Aviva Premiership - Round 21

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Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 12:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table





Fixtures

Fri 29th Apr 16

19:45 Sale Sharks  v   Gloucester Rugby BT Sport
Sharks play-off hopes are now out of their own hands, however they are in prime position to secure a Champions Cup spot. They should have the arsenal needed to overcome an underwhelming and injury ridden Gloucester team. As often much will rest on the performance of Danny Cipriani. Having failed to get his drunk driving case thrown out, he has been bailed again until 26th May. This means that unlike last week he will have had a full week of training behind him.


Sat 30th Apr 16

15:00 Leicester Tigers  v  Worcester Warriors
Tigers need to win this game to guarantee 4th spot and a probable visit to Barnet in Mid-May. After a sequence of massive games with minimal rotation, they also need to rest some players. Could Worcester provide the banana skin that is needed to give hopes to Tiger's chasers. Yes they can, attimes they have been enterprising and effective this season, but really they should be beaten with "relative" ease.

15:15 Northampton Saints  v  Bath Rugby BT Sport
Saints hopes of making the play-offs are hanging by a thread that will be cut should Leicester beat Worcester. Bath meanwhile have only a mathematical chance of making the Champions Cup. Despite a seriously misfiring back division, Saints should have too much for a rudderless Bath XV.


Sun 1st May 16

13:00 Exeter Chiefs  v   Wasps BT Sport
Exeter will seek revenge for their Champions cup defeat to Wasps and overtake the visitors in the fight for the second home semi final and what should be 4th meeting between these two teams this season. Wasps will be smarting over their defeat at Sarries hands at the weekend and looking to put in a massive performance. Game of the round and too hard to call.

15:00 London Irish  v   Harlequins
London Irish are not down yet, but need to win this game to have any chance of survival. Quins can still sneak into the Top 6, but may well feel that the Challenge Cup gives them a chance of both silverware and the Champions cup for next season. It will take a huge improvement for LI to win this game, yet for some reason I think they will.

15:15 Saracens v  Newcastle Falcons BT Sport
If Newcastle win this game they are safe. There is a good chance that Sarries may choose to rest a large number of players, so the visitors should not be discounted.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:21 pm

Can't blame Barnes really but I don't understand how he decided that was forward from what he saw.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by king_carlos on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:24 pm

Now Barnes isn't pinging him for not straight have Saints got he upper hand in the scrum?

Given the two front rows you'd expect them to really. On this seasons form I'd expect Waller to get the upper hand on Davey Wilson.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:25 pm

Scottrf wrote:Can't blame Barnes really but I don't understand how he decided that was forward from what he saw.

He didn't see anything, it was the TMO who called it. He could not see the ball release as HMs hands were masked by a player, but thought they were pointing forward.

North caught it level with Mallinder, so how could it be forward?

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by king_carlos on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:28 pm

Will Evans once again showing what technique can do by hitting Leleimalafaga low and hard then using his leg drive to knock all 130kg of him backwards.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by sad_gimp on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:31 pm

Kinda feel like everyone just wants the season over. Awful rugby on display again, complete lack of ball handling skills.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by sad_gimp on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:33 pm

Deary me this is pathetic. Saints v Bath is a horror show :/

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by king_carlos on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:35 pm

Tigers profiting from scrum inconsistencies now.

Warriors with a scrum on their 5 metre get the ball back to their 8 and are driving Tigers back, Garner calls 'use it' but Warriors keep driving till things disintegrate. Garner resets the scrum (still Warriors ball) and this time Tigers drive Worcs back and Garner penalises them.

And Tigers put the ball in the corner and score from the ensuing line-out/maul. Tigers have been on top this half and you felt the try was coming but that's a poor way for it to happen. Gives Tigers the TBP and could kill of the game which would be a shame for Worcs given they have looked good.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by sad_gimp on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:48 pm

Try for Harrison, deserves it, best player on the pitch by a country mile.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:54 pm

Yeah, hes not doing his chances of a trip to Australia any harm is he....

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by king_carlos on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:55 pm

FT: Tigers 31 - 17 Worcs

By no means a perfect performance from Tigers but with a few changes/rested players, inconsistent weather and a tough Warriors side putting in a good performance I'll take that any day.

