Madrid Masters 2016

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Post by YvonneT on Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:26 am

First topic message reminder :

I'll update with the men's draw when it's out on Saturday, but the main news so far is who's in it - Djokovic is back after skipping this event for a few years and Federer has also decided to add the event to his previously bare schedule.

The women's main draw also starts Saturday, but without Serena who's played 3 events since last year's US Open. Some interesting opportunities at the top of the women's game coming up with Serena's defence of her French and Wimbledon titles looking shaky.

Men's Draw:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/1536/mds.pdf

Projected Quarter Finals
Djokovic-Tsonga
Wawrinka-Nishikori
Federer-Nadal
Murray-Berdych


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Post by Danny_1982 on Sun May 08, 2016 8:54 am

I think there's lots of positives for Andy. He changed his approach to the match up, trying to find Novak's backhand as much as possible with a mix of pace. His first and second serve were performing well, until the start of the third. And dispite the predictable mental dip to give the initiative to Novak in the third, it wasn't followed by letting him streak off. He made a fight of it.

I just wish he hadn't let his intensity drop at the start of the third. But as we know, that's always been Andy's problem apart from a couple of years with a certain coach renowned for his sustained mental intensity!

It was as close as Andy has got to him in a while, and that's got to be good. It's progress.

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Post by Jahu on Sun May 08, 2016 9:05 am

Second player losing to first player, is progress?

Is this 2008 and Andy is No4? Nice sugarcoating there Danny Wink
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Post by temporary21 on Sun May 08, 2016 9:07 am

Rafa has better pedigree. Much as that's sad to say as s fan of muzz first and Foremost. So he can still do it. Still no idea how it came to that though.

The frustration is that the games there. But he noticeably drops the ball when he gets close to s winning position. It's some he doesn't do much of agsinst anyone else either...

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Post by Guest on Sun May 08, 2016 9:26 am

Jahu wrote:Where is LK btw to watch his Andy boy? Again at in-laws mowing the grass? Laugh

That was yesterday Laugh

The missus want to see the new Cap America film. Haven't seen the match. It went 3 sets and by the comments least it was competitive. On to Rome and that peach of a draw Wink

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Post by Jahu on Sun May 08, 2016 9:27 am

Was good match, disappointing, but last 2 sets were good.

Enjoy the movie Smile
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Post by Guest on Sun May 08, 2016 9:31 am

The movie was ok. If that thing floats your boat, go see it Smile

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Post by temporary21 on Sun May 08, 2016 9:36 am

Its pretty good. Great fight scene in an airport, no idea what vision was doing the whole time though...

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Post by Danny_1982 on Sun May 08, 2016 9:49 am

Jahu wrote:Second player losing to first player, is progress?

Is this 2008 and Andy is No4? Nice sugarcoating there Danny Wink

I'm the last to sugar coat a Murray match. I'm a fan but not a fan boy. It was a very close match and Andy was in it up to the last point, and that has not been the case for many of their recent matches.

That's a step forward.

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Post by lydian on Sun May 08, 2016 10:01 am

As good as the match was this is probably Murray's best chance to beat any of the top 3-4 on clay given Madrid is much faster than MC/Rome/RG. I would expect Nadal or Djokovic to be much stronger favourites vs Murray in Rome and RG.
At the end of the day Djokovic does everything Murray does, but just that bit better and he has the ability to sustain a higher level of play for a longer period whereas Andy dips in and out more. Definitely progress for Andy though and technically he's definitely been working on a few areas as lived with Djokovic in many of the ralleys extremely well today (although again with caveat of lower, faster ball than other clay events...).
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Post by Danny_1982 on Sun May 08, 2016 10:18 am

Yep, I agree Lydian that this surface is an equaliser for someone like Murray as it's very unique clay court conditions. While Murray has improved hugely in this surface, he'd find it much harder to go shoulder to shoulder with Novak or Rafa on more traditional clay conditions.

