternoon (away at Treviso). Now obviously they will still get large crowds in but the timing of their matches, along with them being on TV, doesn't lend itself to getting full attendances. It obviously has to be spread out but you would have thought that the suporters should be taken into account as well.

There has also been the stupid scheduling of putting them on at the same time, in both the quarter finals and semi finals, as the football team, which normally wouldn't be as much of a problem but this year is a major headache for those who support both teams. In a year where people should have the opportunity to enjoy the potential success of both teams, people are being asked to choose between them. I can't blame anyone for wanting to choose the football as what is happening this year is absolutely incredible and probably won't be seen again for a very very long time, but it does mean the number of people watching the rugby will suffer because there is no common sense in the scheduling.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 9:12 am

Semi final tickets now purchased.

Oh Happy Day.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by killer938 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 10:06 am

Me too, worth the €40 I had to pay to change my Eurostar ticket back to France as it was at the same time as the match (booked months in advance and didn't even think about checking the dates of the semi finals)

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

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