What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

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What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 8:24 am

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Well, the title says it all really. What a pathetic, embarrassing finish to the PRO12 it was for the Welsh regions. I am livid, as a Welsh rugby fan I am bouncing, and it just goes to show how right I am when I talk about the attitudes towards the game that the regions take. What does it matter to the regions that they got beaten on the weekend ? Nothing, that's what, they do not have to worry.

Ospreys knew what they needed to do and the were shamed in their own back yard. If I were a paying customer on Saturday I would have been demanding my money back. Scarlets were the same, they just gave up in the second half, and the less said about Dragons the better. Where was the pride ? 

I live in hope that next season will be better, Welsh domestic rugby is in a dark place at the moment, how any fans of the regions can come on here and defend their teams showing over this season is beyond me. No doubt I will get attacked from every quarter on here by the likes of Risca, Stone motif, mikey dragon, PhillBB, Scarletspiderman, but how can they argue ? It's no wonder that the amount of fans going to watch our regions are not as good as elsewhere, it's because of the crap being served up infront of them week in week out, who would want to keep paying for it ?

But what does it matter, the regions will still get the same funding next year, they will still get the same money from Europe, nothing will change for them, so why should they change ?

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:27 pm

The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:30 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:38 pm

True Raven wrote:
Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

The last one being when?
I think the point is that Ospreys previously had teams capable of much more. They had the bulk of the Wales team as well as an All Black back-row at one point. That team got soundly beaten by Munster, Tigers as well as others. I would say that is inexcusable.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by marty2086 on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:43 pm

offload wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
offload wrote:  It pains me to say it, but every single game in the Aviva produces better quality than the Pro 12 can throw up.  

So you have watched every single AP and Pro 12 and every single AP is better?

What a ridiculous statement, different people have different tastes and results colour opinion. I've watched quite a few AP games that have been dire, the LI and Worcester game the other week was pretty poor with flashes of excitement towards the end but ultimately was a poor quality game

Perhaps you've taken me a wee bit literally.
No doubt the Pro 12 is just about to take off...... again. Hug  None so blind that will not see.

Given some of the claims made by some on here its not hard to believe that some would claim that every AP game is better than any Pro 12 game

I suppose it depends on what you mean by take off, the league is growing year on year now

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:52 pm

True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

I do. With some difficulty given how long ago those four titles were now.

You do realise they've never made it beyond a European QF??? And that rarely enough in itself? I believe they're the only region never to make a semi. Bizarre, given they've had arguably the strongest squad in the past.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:55 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

The last one being when?
I think the point is that Ospreys previously had teams capable of much more. They had the bulk of the Wales team as well as an All Black back-row at one point. That team got soundly beaten by Munster, Tigers as well as others. I would say that is inexcusable.

In 2012 but I'm assuming Knowsit is on about the squad that included the Jones props, shane Williams e.t.c which coincided with us winning four league titles. Having won the most titles in the leagues history is not an inexcusible return.  The two biggest disappointments in Europe were Saracens and Biarritz for sure but theres no shame in losing at Welford Road or Munster against teams that have reached the final of the competition and were stronger than you

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:57 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

I do. With some difficulty given how long ago those four titles were now.

You do realise they've never made it beyond a European QF??? And that rarely enough in itself? I believe they're the only region never to make a semi. Bizarre, given they've had arguably the strongest squad in the past.

So you're another one with unrealistic expectations that assumes the Ospreys should win the league every season?

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 09 May 2016, 1:58 pm

True Raven wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

The last one being when?
I think the point is that Ospreys previously had teams capable of much more. They had the bulk of the Wales team as well as an All Black back-row at one point. That team got soundly beaten by Munster, Tigers as well as others. I would say that is inexcusable.

In 2012 but I'm assuming Knowsit is on about the squad that included the Jones props, shane Williams e.t.c which coincided with us winning four league titles.  Having won the most titles in the leagues history is not an inexcusible return.  The two biggest disappointments in Europe were Saracens and Biarritz for sure but theres no shame in losing at Welford Road or Munster against teams that have reached the final of the competition and were stronger than you

I remember looking at the team sheets at the time, I didn't think Munster or Leicester had a much stronger team. They certainly played a lot better though, I remember that QF where Munster were just dominant in every single aspect - was Lyn still at the helm then or was it that genius Holley? At the time I expected much better, but Ospreys didn't and still do not recruit good enough coaches.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 2:02 pm

True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

I do. With some difficulty given how long ago those four titles were now.

