Political round up.............

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 11 Feb 2016, 2:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Unions are like cops....Everyone hates them until they need one..

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 05 May 2016, 11:42 am

A lovely post that serves only to bait others into arguments with you.

Cut it out.

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Post by GSC on Thu 05 May 2016, 11:48 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I see Corbyn according to Yougov is more popular than all the other leaders...including Farage...

Personally I think he's a joke but then I thought Bernie was too.

Perhaps he'll surprise us all.

I like Corbyn and his principles, but I don't see him as a serious candidate to run the country.

Likewise I don't really like Cameron or Osbourne, but both have an air of competency that Corbyns missing. Doesn't help that he looks like a geography teacher more than statesman. Shouldn't matter but it probably cost Milliband big time.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 11:53 am

Pr4wn wrote:A lovely post that serves only to bait others into arguments with you.

Cut it out.

Fair enough I will delete and re-word it.
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Post by superflyweight on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:04 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

Welcome to Scotland where any criticism of the government is shouted down and slagging off any form of political opposition is seen as satire.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:12 pm

I wonder where all those Tory and Labour voters have gone though? Scotland was a bastion of Labour voters then Tony Blair came along and similarly the Tory votes have decayed steadily since Thatcher/Major years.
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Post by superflyweight on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:17 pm

Probably f*cked off to somewhere with better weather.

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Post by Steffan on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:18 pm

I just been to vote in Welsh elections. Plaid Cymru all the way of course. Hoping we finally get the Red Tories out of south Wales or possibly form a coalition assembly again

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:18 pm

I suppose 'Parties' are finding out that they aren't People.  

People have voted with their feet and have gone to Aldi to do their shopping instead?  A Party is just a Word.... the voters are still there.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:I suppose 'Parties' are finding out that they aren't People.  

People have voted with their feet and have gone to Aldi to do their shopping instead?  A Party is just a Word.... the voters are still there.

Yes still there and disenchanted with decades of mis-rule. People can only take so much BS and it is inevitable they will vote for an alternative. A bit like if you go to a pub for years then it goes downhill with drug users taking over and constant fights etc then you take your custom elsewhere. It happens. On an embryonic scale I'd say it is beginning to happen in England with UKIP.
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:30 pm

UKIP pretty much has a do or die moment coming up next month. The SNP are still hoping for another referendum after they lost first time round. There wont be a repeat of the EU referendum for a long time barring exceptional circumstances. If we vote stay, UKIP are pretty much done as a party.

Wouldn't rule out another protest party being formed though.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:41 pm

GSC wrote:UKIP pretty much has a do or die moment coming up next month. The SNP are still hoping for another referendum after they lost first time round. There wont be a repeat of the EU referendum for a long time barring exceptional circumstances. If we vote stay, UKIP are pretty much done as a party.

Wouldn't rule out another protest party being formed though.

If we vote to remain, UKIP will have a surge of support.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 12:45 pm

GSC wrote:UKIP pretty much has a do or die moment coming up next month. The SNP are still hoping for another referendum after they lost first time round. There wont be a repeat of the EU referendum for a long time barring exceptional circumstances. If we vote stay, UKIP are pretty much done as a party.

Wouldn't rule out another protest party being formed though.

I see what you are saying but wouldn't say it is at a do or die stage for UKIP. I suppose a lot depends on UKIP's hunger, appetite and spirit. If they want big things immediately it won't happen. Mentality should be more like a baby beginning to walk - little steps at a time. One step at a time and look to build.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:28 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:30 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I suppose 'Parties' are finding out that they aren't People.  

People have voted with their feet and have gone to Aldi to do their shopping instead?  A Party is just a Word.... the voters are still there.

Yes still there and disenchanted with decades of mis-rule. People can only take so much BS and it is inevitable they will vote for an alternative. A bit like if you go to a pub for years then it goes downhill with drug users taking over and constant fights etc then you take your custom elsewhere. It happens. On an embryonic scale I'd say it is beginning to happen in England with UKIP.

Yeh, so much better to be run poorly by smelly socks than someone with a supposed affinity to south of the border...... Rolling Eyes

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:34 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

Experience educates people and fashions how they vote.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:37 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I suppose 'Parties' are finding out that they aren't People.  

People have voted with their feet and have gone to Aldi to do their shopping instead?  A Party is just a Word.... the voters are still there.

