Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

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Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 11:38 am

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Saracens  v   Wasps
23/04/2016 15:00 Madejski Stadium Sky Sports / beIN Sports

Officials
Referee - Roman Poite
Touch Judge 1 - Jerome Garces (France)
Touch Judge 2 - Pascal Gauzere (France)
TMO - Eric Gauzins (France)
Citing Commissioner - Stefano Marrama (Italy)


Form

9/4/16 Saracens 29 - 20 Saints 8,050
23/1/16 Toulouse 17 - 28 Saracens 12,498
16/1/16 Saracens 33 - 17 Ulster 9,642


9/4/16 Wasps 25 - 24 Chiefs 23,866
23/1/16 Wasps 51 - 10 Leinster 16,519
17/1/16 Toulon 15 - 11 Wasps 13,344


Teams

Saracens
15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. Chris Wyles; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Petrus du Plessis, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Michael Rhodes, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Billy Vunipola
16. Jared Saunders , 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Titi Lamositele, 19. Jim Hamilton, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Charlie Hodgson, 23. Marcelo Bosch

Wasps
15. Charles Piutau; 14. Christian Wade, 13. Elliot Daly, 12. Siale Piutau, 11. Frank Halai; 10. Jimmy Gopperth, 9. Dan Robson; 1. Matt Mullan, 2. Carlo Festuccia, 3. Lorenzo Cittadini, 4. Joe Launchbury, 5. Bradley Davies, 6. James Haskell, 7. George Smith, 8. Nathan Hughes
16. Ashley Johnson, 17. Simon McIntyre, 18. Phil Swainston, 19. Sam Jones, 20. Thomas Young, 21. Joe Simpson, 22. Ruaridh Jackson, 23. Rob Miller


Preview
The top two in the AP table meet at the Madj for the first all English semi-final since 2007, when Wasps beat Northampton. Since those heady days Wasps have made little impact on the top tier competition, while their opponents have been on the rise. This will be Sarries 4th semi-final in a row, and 5th in total (first in 2008). Sarries will be all too aware that they have lost all but one of those semi-finals so far and will be desperate to make their second final. To do so they know they have to play much better than they did in the 1/4 final, though it is fair to say that Wasps were not at their best in the 1/4s despite the thrilling come-back.
The last time these two teams met was during the 6Ns when Wasps visited Barnet and thrashed the reigning AP champs. While both teams were missing players, Sarries were worse affected and everything Wasps touched turned to gold that day. We should expect a much tighter game this weekend. Sarries will look to squeeze Wasps up front, then put massive pressure on their opponents back line. Wasps will need to execute their game plan with precision, fail to do so and Saracens will swamp them.





Leicester Tigers  v   Racing 92
24/04/2016 15:15  City Ground BT Sport / FR 2 / beIN Sports

Officials
Referee - Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch - Judge 1 George Clancy (Ireland)
Touch - Judge 2 Leighton Hodges (Wales)
TMO - Simon McDowell (Ireland)
Citing Commissioner - Jeff Mark (Wales)


Form

10/4/16 Tigers 41 - 13 SF Paris 20,866
24/1/16 SF Paris 36 - 21 Tigers 12,073
16/1/16 Tigers 47 - 7 Treviso 19,076


10/4/16 Racing 92 19 - 16 Toulon 15,340
23/1/16 Glasgow 22 - 5 Racing 92 9,063
17/1/16 Racing 92 64 - 14 Scarlets 6,931


Teams

Leicester Tigers
15. Matthew Tait; 14. Telusa Veainu, 13. Peter Betham, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Vereniki Goneva; 10. Freddie Burns, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Marcos Ayerza, 2. Harry Thacker, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Michael Fitzgerald, 7. Lachlan McCaffrey, 8. Opéti Fonua
16. Greg Bateman, 17. Logovii Mulipola, 18. Fraser Balmain, 19. Ed Slater, 20. Tom Croft, 21. Sam Harrison, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Adam Thompstone

