Madrid Masters 2016

First topic message reminder :

I'll update with the men's draw when it's out on Saturday, but the main news so far is who's in it - Djokovic is back after skipping this event for a few years and Federer has also decided to add the event to his previously bare schedule.

The women's main draw also starts Saturday, but without Serena who's played 3 events since last year's US Open. Some interesting opportunities at the top of the women's game coming up with Serena's defence of her French and Wimbledon titles looking shaky.

Men's Draw:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/1536/mds.pdf

Projected Quarter Finals
Djokovic-Tsonga
Wawrinka-Nishikori
Federer-Nadal
Murray-Berdych

Born Slippy wrote:Devastatingly poor last game from Rafa. Didn't give Andy a chance to think about throwing the previous game away.

Well put.

Nadal still not half the player he used to be.

The last set was quite funny, a bit tragic, but still quite amusing.
I felt both players were below their best actually. Murray's serve randomly went from terrible to ridiculous. Nadal's serve was terrible as usual, and he was poor on smashes which his normally a good point for him.
Odd match.

Great win for Andy, Rafa still a danger on ATP250 clay for sure.

Djoko loses tomorrow.

Fed to win Rome

Great result for Murray. A bit of a grind at times with (IMO) neither playing their best, but Murray played the clutch points so much better. Nadal was just way too passive on the BPs he earned on Murray's serve, although Murray did find big first serves more often than not to be fair. Murray in contrast was nice and aggressive on the big points, epitomised by his huge FH return winner to take the first set.

Bit of a poor game from Murray when serving for it in set 2, guilty of going for a bit too much too early in the points at times, but re-focussed well, albeit with plenty of help from Nadal in that last game.

That overhead though, he must have hit five or six in the match and put none away (for clean winners at least).

Still, a very good result, and continues to show just how big a threat he's become on clay.

2 wins and a semi is a fantastic return for a player who has been permanently written off the last 2 years buy his haters. One bad game isn't wirth dwelling on. The outlook for RG is great this year

temporary21 wrote:2 wins and a semi is a fantastic return for a player who has been permanently written off the last 2 years buy his haters. One bad game isn't wirth dwelling on. The outlook for RG is great this year

Nail on the head.

temporary21 wrote:2 wins and a semi is a fantastic return for a player who has been permanently written off the last 2 years buy his haters. One bad game isn't wirth dwelling on. The outlook for RG is great this year

Nonsense, it is objective sense to judge Nadal as diminished. Calling intelligent posters 'haters' for stating the obvious isn't very.... well....... moderate. Or sensible.

Yes, it sort of depends how you view it. He's still number 2 or 3 on clay but he's nowhere near Novak - which is all that really matters.

Very below par Rafa given the matches he has been playing..well done Andy but I think I know where the trophy will be going

More importantly hes a lot closer than last year, i.e not in permanent decline. We cant constantly look at players and go "theyre not Novak so its not good". EVERY player sucks if we have that viewpoint

bogbrush wrote:

temporary21 wrote:2 wins and a semi is a fantastic return for a player who has been permanently written off the last 2 years buy his haters. One bad game isn't wirth dwelling on. The outlook for RG is great this year

Nonsense, it is objective sense to judge Nadal as diminished. Calling intelligent posters 'haters' for stating the obvious isn't very.... well....... moderate. Or sensible.

Not if you read the first sentence and this is spot on. He has been written off in recent year or two but now he has just won a couple of clay tournaments (one a Masters) back-to-back and reached the semi here. Sure he is not right back to his best but aside from Novak then who else can you see stopping him at RG? Point taken about haters though. In the context of where he was Rafa is totally in a far better place right now.

bogbrush wrote:

temporary21 wrote:2 wins and a semi is a fantastic return for a player who has been permanently written off the last 2 years buy his haters. One bad game isn't wirth dwelling on. The outlook for RG is great this year

Nonsense, it is objective sense to judge Nadal as diminished. Calling intelligent posters 'haters' for stating the obvious isn't very.... well....... moderate. Or sensible.

To be fair, Nadal has definitely been better on clay this year than he was last year. In MC he had a very good win over Murray, and followed it up by winning Barcelona, so much better results than last year for sure. Madrid has never been his best tournament, but he hasn't been great this week. The real test of where he's at might come if and when he meets Djokovic, but on current form the latter's surely a big favourite.