Yes still there and disenchanted with decades of mis-rule. People can only take so much BS and it is inevitable they will vote for an alternative. A bit like if you go to a pub for years then it goes downhill with drug users taking over and constant fights etc then you take your custom elsewhere. It happens. On an embryonic scale I'd say it is beginning to happen in England with UKIP.

Yeh, so much better to be run poorly by smelly socks than someone with a supposed affinity to south of the border...... Rolling Eyes

You see there you go again.

Voters will invariably vote on what is best for them economically so pray tell how the SNP are getting so many votes. They have been in power now for years so if (by your estimation) they are running the country so poorly we should, therefore, see a swift change in things with many gains for the Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour party.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:40 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

Experience educates people and fashions how they vote.

No it doesn't. SNP have been less than useless in office and everything has gotten worse.

Yet numpty nationalists still keep voting them in.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:42 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I suppose 'Parties' are finding out that they aren't People.  

People have voted with their feet and have gone to Aldi to do their shopping instead?  A Party is just a Word.... the voters are still there.

Yes still there and disenchanted with decades of mis-rule. People can only take so much BS and it is inevitable they will vote for an alternative. A bit like if you go to a pub for years then it goes downhill with drug users taking over and constant fights etc then you take your custom elsewhere. It happens. On an embryonic scale I'd say it is beginning to happen in England with UKIP.

Yeh, so much better to be run poorly by smelly socks than someone with a supposed affinity to south of the border...... Rolling Eyes

You see there you go again.

Voters will invariably vote on what is best for them economically so pray tell how the SNP are getting so many votes. They have been in power now for years so if (by your estimation) they are running the country so poorly we should, therefore, see a swift change in things with many gains for the Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour party.

Please see earlier posts ref ignorance & stupidity of nationalism.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:43 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

Experience educates people and fashions how they vote.

No it doesn't.  SNP have been less than useless in office and everything has gotten worse.

Yet numpty nationalists still keep voting them in.

So who exactly did these 'numpy's' use to vote for? And why do they no longer vote Tory or Labour?
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:46 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

Experience educates people and fashions how they vote.

No it doesn't.  SNP have been less than useless in office and everything has gotten worse.

Yet numpty nationalists still keep voting them in.

Well that is in your opinion and by no means fact. If it were based in fact then surely to high heavens people would take their votes elsewhere especially considering independence isn't the issue in this election.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 1:49 pm

The Economist wrote:Scotland’s economy is flagging, thanks in large part to the drop in world oil prices. GDP growth in 2015 was 1.9%, year on year, against 2.3% in Britain. Unemployment is falling, but the growth in jobs is weaker than in the country as a whole. Scotland’s budget deficit is about twice Britain’s as a share of GDP; the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, reckons that whereas Britain will be in surplus by 2019-20, Scotland will have a deficit equal to 6.2% of GDP.

Public services are sliding too. Standards of literacy and numeracy among primary-school pupils have fallen. In 2015 the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, reported that secondary students’ attainment in mathematics, which a decade ago was among the highest in the world, is now only average. Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol. Farmers protested outside Holyrood in March over computer failures that delayed payment of their EU subsidies for months.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 05 May 2016, 2:04 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

Experience educates people and fashions how they vote.

No it doesn't.  SNP have been less than useless in office and everything has gotten worse.

Yet numpty nationalists still keep voting them in.

Swap "SNP" for "Tories" and you might have a point.

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Post by Steffan on Thu 05 May 2016, 2:10 pm

Scotland are lucky to have the SNP

Labour have ruined Wales yet they keep getting re-elected in the Assembly

The SNP are also doing much better job than what the Tories are in England

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 2:12 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
The Economist wrote:Scotland’s economy is flagging, thanks in large part to the drop in world oil prices. GDP growth in 2015 was 1.9%, year on year, against 2.3% in Britain. Unemployment is falling, but the growth in jobs is weaker than in the country as a whole. Scotland’s budget deficit is about twice Britain’s as a share of GDP; the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, reckons that whereas Britain will be in surplus by 2019-20, Scotland will have a deficit equal to 6.2% of GDP.

Public services are sliding too. Standards of literacy and numeracy among primary-school pupils have fallen. In 2015 the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, reported that secondary students’ attainment in mathematics, which a decade ago was among the highest in the world, is now only average. Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol. Farmers protested outside Holyrood in March over computer failures that delayed payment of their EU subsidies for months.

