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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 11 Feb 2016, 2:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Unions are like cops....Everyone hates them until they need one..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 1:30 pm

One can only hope the Lib dems can pinch Pro EU seats back from May...To keep her majority down.

I want rid of Corbyn and will not vote Labour..

Not happy with bollox like this though....

I imagine Thanet South and the other election probes have made her panic into this...She only has a 13 ?? Majority.

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 1:32 pm

I think it's the small majority anyway. Any move the government makes is a potential minefield.
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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 1:34 pm

I'm not sure yet, but imagine it won't be Labour. Corbyn as PM sounds like a disaster in the making.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 1:40 pm

Oh Dear, a few rays of sun and everyone gets c0cky - even the wimmin!

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:00 pm

The last thing Britain needs during these tense negotiations is a Scots Independence Referendum, far too distracting from the task at hand.

Let's have a General Election instead. Much better.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:05 pm

Pr4wn wrote:The last thing Britain needs during these tense negotiations is a Scots Independence Referendum, far too distracting from the task at hand.

Let's have a General Election instead. Much better.

Take your pick though as a lot of people will say the last thing the UK needs right now is a Hard Brexit but as sure as eggs are eggs we are going to have it.
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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:10 pm

May is putting her own personal political interests ahead of the interests of her country.

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:11 pm

By asking the country to affirm her political interests?
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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:30 pm

Isn't this a good thing? stops everyone moaning about a PM that hasn't been voted in, lets the rest of the coutnry decide if they really want May leading them forwards or so on

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:35 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Isn't this a good thing? stops everyone moaning about a PM that hasn't been voted in, lets the rest of the coutnry decide if they really want May leading them forwards or so on

Thing is the Conservative party brought the Fixed Government act in to shore up the coalition with the Lib dems......To keep them in power for 5 years..

Now they have a slender majority and a huge poll lead it's convenient not to abide by it....

Maybe you'd feel different if Trump bombed somewhere unpopular went up to a 60% approval rating and said right I'm having a Presidential election in four weeks..

You either want a democracy or you don't..

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:36 pm

I'm not saying it isn't a good thing. This is probably (and very depressingly) Labour's best hope. But her reasons for calling the election are to further her own personal ambitions.

The whole reason that the Fixed Term Parliament Act was passed in 2011 was to stop stuff like this from happening. PMs calling elections at what they feel are opportune times is not good for the UK.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:40 pm

Pr4wn wrote:May is putting her own personal political interests ahead of the interests of her country.

She's attempting to put a spanner in the works of I'm sure the long and many sequences of stoppages and parliamentary 'checks' that the opposition benches had planned for every step of the Brexit process.  

It doesn't seem all that good for a Nation's interests, when trying to extract the best deal for itself in a divorce, to have the UK's opposition cheering on the external force (EU) as that EU attempts to play hard ball with the conditions of the divorce.  

So May is risking it to gain more control of the speed and direction of the journey.  The opposition forces are of course livid that she has asked the electorate to choose the speed of the process.  She might regret the gamble but they'll all be secretly rattled that they'd been asked to prove they have the mandate to stall, stall and stall again.

 Maybe though she should just have gone the whole hog and made it a referendum on Presidential Executive Dictatorship?  It's all the rage in places like Turkey and Brussels these days Wink

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:49 pm

Could also argue a PM with no personal mandate, driving a break with our biggest partner, according to the vision of some hard-core eurosceptics who can hold a government with a tiny majority to ransom isn't in the UKs interests
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:50 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I'm not saying it isn't a good thing. This is probably (and very depressingly) Labour's best hope. But her reasons for calling the election are to further her own personal ambitions.

The whole reason that the Fixed Term Parliament Act was passed in 2011 was to stop stuff like this from happening. PMs calling elections at what they feel are opportune times is not good for the UK.

I agree with you that it makes a mockery of the recent law to call a snap election in june and it is most likely TM plan to convert her slender majority into a large one based on the poll ratings. However I do think that in these circumstances a snap election needs to be done because of a number of reasons. first is due to Brexit and do the British people want TM leading them in Brexit and what kind of brexit do they want. The second is TM being voted in as PM. She was never elected as PM and this wpuld give the public their right to say if they want her as PM. and the third is of Scottish independence. Do the scots want to remain part of the uk in which case they would vote for a unionist party or do they want independence in which case they vote SNP. They 100% know that a vote for SNP is a vote for independence in this election.