It was also a fun final home game of the season from a Leicester perspective with some really good rugby played. Veainu's try was fantastic and I must say that I'm going to miss watching Betham/Goneva/Veainu playing off each other next season. They all like to play the game a similar way and when it clicks you really see the enjoyment that those guys get from the game shining through.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 4:58 pm

How was that a penalty, Mallinder released the ball. It was two other players both on their feet struggling for it

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 5:20 pm

Doesn't even feel like a game of two halves. To come out of that first half 14-0 down was shocking.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 5:25 pm

squeaky does it.

How Barnes can be called one of the best refs in the world is beyond me. When Haywood scored, Louw had become detached, comes straight in from the Saints side and starts pulling some ones leg collapse the maul, two penalty offences and Barnes was watching him do it.

Poor performance from both sides, glad we squeaked the win, but the worse side on there today were the officials

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 6:32 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:squeaky does it.

How Barnes can be called one of the best refs in the world is beyond me. When Haywood scored, Louw had become detached, comes straight in from the Saints side and starts pulling some ones leg collapse the maul, two penalty offences and Barnes was watching him do it.

Poor performance from both sides, glad we squeaked the win, but the worse side on there today were the officials

I thought Barnes did well as he was reffing two sets of players that would rather argue with him than listen to him. The scrums were a farce with the stupid early pushes. The only criticism I have of Barnes is that he didn't pick a victim from each side and bin them to send a message about pushing early.

He had his arm out for advantage when Haywood dived over. Good reffing, if he'd blown early then Saints would have reset the line out and maybe knocked on like they did for the other 80 minutes.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 6:54 pm

king_carlos wrote:FT: Tigers 31 - 17 Worcs

By no means a perfect performance from Tigers but with a few changes/rested players, inconsistent weather and a tough Warriors side putting in a good performance I'll take that any day.

It was also a fun final home game of the season from a Leicester perspective with some really good rugby played. Veainu's try was fantastic and I must say that I'm going to miss watching Betham/Goneva/Veainu playing off each other next season. They all like to play the game a similar way and when it clicks you really see the enjoyment that those guys get from the game shining through.

It was a weird game, Mauger's description of flat accurately described the performance and the crowd. The hail and snow that fell for the first 20 minutes of second half did not help matters. Evans was excellent in his 40 minutes, while Genge looked a really destructive player.

Pennell had a shocker.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 6:55 pm

Oh and I thought Owen Williams was very average except for immaculate place kicking.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by king_carlos on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 7:12 pm

Pennell had an uncharacteristically poor game. The pass for the interception was terrible then his kick too long also poor if a bit unlucky.

Evans looks a cracker. It's so enjoyable watching players like him who aren't the usual behemoths but have brilliant technique and read the game well. His support line for his break, covering tackle a minute after coming on and strong hit on Leleimalefaga all brought a smile. The speed and balance with which he gets back to his feet after a tackle is outstanding.

Williams indifferent form will be a headache for next week. If he was playing better then ideally he wouldn't be risked for a game that will in all likelihood be to nothing. In his current form I'd start him and probably Youngs as well so that they can get some gametime/form together.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by yappysnap on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 8:05 pm

Watching the super rugby then watching what the Premiership serves up is all a bit depressing really.

Basic handling is Poopie, speed of the players to support is miserable, and the decision making by most players is just abject. Maybe it's me, maybe it's just felt like a long season but I can't wait for it to be over.


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 8:39 pm

yappysnap wrote:Watching the super rugby then watching what the Premiership serves up is all a bit depressing really.

Basic handling is Poopie, speed of the players to support is miserable, and the decision making by most players is just abject. Maybe it's me, maybe it's just felt like a long season but I can't wait for it to be over.


I watched a but if the Reds game earlier. Handling was worse than in Saints vs Bath, it was so bad it was actually unwatchable. Not all SH rugby is skillful.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 9:06 pm

And I bet they wasn't playing in snow, sleet and rain!

The comparisons get a bit depressing, in the NH we have great games and poor games. Just the same as down south.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by yappysnap on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 10:32 pm

Lots of sleet and rain in super rugby, mindset is different though and skill levels better

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by yappysnap on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 10:33 pm

True about the good and bad games, it just feels like this season has had a lot more bad then good for some reason.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Apr 2016, 11:52 pm

Certainly at the Gardens!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 01 May 2016, 10:46 am

With reference to excitment andvskills etc:

1) Perceptions on mindsets etc are surely skewed by the team you watch. Certainly at WR I have seen a brandvof rugby far more exciting than for many a year.

2) Skill levels are higher in Aus and NZ.

3) Playing conditions hugely favour running rugby.