Says a newspaper opposed to independence. I wouldn't hold too much sway in a rag that endorsed the election of the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.

Today people choose and you are doing a massive dis-service to Scots. Scots like any other person voting today will vote for the party they feel best represents them and if you are saying the SNP are doing so badly it will reflect in the vote - no two ways about it. The Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour and Lib Dems are all their waiting to take the votes. Fot anyone to say that SNP are merely getting votes because they back independence is daft as it is not on the agenda here. Besides, there are now alternative parties even more aggressively pushing for independence such as the SSP and Scottish Green Party so surely people would vote for them instead if independence is the be all and end all which it clearly is not.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 2:13 pm

Steffan wrote:Scotland are lucky to have the SNP

Labour have ruined Wales yet they keep getting re-elected in the Assembly

The SNP are also doing much better job than what the Tories are in England

Exactly.
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Post by Steffan on Thu 05 May 2016, 2:19 pm

Also, I know plenty of Scottish people who voted to stay in the UK yet are still SNP supporters

To suggest that voting SNP is purely based on narrow minded nationalism is ridiculous. As if they have all come out of the woodwork and were not voting previously

My ex girlfriend from Stirling votes SNP...because the Tories and Labour are such a poor alternative that's why

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 2:28 pm

Steffan wrote:Also, I know plenty of Scottish people who voted to stay in the UK yet are still SNP supporters

To suggest that voting SNP is purely based on narrow minded nationalism is ridiculous. As if they have all come out of the woodwork and were not voting previously

My ex girlfriend from Stirling votes SNP...because the Tories and Labour are such a poor alternative that's why

Precisely.

People (whatever their nationality) are not one-eyed enough to blindly vote for a party who they feel is not serving them well. NO WAY. It is akin to everything in life - don't do your job well and support will quickly disappear.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:07 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Well it is local elections day today and polls suggesting a handsome win for the SNP in Scotland today. It would seem the chief issue up for grabs are Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour fighting over the crumbs and bragging rights to who can be called the main opposition.

The ignorance of nationalism knows no bounds.

Feel sorry for intelligent people resident in Scotland......

Experience educates people and fashions how they vote.

No it doesn't.  SNP have been less than useless in office and everything has gotten worse.

Yet numpty nationalists still keep voting them in.

Swap "SNP" for "Tories" and you might have a point.

Except it wouldn't be close to a point.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:09 pm

Steffan wrote:Scotland are lucky to have the SNP

Labour have ruined Wales yet they keep getting re-elected in the Assembly

The SNP are also doing much better job than what the Tories are in England

Except they're not, or did you just ignore my post from the Economist??

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:15 pm

Don't you mean the Gospel of St. Economist?

I'm no supporter of the SNP but the Tories are doing a disastrous job in the rest of the UK. To look at headline GDP figures and say things like "Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol" is just lazy and frankly cr@p journalism.

GDP is growing in the UK but all of the money is going to the already filthy rich. The poor are getting poorer and the Tory government are actively encouraging it.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:30 pm

Pr4wn wrote:GDP is growing in the UK but all of the money is going to the already filthy rich. The poor are getting poorer and the Tory government are actively encouraging it.

Truly the heir to Blair.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:32 pm

Quite!

Though at least Blair increased funding to the NHS and schools rather than cutting it.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:41 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
The Economist wrote:Scotland’s economy is flagging, thanks in large part to the drop in world oil prices. GDP growth in 2015 was 1.9%, year on year, against 2.3% in Britain. Unemployment is falling, but the growth in jobs is weaker than in the country as a whole. Scotland’s budget deficit is about twice Britain’s as a share of GDP; the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, reckons that whereas Britain will be in surplus by 2019-20, Scotland will have a deficit equal to 6.2% of GDP.

Public services are sliding too. Standards of literacy and numeracy among primary-school pupils have fallen. In 2015 the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, reported that secondary students’ attainment in mathematics, which a decade ago was among the highest in the world, is now only average. Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol. Farmers protested outside Holyrood in March over computer failures that delayed payment of their EU subsidies for months.

Says a newspaper opposed to independence. I wouldn't hold too much sway in a rag that endorsed the election of the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.


Forgot literacy & numeracy rates were opinion, not fact, ditto GDP growth rates, and that OECD were not an independent organisation and actually have a vested interest in doing Scotland down.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:43 pm

Sorry but my original point stands.