Murray has changed the second serve. He alluded to technical changes with it the other day. I can't quite tell what's different yet, but he averaged an extra 14kph on his second serve this week. Faster than Novak's average. I'll be interested to see if he can maintain the improvement in Rome.

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Post by banbrotam on Sun May 08, 2016 10:31 am

[quote="Nore Staat"]
temporary21 wrote:He can't fire his coach - especially after the big brouhaha putting women's tennis coaches on the map and so forth.  Anyway Murray is nearing the end of his career turning 29 next week

He doesn't need to fire his coach. Forehand and now second serve is way better than it was under Lendl. Why can't you accept that Nole is simply unplayable when he brings his 'A' game, instead of consistently dissing Murray

And if Murray's at the end, goodness knows what Rafa, Roger and Stan are

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Post by banbrotam on Sun May 08, 2016 10:35 am

Jahu wrote:Second player losing to first player, is progress?

Is this 2008 and Andy is No4? Nice sugarcoating there Danny Wink


It's certainly not the disaster you and some others seem to think it is, with your total lack of perspective. If Murray was playing like 2008, he wouldn't be in the Top 3 right now

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Post by lydian on Sun May 08, 2016 10:37 am

Agree Danny the 2nd serve is looking much better. He said this during a Sky Sports post-Berdych match interview:

“It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and say just hit the serve harder but sometimes you need to make technical adjustments and have coaching on that. I had to make some changes to my serve and did a lot of learning and research myself, and have been coached well on it and feel much more comfortable going bigger on the second. There’s a lot more spin on it and I can control the second better which frees me up to go for more on my first as well, which is obviously a huge advantage for anyone. Every time I missed the first serve I was getting big bounces on the second serve and it’s difficult to control it in these conditions. It’s been a big improvement in my game and that will help me a lot on the faster courts as well coming into the grass-court season too.”

I'll try to have a look and see what's different but suspect he's changed the angle of his arm/racquet coming into the trophy position (so ball throwing arm and racquet arm are parallel to each other, its something Rafa used to do badly also)...this will give more spin and pace, and he's also probably pronating more on 2nd too to add even more pace. It certainly looks a smoother shot than before. But this is my conjecture on what might have changed...need to take a closer look as I say.
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Post by lydian on Sun May 08, 2016 10:38 am

It is progress Jahu because Djokovic's game is also progressing...none of these guys stand still with their games, they are constently working on making them better.
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Post by YvonneT on Sun May 08, 2016 10:46 am

Update on the points guaranteed after Rome which are used for French Open seeding. These include the 10 points for making the main draw (or more for those who've already won a match).

1Novak Djokovic 15560
2Andy Murray 7445
3Roger Federer 6935
4Stan Wawrinka 6030
5Rafael Nadal 5505
6Kei Nishikori 4120
7Jo Wilfried Tsonga 3365
8Tomas Berdych 2770
9Milos Raonic 2750
10 Richard Gasquet 2645
11Marin Cilic 2625 - NP
12David Ferrer 2570
13Gael Monfils 2470
14David Goffin 2435 - R2
15Dominic Thiem 2260
16Roberto Bautista Agut 1980
17John Isner 1965 - NP
18Gilles Simon 1945 - NP
19Kevin Anderson 1790 - R2
20Nick Kyrgios 1795

As has been said many times, Federer needs to reach the final to stay no.2 next week - or if Murray reaches the QF, he needs the title. Nadal needs a final to overtake Wawrinka. Ferrer may possibly be outside the top 12.


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Post by banbrotam on Sun May 08, 2016 10:47 am

It was interesting to see that when he had his head on, the second serve held up, ie looks like it will be fine in future pressure matches

Could make him the best on grass once again

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Post by Jahu on Sun May 08, 2016 10:52 am

lyd, if Andy was ranked 15 sure, but hes been the No2 for a while now.

I don't think he is at a Lendl coaching time level, maybe serve better and lately I'll admit he is behaving better, only slapped his racket on his palm once today.

Their game is still, its just how they apply it on the match, I don't buy this constant change and advancement of game from anyone, apart from Fed who had to modify it a little (the silly forward runs at the net on serve sometimes and shorter points) due to his age.