You do realise they've never made it beyond a European QF??? And that rarely enough in itself? I believe they're the only region never to make a semi. Bizarre, given they've had arguably the strongest squad in the past.

So you're another one with unrealistic expectations that assumes the Ospreys should win the league every season?

I didn't say they should win every season. Are you Rowan in disguise? Your deliberate misquoting seems oddly familiar.

Expecting a side that used to be full of GS winners to do better than the Euro QF's is not unrealistic. Unless you're the least ambitious person in the country.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 2:09 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

I do. With some difficulty given how long ago those four titles were now.

You do realise they've never made it beyond a European QF??? And that rarely enough in itself? I believe they're the only region never to make a semi. Bizarre, given they've had arguably the strongest squad in the past.

So you're another one with unrealistic expectations that assumes the Ospreys should win the league every season?

I didn't say they should win every season. Are you Rowan in disguise? Your deliberate misquoting seems oddly familiar.

Expecting a side that used to be full of GS winners to do better than the Euro QF's is not unrealistic. Unless you're the least ambitious person in the country.

No idea who Rowan is.

So branding the 'Ospreys return' as inexcusible considering they are the most successful team in league history (with Leinster) what are your expectations of them??

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Kingshu on Mon 09 May 2016, 2:12 pm

Haven't read it all and ok the season wasn't the best for the regions, but I don't think its all doom and gloom

Cardiff Blues - my dark horses for next year,
Home form has been good only losing 3 games, away form wasn't great and at the start of the season played a number of games away, they looked to be out of the running and they prob lost a bit of confidence, an I think they maybe lost a few they could have won if some of the games at the start of the year were at home.
Scored the second most tries in the league, as well.
Think the recruitment means a better squad for next year, if they can improve defence and away record they will be right up there.

Scarlets - topped the table for large parts of the season. Only lost 3 at home, away form was joint 2nd best in the league. Think it was the 18 yellow cards that ruined this season for them, but they are normally high up in the fair play league and I expect better discipline next year.
Think maybe squad depth played a part in the latter half of the season as well.
But some better discipline and some good recruitment and I think Scarlets fans will be looking forward to next year.

Ospreys - with world cup call ups, they started the season terribly and had to much ground to make up. Lost first 5 out of 6 games, after this lost 5 in 16.
Joint second best away record.
Normally the top region, have a good squad and I expect normal service to resume next season.

Dragons - ok there is no getting away from it being a poor season, but 10 LBP from the 18 losses show that there weren't to far of the pace in a lot of the games.
Think if next season they can improve on this at home turning the tight losses into narrow wins, Dragons fans will be happy.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 2:30 pm

True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

I do. With some difficulty given how long ago those four titles were now.

You do realise they've never made it beyond a European QF??? And that rarely enough in itself? I believe they're the only region never to make a semi. Bizarre, given they've had arguably the strongest squad in the past.

So you're another one with unrealistic expectations that assumes the Ospreys should win the league every season?

I didn't say they should win every season. Are you Rowan in disguise? Your deliberate misquoting seems oddly familiar.

Expecting a side that used to be full of GS winners to do better than the Euro QF's is not unrealistic. Unless you're the least ambitious person in the country.

No idea who Rowan is.

So branding the 'Ospreys return' as inexcusible considering they are the most successful team in league history (with Leinster)  what are your expectations of them??

So you brand league success which hasn't been there for four years as the sole requirement for a side to be successful? You don't mind watching the regions falling over at the first hurdle in Europe? Every single year?

