Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

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Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by yappysnap on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 7:30 pm

Vincent Clerc - 35

Brian O'Driscol - 33

Chris Ashton - 31

Ashton is 29, he probably has 4-5 years left in him, if he keeps scoring as he has been then he could smash the current record.

Fair play to him, what ever you think of him as a person he's probably been the best wing in the NH for the last few years and should go down as a European great.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by Cloggie on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 7:36 pm

Well, i'm sorry, but i think his ongoing Ash Splash antics are so disrespectful and unnecessary that they actually blight his record. He will never be a true great in my book.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 2:36 am

Will Greenwood has been writing and speaking in support of Ashton lately.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/04/08/chris-ashton-is-like-marmite---brainless-buffoon-or-english-rugb/

His name hardly came up in the Lions discussion over on the international forum. If he did get himself back in the England starting line-up, though, and showed some of his Saracens form at Test level, then he'd have to be a contender.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:30 am

Ashton is a fantastic player at European level - with the requisite skill and pace to shine. Question has always been whether his flaws are too big when you take the next step up. Certainly once international defences were wise to him (and to be fair when england started playing a different sort of game) he struggled for years.


I so wish Hairy had been close enough to catch him in mid-air yesterday and carry him over the dead ball line.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by nathan on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:42 am

LondonTiger wrote:Ashton is a fantastic player at European level - with the requisite skill and pace to shine. Question has always been whether his flaws are too big when you take the next step up. Certainly once international defences were wise to him (and to be fair when england started playing a different sort of game) he struggled for years.


I so wish Hairy had been close enough to catch him in mid-air yesterday and carry him over the dead ball line.
That surely would of been a tackle in the air?

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:51 am

I don't find Ashton's dives disrespectful but the do scare me when I imagine him blowing a try.

So far, that's one thing he doesn't seem to do. Meanwhile, there's an epidemic of players butchering tries. Usually, it's by dropping the ball as they intend to casually dot in down but there seems to be no end to the ways players can find to avoid scoring. It was criminal the way Elliot didn't focus on grounding the ball in yesterday's match against Saracens.


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:54 am

Rugby Fan wrote:I don't find Ashton's dives disrespectful but the do scare me when I imagine him blowing a try.

That is my main fear, and why I would like him to fail once and perhaps revisit the approach.

Mind my team have been guilty of butchering any number of tries by failing to actually ground the ball when under no real pressure.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:55 am

nathan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Ashton is a fantastic player at European level - with the requisite skill and pace to shine. Question has always been whether his flaws are too big when you take the next step up. Certainly once international defences were wise to him (and to be fair when england started playing a different sort of game) he struggled for years.


I so wish Hairy had been close enough to catch him in mid-air yesterday and carry him over the dead ball line.
That surely would of been a tackle in the air?

Is there a difference between a man who leaves the ground top catch the ball and one who jumps when in possession?

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by TJ on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 9:35 am

IIRC thats a complex one - you are not allowed to jump into a tackle when carrying the ball - but equally you are not allowed to tackle the man in the air.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 12:55 pm

No law to say you can't jump as someone tries to tackle you.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 5:51 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No law to say you can't jump as someone tries to tackle you.

No, but it can be penalised as dangerous play

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by Notch on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:58 pm

If you're jumping over the try line, you should still be able to be tackled. And if you are you should be penalised for jumping into the tackle.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by quinsforever on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:52 pm

no such thing as penalised for jumping into the tackle. only dangerous play if deemed so by refs.

and yes there is a difference between jumping with or without the ball as was asked above. jumping with the ball you can be tackled. jumping without the ball you cannot.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 10 Apr 2016, 10:29 pm

Jumping into the tackle might be dangerous play. Diving over the line is not. Nor would a defender be penalised for tackling a player who is diving over the line provided it was not a shoulder barge which one quite often sees.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by George Carlin on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 3:09 am

I used to think that Ashton was a remarkably large tool for the swan diving but then I saw him interviewed where he contritely admitted that he just gets over-excited. He was fine with me after that. He's just a rugby-daft lad and and are certainly worse things to be.

I think that familiarity has breed a little contempt amongst England fans over the years. A winger's job is to score above all and you cannot argue that Ashton has been anything other than stellar.

It's also common to undersell how difficult it is to track phase play accurately and be in the correct place at the right time. Be in no doubt that it often separates the good backline players from the great ones. There are definitely faster and more agile wingers than Tim Visser for example (and almost everyone on the field is better defensively), but there are hardly any who seem to be in the position to take the try scoring pas every damn time. Ashton is in the same vein.

