Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

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Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Apr 2016, 10:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Top Half

Winers of these two 1/4 finals will meet at the Madjeski in Reading


Saturday 9th April 15:15 Wasps (4) v Exeter (5) BT Sport
Ref: Romain Poite

Recent Form (since Round 6)
Wasps - P10, W9, L1
Exeter - P10, W6, L4

Wasps have been in scintillating form including a massive win at Saracens. Exeter have been more patchy, with two defeats to Saracens since their win over Ospreys sealed the 1/4 final spot. Teams have met once in the AP so far, with Chiefs winning at the Ricoh.

Teams

Wasps
15. Charles Piutau; 14. Christian Wade, 13. Elliot Daly, 12. Siale Piutau, 11. Frank Halai; 10. Jimmy Gopperth, 9. Dan Robson; 1. Matt Mullan, 2. Carlo Festuccia, 3. Jake Cooper-Woolley, 4. Joe Launchbury, 5. Kearnan Myall, 6. James Haskell, 7. George Smith, 8. Nathan Hughes
16. Ashley Johnson, 17. Simon McIntyre, 18. Lorenzo Cittadini, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Thomas Young, 21. Joe Simpson, 22. Ruaridh Jackson, 23. Rob Miller

Exeter Chiefs
15. Lachlan Turner; 14. Jack Nowell, 13. Henry Slade, 12. Ian Whitten, 11. Olly Woodburn; 10. Gareth Steenson, 9. Will Chudley; 1. Ben Moon, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. Moray Low, 4. Mitch Lees, 5. Geoff Parling, 6. Don Armand, 7. Julian Salvi, 8. Tom Waldrom
16. Jack Yeandle, 17. Alec Hepburn, 18. Harry Williams, 19. Damian Welch, 20. Dave Ewers, 21. Dave Lewis, 22. Michele Campagnaro, 23. James Short


Saturday 9th April 17:45 Saracens (1) v Northampton (8) Sky Sports
Ref: Jerome Garces


Recent Form
Saracens - P10, W6, L3, D1
Northampton - P10, W6, L4

Both sides have beaten the other away from home in the AP.

Teams

Saracens
15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. Chris Wyles; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Petrus du Plessis, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Billy Vunipola
16. Jared Saunders , 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Titi Lamositele, 19. Alistair Hargreaves, 20. Michael Rhodes, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Marcelo Bosch, 23. Ben Ransom


Northampton Saints
15. Ben Foden; 14. Ken Pisi, 13. George Pisi, 12. Luther Burrell, 11. Jamie Elliott; 10. Steve Myler, 9. Kahn Fotuali'i; 1. Alex Waller, 2. Mikey Haywood, 3. Paul Hill, 4. James Craig, 5. Christian Day, 6. Courtney Lawes, 7. Ben Nutley, 8. Teimana Harrison
16. Reece Marshall, 17. Campese Ma'afu, 18. Gareth Denman, 19. Victor Matfield, 20. Michael Paterson, 21. Tom Kessell, 22. JJ Hanrahan, 23. Harry Mallinde



Bottom Half

The location of the semi final for winners in the bottom half is much more complicated. Easiest thing to say is a Leicester/Racing semi would be held at the City Ground, Nottingham - otherwise the semi will be in France.


Sunday 10th April 13:45 Leicester (2) v Stade Francais (7) BT Sport
Ref: Nigel Owens

Recent Form:
Leicester - P10, W5, L5
Stade - P8 W2, L6

Each side won at home when these two met in the Pool Stages

Teams

Leicester Tigers
15. Matthew Tait; 14. Telusa Veainu, 13. Peter Betham, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Vereniki Goneva; 10. Freddie Burns, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Marcos Ayerza, 2. Harry Thacker, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Michael Fitzgerald, 7. Brendon O'Connor, 8. Lachlan McCaffrey
16. Greg Bateman, 17. Logovii Mulipola, 18. Fraser Balmain, 19. Ed Slater, 20. Tom Croft, 21. Sam Harrison, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Adam Thompstone


Stade Francais Paris
15. Djibril Camara; 14. Waisea Vuidarvuwalu, 13. Geoffrey Doumayrou, 12. Jonathan Danty, 11. Jérémy Sinzelle; 10. Morné Steyn, 9. Julien Dupuy; 1. Zurabi Zhvania, 2. Remi Bonfils, 3. Rabah Slimani, 4. Hugh Pyle, 5. Alexandre Flanquart, 6. Jonathan Ross, 7. Raphael Lakafia, 8. Sergio Parisse
16. Craig Burden, 17. Dany Priso, 18. Paul Alo Emile, 19. Paul Gabrillagues, 20. Willem Alberts, 21. Julien Tomas, 22. Jules Plisson, 23. Hugo Bonneval


Sunday 10th April 16:15 Racing 92 (3) v Toulon (6) Sky Sports
Ref: Wayne Barnes

Recent Form:
Racing - P8, W5, L3
Toulon - P8, W5, L3

Both teams have beaten the other away from home, most recently being Toulon's win in Paris 8 days ago.

Teams

Racing 92
15. Brice Dulin; 14. Joe Rokocoko, 13. Johannes Goosen, 12. Alexandre Dumoulin, 11. Juan Imhoff; 10. Dan Carter, 9. Maxime Machenaud; 1. Eddy Ben Arous, 2. Dimitri Szarzewski, 3. Luc Ducalcon, 4. Luke Charteris, 5. Francois van der Merwe, 6. Wenceslas Lauret, 7. Bernard Le Roux, 8. Chris Masoe
16. Camille Chat, 17. Khatchik Vartanov, 18. Martin Castrogiovanni, 19. Yannick Nyanga, 20. Manuel Carizza, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Remi Tales, 23. Marc Andreu


RC Toulon
15. Delon Armitage; 14. Josua Tuisova, 13. Maxime Mermoz, 12. Ma'a Nonu, 11. James O'Connor; 10. Matt Giteau, 9. Jonathan Pelissie; 1. Florian Fresia, 2. Guilhem Guirado, 3. Manasa Saulo, 4. Mamuka Gorgodze, 5. Romain Taofifenua, 6. Juan Smith, 7. Charles Ollivon, 8. Duane Vermeulen
16. Jean-Charles Orioli, 17. Xavier Chiocci, 18. Levan Chilachava, 19. Steffon Armitage, 20. Mathieu Bastareaud, 21. Tom Taylor, 22. Eric Escande, 23. Thibault Lassale


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Apr 2016, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:29 pm

[quote="George Carlin"]
Pot Hale wrote:
DaveM wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.


24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

Indeed - 21,000 is far greater than any of the Pro 12 clubs could manage for a home quarter-final these days.  
Ah Pot, but is that really true?

When Edinburgh played Toulouse in the quarters of the then Heineken Cup in 2012, the attendance was almost 38,000.

Well I said 'these days'.  I wouldn't count 2012 within that term. But if Edinburgh end up with a home quarter next season and get the same numbers, then that would be a good achievement.  An even better one would be getting 10,000 regularly through the gates for league home games.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:35 pm

Double post

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:02 pm

Like Sale, Worcester, Newcastle, Exeter are this season?

Lets be a little honest, bumper crowds come from big matches, in a tournament redesigned to compliment 2 nations those games are going to dominated by those 2 nations, equating to a few bumper crowds.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:05 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
DaveM wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.


24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

Indeed - 21,000 is far greater than any of the Pro 12 clubs could manage for a home quarter-final these days.  
Ah Pot, but is that really true?

When Edinburgh played Toulouse in the quarters of the then Heineken Cup in 2012, the attendance was almost 38,000.

Well I said 'these days'.  I wouldn't count 2012 within that term. But if Edinburgh end up with a home quarter next season and get the same numbers, then that would be a good achievement.  An even better one would be getting 10,000 regularly through the gates for league home games.

It's still an attendance worth noting. 38,000 for an Edinburgh quarter is some turn-out.

Edinburgh, and a few Pro12 don't get 10k home gates, but then neither do a few of the AP sides. Just a few examples from this season:


R1

Worcester v Saints 8,483

Newcastle v Gloucester 5,049

Sarries v Sale 7,231

Irish v Tigers 6,597

R2

Sale v Worcester 4,356

Wasps v Bath 10, 093 (just over the 10k, but thought worth noting)

Chiefs v Irish 7, 130

R18

Worcester v Irish 9,234

Sale v Tigers 7,687

Newcastle v Wasps 6,725

R19

Irish v Sale 5,541






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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:10 pm

Didn't Edinburgh get 24k for a home game this year too?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:19 pm

Fanster wrote:Didn't Edinburgh get 24k for a home game this year too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Pro12

Yes they did but quite a few of their other games have been around the 3.5k mark.

Atrocious attendance figures.

Munchkin very selective figures.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:26 pm

Is this site ever anything but wang waving?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Scottrf on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:28 pm

Sarries fan criticising another teams attendance. Very Happy

More people buy through groupon offers at the Allianz than season tickets.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:33 pm

beshocked wrote:
Fanster wrote:Didn't Edinburgh get 24k for a home game this year too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Pro12

Yes they did but quite a few of their other games have been around the 3.5k mark.

Atrocious attendance figures.

Munchkin very selective figures.

If by 'very selective', you mean skewed to make AP look bad, you couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious that I simplt picked the first two, and the last two games. I did notice that those figures are recurrent throughout all games, but that that was probably the fairest sample.

Now, beshocked, please do show me how my figures have been 'very selective'. Many thanks...

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:36 pm

Scottrf I already criticised the Saracens attendance but it's still not as low as others.

It's all relative.

Munchkin that's the lowest Saracens attendance this season in the AP, how can that not be selective?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:38 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Is this site ever anything but wang waving?

Not from me. Just adding a bit of balance in comparing AP attendance to Pro12. Neither league is 'all that', when it comes down to the bare facts....

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:39 pm

Munchkin wrote:
If by 'very selective', you mean skewed to make AP look bad, you couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious that I simplt picked the first two, and the last two games. I did notice that those figures are recurrent throughout all games, but that that was probably the fairest sample.

Now, beshocked, please do show me how my figures have been 'very selective'. Many thanks...

Selective in that you ignored any attendance not over 10k (bar 1) I guess.


Now no idea why 10k was set as a bench mark, or even why people felt the need to bring the AP into it, seeing as the discussion started between an Irish and a Scottish poster re Embra.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:40 pm

beshocked wrote:Scottrf I already criticised the Saracens attendance but it's still not as low as others.

It's all relative.

Munchkin that's the lowest Saracens attendance this season in the AP, how can that not be selective?

I picked the first two and the last two. That's the selection method I used. Stop being so precious.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:41 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
If by 'very selective', you mean skewed to make AP look bad, you couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious that I simplt picked the first two, and the last two games. I did notice that those figures are recurrent throughout all games, but that that was probably the fairest sample.

Now, beshocked, please do show me how my figures have been 'very selective'. Many thanks...

Selective in that you ignored any attendance not over 10k (bar 1) I guess.


Now no idea why 10k was set as a bench mark, or even why people felt the need to bring the AP into it, seeing as the discussion started between an Irish and a Scottish poster re Embra.

And what was I responding to? Why would I include figures over 10k, in response to the claim I was responding to?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:41 pm

Theres at least 5/6 AP teams who average well under 10k, Exeter average around 5k don't they?

I never said Edinburghs attendances were great, I wasn't the one who slagged them for not getting 10k every week, when there are a ton of teams in the pro and AP who don't also!

So Edinburghs last crack at euro 1/4 finals is as relevant s Wasps last crack (This year) surely?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:44 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
DaveM wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Great to see English clubs doing so well, thank goodness we finally have a level playing field in the Euro cup.


24k at Wasps and 21k at Leicester though, so no need to despair.

Indeed - 21,000 is far greater than any of the Pro 12 clubs could manage for a home quarter-final these days.  
Ah Pot, but is that really true?

When Edinburgh played Toulouse in the quarters of the then Heineken Cup in 2012, the attendance was almost 38,000.

Well I said 'these days'.  I wouldn't count 2012 within that term. But if Edinburgh end up with a home quarter next season and get the same numbers, then that would be a good achievement.  An even better one would be getting 10,000 regularly through the gates for league home games.

I think this is where the digression started, an out and out accusation that a pro 12 team couldn't manage 21k, where Edinburghs last 1/4 in similar comp was nearly double, AND they've had a 24k home game...

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:45 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
If by 'very selective', you mean skewed to make AP look bad, you couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious that I simplt picked the first two, and the last two games. I did notice that those figures are recurrent throughout all games, but that that was probably the fairest sample.

Now, beshocked, please do show me how my figures have been 'very selective'. Many thanks...

Selective in that you ignored any attendance not over 10k (bar 1) I guess.


Now no idea why 10k was set as a bench mark, or even why people felt the need to bring the AP into it, seeing as the discussion started between an Irish and a Scottish poster re Embra.

And what was I responding to? Why would I include figures over 10k, in response to the claim I was responding to?

I have no idea what you were responding to, I have no idea why you chose the benchmark you did, I have no idea what was a few comments between Pot Hale and George has brought out such a feeding frenzy.

I merely tried to explain why someone would deem the data provided to be selective.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:47 pm

Fanster wrote:Theres at least 5/6 AP teams who average well under 10k, Exeter average around 5k don't they?

No

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:48 pm

Seems to be an awfully high representation of the bottom 3 teams in the AP in your figures.

In R1 you have 10th,11th and 12th at home and Saracens' worst attendance of the entire AP season.

You don't think that's selective?

In R2 again you feature 10th and 12th.

In R18 - both 3 teams again

In R19 - 12th at home.

Do you not see how selective your attendance figures are? Basically focussing on the 3 bottom teams.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Scottrf on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:49 pm

Surely something like a median attendance would be more representative. Highest/lowest don't really show much.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:52 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
If by 'very selective', you mean skewed to make AP look bad, you couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious that I simplt picked the first two, and the last two games. I did notice that those figures are recurrent throughout all games, but that that was probably the fairest sample.

Now, beshocked, please do show me how my figures have been 'very selective'. Many thanks...

Selective in that you ignored any attendance not over 10k (bar 1) I guess.


Now no idea why 10k was set as a bench mark, or even why people felt the need to bring the AP into it, seeing as the discussion started between an Irish and a Scottish poster re Embra.

And what was I responding to? Why would I include figures over 10k, in response to the claim I was responding to?

I have no idea what you were responding to, I have no idea why you chose the benchmark you did, I have no idea what was a few comments between Pot Hale and George has brought out such a feeding frenzy.

I merely tried to explain why someone would deem the data provided to be selective.

Hardly a feeding frenzy, and if it is, you're part of it Very Happy

Your comment, 'selective in that you ignored any attendance not over 10k', would suggest that you think I was being unfair in not including them, while also suggesting that you didn't understand the context of the conversation. I was just pointing you in the right direction. No need to thank me. I'm nice like that angel

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:53 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_English_Premiership_(rugby_union)

Exeter average is probably about 10k.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:54 pm

beshocked wrote:Seems to be an awfully high representation of the bottom 3 teams in the AP in your figures.

In R1 you have 10th,11th and 12th at home and Saracens' worst attendance of the entire AP season.

You don't think that's selective?

In R2 again you feature 10th and 12th.

In R18 - both 3 teams again

In R19 - 12th at home.

Do you not see how selective your attendance figures are? Basically focussing on the 3 bottom teams.

I simply picked the figures, not the teams. The figures picked the teams for me. How on earth do you not get this? Really?

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by beshocked on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:56 pm

Munchkin I don't get your point, so there aren't sides that have 10k + big deal, not every game is going to get 10k +.

Especially tougher for the bottom 3 sides.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Fanster wrote:Theres at least 5/6 AP teams who average well under 10k, Exeter average around 5k don't they?

No

Apologies, Exeter are actually at around the 8k mark, similar to Saracens.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by lostinwales on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Fanster wrote:Theres at least 5/6 AP teams who average well under 10k, Exeter average around 5k don't they?

No

Interestingly enough Exeter are looking to double the size of their stadium (to 20K). Hardly the actions of a team struggling to get support

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:58 pm

beshocked wrote:Munchkin I don't get your point, so there aren't sides that have 10k + big deal, not every game is going to get 10k +.

Especially tougher for the bottom 3 sides.

Except he isn't attacking prem teams for not getting 10k, but responding to an accusation that Edinburgh should.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:59 pm

Scottrf wrote:Surely something like a median attendance would be more representative. Highest/lowest don't really show much.

TBH - trying to compare attendances is pointless, whether it be between clubs, leagues or sports. They are what they are and most teams want more.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 5:02 pm

lostinwales wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Fanster wrote:Theres at least 5/6 AP teams who average well under 10k, Exeter average around 5k don't they?

No

Interestingly enough Exeter are looking to double the size of their stadium (to 20K). Hardly the actions of a team struggling to get support

Exeter's AP attendances this season are almost 11k. That is enough to ensure they break even - but with a capacity of 12.5k, yes they want to extend and build facilities that will increase income over and above match days.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Munchkin on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 5:06 pm

beshocked wrote:Munchkin I don't get your point, so there aren't sides that have 10k + big deal, not every game is going to get 10k +.

Especially tougher for the bottom 3 sides.

Do none of you bother reading the discussion before jumping in? You might actually find why I posted the figures....

It's not a big deal for me. Really it isn't. Read my previous comments if you don't understand that. I wasn't having a go at those below 10k.

As you seem upset that I left some of the Sarries attendances out:


7,231
7,932
42,680 (Twickers, and for Sarries, Worcester, Irish and Wasps).
10,000
10,000
8,742
8,432
9,877
9,749

That's your AP home games this season, so far.

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

Post by Fanster on Thu 14 Apr 2016, 12:42 am

Facts are the biggest reason for thread closures here...

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Re: Champions Cup 1/4 Finals - 9th/10th April

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