I've already cited my expectations. Namely doing better in Europe than the very occasional leap beyond the group. Are you saying the QF's are the pinnacle of your own expectations for a side that used to contain Shane Williams, Lee Byrne, Tommy Bowe, Jerry Collins, Marty Holah, Adam Jones and many other big names? A side who could edge then-champs Leinster at the RDS when they switched it on but never found this form at the level other clubs take more seriously.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 2:38 pm

No I haven't enjoyed them not gaining European success but then ulster haven't won it since 99, leciester since 02, Clermont and Saracens have never won it yet I wouldn't call their achievements over the last ten years as inexcusable either which you decided to label the ospreys achievements

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by offload on Mon 09 May 2016, 2:52 pm

True Raven wrote:No I haven't enjoyed them not gaining European success but then ulster haven't won it since 99, leciester since 02, Clermont and Saracens have never won it yet I wouldn't call their achievements over the last ten years as inexcusable either which you decided to label the ospreys achievements

In 20 years only two Welsh sides have even contested a European final in either the Champions or Challenge cup - Cardiff twice and Pontypridd. I'd say that overall that's a pretty poor performance from our domestic game.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by profitius on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:04 pm

offload wrote:
True Raven wrote:No I haven't enjoyed them not gaining European success but then ulster haven't won it since 99, leciester since 02, Clermont and Saracens have never won it yet I wouldn't call their achievements over the last ten years as inexcusable either which you decided to label the ospreys achievements

In 20 years only two Welsh sides have even contested a European final in either the Champions or Challenge cup - Cardiff twice and Pontypridd.  I'd say that overall that's a pretty poor performance from our domestic game.


No really. Just poor from the Ospreys. I do have sympathy for them though because having internationals alone doesn't mean they'll automatically be successful. There are world cups, Lions tours, Gatland ordered rest periods etc.


Another problem for the regions are Wales internationals who couldn't be arsed. Sam Warburton plays for Wales, Same WHOburton plays (the odd time) for Cardiff.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:28 pm

True Raven wrote:No I haven't enjoyed them not gaining European success but then ulster haven't won it since 99, leciester since 02, Clermont and Saracens have never won it yet I wouldn't call their achievements over the last ten years as inexcusable either which you decided to label the ospreys achievements

This is just my opinion but I'd rather a side be able to boast of having won it long ago than having never won it. The Leicester team that won it twice on the trot is generally seen as among the best club sides in the history of European comp. If the Ospreys had achieved even half that success I wouldn't give them such a hard time but as it stands they've never so much as grazed a cup final, let alone won the thing.

Even Clermont and Saracens have been there or there abouts. Clermont made the final last year. Saracens have made two of the last three. And the O's can currently only dream of being in a similar position to the latter (reigning AP champs and currently competing in both the play-offs and the Euro final).

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:33 pm

Ospreys gave away a maximum of 5pts in every away game they played in Europe, but thats ok because they scored two bonus points in two away games in France. All they had to do to qualify from their group was to not allow Exeter a winning BP at Sandy Park, but what happens ? Ospreys ship five tries. I do not even want to talk about Scarlets European endeavours this season. 

In the top European competition the Welsh sides are cannon fodder away from home, just like the Italians.

It seems as though, even when our teams know what they need to do, they just go out with a whimper. There is no fight, no pride, no passion, yet put a Welsh jersey on these players, wammo, all these qualities rise to the surface. The players are there, but the attitudes are not.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:35 pm

This is what irritates me though is that you state the ospreys can only dream of being Saracens who are reigning ap champs and in the playoffs (domestic and euro) yet we have won titles and last year were in the playoffs (a knock on from the final) yet people are so quick to forget and be all doom and gloom


Last edited by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:36 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Ospreys gave away a maximum of 5pts in every away game they played in Europe, but thats ok because they scored two bonus points in two away games in France.

Who said that was okay?

LordDowlais wrote:All they had to do to qualify from their group was to not allow Exeter a winning BP at Sandy Park

Yeah, I mean it was only Exeter...

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:38 pm

True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:The only silverware the regions could compete for is the World Bottling Series. Ospreys have had a fairly broad roster of quality players over the years, from within and without Wales. The return we've seen on this quality is simply inexcusable. To collapse in their own yard as often as they do is truly pathetic to behold.