Racing 92
15. Brice Dulin; 14. Joe Rokocoko, 13. Johannes Goosen, 12. Alexandre Dumoulin, 11. Juan Imhoff; 10. Dan Carter, 9. Maxime Machenaud; 1. Eddy Ben Arous, 2. Virgile Lacombe, 3. Ben Tameifuna, 4. Luke Charteris, 5. Francois van der Merwe, 6. Wenceslas Lauret, 7. Bernard Le Roux, 8. Chris Masoe
16. Camille Chat, 17. Khatchik Vartanov, 18. Luc Ducalcon, 19. Manuel Carizza, 20. Antonie Claassen, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Remi Tales, 23. Louis Dupichot

Preview
It is over 90 years since Leicester last met Racing. Fair to say things have changed just a little since the 1920's, and it is extremely doubtful that either side will warm up with a visit to a strip club as Tigers did on their first visit to France. Jacky Lorenzetti has spent big money assembling the star-studded Racing team, with Dan Carter surely the jewel in the crown. Even on one leg his class was enough to guide the Parisians to a narrow win over three-time champs Toulon. However they are far from a one man team with stardust sprinkled throughout the side. Racing's T14 form has stuttered in recent weeks and a largely second string team went down to Toulouse last week. With the big names coming in though, they are - on paper at least - far stronger than their English rivals. It is hard to see weaknesses in the Racing pack with an excellent second row pairing sandwiched by very powerful back and front rows. Tigers will be hoping that they can exploit a possible lack of speed in the back row, but cannot assume that their opponents will tire - or be as poor as their city rivals Stade were. It is to be hoped that Castro can keep his cool in any post match interviews this time.
Leicester have been like the little girl, when they are good they are very, very good but when they are not they are awful. This will be a huge test physically. The front five cannot give an inch while the back row have to win the battle of the breakdown. Secure a decent amount of possession and they have the backs to score tries from anywhere. However they need to be clinical both in attack and defence. Racing will exploit any dropped passes or defensive dog-legs.
This is Leicester's first semi-final since the unforgetable game in Cardiff in 2009, and Racing's first ever semi.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Apr 2016, 12:07 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by eirebilly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:06 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Sarries players getting a good bitching here. When their players do it for England again like in the 6N they'll be heroes once more!
Same every week Sarries player does something and they are the lowest of the low scum of the earth, player from a more "preferred team" and its justifiable play. pull on an England shirt and bar Farrell and Ashton they can do no wrong

As I said, I am neither for or against Sarries. I think they are the best team in Europe right now but in Farrell and Ashton they have two of the most unlikeable players in my opinion. Both seriously let themselves and their clubs down far too regularly due to petulance. Remove that and they would become better players and as a result, more likeable.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Fanster on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:07 pm

yappysnap wrote:Well that game just leaves a sour taste in the mouth

It shouldn't, respect has to be given to Sarries lineout and breakdown work, and that maul was world class...

I 100% agree though, the team wanting to play less rugby, and drag the other team into rotten negative tactics and 'gamesmansip' has done the job again. It's getting too common in rugby, holding at rucks, pulling players back, running guidance lines, and slowing ball down are winning games.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Knackeredknees on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:07 pm

yappysnap wrote:Well that game just leaves a sour taste in the mouth
why yappy?

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:07 pm

You can't kick someone in the head clearly but it really does seem unjust when a bit of cheating gets rewarded like that - 3 points and an oppo player in the bin - and this is not a dig at Sarries I hate it when this happens whoever is playing ...

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by eirebilly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:09 pm

Heaf wrote:You can't kick someone in the head clearly but it really does seem unjust when a bit of cheating gets rewarded like that - 3 points and an oppo player in the bin - and this is not a dig at Sarries I hate it when this happens whoever is playing ...

As I said earlier, red for the kick, yellow for the cynical play and penalty against Sarries would be the best result in my opinion.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Knackeredknees on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:11 pm

Fanster wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Well that game just leaves a sour taste in the mouth

It shouldn't, respect has to be given to Sarries lineout and breakdown work, and that maul was world class...

I 100% agree though, the team wanting to play less rugby, and drag the other team into rotten negative tactics and 'gamesmansip' has done the job again. It's getting too common in rugby, holding at rucks, pulling players back, running guidance lines, and slowing ball down are winning games.


Not really fanster, from the commentary I was getting in the first half sarries were playing all the rugby, second half a change of thinking(wasps will need to throw everything at us, so close all gaps and they will force mistakes then hit them hard on the counter)

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Welly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:12 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
Welly wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:
Welly wrote: Lol only because they have one off big games at Wembley etc where they give away a crap load of tickets.

take away those games and you will be way down.

so we'll take away the same from Quins, Wasps, et all who play in the double header and big games and we'll still be above most in the league. Maybe look at % of capacity sold for a truer reflection

Wasps haven't played a big game this season.

Taking away your 2 games at other stadiums where you were the home team your average attendance is:
8,995

WASP's have played two games at twickers this season, and our capacity is max 10k, so 90% of capacity

1 v Irish

And they were not the home team either

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Knackeredknees on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:13 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
Fanster wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Well that game just leaves a sour taste in the mouth

It shouldn't, respect has to be given to Sarries lineout and breakdown work, and that maul was world class...

I 100% agree though, the team wanting to play less rugby, and drag the other team into rotten negative tactics and 'gamesmansip' has done the job again. It's getting too common in rugby, holding at rucks, pulling players back, running guidance lines, and slowing ball down are winning games.


Not really fanster, from the commentary I was getting in the first half sarries were playing all the rugby, second half a change of thinking(wasps will need to throw everything at us, so close all gaps and they will force mistakes then hit them hard on the counter)

I agree however you cant red card a player then not give a penalty against them. but yes yellow the cynical play, wish refs actually had the balls to do it

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:14 pm

Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:Mikey, ticket prices are set by ERCC and out of the clubs control. its about the same price as the old format.

I am surprised that there is such a low turnout though as both sides are well supported(despite what welly insinuates)

Thanks KK. Is that true though, and I'm meant to take your word for it? Saracens had no trouble filling this stadium years ago when they faced Munster in a European SF.

Munster have a huge travelling support though.

True. Doubt they would have filled half the stadium though. The competition was also different back then, which might be worth noting.

That was at the Rioch I think which holds 32 000 16k+ munster fans would travel that far to a semi final game

Ah, so was it actually London Irish playing at this stadium, against Toulouse?

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Heaf wrote:You can't kick someone in the head clearly but it really does seem unjust when a bit of cheating gets rewarded like that - 3 points and an oppo player in the bin - and this is not a dig at Sarries I hate it when this happens whoever is playing ...

As I said earlier, red for the kick, yellow for the cynical play and penalty against Sarries would be the best result in my opinion.
I could live with that ... would at least make the instigator take some of the consequences too ...

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by eirebilly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:16 pm

Heaf wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Heaf wrote:You can't kick someone in the head clearly but it really does seem unjust when a bit of cheating gets rewarded like that - 3 points and an oppo player in the bin - and this is not a dig at Sarries I hate it when this happens whoever is playing ...

As I said earlier, red for the kick, yellow for the cynical play and penalty against Sarries would be the best result in my opinion.
I could live with that ... would at least make the instigator take some of the consequences too ...

There will always be questions about the penalty but I firmly believe in situations like that, the original penalty should stand and serve as a deterrent for others.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Welly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:17 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:Mikey, ticket prices are set by ERCC and out of the clubs control. its about the same price as the old format.

I am surprised that there is such a low turnout though as both sides are well supported(despite what welly insinuates)

Thanks KK. Is that true though, and I'm meant to take your word for it? Saracens had no trouble filling this stadium years ago when they faced Munster in a European SF.

Munster have a huge travelling support though.

True. Doubt they would have filled half the stadium though. The competition was also different back then, which might be worth noting.

That was at the Rioch I think which holds 32 000 16k+ munster fans would travel that far to a semi final game

Ah, so was it actually London Irish playing at this stadium, against Toulouse?

I blieve so

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:18 pm

The deliberate knock-on by Sarries that stopped Wade getting the ball with a clear run down the wing should have been yellow too ..

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by yappysnap on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
Fanster wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Well that game just leaves a sour taste in the mouth

It shouldn't, respect has to be given to Sarries lineout and breakdown work, and that maul was world class...

I 100% agree though, the team wanting to play less rugby, and drag the other team into rotten negative tactics and 'gamesmansip' has done the job again. It's getting too common in rugby, holding at rucks, pulling players back, running guidance lines, and slowing ball down are winning games.