Scots, like anyone else voting today, will vote for the party that best represents them and the one they feel can do the best job for them. Even if they are staunch independence backers that is not on the agenda here - the voters do realize this and are voting on the party they trust or truly believe are acting in their best interests.That being the case (if the Economist and TopHat are to be believed) it will show in the results tonight.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:46 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Don't you mean the Gospel of St. Economist?

I'm no supporter of the SNP but the Tories are doing a disastrous job in the rest of the UK. To look at headline GDP figures and say things like "Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol" is just lazy and frankly cr@p journalism.

GDP is growing in the UK but all of the money is going to the already filthy rich. The poor are getting poorer and the Tory government are actively encouraging it.

Not just talking about GDP. Jobs growth? Literacy & numeracy rates?

I don't see any measures whereby SNP in Scotland could be said to be outperforming Tories in rUK.

Also, the reason your point was moot, was because unlike the SNP the Tories haven't been voted back/retained in power or increased majorities whilst this has been going on. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if their influenced declined following the current elections and they'll have just lost the most important non-MP position in the country.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:48 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but my original point stands.

Scots, like anyone else voting today, will vote for the party that best represents them and the one they feel can do the best job for them. Even if they are staunch independence backers that is not on the agenda here - the voters do realize this and are voting on the party they trust or truly believe are acting in their best interests.That being the case (if the Economist and TopHat are to be believed) it will show in the results tonight.

Your original point is still unsubstantiated baloney. SNP have performed appallingly, worsened Scotland more than Tories or Labour have to rUK, but they'll keep getting re-elected because thick ignorant Scots rather be ruled by a 'home team' than Westminster.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:48 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
The Economist wrote:Scotland’s economy is flagging, thanks in large part to the drop in world oil prices. GDP growth in 2015 was 1.9%, year on year, against 2.3% in Britain. Unemployment is falling, but the growth in jobs is weaker than in the country as a whole. Scotland’s budget deficit is about twice Britain’s as a share of GDP; the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, reckons that whereas Britain will be in surplus by 2019-20, Scotland will have a deficit equal to 6.2% of GDP.

Public services are sliding too. Standards of literacy and numeracy among primary-school pupils have fallen. In 2015 the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, reported that secondary students’ attainment in mathematics, which a decade ago was among the highest in the world, is now only average. Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol. Farmers protested outside Holyrood in March over computer failures that delayed payment of their EU subsidies for months.

Says a newspaper opposed to independence. I wouldn't hold too much sway in a rag that endorsed the election of the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.


Forgot literacy & numeracy rates were opinion, not fact, ditto GDP growth rates, and that OECD were not an independent organisation and actually have a vested interest in doing Scotland down.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

And shall we sweep under the carpet what Thatcher's Tory rule did for Scotland such as higher unemployment, a decline in manufacturing, greater strikes, higher interest rates and a growing rise in poverty. Look deeply at Labour and Tory governments and you can find so many flaws as well.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:49 pm

I dont think we want to have a discussion on the conservatives and education. Nicky Morgan certainly doesn't, she has skipped a few, got booed at a conference and then couldn't spell sincerely when it was the only word she had to write.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:51 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but my original point stands.

Scots, like anyone else voting today, will vote for the party that best represents them and the one they feel can do the best job for them. Even if they are staunch independence backers that is not on the agenda here - the voters do realize this and are voting on the party they trust or truly believe are acting in their best interests.That being the case (if the Economist and TopHat are to be believed) it will show in the results tonight.


I'm inclined to disagree. I can't imagine too many pro-EU voters backing UKIP in English council elections today, for instance, even though such a topic isn't on the agenda.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:52 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but my original point stands.

Scots, like anyone else voting today, will vote for the party that best represents them and the one they feel can do the best job for them. Even if they are staunch independence backers that is not on the agenda here - the voters do realize this and are voting on the party they trust or truly believe are acting in their best interests.That being the case (if the Economist and TopHat are to be believed) it will show in the results tonight.

Your original point is still unsubstantiated baloney.  SNP have performed appallingly, worsened Scotland more than Tories or Labour have to rUK, but they'll keep getting re-elected because thick ignorant Scots rather be ruled by a 'home team' than Westminster.

Keep sticking your head in the sand if it makes you feel better and quite frankly your stereo-typing is in appalling bad taste.
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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but my original point stands.