Scarlets and Blues are no better save that they haven't had the over-bloated reputation of the Ospreys. Both fold so meekly and with so little fight given the standard of player they have. This season Scarlets won their first 7 or 8 games I believe and then went into free-fall. Inconsistency embodied. And to describe their Euro campaign this season and in the past as 'embarrassing' would be a enormous understatement.

They all play like sides that don't even have identities.

Ummmm you do realise the Ospreys have won four league titles??

I do. With some difficulty given how long ago those four titles were now.

You do realise they've never made it beyond a European QF??? And that rarely enough in itself? I believe they're the only region never to make a semi. Bizarre, given they've had arguably the strongest squad in the past.

So you're another one with unrealistic expectations that assumes the Ospreys should win the league every season?

I didn't say they should win every season. Are you Rowan in disguise? Your deliberate misquoting seems oddly familiar.

Expecting a side that used to be full of GS winners to do better than the Euro QF's is not unrealistic. Unless you're the least ambitious person in the country.

No idea who Rowan is.

So branding the 'Ospreys return' as inexcusible considering they are the most successful team in league history (with Leinster)  what are your expectations of them??

It's quite misleaeding to keep mentioning yourself with Leinster... The performances from the Ospreys team we're talking about were unacceptable. FYI, Ulster and Leicester have been in finals and numerous QF/SF since winning it.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:42 pm

LordDowlais wrote:In the top European competition the Welsh sides are cannon fodder away from home, just like the Italians.

Its ok, next season we only have one side in the top flight just like the Italians.


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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:45 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who said that was okay?

Well True raven seems to be defending them to the hilt, albeit very admirably, but he seems to be taking it a little personally. It's not an attack on him, it's an attack on the Welsh regions, and their feeble roll over and die attitude when it looks as though things are going to get tough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yeah, I mean it was only Exeter...

A team containing the following players,Dan Biggar, Brendon Leonard, Paul James, Scott Baldwin, Alun Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric should not be giving away 5 tries. There are five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:45 pm

I still have fond memories of the Scarlets mounting a stunning comeback in Toulouse going back 9-10 yrs ago. Went on to knock out reigning champions Munster in the quarters before falling to Leicester in the semis.

The Blues also made the semis under Dai Young (who has simply not been well replaced since he went to Wasps) and came just about as close as you can to a final without actually getting there (the infamous penalty shootout).

They may not have won it then either but at least they were a damn sight more competitive then than now. Comparing that to, say, the Scarlets' total capitulation this season makes me cringe.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by George Carlin on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:50 pm

Is this one of these 'crises' which is usually a prelude to Wales winning the 6 Nations the following year? Headscratch

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who said that was okay?

Well True raven seems to be defending them to the hilt, albeit very admirably, but he seems to be taking it a little personally. It's not an attack on him, it's an attack on the Welsh regions, and their feeble roll over and die attitude when it looks as though things are going to get tough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yeah, I mean it was only Exeter...

A team containing the following players,Dan Biggar, Brendon Leonard, Paul James, Scott Baldwin, Alun Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric should not be giving away 5 tries. There are five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list.

I don't take it personal but putting down ospreys domestic achievements because they haven't won in Europe annoys me just as much when I hear people putting down Wales six nations achievements because they don't compete with the southern hemisphere teams

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:54 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who said that was okay?

Well True raven seems to be defending them to the hilt, albeit very admirably, but he seems to be taking it a little personally. It's not an attack on him, it's an attack on the Welsh regions, and their feeble roll over and die attitude when it looks as though things are going to get tough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yeah, I mean it was only Exeter...

A team containing the following players,Dan Biggar, Brendon Leonard, Paul James, Scott Baldwin, Alun Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric should not be giving away 5 tries. There are five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list.

I'm well aware that there's five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list, but thanks for enlarging the font for me. Unfortunately there were also quite a few good-to-middling players in that side too, something common to all the regions, and when they come up against well-drilled sides like Exeter, at home, then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they might concede five tries.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:55 pm

George Carlin wrote:Is this one of these 'crises' which is usually a prelude to Wales winning the 6 Nations the following year? Headscratch


No it's one of those crisis's where the regions have been an embarrassment for most of the season and probably will be next season as well.

