2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

The Crucible opens its doors to snookers greatest players on the planet for 17 days but who will end it holding the world crown?

The tournament (as is tradition) starts with the champion opening proceedings and Bingham is having early problems trailing Ali Carter 3-1. On the other table Marco Fu is in command against former champion Peter Ebdon leading 5-1.

Discuss.....
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:07 pm

That isn't even an argument, the early 90's was horrendously poor; it had Hendry, a couldn't care Davis and serial bottler White, that was it yet you concentrate on today when it is far far stronger. You seem to mistake people not enjoying watching Selby and Dott as people saying they're bad players when they're not, Bingham and Hawkins from what i've seen have very few negatives attached to them.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:08 pm

Selby off to an ideal start and goes into a 2-0 lead against Ding.
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:15 pm

Selby at his finest. Thats a reality check for Ding, has to put the frame totally away

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:17 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That isn't even an argument, the early 90's was horrendously poor; it had Hendry, a couldn't care Davis and serial bottler White, that was it yet you concentrate on today when it is far far stronger. You seem to mistake people not enjoying watching Selby and Dott as people saying they're bad players when they're not, Bingham and Hawkins from what i've seen have very few negatives attached to them.

Sorry but that is a blatant distortion of facts.

Ronnie O'Sullivan played in 8 world championships in the 90s making three semis and won no world title losing agains Ebdon, Higgins and Hendry.

John Higgins played in 6 world championships in the 90s winning one world title.

Mark Williams played in 4 world championships in the 90s winning one world title.

And the likes of Ebdon who'd go on to win a title in the 00s played in 9 world championships in the 90s. Future world champs like Dott also played in the 90s and some couldn't even qualify for The Crucible in the 90s such as Bingham.

In short Ronnie and Ebdon were around in the early 90s as well as Doherty and others and as for White being a serial bottler - if you ask fans and ex-players they will label him as the best player to never win a world title more often than not.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:25 pm

That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:25 pm

Just give Selby the trophy now......

Seen more spunk in a convent full of Nuns..

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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:29 pm

People may not be happy that he didnt beat Ronnie and Trump to be here, but hes the toughest and best safety player around, and hes deserving of his place here.

Experience is really telling at the moment, Ding eing pipped in each frame

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:30 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:31 pm

As long as Ding isnt 6-2 or worse, then hes in the final proper and it will be a close one.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:31 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.

You don't understand how players get better over time do you?

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:32 pm

temporary21 wrote:People may not be happy that he didnt beat Ronnie and Trump to be here, but hes the toughest and best safety player around, and hes deserving of his place here.

Experience is really telling at the moment, Ding eing pipped in each frame

And he's World No.1. And set to go 3-0 up.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:33 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.

You don't understand how players get better over time do you?

And don't you understand what it takes to win the UK title and Masters? It takes damned good form so Ronnie was obviously in good nick around then.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:36 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.

You don't understand how players get better over time do you?

And don't you understand what it takes to win the UK title and Masters? It takes damned good form so Ronnie was obviously in good nick around then.

Completely different tournaments and you know it much like how Ding had been good enough to win them both but wasn't good enough until this year to make the final of the world championship.

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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:38 pm

Ding needs this last frame, else hes got a very tough second half

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:41 pm

You're an optimist and a Selby fan trying not to get carried away...Relax and enjoy....He's choking and be honest you thought he might...I did..

Done it before hasn't he..


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:44 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.

You don't understand how players get better over time do you?

And don't you understand what it takes to win the UK title and Masters? It takes damned good form so Ronnie was obviously in good nick around then.

Completely different tournaments and you know it much like how Ding had been good enough to win them both but wasn't good enough until this year to make the final of the world championship.

Not at all. If you are a snooker fan you realize the UK Championship is always used as a form finder for the World Championships. Ronnie won the UK - now if he is THE man then how the hell could he not muster one just ONE world title when there was so much perceived (not by me) dross players around?
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:46 pm

Whats that got to do with anything? Id actually quite like Ding to be the man to break the seal on the first Chinese champion. It would feel right.
You make like appreciating Selby is a dirty thing...

