Aviva Premiership - Round 20

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Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Apr 2016, 10:48 am

First topic message reminder :

Table



Fixtures

Fri 15th Apr 16
19:45 Gloucester Rugby  v   Exeter Chiefs Kingsholm BT Sport


Sat 16th Apr 16

15:00 Worcester Warriors  v   Wasps Sixways
15:15 Saracens  v   Harlequins Wembley Stadium BT Sport
17:30 Northampton Saints  v  Leicester Tigers Franklin's Gardens BT Sport


Sun 17th Apr 16
14:30 Sale Sharks  v   Bath Rugby AJ Bell Stadium
15:00 Newcastle Falcons  v   London Irish   Kingston Park BT Sport





Previews

The weekend starts with Exeter, fresh from the agonising defeat in Europe travelling to Kingsholm with their hosts in a horrendous run of form. With a misfiring lineout, a scrum that is creaking and most of the star backs injured, Gloucester look certain to extend their losing streak and heap the pressure onto DoR Humphreys as he fights to keep his job. I was going to say something fatuous like "sport always has the capacity for an upset" but you know what, with Exeter needing the win to keep ahead of Wasps, I fully expect us to see a plethora of maul drives and more tries for Waldrom. Exeter with a TBP

Speaking of Wasps, they travel to Sixfields to face a team with nothing to play for. When fired up Worcester can be highly combative and possess real threat in their largely antipodean backline. However when not fully focused they can be torn apart. I expect to see the latter and a big win for Wasps.

Sarries and Quins meet at Wembley knowing that despite winning at the weekend, both were guilty of extremely sloppy play and were a long way from their best. Quins have tended to struggle a little with Sarries style, and with McCall and Sanderson probably having fired several grenades up the Sarries players arses in training there is no reason to expect a break from the trend. Quins need the win to stay in play-off contention, but lack a controlling presence at 10 to combat the feociousness we can expect from Sarries. Win for the champions, but maybe not a TBP.

For once the Est Midlands derby is not the biggest game of the weekend, however as usual still huge amounts riding on this match. Saints simply have to win else there season is as good as over. Tigers know they can afford to lose and still have the play-offs in their own hands (unless Saints get the TBP and Tigers nothing) but will be desperate to do the double over their now second closest rivals. Saints will know that they let themselves down at the weekend, when a strangely lacklustre Sarries were ripe for picking, but their fate may rest in just how many players they can bring back in, and whether Jim Mallinder has the balls to trust his son. Scrums will be interesting as at times both sides struggled at the weekend.

With Sale losing to Montpelier at the weekend, their trip to Bath has been re-arranged a second time and will now be held on 23rd April rater than this Wednesday. Perhaps makes this particular fixture slightly less interesting, but better that there is not a 3 day turnaround. Sale can still make the top 4, but need to win both matches against Bath to stay in the running, while bath need to win both just to putthe pressure on for Top 6. On current form Sale should win this one.

And to the big one. The crunch relegation game with Irish travelling to the North East. Both teams have been seriously misfiring and I doubt anyone would be willing to stake money on how this game will go.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Cumbrian on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:48 pm

Get hold of the ball Falcons! Bloody hell!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:48 pm

This is such a low quality game, I don't think either of us deserve to stay up.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm

This has to be the worst game I've seen this season, absolutely dreadful.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Cumbrian on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:58 pm

Jesus wept, how did we win that? Irish blew at least three tries as far as I could see.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Scottrf on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:59 pm

Commiserations Irish. But if you can spend that long in the opposition 22 without a score then you're going to struggle.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by kingelderfield on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:00 pm

Irish will cope better with a season out. Refreshed they'll return stronger.

Relegation, don't you love it!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:01 pm

We were truly awful, how did we win this???

I've got to say, Irish have zero clue of what to do in the opposition 22, they really should have put us away. First time I've seen a team with worse handling that ours.

Unlucky Irish, but you're not a good side and the break in the Championship will do you good. I'm not sure where we go from here apart from another season battling relegation.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:05 pm

That was difficult to watch. Every time it looked like a good game might break out a spree of errors would occur and drag the pace of the game down.

If LI can keep hold of their young talent and Geraghty at ten then they should be able to play out of the Championship. Some of their squad needs to be trimmed as it is mediocre but relegation may well help that.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:10 pm

By that was bad. Two rubbish sides. Delayney is gash!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Heaf on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:14 pm

Well our U18 academy and amateur teams both topped their respective leagues so I guess there's some hope ... I guess if we can avoid getting stripped of all our decent players we might at least see a winning team next year instead of having to bear what we've had this year ....

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:39 pm

Out with my girls atm. I guess no-one is recommending that I watch my recording?

Moving up the table, Sale can reallybapply pressure to us if they can repeat todayscwin at rhe wreck next weekend.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by broadlandboy on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:56 pm

Sale could be 4th by the time Tigers play again.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by yappysnap on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 6:17 pm

Blimey that was poor. Could both teams be relegated? I wouldn't mind watching Pirates and London Scottish next season...

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 6:34 pm

Too many of our players are not premiership class. And especially in key positions.

Young and delayney at 9 and 10 are so poor.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by HongKongCherry on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 8:00 pm

Many moons ago I thought Young was a good player, but he truly is awful now. He took the pace out of nearly every phase and his pass is sloop slow!

Irish look a team completely bereft of any confidence. Perhaps a spell in the Championship will help build this once again. Nevertheless I can see whole swathes of players jumping ship.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Welly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 8:04 pm

broadlandboy wrote:Sale could be 4th by the time Tigers play again.

No they can't

Well not without having a game in hand

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 8:09 pm

Welly wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:Sale could be 4th by the time Tigers play again.

No they can't

Well not without having a game in hand

Yes they can. They have a game in hand at the Rec next week, then play on Friday night the week after. two TBP wins and they move 2 points ahead having played a game more.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Welly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:05 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Welly wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:Sale could be 4th by the time Tigers play again.

No they can't

Well not without having a game in hand

Yes they can. They have a game in hand at the Rec next week, then play on Friday night the week after. two TBP wins and they move 2 points ahead having played a game more.

So that is what I said.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:11 pm

Except you said no they can't.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Welly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Except you said no they can't.

Without having a game in hand.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Scottrf on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:15 pm

Welly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Except you said no they can't.

Without having a game in hand.
They wouldn't have a game in hand.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Welly on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:17 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Welly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Except you said no they can't.

Without having a game in hand.
They wouldn't have a game in hand.

Yes they would.

Sale catch up with Tigers in games next weekend V Bath

Even if they get 5 points it would be
Tigers 59
Sale 56

Sale play Glous Friday if they get 4 points it will be
Sale 60 played 21
Tigers 59 played 20

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by broadlandboy on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:43 am

Still means Sale can go above Tigers before they play next

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by beshocked on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 8:51 am

yappysnap wrote:Well done Sarries. Even when strangely poor you were far too good for us.

Quins just baffling really, really baffling. Totally wrong gameplan and then executed it terribly.

Thought the refs performance was good though, no issues with it.

Lastly well done Wade! 6 tries in a game is a hell of an achievement.

Thanks Yappysnap,

Gameplan can only work if tactical kicking is spot on, your kicking was very poor, also you struggled to win a lineout - compound those two problems and it's why you were largely pinned in your own half.

Goode and Billy enjoyed the poor kicks. Care seemed to struggle.

Ridiculous that Goode made almost 200 metres. He was excellent, in the battle of the FBs he certainly came out on top.

Bit worried about the Sarries breakdown though, struggled in the last couple of games, need to sharpen things up when facing Wasps.

Robshaws,Clifford and Easter all had good workrates.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 8:53 am

broadlandboy wrote:Still means Sale can go above Tigers before they play next

Which I think was your original (correct) point Very Happy

It actually looks like Welly is arguing with himself ie

No they can, well yes they can but only because, no they can't, yes they can Run

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 8:55 am

beshocked wrote:

Gameplan can only work if tactical kicking is spot on, your kicking was very poor,

beshocked wrote:Ridiculous that Goode made almost 200 metres.

I suspect the first directly led to the latter?



that goode made 164m beating just 6 defenders suggests there were certainly some easy yards due to poor kicking. Meanwhile Brown made "only" 78m yet beat 12 defenders. Hard really to compare the two when both had very little tackling to do and one side kicked so poorly.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Welly on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:01 am

LondonTiger wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:Still means Sale can go above Tigers before they play next

Which I think was your original (correct) point Very Happy

It actually looks like Welly is arguing with himself ie

No they can, well yes they can but only because, no they can't, yes they can Run

How am I arguing with myself dammit.

And in either case I would win in the end of that argument, as usual.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by beshocked on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:15 am

LondonTiger wrote:
beshocked wrote:

Gameplan can only work if tactical kicking is spot on, your kicking was very poor,

beshocked wrote:Ridiculous that Goode made almost 200 metres.

I suspect the first directly led to the latter?



that goode made 164m beating just 6 defenders suggests there were certainly some easy yards due to poor kicking. Meanwhile Brown made "only" 78m yet beat 12 defenders. Hard really to compare the two when both had very little tackling to do and one side kicked so poorly.

Disagree, Goode was much more heavily involved, sure that was down to Quins kicking poorly but that's the game. Goode's tactical kicking was better. Also because Goode is a playmaker he gets himself involved more- his bullet pass to Ashton put Ashton over in the corner, he does more than just the typical full back role. Goode stopped Brown when Brown made his nice break, stopped Chisholm when he got through.

Also he sidestepped chisholm almost on his own line and cleared the line well in another incident.

It's a full back's job to be the last line of defence and Sarries didn't concede one try, Quins conceded 3.



Brains vs Brawn.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:24 am

Official stats show Goode making just one tackle.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Welly on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:25 am

Lies lies lies damn it

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by sad_gimp on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:26 am

I think Goode is very good playing against average club sides and his footwork can exploit poor defensive shape well. Against international sides those gaps don't exist, you need to make them and that's where Brown's physicality and ability to get past the first (and usually second man), and stay on his feet long enough for support to arrive is more valuable.

Don't get me wrong I thin Goode is a fantastic club player, he just doesn't inspire confidence at international level, he lacks the physicality for it.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:27 am

Admittedly they show Brown making zero.

Both missed one according to the stats. It is a complete misnomer to view FBs as last line of defence nowadays, they make so few tackles in a game. I doubt any position on the pitch makes less tackles in a game.

I am not saying Brown was better than Goode, especially as I did not see the game. Just pointing out that you yourself state Quins kicked poorly, then describe Goode's metres as a reason he was the better player.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:27 am

Welly wrote: Lies lies lies damn it

Stop looking in that mirror and be lesh harsh on yourself Very Happy

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by beshocked on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:39 am

Londontiger well I did watch the game. It wasn't just the metres, it was his playmaking, his tactical kicking, stopping Quins.

He might have only had to make one tackle but didn't stop him doing his job.

Brown should make more tackles if the opposition is winning the territory and possession battle.

Perhaps it's just the way I view the game, when someone involves themselves more I am more inclined to think they played well.

Quins let Goode have too much of a say on the game.

mid gen I guess it depends if you think that Goode's playmaking ability can be utilised more at international level.

I agree, Goode hasn't been particularly good so far but things can change.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by sad_gimp on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 10:25 am

FWIW I do think someone else should be given a shot at the 15 shirt, it won't hurt Brown to have a break and if anyone's going to respond well to a bit of competition, it's him.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Scottrf on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 10:31 am

Welly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Welly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Except you said no they can't.

