European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Page 19 of 20 Previous  1 ... 11 ... 18, 19, 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 26 Apr 2016, 1:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

I know I will get a bashing off some quarters on here, but sorry it has to be said, looking at the crowds for the two semi-finals on the weekend, it would seem the interest is not there. The aggregate figure for the two games was a paltry 38,968 people, there was more people than that for the Cardiff Blues V Leicester semi final a few years ago 44,212 turned up that day.

This proves that the greedy club owners have ruined a once prestigious competition, admired by thousands and getting better year on year. Where are all these new massive sponsorship deals ? Where is all this money we are supposed to be swimming in ? 

All I saw on the weekend was empty seats, the future of the European club competition for me looks bleak, dwindling crowds, the same teams ALL the time in the knockout stages, lack of interest, the French already consider their own league a priority, for me something drastic needs to be done as it would seem the writing is on the wall for one of our favourite club competitions, it's sad, as it's been well and truly ruined by the greedy club owners.

Take a read of some of these, you might find them interesting:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/04/25/empty-seats-as-saracens-and-racing-92-won-through-must-be-a-wake/
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/much-better-europe-champions-cup-11238143

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down


Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue 17 May 2016, 5:40 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
I could think of it like the Carter deal or I could think your reluctance to provide a link is because your links are non existent and are just making things up now

Heaslip invested in Bear in 2012, his new deal wasn't signed until 2014 which included new image rights clauses etc so it seems your 'facts' don't add up

Not your day is it Phil

Erm, you found the link yourself to the business investments to get the guys up and running with interests outside of rugby, so how the hell could I be making things up?

You seem now incapable of putting the 2+2 into knowing that the 'private' help isn't new in Irish rugby but is now growing.

Your inability to put things together astounds me. That you're so cocky whilst being so dumb is amazing.

Of all the people to criticise another for coming across as cocky...

Debating etiquette is something that many learn quite early in life. It is a shame that your posts, which are quite clearly well researched, are hidden behind a plethora of self righteous knobbery that impresses no-one.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 9877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 24
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 17 May 2016, 10:45 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
I would think it will go a long way to clearing their debt. The big problem for them has been the falling attendances. So I'm sure that will be their focus. Munster will be fine.

If you think it will go a long way to clearing their debt please could you a) quantify that debt and b) tell me what you think this game will generate.

Thanks.
From recent reports from Munster and the latest annual report from IRFU, the debt remaining on Thomond would appear to be €9.6m loan on a stadium asset worth c. €40m.   The IRFU and Munster co-own the stadium currently, with the loan from IRFU set against Munster's stake in the stadium owner company.   Repayment of these monies is set to a specific schedule with final repayment to be made in 2027.  
"Interest is chargeable on the loan to the Branch based on the effective cost of funds to the Union. The loan is to be repaid on a phased basis over the next number of years as follows:
30 April 2016 - €200k
30 April 2017 - €4.2m
30 April 2018 - 30 April 2026 €500k per annum)
30 April 2027 - €762k

2017 has an eye-watering payment chunk of €4.2m - how that is going to be paid remains to be seen. Part of Munster's plan for reducing the debt includes marquee games such as the Maori test, games in US, brand leverage through merchandising, stadium naming rights, and events such as the sale of season/debenture tickets in 2017.  

However, clearly performances on the pitch are critical to their revenue streams, so getting into the top-tier cup at the expense of another Welsh or Scottish was essential this season.  And Munster need to continue that trend.   The club received an extra €1m from the IRFU this season - as did the other three provinces - to assist with their increasing costs, particularly in securing and/or attracting existing/new players.   The appointment of Erasmus won't have come cheaply either.

Munster said at their AGM last year that they'd incurred a €400k loss, down from €600k the previous year. Increased attendances at Independent Park helped somewhat on that reduction.   This season's poor performances in PRO12 and Euro comps won't have helped matters.

On the subject of matches against test sides/visiting sides, Garret Fitzgerald, Munster CEO, had this to say: "“The IRFU won’t allow them because they say they’re injuring the sales of their tickets for the autumn internationals. We make a request every two years to bring teams to Thomond Park and they turn us down religiously. A huge part of the Union funding comes from international games and they have to protect that. If we have an attractive fixture here, no one will travel. If we had one of those games every two years, you could clear around half a million.” So that would bear out the earlier comment of €500k that someone made.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4631
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Sin é on Tue 17 May 2016, 11:24 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
I would think it will go a long way to clearing their debt. The big problem for them has been the falling attendances. So I'm sure that will be their focus. Munster will be fine.