I would add though that it should have been called before we invoked article 50 rather than nearly 3 months after.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:51 pm

GSC wrote:Could also argue a PM with no personal mandate, driving a break with our biggest partner, according to the vision of some hard-core eurosceptics who can hold a government with a tiny majority to ransom isn't in the UKs interests

You can spin as much as you like.....

Do we have a Fixed term act ??

What she call it if the polls were close ??...

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:52 pm

I'm actually impressed she's resisted this long to call one. Probably should've been one after DC resigned, but can see the logic behind not having a GE in the wake of a particularly bitter referendum
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:53 pm

GSC wrote:Could also argue a PM with no personal mandate, driving a break with our biggest partner, according to the vision of some hard-core eurosceptics who can hold a government with a tiny majority to ransom isn't in the UKs interests

since when has a tiny majority become a minority?

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:55 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
GSC wrote:Could also argue a PM with no personal mandate, driving a break with our biggest partner, according to the vision of some hard-core eurosceptics who can hold a government with a tiny majority to ransom isn't in the UKs interests

You can spin as much as you like.....

Do we have a Fixed term act ??

What she call it if the polls were close ??...

I'm not disagreeing on those points Truss. It's very opportunistic. But neither is necessarily a bad thing.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:20 pm

But how can she be trusted? This is a woman who boasted she isn't for turning and since that comment she has turned twice in the last month or two. First to change the budget after a massive man sausage-up and second to call a snap election after earlier insisting that wouldn't happen. She has more turns than a Byrds hit single.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:27 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote: and the third is of Scottish independence. Do the scots want to remain part of the uk in which case they would vote for a unionist party or do they want independence in which case they vote SNP. They 100% know that a vote for SNP is a vote for independence in this election.


Well 45% of Scots voted for independence last time around and that figure certainly has not lessened. Transform 45% into a general election and it equates to lots of seats. The Scottish Tories are already painting the upcoming local elections as a vote for them as a vote against another independence referendum (basically saying to hell with local policies) and the general election will be the same. However, there are many of the 54% no voters who are Labour voters or Lib Dem voters so it waters down a lot their strength in all areas across Scotland. My guess would be that to expect the SNP to hold or increase the amount of seats they have would be unrealistic but can't see any party making big gains in Scotland. Perhaps see things returned as SNP 50 seats Scottish Conservative 3 seats Lib Dems 5 seats and Scottish Labour 1 seat.[/quote]
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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Isn't this a good thing? stops everyone moaning about a PM that hasn't been voted in, lets the rest of the coutnry decide if they really want May leading them forwards or so on

Thing is the Conservative party brought the Fixed Government act in to shore up the coalition with the Lib dems......To keep them in power for 5 years..

Now they have a slender majority and a huge poll lead it's convenient not to abide by it....

Maybe you'd feel different if Trump bombed somewhere unpopular went up to a 60% approval rating and said right I'm having a Presidential election in four weeks..

You either want a democracy or you don't..

This has gone right over my head Truss, is it aimed at me? if so, what does bombing have to do with it?

Trump (nearly put Truss then :-) is president whether we like it or not, voted in by the people so imo that is democracy. Don't like the guy and think he's a bit of a plum but doesn't give me the right to tell the majority of yanks there votes mean nothing to my 1 overriding voice :-)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:52 pm

Maybe it was a poor comparison by me..............

The US.... has fixed elections to stop Presiudents picking and choosing when to go to the public and more importantly for Political stability in the system.....

Those were the reasons given by Cameron in 2010 apparently...........

A poll over the weekend has given the Tories a 21 point lead..........All of a sudden we need an election over Brexit and the future.......

Just my opinion..... and my opinion means bo diddly.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:54 pm

Another thing here. May told Scotland now was not the time for another indyref as we all had to concentrate on Brexit discussions but she feels it is fine to throw in a general election.
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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:56 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:But how can she be trusted? This is a woman who boasted she isn't for turning and since that comment she has turned twice in the last month or two. First to change the budget after a massive man sausage-up and second to call a snap election after earlier insisting that wouldn't happen. She has more turns than a Byrds hit single.