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:47 pm

They are in no way comparable Craig, one has a final which is a best of 19 the other has a first round which is a best of 19, there are countless players who have been good enough to win the UK but fall well short in the worlds. You've come up with an opinion and are now twisting everything to suit that opinion.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:48 pm

You keep singing Selby's virtues....Thought you were a fan..

No need to be so sensitive..

I wanted Trump to win....Want to see a good final but I don't trust sportsman that lack heart...

Why I wanted Alan to win..

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:51 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:They are in no way comparable Craig, one has a final which is a best of 19 the other has a first round which is a best of 19, there are countless players who have been good enough to win the UK but fall well short in the worlds. You've come up with an opinion and are now twisting everything to suit that opinion.

It is common knowledge in the sport that it was a form finder. And how do you explain Ronnie getting to three Crucible semis in this 'weak' 90s and losing? He was evidently in some nick to reach the semis and so why no title against supposedly inferior players?
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:52 pm

I appreciate more than just a few players. Dont see why thats worthy of any note...

Dings not done yet, no need to crucify him, its just the first session.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:55 pm

We'll see mate....But he's not the sort of player you'd back from a losing position..

But he is a top player...Belief and does he have it..

We'll see..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:57 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:They are in no way comparable Craig, one has a final which is a best of 19 the other has a first round which is a best of 19, there are countless players who have been good enough to win the UK but fall well short in the worlds. You've come up with an opinion and are now twisting everything to suit that opinion.

It is common knowledge in the sport that it was a form finder. And how do you explain Ronnie getting to three Crucible semis in this 'weak' 90s and losing? He was evidently in some nick to reach the semis and so why no title against supposedly inferior players?

What I quite clearly said which you seem to ignore over and over again because it doesn't suit your feeble argument was that the early 90's were poor which they were, it lacked any real talent outside of the top 3.

It being a form finder means very little as the World's is a very different beast, the mental side of things is tested far more hence why so many players can achieve success in the UK and Masters but not the World's.

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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:57 pm

well Ding needs the next session 3-1, the occasion has indeed weighted him down

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:57 pm

Selby smashes in a century and goes into a 4-0 lead against Ding at the mid-session interval.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 3:59 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:They are in no way comparable Craig, one has a final which is a best of 19 the other has a first round which is a best of 19, there are countless players who have been good enough to win the UK but fall well short in the worlds. You've come up with an opinion and are now twisting everything to suit that opinion.

It is common knowledge in the sport that it was a form finder. And how do you explain Ronnie getting to three Crucible semis in this 'weak' 90s and losing? He was evidently in some nick to reach the semis and so why no title against supposedly inferior players?

What I quite clearly said which you seem to ignore over and over again because it doesn't suit your feeble argument was that the early 90's were poor which they were, it lacked any real talent outside of the top 3.

It being a form finder means very little as the World's is a very different beast, the mental side of things is tested far more hence why so many players can achieve success in the UK and Masters but not the World's.

And you fail to answer why Ronnie couldn't beat all this dross floating around and Hendry actually ruled until well passed the mid 90s. I await the reason why Ronnie was good enough to win many titles, reach Crucible semis but yet not win one even ONE world title in the 90s.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:03 pm

Hendry ruled until 1996 in fact Craig, the moment Higgins, Doherty and Williams found their A games he stopped winning so much, I think you're too stupid to comprehend what is being said hence why your arguing irrelevancies.

The late 90's when O'Sullivan started to fulfill his early promise was a far stronger time than the early 90's, I know you'll try to argue that those players were around earlier but if they're not at their best it really doesn't matter.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:10 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Hendry ruled until 1996 in fact Craig, the moment Higgins, Doherty and Williams found their A games he stopped winning so much, I think you're too stupid to comprehend what is being said hence why your arguing irrelevancies.

The late 90's when O'Sullivan started to fulfill his early promise was a far stronger time than the early 90's, I know you'll try to argue that those players were around earlier but if they're not at their best it really doesn't matter.