If you think it will go a long way to clearing their debt please could you a) quantify that debt and b) tell me what you think this game will generate.

Thanks.
2017 has an eye-watering payment chunk of €4.2m - how that is going to be paid remains to be seen.    Part of Munster's plan for reducing the debt includes marquee games such as the Maori test, games in US, brand leverage through merchandising, stadium naming rights, and events such as the sale of season/debenture tickets in 2017.      

10 year ticket sales will be up then. As far as I can recall, the last sale brought in €9m.

Mind you, I don't get all this panic about Munster's 9.6m debt. They have managed to raise 35m already. Only an Irish Province would be expected to pay back its parent (IRFU). Every other sporting organisation would expect a grant.



Sin é

Posts : 12554
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Tue 17 May 2016, 11:39 pm

Sin dont start Phil on that hes already in a tizzy about the NI Executive paying for Ravenhill

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Sin é on Tue 17 May 2016, 11:51 pm

Phil must be really peed off that the Irish Gov. put 190m into the 400K Aviva Stadium with the IRFU being debt free as soon as it was built! Very Happy


Sin é

Posts : 12554
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:07 am

Sin é wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
I would think it will go a long way to clearing their debt. The big problem for them has been the falling attendances. So I'm sure that will be their focus. Munster will be fine.

If you think it will go a long way to clearing their debt please could you a) quantify that debt and b) tell me what you think this game will generate.

Thanks.
2017 has an eye-watering payment chunk of €4.2m - how that is going to be paid remains to be seen.    Part of Munster's plan for reducing the debt includes marquee games such as the Maori test, games in US, brand leverage through merchandising, stadium naming rights, and events such as the sale of season/debenture tickets in 2017.      

10 year ticket sales will be up then. As far as I can recall, the last sale brought in €9m.

Mind you, I don't get all this panic about Munster's 9.6m debt. They have managed to raise 35m already. Only an Irish Province would be expected to pay back its parent (IRFU). Every other sporting organisation would expect a grant.

They have managed to raise €35m already?   For what?  From what?  Is this linked to the additional €34m loan Munster received from IRFU as reported in the Union's 2014 annual accounts?

You were close enough on the 10-year ticket sales.  Initial offer of 1500 tickets at €5,500 each was sold out and they added another 250 tickets in the offer round. Total sales came to €9.625m.  That means new tickets will operate from 2018.   Wonder what they hope for in sales this time and what price will they set them at?  It covered 4 league games and 3 European pool games the last time round.  

Leinster and RDS already have their planning permission sorted and work is due to get underway this year to expand RDS Arena to 25,000 at a cost of €20m.

Now it's Connacht's turn....

Pot Hale

Posts : 4631
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:16 am

marty2086 wrote:

Actually Phil you seem to be the one with the problem, players investing their own money isn't anything to do with private investment in rugby. Two separate issues

Educating you is bloody painful.

Private investment in rugby can come in many forms. In Ireland, traditionally, it has come from gifts (such as training facilities) to setting up players with business interests IN IRELAND outside of the game.

Is it joining up in your brain yet?

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:18 am

Munchkin wrote:

Well if they sell out at €25 a ticket (average) = €650,000, and that's before drinks/merchandise, etc.

As above; I don't know the Maori split. Whatever the Munster profit is, it will be significant in helping reduce debt though.

I'd forgotten that you lot don't pay VAT on tickets.

What are we looking at here? Maybe cutting off 2% of the debt? Whilst the ongoing business costs add to the debt each week.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:20 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Laughable for someone demanding links for his own comments.

It really isn't for a simple reason that a simple mind should understand: if you accuse others of making a claim, you'd better be able to show that claim else you could easily be lying. It's your accusation.

Typing something into Google to easily find something you should already know isn't at all comparable.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:21 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Of all the people to criticise another for coming across as cocky...

Debating etiquette is something that many learn quite early in life. It is a shame that your posts, which are quite clearly well researched, are hidden behind a plethora of self righteous knobbery that impresses no-one.

Cheers, Rory. I didn't realise that this was a venture in trying to impress.

As an aside, you've impressed me. So well done on that achievement.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:23 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Laughable for someone demanding links for his own comments.

It really isn't for a simple reason that a simple mind should understand: if you accuse others of making a claim, you'd better be able to show that claim else you could easily be lying. It's your accusation.

