Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

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Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by LordDowlais on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:22 am

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Well this was an interesting read, it looks as though there is not much difference between average crowd sizes between the two leagues, now I know the Pro12 has it's issues what with the reffing situations and the logistics of it all, but this does make for interesting reading, also how the feck are Saracens still in operation ?

[size=48]The evidence that shows the Aviva Premiership isn't much more of a crowd puller than the Pro12 after all[/size]

Just 8,050 turned up for the continent’s in-form team’s scintillating 29-20 European Champions Cup quarter-final victory over Northampton last weekend


        


Crowds have been disappointing at Allianz Park
How many times have critics of the Guinness Pro12 pointed to the Aviva Premiership as being the “best club tournament in the world” and a “shining light” for large crowds?
Yes, Dai Young’s Wasps are booming since their 80-mile move north from High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire to Coventry in the heart of the midlands.
But it’s Leicester Tigers who continue to lead the way over the border when it comes to attendances, regularly exceeding 20,000.
However, crowds have been affected at the another other of the historical major clubs, Gloucester, by disappointing results.
The biggest embarrassment of the lot, though, is English champions Saracens, when they stage home matches at Allianz Park.



Just 8,050 turned up for the continent’s in-form team’s scintillating 29-20 European Champions Cup quarter-final victory over Northampton last weekend.

If any of the Welsh pro entities – Cardiff Blues, Newport Gwent Dragons, Ospreys or Scarlets – were hosting Northampton in a last eight clash in the northern hemisphere gem, you’d expect them to better that figure.
“The players would love to have run out in front of a full house against Northampton, there’s no question of that,” said Saracens director of rugby Mark McCall.
“The players have done enough over the last five years to warrant full houses because it’s not as though there aren’t some good players to come and watch. They’re winning a lot of games.”
Saracens qualified for the knockout phase with a clean sweep of six victories in their group, guaranteeing they would face Northampton at their purpose-built venue in Hertfordshire.


“We worked so hard to be at home for the home quarter-finals because we’ve been away for the same stage for the last two years,” said former Ulster coach McCall.
“It was an unbelievable atmosphere in Ulster in 2014 when 18,000 people turned up. It was magic.
“The people who were there on Saturday did well because it was a good atmosphere, but the playing group deserved a bit more.”
The crowd at Allianz Park was not helped by the small number of Northampton supporters who made the 61-mile journey to Barnet.
An allocation of 3,500 was made available to Northampton but 2,850 of those were returned with just 650 bought – a surprise given the size of the fixture, the rivalry between the teams and their proximity.
Under tournament guidelines, the English champions needed to provide a capacity of 15,000 but it was waived by Champions Cup powerbrokers when it became apparent the extra seats would not be required.
It’s the same Saracens that attracted just 25,492 to Twickenham two years ago to see them crush Clermont Auvergne in the semi-finals.


The north London club has also seen its debt rise to £45.1m in the last financial year following a loss of £3.98m.
The annual accounts reveal they are the most indebted club in rugby history with long-standing benefactor Nigel Wray and a consortium of South African business associates having kept Saracens afloat through an unsecured loan.
Yet, a year ago, club chairman Wray called for the RFU to scrap Premier Rugby’s salary cap.
Ironically, on Saturday they will host Harlequins at Wembley Stadium in their equivalent of our own Judgement Day – ‘Men in Black’ are due to appear and singer Foxes will perform some of her biggest hits from her new album – with 77,000 tickets already distributed, generating revenue of over £1m,. Saracens chief McCall has questioned why a larger number of those fans fail to attend fixtures at Allianz Park.
Saracens attracted a crowd of 41,063 when they faced Ospreys at the home of English football in December 2011, with rappers Tinie Tempah and Tincy Stryder being a huge draw for a young crowd as they played live.



“We want some of the people at Wembley to come along on a week to week basis,” said McCall.
But Saracens aren’t the only club in the Aviva Premiership who must be concerned about their home gates.
League strugglers London Irish have seen their attendances dip to about 5,500, Sale Sharks had just 4,236 for their home clash with high-flying Exeter Chiefs in Salford while Newcastle Falcons are posting figures of just over 6,500 and Worcester Warriors between 8-9,000.





Sale had just 4,557 for last weekend’s European Challenge Cup quarter-final against star-studded Montpellier, who are second in the French Top 14, while Gloucester’s crowd of 10,501 against the Dragons was lower than any they have had for a Premiership match this campaign.
Harlequins would also have been disappointed by only 9,851 watching them against London Irish at Twickenham Stoop.
George North's Northampton have gone the other way. They extended their stadium from 13,300 to 15,250 over the summer and have had a 15 per cent increase in attendances at Franklin's Gardens.
Nonetheless, interestingly average gates in the last two rounds of the Aviva Premiership have been 10,793 and 14,023, compared to 8,487 and 13,765 in the Pro12.
The average in last weekend’s European ties was 17,030 in the Champions Cup and 9,746 in the Challenge Cup.
So, when you scratch below the surface, the gloss and the spin, maybe the Premiership isn’t quite everything it’s cracked up to be after all.

Average crowd last weekend



Aviva Premiership 

14,023



Guinness Pro12

13,765


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/evidence-shows-aviva-premiership-isnt-11186173

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:10 pm

All Irish? I'm sure there were saffers, kiwis and Aussies there.

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:38 pm

Oh dear.................................. oh dear, oh dear, oh dear..............

where's the "head in the hands* emoticon??? There should be one for such moments of tooth pulling grief.

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by PhilBB on Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:58 pm

wayne wrote:
Carpet, I would presume after the WRU take their cut out (and that won't be small) the 2 Home teams will share what is over, which will be considerably more than what they would have made if they actually played at their home grounds. IIRC the WRU take what is taken at the bars.

Considerably more? Interesting claim.

Say 55,000 tickets sold = £458,000. Take off costs - lets call that £58,000 for neatness. So £400,000 left to be split 2 ways: £200,000 each.

CAP at 12,500 sell out would generate 8,000 @ average £12 = c.£100,000 each.

Plus income from 40 hospitality boxes and two lunch venues, plus lost ground revenue through sponsorship.

I can see it working for the NGD but not for CAP.

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Sun May 08, 2016 2:10 am

Pot Hale wrote:Crowd attendances by Team - PRO 12 2015/16 (figures from PRO 12 website)

Home team on left hand column.  Read left to right.  (Attendances for Rounds 21 & 22 have been included.)
Away teams from top to bottom.  Any errors are unintentional.

Ho/Aw

Connacht

Leinster

Munster

Ulster

Cardiff

Dragons

Ospreys

Scarlets

Glasgow

Edinb'h

Treviso

Zebre

Tot. Home

Avg Home

Connacht

0

7300

7786

5876

3274

3624

5279

5292

7786

3834

3443

3994

57402

5218

Leinster

14297

0

43108

15552

13300

10400

10897

14743

11089

10233

10083

8612

162231

14748

Munster

15143

25600

0

13039

6124

13552

7791

12000

11713

8200

5425

13063

130450

11859

Ulster

16224

17332

17211

0

15886

13768

13544

15201

16477

15839

14398

15726

171274

15570

Ireland



45,664



50,232



68,105



34,467



38,584



41,344



37,511



47,236



47,065



38,106



33,349



41,395



523,058



47,551



Cardiff

5824

5321

5017

5279

0

8203

34,131

11720

5704

6058

5258

3658

96,173

8,743

Dragons

4128

4303

5579

4483

8226

0

6413

34,131

4526

6352

4940

4159

87,240

7931

Ospreys

7893

7340

8107

9,923

9920

9247

0

12051

7239

7264

8445

7236

94,465

8588

Scarlets

5888

7013

6466

6061

9546

6952

14568

0

8165

5569

5236

5504

80,968

7361

Wales



23,733



23,977



25,169



25,546



27,692



24,402



55,112



57,902



25,634



25,243



23,879



20,557



358,846



32,622



Glasgow

6267

6800

7212

6800

6492

6641

6650

6562

0

8000

6634

6800

74858

6805

Edinb'h

3584

2479

4981

4324

4962

3254

2475

3618

23642

0

3159

3799

60277

5480

Scotland



9851



9279



12193



11124



10992



9895



9125



10180



23642



8000



9793



10299



134373



12,216



Treviso

3700

4000

1000

2500

2500

1900

3700

3000

3500

4000

0

5000

32600

2964

Zebre

1850

2430

2400

3000

1634

2650

2308

2000

1850

1500

4509

0

24981

2271

Italy



3350



6430



3400



5500



4134



3400



6008



5000



5350



5500



4509



5000



57581



5,235

































Total Away

82598

89586

108867

74414

81402

79041

98625

111187

101605

75649

71447

77251



1,075,840

Avg Away

7509

8144

9897

6765

7400

7186

8966

10108

9237

6877

6495

7023



8,891



Last edited by Pot Hale on Sun May 08, 2016 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun May 08, 2016 10:21 am

It's interesting that interesting has been put in the title of this thread, as it's not interesting in the slightest.

Have a great day Very Happy

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Sun May 08, 2016 9:06 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's interesting that interesting has been put in the title of this thread, as it's not interesting in the slightest.

Have a great day Very Happy

It's even more interesting that the premise of the original article is not even vaguely accurate when the full season is taken into account.

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by Griff on Sun May 08, 2016 9:54 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's interesting that interesting has been put in the title of this thread, as it's not interesting in the slightest.

Have a great day Very Happy

It's even more interesting that the premise of the original article is not even vaguely accurate when the full season is taken into account.

20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing Pot.

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Mon May 09, 2016 10:13 am

Griff wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's interesting that interesting has been put in the title of this thread, as it's not interesting in the slightest.

Have a great day Very Happy

It's even more interesting that the premise of the original article is not even vaguely accurate when the full season is taken into account.

20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing Pot.
Hindsight after 20 rounds?  I'd call that fact-checking. The original author might have looked beyond one weekend's round of Matches to establish a more accurate picture, Griff.

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Re: Interesting comparison between Pro12 and Aviva

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