There is nothing Andy needs to change to play Djoko, or vice versa, they both know each others game, bar a few critical UEs from Andy today, he was not far from wining the match.

Sorry, can't see any progress anywhere from Andy, a few mph faster server, good FH today, wow is that news and hope for Andy fans? Not in 2016.

But fine, its clay, not his best surface, but still he won it last year and should of gone all or nothing against Djoko, he was passive, crap net play, silly UE's etc.



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Post by YvonneT on Sun May 08, 2016 11:18 am

Still, Andy has improved in Lydian's stats so that's some success for the week Smile

He could only meet one of the big 3 next week, and only if he reaches the final- but he could face Wawrinka if they both reach the SF. Would be interesting to see that - tough to call at the moment.

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Post by Jahu on Sun May 08, 2016 11:21 am

No worries from Stan, he is saving energy to crush Djoko on RG and kill his dreams again Laugh
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Post by lydian on Sun May 08, 2016 11:42 am

Well some of the progress is technical...that doesn't guarantee actual on court difference in results vs yesteryear. It comes down to the slams really...and the jury is out until we see RG and what he can do there. #2 ranking is likely the high watermark for Murray...all he can try to do is add more slams, maybe a WTF...but it's not been a bad innings so far. If he can combine power and variety then we may yet see him win more matches vs Novak who currently has his number. Murray is too predictable to Novak now...so why not use the variety more, nothing to lose. That would be progress too.
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Post by Born Slippy on Sun May 08, 2016 9:38 pm

HM Murdock wrote:Question: why does Andy drop to #3 if he has the same points as Fed?

http://live-tennis.eu/

This could be a victory with a price attached for Novak, as it means a SF against Andy at RG is on the cards.

Only if Fed reaches the final in Rome and Andy doesn't make the QF.

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Post by lydian on Sun May 08, 2016 9:46 pm

Andy has a good shout for #2 going into RG as Fed in same half as Djokovic and Nadal.
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Post by Born Slippy on Sun May 08, 2016 9:47 pm

banbrotam wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
temporary21 wrote:He can't fire his coach - especially after the big brouhaha putting women's tennis coaches on the map and so forth.  Anyway Murray is nearing the end of his career turning 29 next week

He doesn't need to fire his coach. Forehand and now second serve is way better than it was under Lendl. Why can't you accept that Nole is simply unplayable when he brings his 'A' game, instead of consistently dissing Murray

And if Murray's at the end, goodness knows what Rafa, Roger and Stan are

Rumours that Andy and Mauresmo are going to announce a split shortly. She's done a great job if so. Really pushed his game forwards. Just a bit annoying that the slight mental fragility in the really big moments is still there.

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Post by lags72 on Sun May 08, 2016 10:09 pm

Andy is undoubtedly a top level contender on clay these days ; and that was hardly the case in times past.

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Post by Born Slippy on Sun May 08, 2016 11:55 pm

It's also worth pointing out that, bar one win in Miami, Andy's wins over Novak have tended to come on the faster courts. Whilst Madrid is quick (for clay) it's highly encouraging that he is that close to Novak even on this surface. For all his improvements on clay, it's Wimbledon where he has most chance of overturning Novak when it really matters.

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Post by Born Slippy on Mon May 09, 2016 12:23 am

Born Slippy wrote:
banbrotam wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
temporary21 wrote:He can't fire his coach - especially after the big brouhaha putting women's tennis coaches on the map and so forth.  Anyway Murray is nearing the end of his career turning 29 next week

He doesn't need to fire his coach. Forehand and now second serve is way better than it was under Lendl. Why can't you accept that Nole is simply unplayable when he brings his 'A' game, instead of consistently dissing Murray

And if Murray's at the end, goodness knows what Rafa, Roger and Stan are

Rumours that Andy and Mauresmo are going to announce a split shortly. She's done a great job if so. Really pushed his game forwards. Just a bit annoying that the slight mental fragility in the really big moments is still there.

Now official...

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