Not really fanster, from the commentary I was getting in the first half sarries were playing all the rugby, second half a change of thinking(wasps will need to throw everything at us, so close all gaps and they will force mistakes then hit them hard on the counter)

For about 20 mins Sarries played some rugby.

For the rest of the game they just dragged Wasps into a mud wrestle and as a neutral bored the pants off me. Wasps to the very end were trying to play, Sarries just defended, kicked, defended, gave away penalties when needed and killed the game.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
Not really fanster, from the commentary I was getting in the first half sarries were playing all the rugby, second half a change of thinking(wasps will need to throw everything at us, so close all gaps and they will force mistakes then hit them hard on the counter)

Actually Sarries played very little rugby in the first half, I suspect radio commentary made it sound much more interesting than it was. Dominated territory but their attack was pretty much just pick and go and kick. However If Farrell, Baaritt and Taylor had been able to pass and catch they would have built a bigger lead.

The right team won, but they are very difficult to like. The continual cynical play off the ball is so concerted it has to be planned and practised.

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by nathan on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:20 pm

Heaf wrote:The deliberate knock-on by Sarries that stopped Wade getting the ball with a clear run down the wing should have been yellow too ..
Have to agree with that

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:21 pm

Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:Mikey, ticket prices are set by ERCC and out of the clubs control. its about the same price as the old format.

I am surprised that there is such a low turnout though as both sides are well supported(despite what welly insinuates)

Thanks KK. Is that true though, and I'm meant to take your word for it? Saracens had no trouble filling this stadium years ago when they faced Munster in a European SF.

Munster have a huge travelling support though.

True. Doubt they would have filled half the stadium though. The competition was also different back then, which might be worth noting.

That was at the Rioch I think which holds 32 000 16k+ munster fans would travel that far to a semi final game

Ah, so was it actually London Irish playing at this stadium, against Toulouse?

I blieve so
LI did play Munster at this stadium a few years back - and yes it was full ...

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Knackeredknees on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:21 pm

Anyone got any possession stats, pens etc for the game?

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by eirebilly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

As a Munster fan, I would have to agree that both our sides pretty much invented that style of play thumbsup

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:22 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Heaf wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Heaf wrote:You can't kick someone in the head clearly but it really does seem unjust when a bit of cheating gets rewarded like that - 3 points and an oppo player in the bin - and this is not a dig at Sarries I hate it when this happens whoever is playing ...

As I said earlier, red for the kick, yellow for the cynical play and penalty against Sarries would be the best result in my opinion.
I could live with that ... would at least make the instigator take some of the consequences too ...

There will always be questions about the penalty but I firmly believe in situations like that, the original penalty should stand and serve as a deterrent for others.
agree

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:24 pm

eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

As a Munster fan, I would have to agree that both our sides pretty much invented that style of play thumbsup

that damned Neil Back. Turned you good, honest, sober Munster men into cheating, lying, drunken barstewards just by his nefarious example Very Happy

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Sin é on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Welly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:Mikey, ticket prices are set by ERCC and out of the clubs control. its about the same price as the old format.

I am surprised that there is such a low turnout though as both sides are well supported(despite what welly insinuates)

Thanks KK. Is that true though, and I'm meant to take your word for it? Saracens had no trouble filling this stadium years ago when they faced Munster in a European SF.

Munster have a huge travelling support though.

True. Doubt they would have filled half the stadium though. The competition was also different back then, which might be worth noting.

That was at the Rioch I think which holds 32 000 16k+ munster fans would travel that far to a semi final game

Ah, so was it actually London Irish playing at this stadium, against Toulouse?

I was at that Saracens v Munster game at the Ricoh (2008) - 30K at it, I'd say 80% Munster supporters.

Irish people would go to any game in England that involved any of the Irish Provinces. I came across a fair few London Irish fans at that game - all supporting Munster!

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Welly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:24 pm

eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

As a Munster fan, I would have to agree that both our sides pretty much invented that style of play thumbsup

Can't ever remember Leicester pushing the refs boundaries.

Certainly not in a big European game

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:24 pm

LondonTiger wrote:...I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.
That's a fair way of putting it. I did enjoy the match but feel slightly deflated at the outcome.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm

Welly wrote:Can't ever remember Leicester pushing the refs boundaries.