Hmm so winning a UK title, British Open and a Masters yet still not fulfilling potential. Eh no I don't think so. Two of those (UK and Masters) are most sought after by players outside of the Crucible and Ronnie had won them all in the first half of the 90s yet was not able to win one world title - that is not what I expect from a GOAT playing against supposed dross. Either competition around then wasn't as dross as you are painting it or you are claiming Ronnie wasn't playing his best and if that is what you feel then when do you say Ronnie is/was at his peak?
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:16 pm

I'm out, I cannot lower myself any more to your level stupidity.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:19 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm out, I cannot lower myself any more to your level stupidity.

Yes normally the way when you don't have the answers. I'll await you getting back to me when you have worked out how such a dross time for snooker and yet Ronnie had EIGHT cracks at the world title and couldn't win one.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:21 pm

Learn to read you flipping imbecile, the early 90's were dross, that is what I said.

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Post by Guest on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:22 pm

Tough start for Ding. This will test his mettle. I think he more or less led from the start at the semi-final and quarter final stage.

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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:24 pm

Calm the f down. Getting hysterical isn't gonna do anything

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:30 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Learn to read you flipping imbecile, the early 90's were dross, that is what I said.

Ronnie played in the early 90s right up until the end of the 90s so even at a time you call 'dross' he couldn't win the world title. He lost in world championship matches against players you put in the dross category. Why?
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:31 pm

Selby now 5-0. This is getting serious now for Ding. He has to win a couple of frames in this session at least.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:34 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Learn to read you flipping imbecile, the early 90's were dross, that is what I said.

Ronnie played in the early 90s right up until the end of the 90s so even at a time you call 'dross' he couldn't win the world title. He lost in world championship matches against players you put in the dross category. Why?

How many times do I have to say he was not at his best nor did he have the mental strength until you actually understand and stop repeating the same question.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:35 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Learn to read you flipping imbecile, the early 90's were dross, that is what I said.

Ronnie played in the early 90s right up until the end of the 90s so even at a time you call 'dross' he couldn't win the world title. He lost in world championship matches against players you put in the dross category. Why?

How many times do I have to say he was not at his best nor did he have the mental strength until you actually understand and stop repeating the same question.

Right so when do you say he was at his best?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:39 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Selby now 5-0. This is getting serious now for Ding. He has to win a couple of frames in this session at least.

He's already booked himself on tomorrow's 5pm flight to Beijing..

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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:40 pm

Well this is getting a bit grim now, if ding can get this one out of the way, there's some light at the end of the tunnel though...

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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:56 pm

Oh dear... That's the third pinched frame by the looks of it

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:57 pm

temporary21 wrote:Well this is getting a bit grim now, if ding can get this one out of the way, there's some light at the end of the tunnel though...

It is getting more than grim for Ding now at 6-0. Desperate is how I'd describe it now for the Chinese player.
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:01 pm

All the safety has been perfect from mark ball on a string right now. It's just about the worst player ding could play with some nerves

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:02 pm

Any minute now Ding's mum will bring a cup of coffee in and tell him he's got to get up..

"Mum I had a terrible dream"..

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:04 pm

temporary21 wrote:All the safety has been perfect from mark ball on a string right now. It's just about the worst player ding could play with some nerves

That is Selby's game though - top notch match play snooker. Keep it tight when out of position and wait for the chances that will come your way. It has served him well throughout his career.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:15 pm

Looks like Ding is set to get his first frame on the board and boy does he need it.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:20 pm

And Ding gets a frame. Selby leads 6-1.
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:23 pm

Oh thank god! Nearly choked up when he won it

Just get to 6-2 Ding and he's got fingertips left on this match

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:26 pm

temporary21 wrote:Oh thank god! Nearly choked up when he won it

Just get to 6-2 Ding and he's got fingertips left on this match

If he gets to 6-2 he is still in there with a shout as it is such a long match. 7-1 and I'd have my doubts.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:42 pm

It looks pretty certain that Ding has this frame in the bag. Selby goes into this evening session leading 6-2. Ding will be looking for far better from this evening session.
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Post by temporary21 on Sun 01 May 2016, 5:46 pm

Phew. A nightmare session that just turned into a bad one instead. Ding has his foot in the door now and looks more settled. He'll be looking for a 5-3 evening session, and he'll be back in it

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