Wasn't this Thatcher?

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Maybe it was a poor comparison by me..............

The US.... has fixed elections to stop Presiudents picking and choosing when to go to the public and more importantly for Political stability in the system.....

Those were the reasons given by Cameron in 2010 apparently...........

A poll over the weekend has given the Tories a 21 point lead..........All of a sudden we need an election over Brexit and the future.......

Just my opinion..... and my opinion means bo diddly.

All opinions are valid bud, you know that :-).

Makes more sense now though. I think with the GE you can look at it either way at the minute. I gotta be honest and say I don't really see the need for a GE at the moment although if TM is going to constantly be undermined by the 'you weren't elected' brigade and it's causing an impact to Britain as a whole then it needs to be done I suppose.

Actually agree with you on that one Craig, what's good for the goose is good for the gander

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:59 pm

Derbymanc wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:But how can she be trusted? This is a woman who boasted she isn't for turning and since that comment she has turned twice in the last month or two. First to change the budget after a massive man sausage-up and second to call a snap election after earlier insisting that wouldn't happen. She has more turns than a Byrds hit single.

Wasn't this Thatcher?

No it was her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3818772/This-lady-not-turning-historic-speech-PM-says-trigger-Brexit-March-vows-control-borders-slams-Remainers-subverting-democracy.html
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 4:03 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Another thing here. May told Scotland now was not the time for another indyref as we all had to concentrate on Brexit discussions but she feels it is fine to throw in a general election.

OK Undoubtedly Nicola will be charging into the melee with words of such a nature on her lips

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 4:12 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:But how can she be trusted? This is a woman who boasted she isn't for turning and since that comment she has turned twice in the last month or two. First to change the budget after a massive man sausage-up and second to call a snap election after earlier insisting that wouldn't happen. She has more turns than a Byrds hit single.

Wasn't this Thatcher?

No it was her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3818772/This-lady-not-turning-historic-speech-PM-says-trigger-Brexit-March-vows-control-borders-slams-Remainers-subverting-democracy.html

Well firstly, she's a politician. Secondly, she's a politician. Asking a politician not to change his or her opinion mid-sentence is like asking a rabid dog not to bite. It's the nature of the beast. Read my lips, I will say what I need to say to get elected and/or stay elected. And I am comfortable that not one politician will be able to throw the first stone at me for the sin of double-speak.

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 4:43 pm

Where's Duty to tell us he's put 1k down on a UKIP majority when we need him.
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 5:55 pm

GSC wrote:Where's Duty to tell us he's put 1k down on a UKIP majority when we need him.

I think this GE will be the end for UKIP. the result in stoke at the last byelection which was the highest place to vote brexit shows UKIP cant win seats.

A panellist on question time summed it up perfectly a few weeks ago, they said ' all I have been hearing from UKIP on tonights show is that I agree with Theresa May, if all UKIP does is agree with the Conservatives then why bother voting for UKIP, you might as well vote for the Conservatives'.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:29 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote:
GSC wrote:Where's Duty to tell us he's put 1k down on a UKIP majority when we need him.

I think this GE will be the end for UKIP. the result in stoke at the last byelection which was the highest place to vote brexit shows UKIP cant win seats.

A panellist on question time summed it up perfectly a few weeks ago, they said ' all I have been hearing from UKIP on tonights show is that I agree with Theresa May, if all UKIP does is agree with the Conservatives then why bother voting for UKIP, you might as well vote for the Conservatives'.

Precisely. If UKIP wanted to remain a relevant option then they need to have a clear direction away from the other parties to encourage people to vote for them but they don't have that. The wind has also been taken out of their sails as their main reason for being has been achieved - exit from the EU. Now where do they go? They don't seem to know.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:32 pm

This election could bring about the Rise of the Ginger Gurner.  Even Donald Trump's generals shiver in fear

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:34 pm

They also swap leaders more often than Labour hold elections
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:45 pm

Will there be televised leadership debates like in 2010 and 2015? or is there not enough time to organise them etc

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:51 pm

May has said there will be no leadership debates so that means there'll probably be ten of them before June.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:51 pm

SecretFly wrote:May has said there will be no leadership debates so that means there'll probably be ten of them before June.

haha that's quite funny.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 7:04 pm

The Tories General Election 2017 anthem:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX6SuX0Z6AQ
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 8:06 pm

Debates at the PM's say so....Another slap for democracy..

But Cameron is to blame..He said three debates were a democratic right of the people in 2010 and then would only do one when it served him in 2015.

British democracy is a joke....Proud to be American.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 8:53 pm

I hope you're being ironic, Truss. Can never tell with you Laugh

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 8:56 pm

Hes not totally incorrect even if there is more than a hint of bait in that statement. Lots of it based on archaic rules that you seemingly have to be "in" the westminster club to understand/take part in.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:01 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Debates at the PM's say so....Another slap for democracy..

But Cameron is to blame..He said three debates were a democratic right of the people in 2010 and then would only do one when it served him in 2015.

British democracy is a joke....Proud to be American.

I don' know.  Do/Should News Networks/Broadcasting Companies control/regulate Democracy or should elected politicians have the bigger say?
Meanwhile, what mandate has Rex Tillerson from the American people to guide the foreign policy of the most powerful Nation on the planet?  Yep, an elected President appointed him but he has now more power than any elected person in the USA except the President himself and the vice President.  It's a system Americans are happy enough with but doesn't exactly have a clear-cut moral authority to think of itself as more democratic than other 'democratic' systems.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:13 pm

The CPS have told channel 4 they are thinking of bringing charges against 30 Conservatives over GE15.....Not all MPs. .

May has a 13 majority ??

Must be a coincidence... Secretfly

Spin away kid..I for one love your Wilde-ean-esque smokescreening efforts.. thumbsup

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:21 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Debates at the PM's say so....Another slap for democracy..

But Cameron is to blame..He said three debates were a democratic right of the people in 2010 and then would only do one when it served him in 2015.

British democracy is a joke....Proud to be American.

 Some of us spectators find American democracy pretty funny too.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:35 pm

It's not perfect Aucky...But 3 debates every election and an election every four years..




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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:45 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Another thing here. May told Scotland now was not the time for another indyref as we all had to concentrate on Brexit discussions but she feels it is fine to throw in a general election.

Scottish Independence would be a hindrance to Brexit negotiations, gaining a larger majority would be beneficial in that regard.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:48 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Another thing here. May told Scotland now was not the time for another indyref as we all had to concentrate on Brexit discussions but she feels it is fine to throw in a general election.

Scottish Independence would be a hindrance to Brexit negotiations, gaining a larger majority would be beneficial in that regard.

Already writing Nicola's speeches Hammersmith? Good man. OK

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 10:01 pm

Sturgeon is grandstanding...Not a good time for an independence rerun.

July last year maybe but all polls point to a continuance of the Union..

What Labour would give to be going into a GE with a Salmond or Sturgeon leading them though.

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Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 10:05 pm

Don't think you need either, Ed Miliband could win this election. Don't think it'd be that difficult either.
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Political round up............. - Page 19 Empty Re: Political round up.............

Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 10:18 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Sturgeon is grandstanding...Not a good time for an independence rerun.

July last year maybe but all polls point to a continuance of the Union..

What Labour would give to be going into a GE with a Salmond or Sturgeon leading them though.

Sturgeon speaks with the tone of someone that can't pretend they have not been well beaten in a poker game.  
May nabbed her cold and she ain't happy.  She'll now need a few more days yet to get her thoughts - and her main advisor's thoughts (Salmond  Whistle ) -sorted into something much more convincingly bullish and confident.

First blood very much to May.  Sturgeon beginning to look like a kid and needs to say much more now than the usual excuses, excuses about why the UK parliament is all wrong and the EU bureaucracy all right for a Nation that pretends it wants sovereign autonomy.

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Political round up............. - Page 19 Empty Re: Political round up.............

Post by GSC on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 10:22 pm

Sturgeon knows a good opportunist when she sees one.
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