P.S, I hope I am wrong with the second part of my sentence.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by wayne on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:58 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
offload wrote:Nothing new - the regional product has been dire for years and getting worse.

This.100%. clap clap

RiscaGame wrote:Answer the question. Who defends their teams?

PhillBB, Cardif Dave, TrueRaven to name a few. If I here how better Cardiff Blues are doing under Danny Wilson this season I will explode, yep they are doing so much better, they have finished one place higher in the league.
OI LORD, WHY AIN'T I ON THAT LIST

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:58 pm

True Raven wrote:This is what irritates me though is that you state the ospreys can only dream of being Saracens who are reigning ap champs and in the playoffs (domestic and euro) yet we have won titles and last year were in the playoffs (a knock on from the final) yet people are so quick to forget and be all doom and gloom

And it annoys me slightly when people think they can lean on past glories to apologise for the current state of a given side. I imagine I gave the Ospreys all the congrats they deserved on the past occasions they won the Celtic/Magners League/RaboDirect Pro 12 as they were undeniably good for those achievements but I'd never feel inclined to lean on those achievements to justify the absolute shoddy performances they've churned out this season.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 3:58 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who said that was okay?

Well True raven seems to be defending them to the hilt, albeit very admirably, but he seems to be taking it a little personally. It's not an attack on him, it's an attack on the Welsh regions, and their feeble roll over and die attitude when it looks as though things are going to get tough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yeah, I mean it was only Exeter...

A team containing the following players,Dan Biggar, Brendon Leonard, Paul James, Scott Baldwin, Alun Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric should not be giving away 5 tries. There are five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list.

I'm well aware that there's five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list, but thanks for enlarging the font for me. Unfortunately there were also quite a few good-to-middling players in that side too, something common to all the regions, and when they come up against well-drilled sides like Exeter, at home, then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they might concede five tries.


Laugh  I don't know why my fonts changed.

Any sides with these players should never capitulate like they did, Ospreys have gone backwards this season, I am glad you have agreed that there is something common to all our regions, and that is they all under achieve. OK

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:00 pm

wayne wrote:OI LORD, WHY AIN'T I ON THAT LIST

Because you are not like the other I have mentioned. OK


Last edited by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:00 pm

I'm not sure I'd hold up Scott Baldwin as such a towering figure, Dowlais. And what I'm saying is that it's undeniable that each of the regions have in their first XVs players that just aren't that good. Now, if we had great coaches, they could be moulded into very good sides (see Exeter again), but at least two of our regions don't have great coaches.

I'm sorry for bringing up these inconvenient truths, but if you have (some) mediocre players and mediocre coaches, then - newsflash - you're not going to win trophies.


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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:02 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not sure I'd hold up Scott Baldwin as such a towering figure, Dowlais.
 
He is currently the man in possession of the Welsh jersey isn't he ? OK

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:03 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
True Raven wrote:This is what irritates me though is that you state the ospreys can only dream of being Saracens who are reigning ap champs and in the playoffs (domestic and euro) yet we have won titles and last year were in the playoffs (a knock on from the final) yet people are so quick to forget and be all doom and gloom

And it annoys me slightly when people think they can lean on past glories to apologise for the current state of a given side. I imagine I gave the Ospreys all the congrats they deserved on the past occasions they won the Celtic/Magners League/RaboDirect Pro 12 as they were undeniably good for those achievements but I'd never feel inclined to lean on those achievements to justify the absolute shoddy performances they've churned out this season.

Do you not think that there may be certain circumstances which have affected this season??

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not sure I'd hold up Scott Baldwin as such a towering figure, Dowlais.
 
He is currently the man in possession of the Welsh jersey isn't he ? OK

Only since Hibbard defied Gatland's will and went to Gloucester Whistle

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not sure I'd hold up Scott Baldwin as such a towering figure, Dowlais.
 
He is currently the man in possession of the Welsh jersey isn't he ? OK

Yes he is, presumably because Ken Owens beat Robin McBryde at poker or something. OK

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:05 pm

True Raven wrote:Do you not think that there may be certain circumstances which have affected this season??