4) Some of the handling yesterday did not live up to the ambition at WR. Some of the errors from the likes of Betham, Goneva, Hougaard and Breem would never happen with SH players Wink

5) I thought the skill levelsvin the 3rd quarter were remarkably high bearing in mnd the high wind, teeming rain, snow and hail and sudden 12 degree drop in temperature. Ibhave seen some very poor qualitybgames from Dunedin in the past.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by doctor_grey on Sun 01 May 2016, 12:04 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
15:15 Northampton Saints  v  Bath Rugby BT Sport
Saints hopes of making the play-offs are hanging by a thread that will be cut should Leicester beat Worcester. Bath meanwhile have only a mathematical chance of making the Champions Cup. Despite a seriously misfiring back division, Saints should have too much for a rudderless Bath XV.
Well, here we are at the bum end of the season, and Saints won't make the playoffs.  Seems weird.  
But this is the time to rampage.  Show the world what they are made of and have a full blooded rampage.  Let's see what might have been.....
Well I guess this didn't happen. Very frustrating match to take in. I haven't seen a home match where Saints appeared so distracted, listless, or simply not checked in like this in a long time. Bath was not so good, but Saints were fortunate. Good match for Harrison and happy for him. But overall not the way to send the fans home at the end of the season. Let's home we grind one last win to ensure we stay in the top Euro competition.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Scottrf on Sun 01 May 2016, 2:52 pm

One of the performances of the season by Exeter today.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Welly on Sun 01 May 2016, 2:53 pm

meh Wasps have been poor aswell though IMO.


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Scottrf on Sun 01 May 2016, 2:54 pm

Yeah but that haven't been allowed anything.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:06 pm

Sarries 3-14 Falcons Shocked

Fully deserved half time lead, it's been one way traffic with us camped in the Sarries half.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:18 pm

Come on lads keep this up

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Welly on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:24 pm

Falcons are really going to miss Hammersley once he moves to Tigers.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:39 pm

Ahem behave now Welly.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:41 pm

Jeez....we're getting bigger all today!!!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by sad_gimp on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:43 pm

nathan wrote:And I bet they wasn't playing in snow, sleet and rain!

The comparisons get a bit depressing, in the NH we have great games and poor games. Just the same as down south.

The difference in quality this season is as wide as I've ever known it. I don't watch the Pro 12 but the quality of rugby on display in the AP and European cups has been awful. The top Super Rugby teams would absolutely steamroll anyone in the NH at the moment.

Not a huge surprise given the continued dominance of the SH international teams, but it would be nice to see our club teams improving instead of going backwards.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 01 May 2016, 4:59 pm

Commiserations Irish.

I honestly think it'll do you some good and you'll come back much stronger.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Heaf on Sun 01 May 2016, 9:34 pm

Cheers Sgt Hug - fingers crossed.  I'm sure we'll lose some key players but the academy team won their league this year so hopefully this will be an opportunity to bring some of them on - I just hope we can keep hold of the likes of Williams.

And just to keep one tradition going ... I though JPD was a bit soft on Quins today - the amount of penalties they gave away in the red zone deserved more than one YC and several rolling mauls dropped almost on the try line could have been PTs (one even went about 30m before being dropped 1m from the line) ... having said that I think Sale and Saints were also a little unfortunate in their games too having mauls pulled down when it looked like they were going over.

On the plus side I've just received an email from LI telling me I can get some money back on my ST for next year so there's a silver lining.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by yappysnap on Sun 01 May 2016, 10:09 pm

I assume no tmo and a lower standard of reffing in the championship so be prepared there Heaf!

London Irish should do really well next season, tbh they've been far better since the turn of the year anyway, just left themselves too much to do by that point. Still you never know, Bedford may surprise everyone...

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by yappysnap on Sun 01 May 2016, 10:11 pm

Rowntree has a big job on his hands with Quins maul, and the work rate of the Quins pack at times. I have faith though he'll sort those out.

Highlights were the props, lambert owned Franks in their contest at the scrum and around the park Synkler was a beast, great hands and pace too.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Heaf on Sun 01 May 2016, 11:36 pm

yappysnap wrote:I assume no tmo and a lower standard of reffing in the championship so be prepared there Heaf!

London Irish should do really well next season, tbh they've been far better since the turn of the year anyway, just left themselves too much to do by that point. Still you never know, Bedford may surprise everyone...
yes indeed Smile

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 02 May 2016, 8:19 am

Well that 80 minutes yesterday pretty much summed up our season.