Also can't help but feel that the fact we are so used to CA adds to the ambivalence of many. Happens a lot. Mark Cueto is (I think) still the top premiership try scorer of all time but because he will never be the flair player that Rory Underwood or Christian Wade was/is, I know a lot of England fans who will never admit that he was actually any good. And so the world spins on its arse.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 7:20 am

Mark Cueto was a good player, as is Ashton. Main problem with Ashton was he stopped wcoring for England so other parts of his game came under the spotlight.

PS - I would never have described Rory as a flair player, quick and strong yes, but in that family Gary had the flair but no pace, Tony flair and pace but not the same muscular strength.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 8:34 am

What Ashton needed a few years back was a long term injury, there's nothing like being unable to play for a long period to build up your legend.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 8:38 am

New coach helps. It resets the chances he's had somewhat. Now it's well our wingers were never any good under Lancaster, Catt and Farrell. To be fair to Ashton if he continues playing well he will get the chance, surely his final final chance, to impress in Aus.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by offload on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 9:11 am

Ashton is what he is, a very large door handle. No amount of tries will change that. So it doesn't matter if he leads the record book or not, he will never be a "great".
Just my opinion of course. Smile

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by quinsforever on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:04 am

i like ashton. he's honest and extremely enthusiastic. if teams dont like his swan dive they should try to stop him scoring. simple as.

the whole disrespect thing about his swan dive that people come out with is utter hypocrisy. stick a microphone anywhere near the scrum or breakdown and one will find 50 worse things every game...but thats all ok cause it doesnt get heard?...or only occasionally anyway Wink

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:25 am

Ashton is a fool but a proven try scorer.

He's an useful player to have as long as you can put up with his stupidity.

Still has to redeem himself at international level but if he keeps scoring tries, with a new coaching setup he might well be able to refind his international form.

Let's not forget that under Johnson, Ashton was a excellent try scorer, his record under Lancaster though was pretty poor.

I've have suggested that perhaps Lancaster's management just wasn't suited to Ashton.

Perhaps Eddie Jones could redeem him, maybe-maybe not.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 2:11 pm

The poor mans Tom Varndell.

But eah, joking asid eyou cant argue with tries and Jones seems to like a good strike winger.

I dont think many people can dispute Lancasters decidsion to drop Ashton, but that sdoesnt mean the door needs to stay shut. Hes fit and back on form, pity hes still a bit of a fool, but again that doesnt seem to bother Jones so much if he can deliver on the pitch.


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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 5:25 pm

Why is Ashton a fool?

What's he done that no one else does? As far as I can tell bar one truly stupid incident of hair pulling his conduct isn't particularly different to most other edgy/clumsy players.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by beshocked on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 5:35 pm

He sometimes gets involved in incidents when he should just not. Like the Watson-Goode incident.

Provoking other players/fans. He's not the only player to do this but other players are fools too.

Also he had a golden opportunity to stake a claim for an England spot in the 6 nations but got himself banned for 10 weeks with a clumsy challenge.

Some of his tackling technique is clumsy too.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 5:44 pm

Clumsy does not make him a fool.

I do sometimes fel he has an inferiority complex and all the bravado is to try and rpove to himself he belongs with the big boys.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by yappysnap on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 6:20 pm

I always think he's scared shirtless at times and it's his way of (over) compensating for it.

Farrell to my mind is your stereotypical idiot, bigger and stronger then most 10s and not afraid of contact, so uses that to make borderline challenges on people.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by doctor_grey on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 10:55 pm

So I suppose if he gets the record then he will have shown the world he is one of Rugby's finest players......

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by beshocked on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:10 am

Yappysnap Neither Farrell Sr or Ashton are the brightest lads around. Rugby is what they know, it's what they are good at but sometimes they go over the edge.

Londontiger you call him what you want. I think him and Farrell Sr are fools, good rugby players though.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:41 am

Farrell used to get George Ford to do his homework.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by beshocked on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:44 am

Not sure if you're joking or not but wouldn't surprise me.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 9:47 am

beshocked wrote:Not sure if you're joking or not but wouldn't surprise me.

Not joking. It was mentioned in a joint interview they did for RFU.TV (or whatever they call it). As I remember it meant they could get outside quicker to practice kicking and stuff. That Ford was the year below at school, says a lot about the quality of Owen's schoolwork.

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Re: Chris Ashton to be Europe's All Time Try Scorer

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