What ? The WC ? 

Well I'm glad no other teams in our league or Europe were affected by this, oh wait......

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:06 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yes he is, presumably because Ken Owens beat Robin McBryde at poker or something. 

Well, Ken Owens plays for another Welsh region, how did their European season go ?

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:Do you not think that there may be certain circumstances which have affected this season??

What ? The WC ? 

Well I'm glad no other teams in our league or Europe were affected by this, oh wait......

The Ospreys are not filthy rich so cannot afford to have a squad full of experienced players so rely on having to play youngsters when the internationals are away such as nicky smith, Sam Parry, Rory Thornton, olly cracknell, Sam Underhill, Sam Davies who clearly are still developing. Have a look at our results with our internationals and without them and tell me if the call ups to the welsh team hasn't affected our squad

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by BamBam on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:13 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who said that was okay?

Well True raven seems to be defending them to the hilt, albeit very admirably, but he seems to be taking it a little personally. It's not an attack on him, it's an attack on the Welsh regions, and their feeble roll over and die attitude when it looks as though things are going to get tough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yeah, I mean it was only Exeter...

A team containing the following players,Dan Biggar, Brendon Leonard, Paul James, Scott Baldwin, Alun Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric should not be giving away 5 tries. There are five Welsh internationals and an All Black in that list.

Imagine what your reaction would be had a New Zealand side full of actual good players conceded 5 tries in a game ..

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:16 pm

True Raven wrote:The Ospreys are not filthy rich so cannot afford to have a squad full of experienced players so rely on having to play youngsters when the internationals are away such as nicky smith, Sam Parry, Rory Thornton, olly cracknell, Sam Underhill, Sam Davies who clearly are still developing. Have a look at our results with our internationals and without them and tell me if the call ups to the welsh team hasn't affected our squad


Leinster had 19 players called up for the WC, they also had a raft of injuries at the same time, but they still managed to finish top of the league. Come on mun, I know you love Ospreys but please, try and see the wood for the trees, Ospreys have a good side, it just does not matter where they finish in the league as it will not really affect things, the people in charge of them know this. 

There is no way they should have lost that game on Saturday in the manner they did, and it just reinforces what people say about our regions, and it is embarrassing.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yes he is, presumably because Ken Owens beat Robin McBryde at poker or something. 

Well, Ken Owens plays for another Welsh region, how did their European season go ?

Poorly, as you know. He's still better than Scott Baldwin. But instead of picking out the Test players, how about you look at the non-Test players we have in each regional first XV. They're not great players. Ally that with not-great coaches and (no offence) you're a bit stupid if you expect them to win trophies.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by True Raven on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:The Ospreys are not filthy rich so cannot afford to have a squad full of experienced players so rely on having to play youngsters when the internationals are away such as nicky smith, Sam Parry, Rory Thornton, olly cracknell, Sam Underhill, Sam Davies who clearly are still developing. Have a look at our results with our internationals and without them and tell me if the call ups to the welsh team hasn't affected our squad


Leinster had 19 players called up for the WC, they also had a raft of injuries at the same time, but they still managed to finish top of the league. Come on mun, I know you love Ospreys but please, try and see the wood for the trees, Ospreys have a good side, it just does not matter where they finish in the league as it will not really affect things, the people in charge of them know this. 

There is no way they should have lost that game on Saturday in the manner they did, and it just reinforces what people say about our regions, and it is embarrassing.

People should stop then banging on about the quality of players at the ospreys disposal when they've spent half the season with wales!

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:23 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Poorly, as you know. He's still better than Scott Baldwin. But instead of picking out the Test players, how about you look at the non-Test players we have in each regional first XV. They're not great players. Ally that with not-great coaches and (no offence) you're a bit stupid if you expect them to win trophies.


Who said anything about them winning trophies ?