Without having a game in hand.
They wouldn't have a game in hand.

Yes they would.

Sale catch up with Tigers in games next weekend V Bath

Even if they get 5 points it would be
Tigers 59
Sale 56

Sale play Glous Friday if they get 4 points it will be
Sale 60 played 21
Tigers 59 played 20
Having a game in hand means you have played 1 game fewer, not more.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:20 am

Assuming Irish are relegated you will have London Scottish, London Welsh and London Irish all in the same league (championship).

And with Richmond promoted and Ealing in the championship - they can walk to each others ground (Well except for Irish)


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:21 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Assuming Irish are relegated you will have London Scottish, London Welsh and London Irish all in the same league.


Pro12? Run

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:22 am

Yeah you'd think so LT.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by yappysnap on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:48 pm

It's worth noting that with an abundance of easy ball and no chasers to pressure him Goode still never troubles our try line or beat many defenders.

Brown though just seems to be getting his decision making wrong too often.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:41 pm

Teams of the week

Times:
Ayerza, Thacker, Du Plessis, Barrow, Kruis, Wood, Kvesic, Vunipola, Youngs, Burns, Wade, Daly, Piutau, Ashton, Mallinder

Telegraph:
Vickers, Thacker, Cobilas, Barrow, Kruis, Wilson, Harrison, Morgan, Hougarrd, Burns, Ashton, Tuitoupo, Daly, Wade, Goode


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:47 pm

Harrison was plauing at 8 wasn't he?

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Scottrf on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:48 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Harrison was plauing at 8 wasn't he?
Yep.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:50 pm

Scottrf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Harrison was plauing at 8 wasn't he?
Yep.

Aye, and Daly was at 12 but Telegraph selected him at 13. It is interesting just how few of the selections were in both.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by lostinwales on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:01 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Harrison was plauing at 8 wasn't he?
Yep.

Aye, and Daly was at 12 but Telegraph selected him at 13. It is interesting just how few of the selections were in both.

7 - but all EQ which is nice

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:06 pm

I kind of excluded Daly as he was in different positions so came to 6 Very Happy

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:21 pm

I cant believe there were no falcons or irish players in there after that breathtaking game yesterday??? Headscratch

EDIT: There actually is....that's even more amazing Shocked

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:26 pm

Actually I heard a funny one about Vickers.

Did you know he's the most feared LH in the league...because hes a hooker, and No self respecting TH would want to get beat in a scrum off a converted hooker! Very Happy

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 5:42 pm

Got round to watching the game this morning. If we can’t convert 70% possession in the second half against the team who are second from bottom into any points then we are where we deserve to be. Gutting to be honest to watch us squander at least a couple of very good opportunities to score tries. The break just after half time where Tikoroituma throws a pass inside which Fenby drops sums up where were are as a team, just utterly bereft of any confidence. In any sort of form or confidence Tiks just pins his ears back and runs over Delaney in the corner. Sadly I think our fate was sealed when we bagged 0 points from the first 6 games. We’ve always been playing catch up and as a result pressure has built and confidence has dropped.

Well done to Falcons, you lads toughed it out and defended well to not give away any kickable penalties.

I’m still vainly holding onto the slimmest of slim hopes that we beat Quins and Wasps rest everyone on the last day as they have the play offs and Champions Cup final to prepare for, and we somehow sneak past Falcons. Failing that, I’m quite looking forward to away visits to the RAG and Old Deer Park next season, and to hopefully seeing us win a few more games than we have done over the past 3 years.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

Post by yappysnap on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:07 pm

Couple of things.

1. It just shows how poor Falcons are that Irish can go 6 games without a single point and still almost overtake them at the end. Dean Richards needs some revolution for next season.

2. How poor was Mako on the weekend? Absolutely embarrassed by Quins second choice prop and a lightweight hooker, lucky not to get carded and anonymous around the park. You've got to think he's one the players Eddie fired that warning at. There are a few young props almost overtaking him now.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 20

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