Beating Nadal is easier for Murray, than it is Djokovic.

Good win against a Nadal on his comeback trail.

Go Cibulkova!

Can this be explained by "weak era theories"? Apart from Djokovic who still looks good, Federer, Nadal and even perhaps Murray (as per Lydian's discussion thread) look well off their younger prime days - yet still they are in the top five with the younger players nowhere to be seen.

I didnt call any intelligent posters haters. He gets a lot of crap in YouTube and fb comments, those people are dearth...

Basically all the top three are diminished from what they were... Thers no objectiveness to it, it all depends on when you start measuring and how you wanna spin things.

Nore Staat wrote:Can this be explained by "weak era theories"?  Apart from Djokovic who still looks good, Federer, Nadal and even perhaps Murray (as per Lydian's discussion thread) look well off their younger prime days - yet still they are in the top five with the younger players nowhere to be seen.

Experience counts for a LOT at the moment

laverfan wrote:Beating Nadal is easier for Murray, than it is Djokovic.

Good win against a Nadal on his comeback trail.

Go Cibulkova!

13 sets in a row suggests otherwise...

Born Slippy wrote:13 sets in a row suggests otherwise...

Who has 13 sets in a row against whom?

Djokovic over Nadal?

Ah, I now get what you meant. Ignore me - carry on!

Djokovic over most I expect

Thiem on for the wooden spoon this week. Been a couple of funny ones this year!

Haddie-nuff wrote:What happened to his fh down the line yesterday ??... non existent
And he hardly came inside the baseline.. that again bothers me
I was not as impressed as you socal maybe Im "complaining"

There is a difference between criticizing, complaining, and then constant and relentless harping like the Chinese water torture; you know that Haddie. Difference of degree matters.

temporary21 wrote:I didnt call any intelligent posters haters. He gets a lot of crap in YouTube and fb comments, those people are dearth...

Basically all the top three are diminished from what they were... Thers no objectiveness to it, it all depends on when you start measuring and how you wanna spin things.

No way Djokovic is diminished from his best, he is right at it right now, his best level I mean. Novak is frankly better since 2015 than he was in 2011. Of course the 29 is old and broken down crowd will have difficulty with that fact but there it is a player who has improved since his early and even mid 20s, in his late 20s. I mean when Roger was the same age in 2009 every single loss to the younger guys was because he was a broken down 28 or 29. Stop challenging the party line it will get you a third class rail ticket to Siberia.

Both players played worse than in MC, but Nadal dipped more than Murray, so Murray won.  Nadal was still better than most of last year, but not by all that much - he played far better in MC.

Also, is it just me or is Nadal missing way more overheads this season?  It used to feel like he would go years without missing one, and now it seems like he misses at least one every match he plays - he missed two today.

Unless Novak's level drops significantly from where it has been the last year or so, Murray and Nadal playing like thay did today will be happy if they avoid bagels and breadsticks from him.

socal1976 wrote:No way Djokovic is diminished from his best

My bet is that temp meant "the three other than Novak" - i.e., Fed/Rafa/Andy.

Nadal had zero chance against Djokovic for the final so might aswell give Murray the option to try.

Obviously Kei won't get close to winning tonight

Some media reports are saying this was Murray winning the match with aggressive tennis rather than Nadal losing the match or having a "poor match".

Nore Staat wrote:Some media reports are saying this was Murray winning the match with aggressive tennis rather than Nadal losing the match or having a "poor match".

Well as we know the media put their own slant on a match.. in the eye of the beholder.!!!
I'm not saying Rafa lost nor am I saying Andy won.. but Ive seen Rafa play better this year and I think he should have taken a set at least.
However, we will see just how good Andy is tomorrow

I don't think it is rocket science to say that neither player was at their best today. Rafa missed shots you don't expect (going by recent form) and Andy's first serve was way off. Andy won because he kept his focus better at key times compared to Rafa. That is how I saw it.

Okay thanks.  I never saw the match but retain an interest in how the players are doing

Nore Staat wrote:Some media reports are saying this was Murray winning the match with aggressive tennis rather than Nadal losing the match or having a "poor match".