Typing something into Google to easily find something you should already know isn't at all comparable.

And all you have to do is click on your name! Bit of a hypocrite as well aren't you!

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:24 am

Pot Hale wrote:
From recent reports from Munster and the latest annual report from IRFU, the debt remaining on Thomond would appear to be €9.6m loan on a stadium asset worth c. €40m.   The IRFU and Munster co-own the stadium currently, with the loan from IRFU set against Munster's stake in the stadium owner company.   Repayment of these monies is set to a specific schedule with final repayment to be made in 2027.  
"Interest is chargeable on the loan to the Branch based on the effective cost of funds to the Union. The loan is to be repaid on a phased basis over the next number of years as follows:
30 April 2016 - €200k
30 April 2017 - €4.2m
30 April 2018 - 30 April 2026 €500k per annum)
30 April 2027 - €762k

2017 has an eye-watering payment chunk of €4.2m - how that is going to be paid remains to be seen.    Part of Munster's plan for reducing the debt includes marquee games such as the Maori test, games in US, brand leverage through merchandising, stadium naming rights, and events such as the sale of season/debenture tickets in 2017.      

However, clearly performances on the pitch are critical to their revenue streams, so getting into the top-tier cup at the expense of another Welsh or Scottish was essential this season.  And Munster need to continue that trend.   The club received an extra €1m from the IRFU this season - as did the other three provinces - to assist with their increasing costs, particularly in securing and/or attracting existing/new players.   The appointment of Erasmus won't have come cheaply either.

Munster said at their AGM last year that they'd incurred a €400k loss, down from €600k the previous year. Increased attendances at Independent Park helped somewhat on that reduction.   This season's poor performances in PRO12 and Euro comps won't have helped matters.

On the subject of matches against test sides/visiting sides, Garret Fitzgerald, Munster CEO,  had this to say:  "“The IRFU won’t allow them because they say they’re injuring the sales of their tickets for the autumn internationals.  We make a request every two years to bring teams to Thomond Park and they turn us down religiously. A huge part of the Union funding comes from international games and they have to protect that. If we have an attractive fixture here, no one will travel. If we had one of those games every two years, you could clear around half a million.”   So that would bear out the earlier comment of €500k that someone made.

Cheers, Pot.

€2.3m loss this season, mind you. This doesn't look good:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/irfu-chief-warns-there-will-be-no-more-munster-bailouts-399288.html

"We’ve worked with Munster in relation to that. Munster are going to have to work with the IRFU to ensure the situation doesn’t arise again, and that’s going to require good financial planning, good budgeting and making sure that you live within your budget,” Browne said.

“The bottom line is, the IRFU cannot consistently be the bank of the last resort because we simply don’t have the resources to do that.”

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:25 am

Sin é wrote:

10 year ticket sales will be up then. As far as I can recall, the last sale brought in €9m.

Mind you, I don't get all this panic about Munster's 9.6m debt. They have managed to raise 35m already. Only an Irish Province would be expected to pay back its parent (IRFU). Every other sporting organisation would expect a grant.



How can it be its parent if, as Martyn claims, the assets are owned by the branch and not the parent? Unless the parent owns the branch, of course.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:26 am

Sin é wrote:Phil must be really peed off that the Irish Gov. put 190m into the 400K Aviva Stadium with the IRFU being debt free as soon as it was built!  Very Happy  


It's ok, our own Assembly gave the WRU £1.7m towards a pitch but cannot produce any minutes of the meetings held to discuss that 'investment'.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:27 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
And all you have to do is click on your name! Bit of a hypocrite as well aren't you!

I clicked on my name. Couldn't find what you were on about. Unsurprisingly.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:32 am

And a liar. Ok.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:36 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:And a liar. Ok.

Clicked my name. Got some stats about posts, points and join date.

Couldn't, unsurprisingly, see what you were referring to. Unsurprisingly.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:43 am

Shame you have to run away and 'forget' and lie. You don't need to you know. It's not a bad thing to own up and move on.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Shame you have to run away and 'forget' and lie. You don't need to you know. It's not a bad thing to own up and move on.

Oh dear. What a silly post.

All you have to do is provide one link.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:00 am

It's ok Phil, we couldn't think any less of you.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:01 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's ok Phil, we couldn't think any less of you.

That's good to know. You do seem rattled, almost as though because you've made a claim you cannot support.


PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:13 am

Ha, no you ran away as seems your MO, and now pretend. Why should I be afraid of the Welsh clubs joining the prem? Simple question.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:15 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha, no you ran away as seems your MO, and now pretend. Why should I be afraid of the Welsh clubs joining the prem? Simple question.

I'm here now.

I can understand why Irish rugby followers would be scared of it. Are you an Irish rugby follower?

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:21 am

Nope. Why would anyone be afraid of it though, and me in particular?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nope. Why would anyone be afraid of it though, and me in particular?

The Irish would as it would leave them without opposition to play. If you're not a follower of Irish rugby then that doesn't apply to you.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:31 am

Ah, so you made a mistake. See as easy as that, no need to be difficult.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:33 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah, so you made a mistake. See as easy as that, no need to be difficult.

It's difficult to know what mistake was made as you're unable to provide, unsurprisingly, the reference point.


PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:35 am

When you said I should be afraid of the Welsh joining the English league simply because I said it was extremely unlikely to happen as there'd be nothing in it for the English. Keep up Phil, we're moving on now.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by profitius on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:37 am

.

“The bottom line is, the IRFU cannot consistently be the bank of the last resort because we simply don’t have the resources to do that.”


And yet last year they gave the FAI a €30m interest free loan.

profitius

Posts : 3510
Join date : 2012-01-25

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:41 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:When you said I should be afraid of the Welsh joining the English league simply because I said it was extremely unlikely to happen as there'd be nothing in it for the English. Keep up Phil, we're moving on now.

Link?

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:43 am

profitius wrote:
.

“The bottom line is, the IRFU cannot consistently be the bank of the last resort because we simply don’t have the resources to do that.”


And yet last year they gave the FAI a €30m interest free loan.

I've missed that. Where's that noted?

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:46 am

PhillBB dragging the forum down again. Rolling Eyes

What happened to the times where we used to talk about rugby on this forum ?

Why are we always getting dragged down into finances and politics ? 

This thread was about the lack of interest in the new CC cups. Now we are talking about Munsters debt. FFS who cares about another teams debt ?

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:FFS who cares about another teams debt ?

Anybody interested in the strength of the teams their club plays.

Feel free to start another thread or to not get involved in this one if the topic is of no interest to you. It seems to be of interest to enough people to keep this thread chugging along, however, so maybe you're out of touch here.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:48 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Actually Phil you seem to be the one with the problem, players investing their own money isn't anything to do with private investment in rugby. Two separate issues

Educating you is bloody painful.

Private investment in rugby can come in many forms. In Ireland, traditionally, it has come from gifts (such as training facilities) to setting up players with business interests IN IRELAND outside of the game.

Is it joining up in your brain yet?

I...AM...AWARE...OF..THIS...

You though are trying to force the pieces together, Heaslips investment in the restaurant predates the IRFU moving to that model is that registering with you?

The restaurant was launched in 2012, his image rights and investments were only negotiated in 2014, is that simple enough for you?

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:50 am

marty2086 wrote:
You though are trying to force the pieces together, Heaslips investment in the restaurant predates the IRFU moving to that model is that registering with you?

The restaurant was launched in 2012, his image rights and investments were only negotiated in 2014, is that simple enough for you?

Bloody hell, not it does NOT predate 'that model'.

That model has been in rugby since before Peter Winterbottom went from being a farmer to being a stockbroker when he moved to Harlequins.

FFS.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:54 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
You though are trying to force the pieces together, Heaslips investment in the restaurant predates the IRFU moving to that model is that registering with you?

The restaurant was launched in 2012, his image rights and investments were only negotiated in 2014, is that simple enough for you?

Bloody hell, not it does NOT predate 'that model'.

That model has been in rugby since before Peter Winterbottom went from being a farmer to being a stockbroker when he moved to Harlequins.

FFS.

picard

The words thick as champ seem to be coming to mind right now

Are the IRFU Harlequins? I was talking about the IRFU so why would what others were doing matter?

Are you that dumb or just trying to obfuscate to hide your lack of backup on this?

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:55 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:When you said I should be afraid of the Welsh joining the English league simply because I said it was extremely unlikely to happen as there'd be nothing in it for the English. Keep up Phil, we're moving on now.

Link?

Like I said just look back into your comments. No need to rehash now you've admitted you made a mistake.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 10502
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by PhilBB on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:58 am

marty2086 wrote:

The words thick as champ seem to be coming to mind right now

Are the IRFU Harlequins? I was talking about the IRFU so why would what others were doing matter?