I am saying they should not be rolling over and giving away maximum points away from home in every game they play in Europe. I do not expect trophies, I expect them to be at least competitive.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by wayne on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:26 pm

Are most Osprey supporters happy how not only last Saturday but the whole season has gone. Obviously NOT, Lord you have brought up the 5 tries against us on many threads, we were the first team IIRC to take 2 bonus points in CA in many years (around 10), as far as Europe is concerned if anybody had told me pre competition that we would be in the position we were in on the final day, I would have bit your hand off to take it, yes we were poor that day in Sandy Park, but it was a good series of games as far as I was concerned and we hit WELL above our weight.

Mikey you mentioned that our coaches have not been up to scratch, (not your exact words but similar), well hopefully that is about to change if what I've been told and what another poster on our Forum has also heard from another source is true, both sources are decent people, (don't ask who as i will not betray a confidence), but the name is good rugby stock who has been around for 10 years or more coaching wise and many more as a player.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:38 pm

wayne wrote:well hopefully that is about to change if what I've been told and what another poster on our Forum has also heard from another source is true, both sources are decent people, (don't ask who as i will not betray a confidence), but the name is good rugby stock who has been around for 10 years or more coaching wise and many more as a player.


Well, that not only sounds promising, but bloody refreshing as well. I only hope this person is not Scott Johnson. Laugh

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Poorly, as you know. He's still better than Scott Baldwin. But instead of picking out the Test players, how about you look at the non-Test players we have in each regional first XV. They're not great players. Ally that with not-great coaches and (no offence) you're a bit stupid if you expect them to win trophies.


Who said anything about them winning trophies ?

I am saying they should not be rolling over and giving away maximum points away from home in every game they play in Europe. I do not expect trophies, I expect them to be at least competitive.

We'd all like the regions to be more competitive, but unfortunately when you come up against sides that have a) better players, and b) better coaches, you're going to struggle. That's not being defeatist, it's being realistic - and if you were more realistic, your blood pressure would be lower.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 4:52 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We'd all like the regions to be more competitive, but unfortunately when you come up against sides that have a) better players, and b) better coaches, you're going to struggle. That's not being defeatist, it's being realistic - and if you were more realistic, your blood pressure would be lower.


LP, if you follow what I am typing closely then you will see, that I am not having a go at the players, but I am having a go at how the regions are run. They are shambolic, I do not think that the players at the regions are any worse than other teams in our league, infact I think we have some of the better players. Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, Liam Williams, Hadley Parks, Rynard Landman to name just a few, would you say any of Connachts players are better than what the Welsh regions have ? Or would you say they are of equal ability ? I do not think that Munster's squad is any better than Ospreys or Scarlets. It may be bigger, but better ? I doubt it. 

For me, I get the impression, that it is easier for the regions to not turn it on, it is far easier for them to just go through the motions, none of these players seem to sweat the blood for the regions that they do for Wales. The players are there, yes of course they are, but they are being let down by the people who are running the show.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 May 2016, 5:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We'd all like the regions to be more competitive, but unfortunately when you come up against sides that have a) better players, and b) better coaches, you're going to struggle. That's not being defeatist, it's being realistic - and if you were more realistic, your blood pressure would be lower.


LP, if you follow what I am typing closely then you will see, that I am not having a go at the players, but I am having a go at how the regions are run. They are shambolic, I do not think that the players at the regions are any worse than other teams in our league, infact I think we have some of the better players. Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, Liam Williams, Hadley Parks, Rynard Landman to name just a few, would you say any of Connachts players are better than what the Welsh regions have ? Or would you say they are of equal ability ? I do not think that Munster's squad is any better than Ospreys or Scarlets. It may be bigger, but better ? I doubt it.

There you go again, looking at the good players we have and ignoring that they're outnumbered by mediocre players. Mediocre players + mediocre coaches = mediocre teams.

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 09 May 2016, 5:06 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Now there's only so much a good coach can do with a mediocre player - but some of the regions don't even have good coaches. That's the truth of it.

LP, sometimes I get the impression that you are just coming on here to argue with me for the sake of it.  Rolling Eyes

Mediocre players and crap coaches, are part of the reason for us having under achieving regions, the other part is having owners who cannot run a p!ss up in a brewery.

You are implying that you agree with this, however you are turning it into an argument against me, if I frustrate you that much, please just put me on ignore/foe. Hug

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Re: What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

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