Andy was impressive - bar an awful first serve percentage for most of the match. Should have beaten Rafa in MC as well (the big difference today was that he managed to maintain his level throughout) so he's in decent shape.

He is unlikely to beat Novak here but the main focus for him is to be tiptop for Wimbledon - where I'd expect him to be a real threat to Novak with the obvious further improvements in his game - serve particularly.

Andy played better in Monte Carlo V Rafa and lost but mentally he was much better today as he overcame adversity such as losing his serve by breaking back immediately. No growling at his box and no real mental dips unlike at Monte Carlo.

Andy didn't reach the heights of the impeccable first set against Rafa in MC, but he maintained the intensity and mental focus way better today. He also hit his second serve very well. Unusually aggressive and confident with it.

Madrid is unique conditions though, and I'd still back Rafa in the RG conditions should they meet. But it's a step forward for Andy. When he maintains intensity and positivity it makes such a difference. If only he could do it consistently in the big matches.

are you f*cking kidding me! that point! Thats as genius as anything anynes come up with

Kei has played a decent match here but is getting comfortably routined. Novak's level is just astounding.

I just wonder, out of sheer curiosity, if anyone at all saw the Simon match, and has considered some rope a dope tactics, give the ball some air and dont put much angle on it.

Even just a tiny bit, because this all out attack isnt doing anything

What round did Novak go out in MC again? Its such a distant memory...

Plays like this, hes the RG champ this year, I feel it in my under calcified bones. this is the year... im like an Arsenal fan.

Oh... well where did that come from?

Come on Ninja, chop him.

Maybe Andy can tomorrow

And that was all she wrote. The Djokovic Juggernaut continues steamrollering all before it.

A minor crisis for all of ten minutes... choo choo

Kei was quite good at the start of the 1st set and the end of 2nd set winning most rallies that had 5+ strokes, closer than it should have been for the Serb.

Think the final will go to final set here.

Interestingly Murray in the presser said he's been working on technique. Which fits what I have been saying about his footwork/court stance, etc. He's had glaringly obvious areas to work on and I'm glad to see his recognised that and the work is paying dividends...here's what he said:

"I spoke to a number of coaches who work with younger players to develop technique, just to understand different grips, different positions to stand on the court as well, the ideal spot to make contact with the serve. I spent a bit of time with Louis Cayer before Monte Carlo and watched a lot of videos. Sometimes you can get into bad habits over the years because when you become a professional you don't do as much technical work, it's more tactical and physical work."

lydian wrote:Interestingly Murray in the presser said he's been working on technique. Which fits what I have been saying about his footwork/court stance, etc. He's had glaringly obvious areas to work on and I'm glad to see his recognised that and the work is paying dividends...here's what he said:

"I spoke to a number of coaches who work with younger players to develop technique, just to understand different grips, different positions to stand on the court as well, the ideal spot to make contact with the serve. I spent a bit of time with Louis Cayer before Monte Carlo and watched a lot of videos. Sometimes you can get into bad habits over the years because when you become a professional you don't do as much technical work, it's more tactical and physical work."

I do agree that Murray has some issues with his FH, to be honest I usually watch a Murray match because of his opponent not that I have anything against him but I usually won't watch him unless there is a tasty opponent and I have never really spent the time you have looking at it. But he does seem to not position his feet correctly and seem to be falling away or late on way to many FHs. Still I think he played well.

Novak has been so impressive on serve lately, I mean one break in two sets against Nish and dropping serve for the first time in the tournament against arguably the third or fourth best returner on a clay court albeit a very quick clay court. His serve is better than Novak 2011 and Novak before that obviously.

I know the French is still to come but I think the way he has been playing he will continue to be favorite and should add to his wimbeldon haul. The net game and slice BH is no longer a weakness, he moves better than anyone, Djokovic can still return big servers even on grass. Additionally, the serve has just been one notch better in 2016 and 15 than it was in 2014. When he needs a big first serve he usually gets one with good bite and locates it remarkably despite the added pressure of a second serve.

Come on Andy, get this one for the Independent Scotland

Nice the WTA match has been dutifully fast forwarded and now the guys are warming up.

I love the way Murray has played this tourney but I think Novak is going to take this in three close sets.

Murray has to serve well.