Are you that dumb or just trying to obfuscate to hide your lack of backup on this?

You really have zero ability to think laterally, do you?

Let's see if this sinks in: Heaslip's latest deal is NOTHING NEW IN RUGBY.

Clubs were getting players jobs in the amateur era, entering into business ventures with players years before 1995.

Your lack of exposure is hilarious. You're like a puppy who isn't house trained.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Wed 18 May 2016, 10:06 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

The words thick as champ seem to be coming to mind right now

Are the IRFU Harlequins? I was talking about the IRFU so why would what others were doing matter?

Are you that dumb or just trying to obfuscate to hide your lack of backup on this?

You really have zero ability to think laterally, do you?

Let's see if this sinks in: Heaslip's latest deal is NOTHING NEW IN RUGBY.

Clubs were getting players jobs in the amateur era, entering into business ventures with players years before 1995.

Your lack of exposure is hilarious. You're like a puppy who isn't house trained.

OMG!

You claimed or at least hinted at Heaslips investment in the restaurant was proof of private investment in Irish rugby and now you are taling about rugby

You really are pathetic, you were wrong now once again refuse to admit it

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 18 May 2016, 10:26 am

marty2086 wrote:You really are pathetic, you were wrong now once again refuse to admit it

That's PhilBB for you. Rolling Eyes

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Wed 18 May 2016, 10:38 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:You really are pathetic, you were wrong now once again refuse to admit it

That's PhilBB for you. Rolling Eyes

It is baffling, he has went way off on a tangent to try and make out like hes right and when initially asked for proof he claimed the articles are there if I Googled them yet they don't appear in a google search

But its everyone else is wrong and stupid Erm

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 18 May 2016, 10:49 am

You should take a look at the Merthyr Tydfil thread.He is of the opinion that there is nothing to sustain pro rugby in the Welsh valleys even though the owner of his beloved Blues made all his money from a business based in the Cearphilly valleys. 

Go figure. Rolling Eyes

LordDowlais

Posts : 10134
Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 39
Location : Merthyr Tydfil

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Wed 18 May 2016, 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:You should take a look at the Merthyr Tydfil thread.He is of the opinion that there is nothing to sustain pro rugby in the Welsh valleys even though the owner of his beloved Blues made all his money from a business based in the Cearphilly valleys. 

Go figure. Rolling Eyes

Were the Warriors not a Valleys side though that failed more because of mismanagement by the owner?

Which is funny because Phil says Ireland needs to move away from Union run teams to private ownership Rolling Eyes

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:16 pm

Leaving aside the sniping and bitching though, the point is that private investment is likely to be required in the business of rugby in the future - in Ireland certainly. 

And I'm not talking about a sponsorship deal with an individual player. Image rights etc are part and parcel of many sports but are largely aimed at improving bank balances of players, not the clubs they play for. If it got linked to wider merchandising for the club then it could be of benefit.  

Investment in the form of shareholding in the provincial branches is the likely next major step.  Which would likely require their status as IRFU branches to change to enable this.  And possible separation of activities that might not be deemed central to the business of a rugby club eg schools, etc.  Although control of player development pathways might be useful.  

If private investment allowed the Union to put more resources and time into the club structure, then this might be a devil's pact worth making.   There's an interesting article on the role that clubs have played in discovering/nurturing talent of recent players who might otherwise have been lost from the game when not making the initial cut at academy level. The argument goes that Irish players often develop later than international counterparts and having a strong, well-resourced club tier in the AIL is essential to keep developing these players. The B&I Cup in current set-up is seen as a complete waste of time and the sooner it's dispensed with the better.   This would link in with Martin Anayi's reported comments from his discussions with Pro12 Chiefs that an alternative academy competition to replace the Anglo-Welsh Cup with an Ireland & GB comp during international Windows may be attractive to all.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4631
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:26 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:You really are pathetic, you were wrong now once again refuse to admit it

That's PhilBB for you. Rolling Eyes

It is baffling, he has went way off on a tangent to try and make out like hes right and when initially asked for proof he claimed the articles are there if I Googled them yet they don't appear in a google search

But its everyone else is wrong and stupid Erm
I think one of the links referred to is a recent interview with Niall Woods, the rugby agent, that I referenced earlier in this thread. Worthwhile reading for his views on player costs and future financing of the game in relation to supporting this.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4631
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by marty2086 on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:32 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:You really are pathetic, you were wrong now once again refuse to admit it

That's PhilBB for you. Rolling Eyes

It is baffling, he has went way off on a tangent to try and make out like hes right and when initially asked for proof he claimed the articles are there if I Googled them yet they don't appear in a google search

But its everyone else is wrong and stupid Erm
I think one of the links referred to is a recent interview with Niall Woods, the rugby agent, that I referenced earlier in this thread. Worthwhile reading for his views on player costs and future financing of the game in relation to supporting this.

