2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

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2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

The Crucible opens its doors to snookers greatest players on the planet for 17 days but who will end it holding the world crown?

The tournament (as is tradition) starts with the champion opening proceedings and Bingham is having early problems trailing Ali Carter 3-1. On the other table Marco Fu is in command against former champion Peter Ebdon leading 5-1.

Discuss.....

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by B.A. BARACUS on Mon May 02, 2016 11:14 pm

Well thank god that is over.

If the CIA want to get terrorists to confess, they should abandon water boarding and get them to watch Mark Selby....unworthy champion.

Any player that wins a world by not playing anyone in the top ten can consider himself very fortunate.


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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Mon May 02, 2016 11:15 pm

temporary21 wrote:What a night this will be for Selby given whats just happened in the football if he finishes up this break.

Nice to see some sports still reward some toughness and not just biffing. This would be well deserved

When Ding was winning frames to go from 16 - 11 to 16 - 14 spurs where in control and were going ahead 2-0. When Selby was winning the last two frames Chelsea were turning it around and going level at 2-2.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by temporary21 on Mon May 02, 2016 11:17 pm

Channeling his inner Ranieri perhaps.

A kind draw, helped by Ronnie not showing the needed application against Hawkins. Hes champion though, which wont be forgotten, whilst all the criticism will be

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon May 02, 2016 11:22 pm

In fairness to Selby I can still remember Graham Dott winning the title so the criticism is a bit overblown. He's a deserving champion but not a player that I like to watch nor one that will bring younger viewers in.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by B.A. BARACUS on Mon May 02, 2016 11:23 pm

temporary21 wrote:Channeling his inner Ranieri perhaps.

A kind draw, helped by Ronnie not showing the needed application against Hawkins. Hes champion though, which wont be forgotten, whilst all the criticism will be

I think Ronnie showed plenty of 'application' against Hawkins.

Hawkins on that kind of form would have given Selby and any other player fits.

Let's not forget that Ronnie won 3 frames in a row to take it to the decider, it's not like he had a mental collapse and just handed it to Barry.

How i would have loved to see Ronnie in the final against Selby though, such a contrast in styles.

This final will certainly not be remembered as a classic....ranks up there with Dott winning in 2006 against Ebdon as the poorest final in recent years

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by temporary21 on Mon May 02, 2016 11:29 pm

We saw that 2 years ago... Ronnie coudlnt keep up his application in the tactical frames and Selby ran away with it after weathering the storm.

It was the same against Hawkins, he just couldnt buy a close frame and it cost him. That in turn cost him the right to be inserted into the picture come the semis

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by B.A. BARACUS on Mon May 02, 2016 11:38 pm

I know we saw it two years ago but it would have been interesting to see whether Ronnie had learnt anything from that defeat.

Selby has now matched Mark Williams on two world crowns and i can't help but feel that Williams record is poor considering his ability.

He really should have at least one more world title to his name.

From 2000-03 he was the perhaps the dominant force in the game and then he just seemed to go missing.

I always got the impression his hunger disappeared after that period and winning had become almost habitual for him and he took it for granted.

Such a shame because in his prime he was a fearsome player and he has not looked the same ever since.


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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Alistair on Tue May 03, 2016 11:54 am

Have to say i switched off the tournament after Ronnie went out. I did find his comments about being the 'figurehead of the sport' somewhat misplaced in terms of saying it after he lost, but you have to see their is some merit in what he says. His presence and participation makes Snooker worth watching.

Selby sucks the life out of the game. He's Peter Ebdon Jnr. Ding is always going to generate interest due to his nationality. Other than that, who can really draw people in like Ronnie?

The romance of McManus making the Semi-Final's and the possibility of an all Asian final was the only thing that peaked this years interest.

Selby won the title, so he deserves the plaudits, but the manner in which he did it really isn't what people want to see.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Tue May 03, 2016 1:48 pm

O'Sullivan explained his loss to Hawkins as not being "match fit" which resulted in him losing the closely fought tactical frames.  He said he just hadn't played enough snooker compared to the others. He may have said that there are now so many tournaments throughout the year that the overall level of play has gone up - players were just generally match sharp.  There was no denying the quality of Selby's play as well as others in getting the ball safe, creating snookers, in escaping snookers.  It is a different kind of game "match play" but the sport / pastime was named after it ("snooker").

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Alistair on Tue May 03, 2016 2:14 pm

That's O'Sullivan's choice though, the matches were there. After winning the Welsh Open he could've played more and didn't.

Whilst i couldn't stand Ebdon as a player, his approach to practice was spot on. Always practiced with in matchplay conditions.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by VTR on Tue May 03, 2016 3:32 pm

Alistair wrote:Have to say i switched off the tournament after Ronnie went out. I did find his comments about being the 'figurehead of the sport' somewhat misplaced in terms of saying it after he lost, but you have to see their is some merit in what he says. His presence and participation makes Snooker worth watching.
.

That's a shame as you missed a cracking semi-final between Ding and McManus in that case. I will concede the final was less than thrilling at times but did have some good moments.

You do remind me a bit though of the Federer fan-boys on the Tennis section who say they will stop watching Tennis when he retires!

If you are only interested in Ronnie, given he can't win every year, then you will be disappointed more often than not

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue May 03, 2016 4:01 pm

Snooker is no different from any other sport. You get out of it what you put in. So by Ronnie's own admittance he hasn't put enough in so he gets what he deserves. But to me it sounds far too much sour grapes and excuses. Did he not reel off three frames on the bounce to comes from 12-9 down to draw level at 12-12 V Hawkins? No rust in those three frames was there? He has been in this sport long enough to know what lack of preparation (if that is what he is claiming cost him) will get him. He isn't a rookie - he has been in the sport now as a pro for 25 years. This is the reason I cannot accept him as GOAT as he has these flaws in his make-up.

Congratulations to Mark Selby on winning his second world title. The World No.1 has the dedication to practice, practice, practice and compete, compete, compete and maximises to the full the talent he has. He can tailor various styles to various matches. Top quality matchplay snooker to win when not scoring big is a great fall-back when not scoring big. I understand this grates with posters here because it does not satisfy what they want to see - fair enough. Equally though, you just need to listen to the high esteem Selby is held in by others AND ex and current pros which means you cannot underplay his standing in the game and his achievements.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Alistair on Tue May 03, 2016 4:11 pm

I can't say i've heard many pro's sing the praises of Mark Selby.

I think there is alot of debate to be had as to whether Ronnie is the GOAT, but he is easily the most naturally gifted and most talented player to ever play the sport.

Selby clearly has a gift for the longer format, when you take out his 2 world title wins, he has only won 5 ranking events in 17 years!

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue May 03, 2016 4:19 pm

Alistair wrote:

I think there is alot of debate to be had as to whether Ronnie is the GOAT, but he is easily the most naturally gifted and most talented player to ever play the sport.


I have said it many times on here he is the most naturally gifted player to pick up a cue. However, that does not guarantee you being called GOAT. Just look at Jimmy White - he is one of the most naturally gifted players to play the game but has no world titles and so cannot be regarded in any GOAT debate. Tony Drago was another who had great natural talent as did James Wattana and Judd Trump but they don't enter the equation. My point is naturally gifted is not enough to enter into GOATdom as snooker is a game that tests many traits other than just talent.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Born Slippy on Tue May 03, 2016 6:33 pm

Alistair wrote:I can't say i've heard many pro's sing the praises of Mark Selby.

I think there is alot of debate to be had as to whether Ronnie is the GOAT, but he is easily the most naturally gifted and most talented player to ever play the sport.

Selby clearly has a gift for the longer format, when you take out his 2 world title wins, he has only won 5 ranking events in 17 years!

That's a bit misleading though, as it doesn't include the Masters - part of the Triple Crown. Basing it on the three main events, he has won 6 (3 Masters; 2 Worlds and 1 UK) since 2008. Only Ronnie, with 7, has won more in that time. Between them, they've won half the really big events in that 9 year period.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue May 03, 2016 6:52 pm

Born Slippy wrote:
Alistair wrote:I can't say i've heard many pro's sing the praises of Mark Selby.

I think there is alot of debate to be had as to whether Ronnie is the GOAT, but he is easily the most naturally gifted and most talented player to ever play the sport.

Selby clearly has a gift for the longer format, when you take out his 2 world title wins, he has only won 5 ranking events in 17 years!

That's a bit misleading though, as it doesn't include the Masters - part of the Triple Crown. Basing it on the three main events, he has won 6 (3 Masters; 2 Worlds and 1 UK) since 2008. Only Ronnie, with 7, has won more in that time. Between them, they've won half the really big events in that 9 year period.

And if Ronnie is GOAT wannabe how come his stats are roughly on a par with a player derided so much over the same period?

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Tue May 03, 2016 7:38 pm

I think professional snookers players generally agree that Alex Higgins was the most "talented" snooker player.  His genius was developed before snooker hit national and then international popularity (i.e. before the Barry Hearn era).  He was emotional, temperamental and had a devil may care attitude.

Alex Higgins "hated" Steve Davies and lauded a up and coming young Stephen Hendry, predicting Stephen Hendry would destroy Steve Davies at his own game (as in style of play).

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue May 03, 2016 7:51 pm

Nore Staat wrote:I think professional snookers players generally agree that Alex Higgins was the most "talented" snooker player.  His genius was developed before snooker hit national and then international popularity (i.e. before the Barry Hearn era).  He was emotional, temperamental and had a devil may care attitude.

Alex Higgins "hated" Steve Davies and lauded a up and coming young Stephen Hendry, predicting Stephen Hendry would destroy Steve Davies at his own game (as in style of play).

Yes Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins was another of those naturally gifted sorts. Again though was one with his flaws. Fabulous talent but...... seems like those words will always go together.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue May 03, 2016 9:52 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Born Slippy wrote:
Alistair wrote:I can't say i've heard many pro's sing the praises of Mark Selby.

I think there is alot of debate to be had as to whether Ronnie is the GOAT, but he is easily the most naturally gifted and most talented player to ever play the sport.

Selby clearly has a gift for the longer format, when you take out his 2 world title wins, he has only won 5 ranking events in 17 years!

That's a bit misleading though, as it doesn't include the Masters - part of the Triple Crown. Basing it on the three main events, he has won 6 (3 Masters; 2 Worlds and 1 UK) since 2008. Only Ronnie, with 7, has won more in that time. Between them, they've won half the really big events in that 9 year period.

And if Ronnie is GOAT wannabe how come his stats are roughly on a par with a player derided so much over the same period?

Selby is not derided, people just don't enjoy watching him play, you yet again mistake people finding him boring with your assumption that it means they don't think he's a good player.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by temporary21 on Tue May 03, 2016 10:12 pm

So surely then noone should hold his success against him? Yet its clear as day that people arent happy about that.
Maybe just congratulate him, and instead of putting on a big asterisk on it about his game being bad for the sport, just leave it at that and dont watch when he plays. Simples

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue May 03, 2016 10:22 pm

That's not an argument.

Did Selby deserve to win? Yes
Do I enjoy watching him play? No
Is he bad for the game? Yes

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by B.A. BARACUS on Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That's not an argument.

Did Selby deserve to win? Yes
Do I enjoy watching him play? No
Is he bad for the game? Yes

I would slightly edit that appraisal of Selby's performance...

Did Selby deserve to win? No.

Considering he never played a top 10 ranked player throughout the whole tournament, i don't feel he deserved to win.

He played poor and was fortunate enough to play a succession of patchy players, who were either qualifiers or lacking form.

His highest ranked opponent was Fu who was ranked 14 in the world and a player with a fundamentally flawed cue action, who has been on the fringes for years.

Rubbish tournament, capped off with a rubbish final won by a safety first player who stuttered his way to the title

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue May 03, 2016 11:17 pm

Not really a fair appraisal when Ding has a ranking not befitting of his talent, you can say he's a qualifier but he's probably one of the best qualifiers there's ever been. The only reason he didn't face a top ten player is because they all lost early on and he then beat the players who beat them.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed May 04, 2016 6:56 am

Well lets just remember that Selby recently took a month out of the game as well so had some rust coming in but still had the game to win. Also lets just remember he is the World No.1. Also remember he can beat whatever type of player is out in front of him whether a matchplay player or one of the best potters the sport has seen.

I am with temps here 100% - if you don't like his style don't watch. I am one who watches and appreciates the occasion - a world final seeing both players fight mental demons, the tactical side of the game and ability to click back in and fire centuries in. I am not one-dimensional enough to say if Ronnie or Judd isn't there then meh. Why should I? Likewise with fellow Scots who got knocked out. They had their chance to take glory as they lined up at The Crucible but like 31 other players just weren't up to it.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by Alistair on Wed May 04, 2016 4:37 pm

I don't buy the excuse that he didn't beat a Top 10 ranked player, you can't blame Selby for other people's poor performances.

As for his record, he and Ronnie may have shared most of the big ones, but Ronnie, Hendry et al in the GOAT bracket have won the 'little' tournaments.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed May 04, 2016 4:42 pm

Alistair wrote:I don't buy the excuse that he didn't beat a Top 10 ranked player, you can't blame Selby for other people's poor performances.


Exactly. Besides he has already won it before in 2014 when he beat Neil Robertson in the semis and Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final so he has already proven himself worthy.

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Re: 2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

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