Certainly not in a big European game
My browser isn't showing your smiley icon...

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Knackeredknees on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:
Not really fanster, from the commentary I was getting in the first half sarries were playing all the rugby, second half a change of thinking(wasps will need to throw everything at us, so close all gaps and they will force mistakes then hit them hard on the counter)

Actually Sarries played very little rugby in the first half, I suspect radio commentary made it sound much more interesting than it was. Dominated territory but their attack was pretty much just pick and go and kick. However If Farrell, Baaritt and Taylor had been able to pass and catch they would have built a bigger lead.

The right team won, but they are very difficult to like. The continual cynical play off the ball is so concerted it has to be planned and practised.

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

That's the thing that pisses me off the most, fans/supporters who act as if their team has never done anything like this before. and Sarries deserve to be hated for cynical play and off the ball stuff

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:27 pm

Did anyone see who pulled the maul down for the PT - from the replay it looks like Brits fell over at the front then everyone else just fell over him?

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by eirebilly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:30 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

As a Munster fan, I would have to agree that both our sides pretty much invented that style of play thumbsup

that damned Neil Back. Turned you good, honest, sober Munster men into cheating, lying, drunken barstewards just by his nefarious example Very Happy

laughing

Bitter memories of him thumbsup

Good luck tomorrow there bud.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:30 pm

Nothing against Sarries in particular - I just don't like it when any team that instigates something gets a benefit from the other side reacting - whoever starts it should get penalised too.  

If would be different if you could be sure the refs were picking up the original offence but so often the reaction is because the officials are not doing anything about the cynical play.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:32 pm

eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

As a Munster fan, I would have to agree that both our sides pretty much invented that style of play thumbsup

that damned Neil Back. Turned you good, honest, sober Munster men into cheating, lying, drunken barstewards just by his nefarious example Very Happy

laughing

Bitter memories of him thumbsup

Good luck tomorrow there bud.


We may well need some luck. Even then the probable reward for winning will be to face Saracens in a final and then a Semi in consecutive weekends, no doubt losing both.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Knackeredknees on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:34 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:

Mind you I guess for opponents and fans it is similar to Leicester in 2002, constantly pushing the boundaries and doing everything possible so long as the ref is not looking. Thus I expect Sarries fans to be highly defensive of their team (as I was in 2002 and Munster fans a few years later when their team was the same) while the rest of us moan.

As a Munster fan, I would have to agree that both our sides pretty much invented that style of play thumbsup

that damned Neil Back. Turned you good, honest, sober Munster men into cheating, lying, drunken barstewards just by his nefarious example Very Happy

laughing

Bitter memories of him thumbsup

Good luck tomorrow there bud.


We may well need some luck. Even then the probable reward for winning will be to face Saracens in a final and then a Semi in consecutive weekends, no doubt losing both.

tell you what, you let us win the final...............and we promise not to cheat as much the following week

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:36 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
That's the thing that pisses me off the most, fans/supporters who act as if their team has never done anything like this before. and Sarries deserve to be hated for cynical play and off the ball stuff

Yeah but the difference is that Saracens are disliked just as much, if not more so, for their off-field behaviour.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:38 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:
That's the thing that pisses me off the most, fans/supporters who act as if their team has never done anything like this before. and Sarries deserve to be hated for cynical play and off the ball stuff

Yeah but the difference is that Saracens are disliked just as much, if not more so, for their off-field behaviour.

I suspect you mean their corporate off field behaviour.

AFAIK the players off-field behaviour is exemplary, even if people did try and paint Ashton as the villain when someone else tried to smash a wine glass in his face.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:41 pm

Oh of course, nothing to do with the players.

As it goes I don't dislike any of their players, Ashton and Farrell included.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Heaf on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:42 pm

A reference to creative accounting maybe?

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Fanster on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 5:54 pm

The issue with the ruck is the constant hlding, falling the wrong side, forcing your way to obstruct, and plenty other offences that could easily be squashed by allowing rucking again.

A quick stud to Itojes forearm/hand and he would let go in an instant, and the following ruck he'd avoid the same treatment.

The trick is to deincentivise players from trying to cheat by ending up on the wrong side of the ruck, not to prioritise that player!

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 6:58 pm

On Sky, Will Greenwood said Wasps were better off being behind at half-time, because Dai Young could give them a reality check they would believe.

If I was a Wasps player, I'd be royally knacked off that Gopperth got charged down, given how difficult scoring had been up to that point. Saracens looked more on edge when they were behind, than in front.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 7:53 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:If I was a Wasps player, I'd be royally knacked off that Gopperth got charged down, given how difficult scoring had been up to that point. Saracens looked more on edge when they were behind, than in front.

Agreed. Despite dominating possession and territory in the first half, Sarries had little clue how they were going to score - not helped by Farrell having a poor day in general, but most obviously off the tee. That gifted try really settled the Sarries nerves - hold out a bit longer, another missed penalty say and an interception try could have been on the cards as Sarries looked to force things.



However, all ifs, buts and maybes.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by beshocked on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 8:55 pm

Ashton and Farrell Jr are well known as the two biggest idiots at the club. No surprise they are disliked.

As for the game itself, I thought Poite allowed Wasps to get away with quite a bit. Was actually surprised he YCed Mcyintre. After all he didn't punish him for taking out Goode. Ignored piatau's high tackle on Taylor, not even a penalty. YCed Farrell for an offense that was quite similar.

Disallowed a Sarries try despite in real time, Ashton's contact being minimal. Also cynical taking out of Taylor in the build up to Wasps try.

Wasps cynical play has been ignored by most on here.

In the end Sarries had too much grunt, Farrell was poor and petulant, the backs weren't great overall but the pack got on top. Wasps just couldn't give enough of a platform to their backs and Sarries seemed to have the edge when it came to tactical kicking too.

Itoje is a player who plays on the edge and he's does give away penalties but he's a huge nuisance for the opposition.

He doesn't lose his cool though.


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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Ozzy3213 on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 9:15 pm

Just to add to the crowd size debate. I heard from a London Irish supporter who went that Pests fans outnumbered GloboGym followers by about 5 to 1.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Welly on Sat 23 Apr 2016, 10:20 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Just to add to the crowd size debate.  I heard from a London Irish supporter who went that Pests fans outnumbered GloboGym followers by about 5 to 1.

Not surprised at all TBH

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Fanster on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 12:04 am

beshocked wrote:Ashton and Farrell Jr are well known as the two biggest idiots at the club. No surprise they are disliked.

As for the game itself, I thought Poite allowed Wasps to get away with quite a bit. Was actually surprised he YCed Mcyintre. After all he didn't punish him for taking out Goode. Ignored piatau's high tackle on Taylor, not even a penalty. YCed Farrell for an offense that was quite similar.

Disallowed a Sarries try despite in real time, Ashton's contact being minimal. Also cynical taking out of Taylor in the build up to Wasps try.

Wasps cynical play has been ignored by most on here.

In the end Sarries had too much grunt, Farrell was poor and petulant, the backs weren't great overall but the pack got on top. Wasps just couldn't give enough of a platform to their backs and Sarries seemed to have the edge when it came to tactical kicking too.

Itoje is a player who plays on the edge and he's does give away penalties but he's a huge nuisance for the opposition.

He doesn't lose his cool though.


Thats incredibly one eyed...

Goode wasn't taken out, thats blatantly the use of vicious language for a big man not being able to change direction in the air.

Piataus tackle was borderline, and hits the shoulder, similar to Farrells first penalty hit, however Farrells card is a lunge into a falling player, and when both players hit the deck, one clearly injured, Farrell is holding the players throat!

Ashtons contact can be called whatever you like, its still contact.

Taylor, I think that actually couldve been given.

On the big picture though, Sarries do more than any other club in europe at present off the ball, behind the back, and especially around the ruck, which in fairness Mccaw made a career of...

Doesn't mean neutrals have to like it though.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Cyril on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 12:41 am

Well done Sarries.

There will always be haters.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by yappysnap on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 7:27 am

Fanster wrote:
beshocked wrote:Ashton and Farrell Jr are well known as the two biggest idiots at the club. No surprise they are disliked.

As for the game itself, I thought Poite allowed Wasps to get away with quite a bit. Was actually surprised he YCed Mcyintre. After all he didn't punish him for taking out Goode. Ignored piatau's high tackle on Taylor, not even a penalty. YCed Farrell for an offense that was quite similar.

Disallowed a Sarries try despite in real time, Ashton's contact being minimal. Also cynical taking out of Taylor in the build up to Wasps try.

Wasps cynical play has been ignored by most on here.

In the end Sarries had too much grunt, Farrell was poor and petulant, the backs weren't great overall but the pack got on top. Wasps just couldn't give enough of a platform to their backs and Sarries seemed to have the edge when it came to tactical kicking too.

Itoje is a player who plays on the edge and he's does give away penalties but he's a huge nuisance for the opposition.

He doesn't lose his cool though.


Thats incredibly one eyed...

Goode wasn't taken out, thats blatantly the use of vicious language for a big man not being able to change direction in the air.

Piataus tackle was borderline, and hits the shoulder, similar to Farrells first penalty hit, however Farrells card is a lunge into a falling player, and when both players hit the deck, one clearly injured, Farrell is holding the players throat!

Ashtons contact can be called whatever you like, its still contact.

Taylor, I think that actually couldve been given.

On the big picture though, Sarries do more than any other club in europe at present off the ball, behind the back, and especially around the ruck, which in fairness Mccaw made a career of...

Doesn't mean neutrals have to like it though.

Pretty much spot on there

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 8:10 am

Did Poite even get to adjudicate on the Farrell/Robson incident? As they would not show the incident on TV citing the seriousness of the injury (until after the binning anyway) and stated the TMO was looking at it instead, I wondered if it was shown at the ground.

Such a shame for Dan Robson - he was playing really well and his service, especially left to right was spot on.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by beshocked on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 8:38 am

One eyed? What simply because I have pointed out that some decisions went the way of Wasps?

I thought Wyles was fortunate not to get YCed, I do acknowledge that Itoje was being sneaky by grabbing onto McIntyre. Was pleased he got YCed though because even if someone is grabbing onto your foot you have to keep cool. McIntyre was too much of a hothead.

Sorry what was McIntyre planning of doing then? He took out Goode. I thought it was reckless, charging in like some of out of control bull. If he can't change his direction he should think first. Should just allow big men to run into kickers like that with no punishment?

Piutau hit borderline? Ha! Clear penalty at least. Sure there's a little bit of mitigation because Taylor was a bit low but that was similar to Robeson-Farrell incident. No consistency.

Didn't realise rugby was a non contact sport - Ashton's contact was minimal and in real time it looks fine, slow it down and of course it looks worse but that's generally the case.

Oh and I think Farrell deserved the YC he's a fool. It's just seemed like no consistency from the ref.

Thank you Cyril of course there will always be haters, generally people who ignore the cheating their own team does.

Ignore Wasps cynical play if you like, ignore every other teams cynical play if you like Fanster. All sides look to cheat In my opinion.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 9:01 am

Saracens stretch it more than the vast majority of teams, imo. It is so concerted especially the "closing the door" on chasers that two players pretty much always do, that I believe it is coached.

Of course as I said earlier it is the same as Leicester in 2002, Munster 2006 etc, and as others have mentioned the same as McCaw. My only advice is to grow a thicker skin.


Piutau on Taylor quite different.

1) From behind so far less reckless.
2) Taylow was almost bent double
3) Not leading with the head and shoulder to someones head
4) different official adjudicating it.

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 10:19 am

Well, off to pick up my Dad, Brother and younger nephew before heading up to Nottingham.


clap - clap - clapclapclap  - clapclap - clapclap
TIGERS

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by eirebilly on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 11:49 am

I am off to catch a plane. Best of luck to the Tigers fans Very Happy

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

Post by Welly on Sun 24 Apr 2016, 1:13 pm

Feeling nervous now.

Two things i like to see changed next season is:
1) Ticket prices changed
2) Scheduling of playoff is crap.

I mean
2 weeks between the Q/F and the S/F is nothing and then you have the Final before the domestic finals.

The HC system made so much more sense.
Having a 3 week gap between Each knock out stage and have the champions cup Final being the very last game of domestic rugby (Or at least after the Pro 12 and AP finals).

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Re: Champions Cup Semi-Finals - 23/24 April

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