Don't suppose you'd have the link handy?

marty2086

Posts : 4837
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Sin é on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:41 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
I would think it will go a long way to clearing their debt. The big problem for them has been the falling attendances. So I'm sure that will be their focus. Munster will be fine.

If you think it will go a long way to clearing their debt please could you a) quantify that debt and b) tell me what you think this game will generate.

Thanks.
2017 has an eye-watering payment chunk of €4.2m - how that is going to be paid remains to be seen.    Part of Munster's plan for reducing the debt includes marquee games such as the Maori test, games in US, brand leverage through merchandising, stadium naming rights, and events such as the sale of season/debenture tickets in 2017.      

10 year ticket sales will be up then. As far as I can recall, the last sale brought in €9m.

Mind you, I don't get all this panic about Munster's 9.6m debt. They have managed to raise 35m already. Only an Irish Province would be expected to pay back its parent (IRFU). Every other sporting organisation would expect a grant.

They have managed to raise €35m already?   For what?  From what?  Is this linked to the additional €34m loan Munster received from IRFU as reported in the Union's 2014 annual accounts?

You were close enough on the 10-year ticket sales.  Initial offer of 1500 tickets at €5,500 each was sold out and they added another 250 tickets in the offer round. Total sales came to €9.625m.  That means new tickets will operate from 2018.   Wonder what they hope for in sales this time and what price will they set them at?  It covered 4 league games and 3 European pool games the last time round.  

Leinster and RDS already have their planning permission sorted and work is due to get underway this year to expand RDS Arena to 25,000 at a cost of €20m.

Now it's Connacht's turn....

Munster raised all the money bar 15m (which they borrowed from the IRFU) through sale of 10 year tickets, own resources, Limerick City grant, Shannon Development grant, etc. etc. JP McManus also seems to have made a big contribution. He was certainly very prominent at the opening ceremony (along with Padraig Harrington). Don't forget that in 2006 Munster was the biggest club brand in the world, selling 80,000 jerseys in 2006. Most recent reports say they are still the top selling rugby jersey in UK & Ireland (didn't give figures for elsewhere).

The 34m loan was to New Stadium Ltd which is the Aviva which effectively was bailing out the FAI for their share of the Aviva. Note the much better terms and conditions they got. It seems that the IRFU have now bought out some of the FAI interest in the stadium which is really a head scratcher because the Aviva's last published accounts had losses of close to 3m. Only reason I can think that they might do that is because they don't like sharing the Aviva with FAI.

If the IRFU can come up with that kind of money to buy out a loss making stadium, they sure as hell can donate 10m to the redevelopment of Thomond Park.

As for next sale of 10 year seats - I'd imagine that is why Munster were allowed the Maori game - to build up interest in Munster again. The tickets are really cheap and they are going to get the kids in there (5 adults, 20 kids - Euro 100). Good marketing.

Sin é

Posts : 12554
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Allty on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:46 pm

This PhillBB ruins threads on every site he posts on. What a sad boring person he is.

Dont feed the troll guys

Allty

Posts : 547
Join date : 2013-02-19

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by profitius on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:
.

“The bottom line is, the IRFU cannot consistently be the bank of the last resort because we simply don’t have the resources to do that.”


And yet last year they gave the FAI a €30m interest free loan.

I've missed that. Where's that noted?


Its been well reported over the last year. Its probably on their annual report somewhere.

profitius

Posts : 3510
Join date : 2012-01-25

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Sin é on Wed 18 May 2016, 1:10 pm

PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:
.

“The bottom line is, the IRFU cannot consistently be the bank of the last resort because we simply don’t have the resources to do that.”


And yet last year they gave the FAI a €30m interest free loan.

I've missed that. Where's that noted?

IRFU Annual Report.

New Stadium Ltd is the Aviva Stadium which is co-owned by IRFU & FAI.

https://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/16/53/77/41/screen10.png

Sin é

Posts : 12554
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

Re: European rugby, the interest just isn't there

Post by Sponsored content Today at 4:06 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 19 of 20 Previous  1 ... 11 ... 18, 19, 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum