Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

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Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by George Carlin on Sun 08 May 2016, 3:42 pm

    
Saracens v Leicester Tigers
21 May 2016
KO: 12:30
Allianz Park

Live on BT Sport

Referee: JP Doyle (115th Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix.
TMO: Graham Hughes.

A. Head to Head

52 Played 52
19 Wins 28
28 Losses 19
4 Draws 4
1044 Points 1269

B. Form

Sun 20 March 2016
Leicester Tigers 21 - 13 Saracens

Sat 2 January 2016
Saracens 26 - 6 Leicester Tigers

Sat 11 April 2015
Saracens 22 - 6 Leicester Tigers

Sun 16 November 2014
Leicester Tigers 21 - 21 Saracens

C. Teams

Saracens 

Goode; Ashton, Taylor, Barritt (capt), Wyles; Farrell, Wigglesworth; M. Vunipola, Brits, Du Plessis, Itoje, Kruis, Rhodes, Fraser, B. Vunipola.

Replacements: George, Barrington, Figallo, Hamilton, Wray, De Kock, Hodgson, Bosch.

Leicester Tigers

Tait (capt); Veainu, Betham, Tuilagi, Goneva; Williams, B. Youngs; Ayerza, Thacker, Cole, Barrow, Kitchener, Fitzgerald, O'Connor, McCaffrey.

Replacements: Ghiraldini, Genge, Mulipola, Slater, Evans, Kitto, Bell, Thompstone.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 21 May 2016, 1:13 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Sun 08 May 2016, 4:42 pm

Leicester by 50

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 08 May 2016, 7:43 pm

George Carlin wrote:
A. Head to Head

52 Played 52
19 Wins 6
28 Losses 22
4 Draws 4
1044 Points 1269



I am really struggling to make sense of this section

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 08 May 2016, 10:28 pm

Will Manu be fit? Will Tigers pick on form and go with young Evans? Will BOC be fit? Am I the only one that would like to see us start with all three open sides?

If everyone is fit I reckon we'll see;

Ayerza, Thacker, Cole
Barrow (I'd prefer Slater), Kitch
Fitz, McCaffery, BOC
Youngs, Williams
Manu, Betham
Goneva, TV, Thompstone

Bench; Genge, Leo (I'd prefer Bateman), Mulipola, Slater, Fonua (should be Evans), Kitto, Bell, Tait.

Bit harsh on Croft but he's only been steady and not his sensational best this season. Evans whilst half the size makes more impact than Fonua and I don't think Leo is match sharp but Cockers will revert to type and go for size and experience given the high profile game. With that in mind we may see Tait start with TV on the wing and probably our most consistent winger on the bench.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 09 May 2016, 8:44 am

Just can't see Saracens losing this one.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by yappysnap on Mon 09 May 2016, 9:33 am

Leicester by 20

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 May 2016, 9:40 am

All things being equal this should be a comfortable win for Sarries. They have lost just one match this season so far when not missing players on England duty. Even then it took a red card for Rhys Gill to allow Quins to gain the upper hand.

To win Leicester probably need Sarries to have beaten Racing in a fractious and draining ECC final this weekend. We probably need Sarries to be tired and missing key players due to bans, and even then Williams will need to execute much better tactical kicking than he has shown so far.

As it is I expect the match to follow a similar playing pattern to our losing ECC semi-final where we do all the running but get frustrated and turned over by a very physical defence. One difference will be that Sarries will not switch off and will score the points when the chances arise.

Sarries 26 - Leicester 7


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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 May 2016, 9:43 am

Assuming BOC and Manu fit I expect to see the following lineup:

Ayerza, Thacker, Cole, Slater, Kitch, Fitz, BOC, McCaffery; Youngs, Williams, Goneva, Manu, Betham, TV, Tait

Reps:
Leo, Logo, Balmain, Barrow, Croft, Kitto, Bell, Thompstone

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Jimpy on Mon 09 May 2016, 10:02 am

LondonTiger wrote:All things being equal this should be a comfortable win for Sarries. They have lost just one match this season so far when not missing players on England duty. Even then it took a red card for Rhys Gill to allow Quins to gain the upper hand.

To win Leicester probably need Sarries to have beaten Racing in a fractious and draining ECC final this weekend. We probably need Sarries to be tired and missing key players due to bans, and even then Williams will need to execute much better tactical kicking than he has shown so far.

As it is I expect the match to follow a similar playing pattern to our losing ECC semi-final where we do all the running but get frustrated and turned over by a very physical defence. One difference will be that Sarries will not switch off and will score the points when the chances arise.

Sarries 26 - Leicester 7


Difficult to disagree with that. All season Saracens have been clinical and disciplined, Tigers have been inconsistent, but even at their best, they don't have the talent to take this Saracens on for 80 minutes.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Mon 09 May 2016, 10:15 am

Meh Sarries ain't that tough.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Jimpy on Mon 09 May 2016, 10:34 am

Welly wrote: Meh Sarries ain't that tough.

Best team in the AP by a long way - Tigers are not.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Mon 09 May 2016, 11:46 am

Jimpy wrote:
Welly wrote: Meh Sarries ain't that tough.

Best team in the AP by a long way - Tigers are not.

And? What difference does that make in the payoffs?

They were not that impressive v us at there ground, esp considering the gulf in the two teams selected at the time.


They ain't that tough.



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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by yappysnap on Mon 09 May 2016, 11:50 am

Leicester need to score early and settle their nerves. If they get some early points then I don't think they'll try to force it, which'll mean less chances for Sarries, and as we've seen this season the new Saracens attack can often cause them problems too.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 May 2016, 11:57 am

I thought they absolutely destroyed us at their place, and we were flattered by the scoreline. We were pretty much humiliated up front and of the 12 forwards on duty it is likely that only Pearce and the injured Youngs will not feature in the rematch.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 May 2016, 12:01 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Assuming BOC and Manu fit I expect to see the following lineup:

Ayerza, Thacker, Cole, Slater, Kitch, Fitz, BOC, McCaffery; Youngs, Williams, Goneva, Manu, Betham, TV, Tait

Reps:
Leo, Logo, Balmain, Barrow, Croft, Kitto, Bell, Thompstone

Thinking about Ed's knees and the issues with the unforgiving pitch at Barnet I now suspect that Barrow will start instead.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by George Carlin on Mon 09 May 2016, 12:26 pm

So nobody is giving the Tiggers a prayer, then?

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 May 2016, 12:29 pm

George Carlin wrote:So nobody is giving the Tiggers a prayer, then?

We have a chance, but it requires Sarries to be off the pace.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Jimpy on Mon 09 May 2016, 12:49 pm

Welly wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Welly wrote: Meh Sarries ain't that tough.

Best team in the AP by a long way - Tigers are not.

And? What difference does that make in the payoffs?

They were not that impressive v us at there ground, esp considering the gulf in the two teams selected at the time.


They ain't that tough.



Nor were Sale at home or Falcons.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:26 pm

George Carlin wrote:So nobody is giving the Tiggers a prayer, then?

If Manu and BOC are fit then I'll feel we have a chance, especially with Sarries in a European final. If BOC isn't fit then my concern is that Cockers won't learn the lessons of this season and play Fitz and Fonua on the back row and Sarries will massacre us at the breakdown and gleefully cut down our big but cumbersome pack when we attack.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 May 2016, 10:20 am

Not sure the weekend will have taken much out of Sarries legs, unless they partied too much.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by beshocked on Mon 16 May 2016, 10:36 am

Sarries should start as deserved favourites but can never discount Tigers, Tigers are too streetwise and have won too many big matches for me to be written off. Plus you've still got a lot of quality players that if they click could unsettle Sarries.

Got a lot of respect for Tigers tenacity. I think that Tigers have more composure than Racing, Racing failed to ask too many questions of Saracens. Remember you faced an in form Racing halfback combo, Sarries didn't.

Sarries still have question marks over the attack which wasn't particularly impressive vs Wasps or Racing. I think Tigers have attacking weapons that can break down the Saracens defence, if you perform and lay the platform.


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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 18 May 2016, 1:54 pm

Leicester Mercury wrote:Leicester Tigers have received a big boost for their Aviva Premiership semi-final against Saracens with the news that three big name players, including Manu Tuilagi, have been declared fit for the game.

Openside flanker Brendon O'Connor and blindside flanker Mike Fitzgerald have both recovered from injuries.

They will be part of a strong Tigers squad that will travel to Allianz Park with their season on the line.And they will be aiming to end a horrible record at the home of the new European champions which has seen them lose all three previous visits by an aggregate of 97-22.

"Manu, Mike and Brendon are all good and available for selection," said Cockerill.

"Opeti Fonua should be fine. He has had a problem with his calf but he trained this morning and Matt Smith should be okay too.We have some selection issues because we have a good bill of health and people have put their hands up.

"Harry Thacker, Greg Bateman and Leo Ghiraldini are all fit at hooker. There are some tough selection choices and there are going to be some guys who are disappointed at not being involved.

"That is the nature of being involved at this time of year. It's nice to have relatively full squad, that's for sure.

"You would obviously like to have the injured guys back in. Freddie Burns' has now had surgery on his ankle and he should be back with the guys in pre-season.

"And we also miss the physicality of Tom Youngs and Mike Williams but by and large, we are in pretty good shape."

Saracens will also have few injuries but they will have the task of picking themselves up both mentally and physically after the high of winning the Champions Cup final last weekend.They will have history on their side though after cruising past the Tigers on their three previous visits to Barnet.

"I can't remember ever having a pleasant day down there and even seeing a good performance," said Cockerill."But this is the season for us, whereas they have already had a successful season with success in Europe.

"That was deservedly so because they controlled the game against Racing in the final and we will have it all to do to get the better of them.

"Both sides have a huge amount of respect for each other. If we are on our game and play how we want to play, we have no doubt that we can win."

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 19 May 2016, 9:42 am

The only selection choices are who plays 4 Slater or Barrow and who makes up the back three (do we bench Tait or Thompstone).

I'd bench Tait and Barrow personally but I think Cockers will go the other way. Barrow has been in form it did give away 13 points in a headless first half vs Racing.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 19 May 2016, 10:04 am

Slaters knees and Saries plastic pitch are not a good combo. I would also say that we need a FB who is strong under the high ball.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 19 May 2016, 12:50 pm

Good point on the pitch LT. Tait is better under the ball but dies less with it once he has it. Do you think we'll risk starting Bell?

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Thu 19 May 2016, 12:54 pm

11) Goneva
14) Thompstone
15) Veainu

For me

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 19 May 2016, 1:31 pm

That's what I'd go with Welly. TV should be on the ball and in space as much as possible.

Ayerza, Thacker, Cole
Barrow, Kitch
Fitz, McCaffery, BOC

As the pack though if we weren't on the plastic I'd have Slater ahead of Barrow. If BOC is a late withdrawal (again) then I'd have Evans in there.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:02 pm

Tigers Team:

Ayerza, Thacker, Cole, Barrow, Kitch, Fitz, BOC, Locky, Youngs, Williams, Niki, Manu, Betham, TV, Tait (c)

Leo, Genge, Logo, Slater, Evans, Kitto, Bell, Thompstone

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:03 pm

Great to see Tigers backing youth in Evans and Genge both def have earnt their places.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:07 pm

No Croft and no Fonua is a big call. Glad to see then backing the kid Evans who has been playing out of his skin since getting his opportunity in the first team. Feel a bit sorry for Balmain who has been solid for most of the season and who also had a very good game at Bath (good finish for the try).

Kitto and Bell don't inspire much confidence off the bench though.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:08 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Kitto and Bell don't inspire much confidence off the bench though.

Sadly sometimes you have to rely on 3rd choice players in key positions.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:10 pm

Saracens team to face Leicester Tigers

15 Alex Goode (207*)
14 Chris Ashton (97)
13 Duncan Taylor (90)
12 Brad Barritt (c) (169)
11 Chris Wyles (206)
10 Owen Farrell (133)
9 Richard Wigglesworth (153)
1 Mako Vunipola (98)
2 Schalk Brits (169)
3 Petrus Du Plessis (129)
4 Maro Itoje (50)
5 George Kruis (122)
6 Michael Rhodes (25)
7 Will Fraser (77)
8 Billy Vunipola (58)

Replacements

16 Jamie George (147)
17 Richard Barrington (80)
18 Juan Figallo (32)
19 Jim Hamilton (46)
20 Jackson Wray (141)
21 Neil De Kock (254)
22 Charlie Hodgson (129)
23 Marcelo Bosch (65)


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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Kitto and Bell don't inspire much confidence off the bench though.

Sadly sometimes you have to rely on 3rd choice players in key positions.

Yep not much ready alternatives.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:11 pm

So glad George is on the bench.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 20 May 2016, 12:46 pm

Sarries have gone big and aggressive. Only one open side in the 23 vs our 3. Could be interesting.

Really interested to see how this one plays out. Logic should be that Sarries smash us off the park but we've gone with a mobile team and a pack that should still deliver at the set piece. Looking forward to it.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by king_carlos on Fri 20 May 2016, 1:38 pm

LondonTiger wrote:So glad George is on the bench.

My immediate thought as well. This season Brits has been weak as a shover and rarely capable of striking for the ball. Thacker can at least put a clean strike in and Brits shouldn't put too much pressure through on him.

Mako vs Cole
Brits vs Thacker
PDP vs Ayerza

That's 3 really interesting scrum match ups.

I wouldn't be surprised to see George come on at half time or even earlier if Tigers are holding parity on the scoreboard.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 21 May 2016, 9:50 am

Looks like it will be very wet today. Shame - not as if Sarries need conditions in their favour.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 21 May 2016, 10:06 am

I was mightily miffed with cockers keeping Tuilagi on when it was obvious to all that he was carrying his knee. Typically stupid old school decision.

And with all the 'Slaters dodgy knees', Tuilagi gets thrown back in to a semi final on the efficient response of an artificial surface. Sod the player, he obviously owes the club when they stuck by him through his absences.........

Tuilagi is one player that really needs this england tour and opportunity to work with EJ. Lets just hope he makes it.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Fanster on Sat 21 May 2016, 11:24 am

Can't see anything but one outcome today, Leicester being strangled into submission...

Lets just hope there are more than 5/6k to watch it though!

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Sat 21 May 2016, 11:37 am

kingelderfield wrote:I was mightily miffed with cockers keeping Tuilagi on when it was obvious to all that he was carrying his knee. Typically stupid old school decision.

And with all the 'Slaters dodgy knees', Tuilagi gets thrown back in to a semi final on the efficient response of an artificial surface. Sod the player, he obviously owes the club when they stuck by him through his absences.........
 

Slater isn't starting as he has said he doesn't like the pitch, Manu hasn't said anything about 4g pitches so he might not have a issue at all with them. If Slater didn't personally have a issue with the pitch he would be starting IMO.

Nothing to do with Slaters dodgy knees now he is fully fit he just hates the pitch.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 21 May 2016, 11:40 am

Welly, knee injuries like that are never fully healed.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by Welly on Sat 21 May 2016, 11:41 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Welly, knee injuries like that are never fully healed.

Actually they can.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by nathan on Sat 21 May 2016, 11:56 am

What are folks predictions?

I think Sarries will hammer us or we'll keep it close till the end and lose by 3

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by nathan on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:30 pm

first time for Manu on a plastic pitch - just in time to get injured for England

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by nathan on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:33 pm

surely a knock on?

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by nathan on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:39 pm

surely a forward pass in the run up to that?

This game reminds of the 2010 final

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:45 pm

Typically the TMO doesn't come in for the nasty choke that should have seen Rhodes binned. Why are high tackles allowed if you're holding the player up.

Lovely attacking play from Sarries. Unsure how I feel about our disallowed try.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:48 pm

How many high tackles on our backs to be allowed. We make a break and the covering Sarries are going shoulder high on the chest and wrapping round the neck for the drag to the floor. Stops the offload but it isn't legal.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by nathan on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:49 pm

going to be a game where JP gives nothing, how long did he need to shout Sarries release as he continued to hold on

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:51 pm

nathan wrote:going to be a game where JP gives nothing, how long did he need to shout Sarries release as he continued to hold on

The only penalty he's given so far was to disallow our try.

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Re: Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

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