Scots, like anyone else voting today, will vote for the party that best represents them and the one they feel can do the best job for them. Even if they are staunch independence backers that is not on the agenda here - the voters do realize this and are voting on the party they trust or truly believe are acting in their best interests.That being the case (if the Economist and TopHat are to be believed) it will show in the results tonight.


I'm inclined to disagree. I can't imagine too many pro-EU voters backing UKIP in English council elections today, for instance, even though such a topic isn't on the agenda.

Apples and oranges.

The SNP have set out their manifesto for these elections and it doesn't include an independence referendum.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 3:58 pm

Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but my original point stands.

Scots, like anyone else voting today, will vote for the party that best represents them and the one they feel can do the best job for them. Even if they are staunch independence backers that is not on the agenda here - the voters do realize this and are voting on the party they trust or truly believe are acting in their best interests.That being the case (if the Economist and TopHat are to be believed) it will show in the results tonight.


I'm inclined to disagree. I can't imagine too many pro-EU voters backing UKIP in English council elections today, for instance, even though such a topic isn't on the agenda.

It is the bigger picture they need to keep their eye on though. It may not happen for them here but there is certainly the potential for hoovering up disenchanted Labour/Tory/Lib Dem devotees in the future elections. To do that they must tread carefully and portray themselves as a viable alternative.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 05 May 2016, 5:02 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
The Economist wrote:Scotland’s economy is flagging, thanks in large part to the drop in world oil prices. GDP growth in 2015 was 1.9%, year on year, against 2.3% in Britain. Unemployment is falling, but the growth in jobs is weaker than in the country as a whole. Scotland’s budget deficit is about twice Britain’s as a share of GDP; the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, reckons that whereas Britain will be in surplus by 2019-20, Scotland will have a deficit equal to 6.2% of GDP.

Public services are sliding too. Standards of literacy and numeracy among primary-school pupils have fallen. In 2015 the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, reported that secondary students’ attainment in mathematics, which a decade ago was among the highest in the world, is now only average. Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol. Farmers protested outside Holyrood in March over computer failures that delayed payment of their EU subsidies for months.

Says a newspaper opposed to independence. I wouldn't hold too much sway in a rag that endorsed the election of the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.


Forgot literacy & numeracy rates were opinion, not fact, ditto GDP growth rates, and that OECD were not an independent organisation and actually have a vested interest in doing Scotland down.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

And shall we sweep under the carpet what Thatcher's Tory rule did for Scotland such as higher unemployment, a decline in manufacturing, greater strikes, higher interest rates and a growing rise in poverty. Look deeply at Labour and Tory governments and you can find so many flaws as well.

We're not comparing the 80s and now though. We're comparing now and now. SNP performance over the last couple of terms its been in office versus the areas governed by Westminster over the same period. And there deciding whether it appears some of you Jocks vote with your hearts or your heads.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 05 May 2016, 5:15 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
The Economist wrote:Scotland’s economy is flagging, thanks in large part to the drop in world oil prices. GDP growth in 2015 was 1.9%, year on year, against 2.3% in Britain. Unemployment is falling, but the growth in jobs is weaker than in the country as a whole. Scotland’s budget deficit is about twice Britain’s as a share of GDP; the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, reckons that whereas Britain will be in surplus by 2019-20, Scotland will have a deficit equal to 6.2% of GDP.

Public services are sliding too. Standards of literacy and numeracy among primary-school pupils have fallen. In 2015 the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, reported that secondary students’ attainment in mathematics, which a decade ago was among the highest in the world, is now only average. Merging Scotland’s eight police forces into one in 2013 has provoked complaints of less accountable and unnecessarily standardised policing, with armed coppers cavorting through low-crime rural areas on routine patrol. Farmers protested outside Holyrood in March over computer failures that delayed payment of their EU subsidies for months.

Says a newspaper opposed to independence. I wouldn't hold too much sway in a rag that endorsed the election of the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.


Forgot literacy & numeracy rates were opinion, not fact, ditto GDP growth rates, and that OECD were not an independent organisation and actually have a vested interest in doing Scotland down.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

And shall we sweep under the carpet what Thatcher's Tory rule did for Scotland such as higher unemployment, a decline in manufacturing, greater strikes, higher interest rates and a growing rise in poverty. Look deeply at Labour and Tory governments and you can find so many flaws as well.

We're not comparing the 80s and now though.  We're comparing now and now.  SNP performance over the last couple of terms its been in office versus the areas governed by Westminster over the same period.  And there deciding whether it appears some of you Jocks vote with your hearts or your heads.

The 80s example is evidence of the Tories blitzkrieg of Scotland the the grassroots as to why your party has bombed in Scotland. Labour under Tony Blair leading the country to wars built on lies that nobody but the government wanted are reasons why Labour's vote has bombed in Scotland. For decades the Tories and Labour mis-managed Scotland and now they are paying for it.

Going by your mentality then can I offer an opinion that Conservatives will be voted in at the next General Election because the UK (outwith Scotland) are too 'thick and ignorant' to vote elsewhere.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 05 May 2016, 5:42 pm

@PickardJE
One source suggests turnout in London of just 12 per cent as of 4pm: if true, could be heading for a record mayoral low.


If true, good Lord!

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 06 May 2016, 1:02 pm

Quick update:

Councils - Labour lose a bit; Con/Lab/UKIP gain a bit.

Wales - Labour lose a bit, no majority; UKIP land their breakthrough; Plaid have second place over the Cons.

Scotland - Labour down to third; SNP fall just short of an expected majority.

NI - Wait and see

London - Khan surely has the mayoral position sown up

PCCs - Does anyone care?

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 06 May 2016, 1:12 pm

Conservatives now the go to party for unionist voters in Scotland. They hoovered up disenchanted Labour voters as Labour continue to sit on the fence on too many policies.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 06 May 2016, 1:34 pm

Some quick thoughts.

The media/pollsters have called it desperately wrong again! Yesterday there was talk that Labour would lose anything from 150 to 200 seats in the local England councils. At the time of writing, they've lost (net) a grand total of... 6. After calling last year's GE wrong where they overestimated the Labour vote, have the pollsters gone too far the other way? Is the media bubble - overwhelmingly hostile to Corbyn - overclouding their judgement? Possibly.

Scotland a disaster for Labour, but not an unexpected one. Results now more aligned with the 2015 GE results than with the last Scottish parlementary elections. Cons and to a lesser extent Lib Dems seem to have benefited from tactical unionist voting in some places, and indeed Cons have run a good campaign on anti-independence. Don't think Labour should blame Corbyn too much for results here, Duggale is after all more of a "Blairite" and has distanced herself from him, but it is very worrying for Labour that they've slipped so badly. Lots of work needed.

Wales not much changed. Labour lost one seat (net) which cost them overall control, and UKIP made some gains, after standing for the first time in lots of places. Will say a bit more about UKIP later.

England no substantial changes: Labour lose control of Dudley, Cons of Worcester, but overall results pretty much the same as 2012 council-wise. Labour have surprisingly done better than expected in the South, suggesting that Corbyn might not be as toxic to voters as people (and the media) have tried to make him out to be, but worryingly leaking voters in some of their Northern heartlands. Need to address that.

With regards the longer term it's hard to make a judgement. People will say Labour should be making progress while in opposition, but they are comparing to a time (2012) where Milliband was at the height of his popularity, so in effect holding those results isn't too bad, but neither is it particularly good. They've made progress from last year, but not enough at this stage to look on track for victory in 2020. London will be a good win for them though, and Corbyn has done enough to silence calls for a coup.

UKIP. I'm a bit surprised they haven't done better TBH. They've had some good results, but as the only (reasonably main) party backing Leave I honestly thought they'd make more gains than they have done. Decent breakthrough in Wales, and a few gains in England, and I know the system rather works against them, but still... Will be interesting to see what happens to them after the Referendum: if the vote is to Remain, they could go into the wilderness, but it's not impossible the resentment of those wanting to Leave would benefit them (similarly to the SNP - albeit different situations).

On a personal note, given the appaling campaign run by Cons in London, I'm delighted it looks like they're losing fairly heavily there. A win after such a disgustingly divisive and Islamophobic campaign would have made such gutter politics even more of the norm than it is already, which is a deeply depressing thought.

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Post by GSC on Fri 06 May 2016, 1:34 pm

Given the 2016 DC and co have had, hugely disappointing from Labour.
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Post by Azzy on Fri 06 May 2016, 1:45 pm

I am moving out of London if Sadiq Khan becomes Mayor. I would gladly have paid for more votes, if you could buy such a privilege.

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