Defensive alignment completely all over the place for a 10 minute spell in which we got cut to ribbons and ended up 3-19 down. Heart and character shown to drag ourselves back into it. Nervousness at 22-22 and taking the ‘safe’ decision to take 3 points rather than kick to the corner where Quins had not legally stopped a maul all game. Then having nudged in front the nerves kick in immediately and we give away a soft penalty, then fall of a first up tackle to allow Sinckler to bag the winning try.

Very sad at the end seeing some of the players who looked absolutely devastated.

On the plus side, I can now get a season ticket for £160 next season, and we play Ealing, London Scottish, London Welsh and Richmond which are all away games I can get to around childcare logistics.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 02 May 2016, 8:31 am

There's some great venues to visit Ozz, Cornwall and Jersey being 2 I know a lot of our lads enjoyed.

A season of winning and getting the kids through will be like a breath of fresh air I imagine.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 02 May 2016, 8:58 am

Yeah, hopefully it’s a good opportunity for us. Let’s be honest, we have been on the decline for a few years now, and there are clearly things that need addressing. This should allow us to do that, and if done right should enable us to come back stronger than we are now.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 02 May 2016, 9:43 am

Without a doubt.

I wish we'd have done a bit more with the oppertunity to be honest. We largely stuck with the same squad didn't bring through many young lads.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 02 May 2016, 11:00 am

That's my hope, that we look to our youngsters, with a smattering of experience in there to steer them through. I think that is the clubs aim as all our recruitment has centred around players under the age of 28 year, and I heard yesterday that Guest and Fenby are off, both of whom are 30+, along with Aulika and probably Cowan, again both of whom are over 30.

If we can see the likes of Smallbone, Ellis, Brophy-Clews, Williams and Fowlie getting large amounts of game time (Smallbone and Williams have this year anyway) then I'll be happy.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by yappysnap on Mon 02 May 2016, 12:26 pm

I thought Brophy Clews was very good yesterday

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 02 May 2016, 12:30 pm

He's got lots of potential yappy, a year in the Championship could really make him. It's a crazy situation though with regard to our 10 jersey. This year it's been a key problem, with retirements and injuries which effectively forced us to blood Brophy-Clews. At the current moment in time we have 5 senior 10's signed for next season, Marshall, Bell, Tonks, Geraghty and Noakes, which could effectively push him down the pecking order. I suspect however that Geraghty and Noakes will be off. Tonks confirmed to a friend of mine yesterday that he will be with us next season, and I was told by someone from inside the club that Marshall is definitely coming. Will be interesting to see where TBC features amongst it all.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Welly on Mon 02 May 2016, 1:07 pm

Maybe try a backline of:
9) Steele
10) Brophy Clews
11) Lewington (fingers crossed he stays)
12) Marshall
13) Williams
14) Fowlie
15) Bell

Granted marshall has only played 12 the odd time but should be fine @ Championship level.

But would be very interesting to see.


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 02 May 2016, 1:14 pm

I suspect that if Tom Coventry stays, that Marshall will be first choice 10. backed up by TBC and Tonks. We've also got Andy Symons coming from Worcester who plays 10, 12 and 13 so there are lots of options.

15. Bell
14. Lewington
13. Fowlie
12. Williams
11. Tikoroituma
10. Marshall
9. Steele

21. Murphy 22. Brophy-Clews 23. Cokanasiga

... is a backline that excites me, but until we know who is staying/going, it's difficult to predict what we're going to look like.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Welly on Mon 02 May 2016, 1:25 pm

Symons was really impressive V Leicester i thought very good hard runner.


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

Post by Ozzy3213 on Mon 02 May 2016, 1:48 pm

Yeah I heard he had a good game. It will be interesting to see how we go in the centres. I think Williams is nailed on at 12, and the rest are covering him when he needs a rest and fighting it out for the 13 jersey. Most Irish fans had high hopes for Tom Fowlie at the end of last season, but he has spectacularly failed to kick on this year and appears to not be trusted by TC. Hearn started well but went off the boil and Mulchrone is limited but generally doesn't do a great deal wrong. Symons could get first stab at the 13 jersey is the reality.

That said, we have a kid in the under 18's, Matt Williams who is the England U18 outside centre and looks as good if not a better prospect than Johnny Williams. He should get a senior academy contract this season and hopefully will be knocking on the door to get some 1st team game time.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 21

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