Gordon Gekko endorses Bernie Sanders !!

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Gordon Gekko endorses Bernie Sanders !! Empty Gordon Gekko endorses Bernie Sanders !!

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 08 Apr 2016, 11:42 pm

Seems the Socialist has a new surprising admirer !!

In a big shock on CNBC's money program... Asher Edelman.... The notorious corporate raider that Oliver Stone based Michael Douglas character on endorsed Bernie sanders....(The Larry Wildman character was based on the late James Goldsmith who went ape crap apparently if someone suggested he was a corporate raider..)

Host - Who is the best candidate for the economy ??

Edelman - "Bernie Sanders no question !!...It's all about velocity of money...When you have the top 1 percent getting money they spend 5 or 10 percent of what they earn....When you have the lower end getting money they spend 100 or 110 percent of what they earn ..

"As you have a transfer of wealth to the top and a transfer of income to the top you have a shrinking consumer base and a shrinking velocity of money !!..Bernie is the only one talking about fiscal stimulation and banking rules to get banks lending again..."

The guests on the show looked as shocked as Bernie probably did when he heard it..

"Money never sleeps Pal !!....."Greed is good"....... right Bernie ??


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Post by profitius on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 2:45 pm

People don't realise that socialism is largely responsible for the rise of the mega rich. They're rich because they know how to play the system. Very few of them got rich the old fashioned way.


Socalism likes equality. Everybody equally poor.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 3:02 pm

Whilst I like/agree you closing statement. I'm not sure what you mean by getting rich 'the old fashioned way'?

Do you mean tangible product based??

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 3:16 pm

You're both massively over-simplifying his argument. This is a genuine financial expert offering a lot more than you're giving him credit for.

Have a read if you like, here is a link to his article:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/12/real-life-gordon-gekko-supports-bernie-sanders-wall-street-banks-regulation

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 3:22 pm

I've not over-simplified his argument, I've not even addressed it, I've purely commented on Prof's closing remarks and queried one of his comments.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 3:26 pm

Ok, pendant. I'll withdraw that.

But seriously, have a read. He's not advocating socialism or anything like that.

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Post by profitius on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 4:35 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Whilst I like/agree you closing statement.  I'm not sure what you mean by getting rich 'the old fashioned way'?

Do you mean tangible product based??


What I mean by "old-fashioned way" is people being creative like inventors etc. In a free society the cream will rise to the top. In a socialist society the cream is not allow to rise to the top. It more depends on who you know and what your views are rather than what you know.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 4:38 pm

profitius wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Whilst I like/agree you closing statement.  I'm not sure what you mean by getting rich 'the old fashioned way'?

Do you mean tangible product based??


What I mean by "old-fashioned way" is people being creative like inventors etc.

Yeh, a lot of money is made by traders (not just talking about bankers here) and speculators here. But the majority of major wealthy players are still in tangible product industries or where they've invented something, even if just an idea.

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Post by profitius on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 8:44 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Yeh, a lot of money is made by traders (not just talking about bankers here) and speculators here.  But the majority of major wealthy players are still in tangible product industries or where they've invented something, even if just an idea.



Lets take walmart as an example. Socialists hate walmart but little do they know that walmart loves socialism.



Wal-Mart, the Abuse of Eminent Domain and Corporate Welfare

By Stacy Mitchell
Published December 2003
Typical of shopping centers built decades ago, Alameda Square in Denver is a cheap, single-story strip of stores. It’s ugly and rundown. But that does not deter shoppers. Mostly Asian Americans, shoppers come from miles around to patronize more than a dozen locally-owned Asian businesses, including two grocery stores, two restaurants, a hair salon, a clothing shop, a jeweler and a bakery.
On a weekday afternoon, the parking lot buzzes with activity. Inside Pacific Ocean International Supermarket, the dingy exterior gives way to bright lights, shelves stocked with canned bamboo shoots and dried fish and aisles of shoppers.

Most of Alameda Square’s businesses are profitable. Together they generate about $125,000 a year in sales tax revenue. But if the city of Denver has its way, these small businesses will be evicted to make way for a Wal-Mart super-center. The city’s Urban Renewal Authority has threatened condemnation if the property owners refuse to sell and has offered Wal-Mart $10 million in public subsidies. That’s right: Tax dollars would go to one of the country’s most profitable and powerful corporations.

As big chains like Wal-Mart have grown and multiplied over the last decade, tens of thousands of independent businesses have closed. Most people assume that local retailers are being beaten fair-and-square by companies that offer consumers a better deal.
But as Alameda Square vividly illustrates, consumer choices are not all that’s driving the growth of corporate chains. Public policy plays a major role.

Wal-Mart leads the pack in attracting subsidies, this year collecting $10 million in Denver; $500,000 in Dallas; $36.7 million in Scottsdale, Ariz., (as part of a shopping center that includes Lowe’s); $9 million in Bartlesville, Okla.; and $17 million in Lewiston, Maine.
Local officials argue these big stores warrant subsidies because of the jobs and tax revenue they generate. But in most cases the big boxes do more harm than good.

Chris Nevitt, director of the Front Range Economic Strategy Center, one of several groups in Colorado fighting Denver’s plan for Alameda Square, points out that nearby grocery stores and competing businesses will lose sales to Wal-Mart.
“As these businesses shrink or close, hundreds of jobs will be lost, many of which provide higher wages and better benefits than Wal-Mart,’ he argues. Moreover, under the terms of the subsidy, Denver will not see a dime of new revenue until 2016.

Rarely are tax dollars given to local retaiiers. For them, it’s sink or swim in a sea of giant, subsidized competitors.

Some cities have gone so far as to condemn property owned by small businesses in order to turn it over to chain store developers. Last month, Wheat Ridge, Colo., designated property owned by three independent businesses as blighted. The three enterprises—a multi-generation, family-owned automotive repair shop, a billiards hall, and a kitchen cabinet business—will be booted for a Walgreens drugstore. The developer has also been given $500,000 in public subsidies.

Tax policy, too, is riddled with loopholes that benefit chain stores. As the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has documented, about half the states allow national chains to avoid state income taxes by transferring profits earned locally to tax-free states such as Delaware. Small businesses, meanwhile, pay state income taxes on every penny of their earnings.

All of this adds up to a startlingly tilted playing field, a rigged system that can hardly be characterized as free enterprise. Our hometown businesses deserve better.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business_walmart_eminent_domain/


Walmart is a good example of how socialism actually benefits the massive corporations and handicaps the small businesses. Thats what lobbying does. Libertarians will rightly argue that if there was a much smaller government with clearer laws, then it would be a much fairer system for everyone and the middle and lower classes would be better off. Tax would be much much lower so politicians/businesses would have hardly any public money to give to themselves.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:51 pm

Ok, now you've lost me....

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 11:49 pm

....said profitus's last marble

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 9:09 am

profitius wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Whilst I like/agree you closing statement.  I'm not sure what you mean by getting rich 'the old fashioned way'?

Do you mean tangible product based??


What I mean by "old-fashioned way" is people being creative like inventors etc. In a free society the cream will rise to the top. In a socialist society the cream is not allow to rise to the top. It more depends on who you know and what your views are rather than what you know.

Yep the good thing in right wing free societies is that all poor
kids from Brixton to the Bronx get a chance to make it....

Can't move for Hispanics and black people at places like Harvard..

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 9:11 am

Pretty sure Sanders is railing against Walmart being the biggest recipients of corporate welfare in the USA.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 11:06 am

profitius wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Whilst I like/agree you closing statement.  I'm not sure what you mean by getting rich 'the old fashioned way'?

Do you mean tangible product based??


What I mean by "old-fashioned way" is people being creative like inventors etc. In a free society the cream will rise to the top. In a socialist society the cream is not allow to rise to the top. It more depends on who you know and what your views are rather than what you know.

The cream rises to the top? Like our chancellor with his 2:1 in history? Far too often in a free society, it's the rich that rise to the top. We all know that.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 2:06 pm

The rich are already at the top, so that's a bit of a false/moot point.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 2:08 pm

It's not at all. Rich stupid kids often do better than poor clever kids. That doesn't scream free society to me.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 2:31 pm

Pr4wn wrote:It's not at all. Rich stupid kids often do better than poor clever kids..

This thread making the perfect case....

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Post by profitius on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:09 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
profitius wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Whilst I like/agree you closing statement.  I'm not sure what you mean by getting rich 'the old fashioned way'?

Do you mean tangible product based??


What I mean by "old-fashioned way" is people being creative like inventors etc. In a free society the cream will rise to the top. In a socialist society the cream is not allow to rise to the top. It more depends on who you know and what your views are rather than what you know.

The cream rises to the top? Like our chancellor with his 2:1 in history? Far too often in a free society, it's the rich that rise to the top. We all know that.


I was thinking more along the lines of business. You're thinking more of cronyism. As a libertarian would tell you, cronyism exists because of socialism. The more taxes people have to pay, the more "jobs for the boys" there are created. Politicians can give themselves pay rises at will using public money and hire their friends and family. Less taxes would mans less money for all that nonsense.


Also the reason the US politicians get so much lobbying money and politican donations is because the people giving him the money know that he has enough power to pass laws to benefit themselves. So any lobby money or donations is more like an investment.
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Post by profitius on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:13 pm

Pr4wn wrote:It's not at all. Rich stupid kids often do better than poor clever kids. That doesn't scream free society to me.


Why not? Maybe the clever poor kid's parents were lazy or drug addicted, immigrants or something. You can't blame the system for that.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:16 pm

Good old every-man-for-himself libertarianism......If you can't eat or can't afford health insurance...You die...


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:19 pm

Pr4wn wrote:It's not at all. Rich stupid kids often do better than poor clever kids. That doesn't scream free society to me.

Rich stupid kids are already at the top though. They can then become even richer easier because they have greater opportunities opened to them and have lower risk exposure.

But nobody on MIC is coming up with an innovation or business idea that turns them into a multi-millionaire (beyond daddy's trust fund). That's the preserve, and opportunity, of those who have to work for it.

And to respond to Truss' petty jibe, a state school educated kid with bog-standard public sector employed parents now doing alright for himself reinforces my point, not contradicts it. I'm nowhere near the top and suspect I never will be, but I've done ok and better than standing still, not based of parental connections or funding but off hard work and endeavour.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:22 pm

profitius wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:It's not at all. Rich stupid kids often do better than poor clever kids. That doesn't scream free society to me.


Why not? Maybe the clever poor kid's parents were lazy or drug addicted

and maybe they weren't.....Either way you're coming across as an ill informed tiresome little cretin..

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 3:34 pm

Stop it, Truss.

Debate the points. Don't go personal.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:00 pm

Debate what ??.....

Blue collar types are low paid because they are thick....

Lower paid people should pay more because rich people are kind enough to give them work....

Middle and lower classes would be better off under a libertarian system......Where you die if you can't eat or get sick...

I'm supposed to debate that !!!!......Maybe in the first grade.. Cool




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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:19 pm

It's very simple, mate.

Just stay away from personal insults.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:23 pm

I haven't insulted anybody, mate.

I said he was coming across...

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:26 pm

You know exactly what you were doing, please stop it.

Thanks.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 4:49 pm

Would you like me to bump the Donald Trump thread and highlight your double standards ?? Cool

I'm happy to take crap on here.....Some moderators seem happy I take it as well..

and it's fairplay.. thumbsup

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Post by profitius on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 7:49 pm

Good old every-man-for-himself libertarianism......If you can't eat or can't afford health insurance...You die...


https://fee.org/articles/lodge-doctors-and-the-poor/


TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
profitius wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:It's not at all. Rich stupid kids often do better than poor clever kids. That doesn't scream free society to me.


Why not? Maybe the clever poor kid's parents were lazy or drug addicted

and maybe they weren't.....Either way you're coming across as an ill informed tiresome little cretin..


I have a different way of seeing things to most people. I'm certainly not ill informed. If I know nothing of a subject I'm not going to debate people thumbsup
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 8:51 pm

Originality is a virtue...

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