Merthyr, Swansea, Bargoed, RGC1404 all promoted. Pontypool miss out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/welsh-championship/table

5 teams with the required A licence, 4 promotion spots available, with the 5 teams in the top 5 places, and:



RGC 1404 have now been overtaken by Bargoed with only a few games to play.  The top 4 teams are going to be promoted with the new expanded Premiership to be ring-fenced until the end of the 2018/19 season.  To put it mildly IF RGC don't make it into the top 4, it's going to throw a hell of a spanner into the works of the WRU's plans to promote the game in North Wales.  

Bargoed were simply not supposed to be part of the plan.  Pontypool and Swansea were supposed to be eased back up to the top of Welsh club rugby.  RGC were supposed to promote the game in North Wales with the long term view of being Wales 5th region, and Merthyr were supposed to be the Blues 3rd development team.  Bargoed nip in at the last minute by securing their A license and risk messing up carefully laid plans!

Dosn't look good but thems the breaks. Good for Bargoed if they do make it. I do want to see the game developed in North Wales but if the player base is not ready then the player base is not ready.

I worry that the WRU will do something shady, like revoke an A licence or deduct a couple of points for a player failing a drug test. It's not over yet but losing to Tata Steel may have really cost RGC. Both teams still have Pooler and Swansea to go. Will be a tight finish no doubt.

Bargoed seem to have got some players back, that I think left when promotion seemed unobtainable? They should of course be up in the Premiership this season, bar the Grade A hurdle.

I saw Andrew Coombs' brother Ross bemoaning Pontypool having Geraint O'Driscoll on permit the other day and then I believe he and Chris Kirwan (argus) also said that they expect RGC to be given a place somehow, even if it's a 17 team Prem.

Shifty wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/welsh-championship/table

5 teams with the required A licence, 4 promotion spots available, with the 5 teams in the top 5 places, and:



RGC 1404 have now been overtaken by Bargoed with only a few games to play.  The top 4 teams are going to be promoted with the new expanded Premiership to be ring-fenced until the end of the 2018/19 season.  To put it mildly IF RGC don't make it into the top 4, it's going to throw a hell of a spanner into the works of the WRU's plans to promote the game in North Wales.  

Bargoed were simply not supposed to be part of the plan.  Pontypool and Swansea were supposed to be eased back up to the top of Welsh club rugby.  RGC were supposed to promote the game in North Wales with the long term view of being Wales 5th region, and Merthyr were supposed to be the Blues 3rd development team.  Bargoed nip in at the last minute by securing their A license and risk messing up carefully laid plans!

Love to see a link to these 'plans'

Merthyr RFC went up to North Wales and put over 60pts on RGC, Merthyr went to Bargoed and had their @rses shown to them. In my mind there is only one team who deserves to go up between Bargied and RGC, although I think it will beep Pontypool who lose out.

The WRU will probably fund or find a way of putting some players from the regions up in North Wales so that RGC will have a strong finish and end up third.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36007330

Swansea and Merthyr are promoted. Bargoed have opened up a 4 point gap.

1 Merthyr 23 21 0 2 1017 249 19 103
2 Swansea 24 21 1 2 800 368 17 103
3 Pontypool 23 18 1 4 734 380 14 88
4 Bargoed 22 16 1 5 633 311 16 82
5 RGC1404 22 15 0 7 753 411 18 78

If the WRU are hellbent on getting RGC into the prem then why on earth would they leave it open to league fortunes. Either state officially that they will be a prem team next year with an A licence regardless of league showing as a way of developing N Wales rugby and then just stick them on the prem, or come out and say that they will get there eventually when they are ready and not force them up when they're not good enough.

I smell another botch.

Good for Bargoed. RGC shouldn't be going up then.

I really don't want RGC to go up, as I am interested to see what happens. I saw Robin Davey wonder whether they might now relegate Neath. I can't see any way they can promote them if they don't make it on their own though. Would get very messy.

Difficult one. Personally I don't think a 16 team welsh premiership will improve the standard of play required for it to be a breeding ground for young talent.

I also don't believe ringfencing works.

And I do think it is in the interest of the game in Wales for the WRU to do all it can to promote and develop the game in North Wales. But then, teams should be there on merit. If there was no ringfencing, there would be no issue?

GavinDragon wrote:Difficult one. Personally I don't think a 16 team welsh premiership will improve the standard of play required for it to be a breeding ground for young talent

Of course it doesn't. But Stan Thomas is a good mates Gareth Davies. It was a good way of guaranteeing Merthyr a place

GavinDragon wrote:I also don't believe ringfencing works.

The whole of Welsh rugby is ringfenced mate. If the Pro 12 had relegation...the Dragons would have been kicked out long ago

GavinDragon wrote:And I do think it is in the interest of the game in Wales for the WRU to do all it can to promote and develop the game in North Wales.

Agreed. Hopefully they do a better job of it than the mighty West Wales/North Wales/North London Scarlets

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Swansea-chairman-calls-salary-cap-Whites-return/story-29085374-detail/story.html#ixzz45ReWj08D

I doubt a salary cap is not going to happen

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

Not a bad article but he's wrong on one point....the regions are not branded the best way. The only team who actually decided to brand their region away from the old clubs outsells the others in merchandise and posted a profit this year, much better than the million pound loss the supposed globally known scarlets posted whereas in reality the only people that care about the scarlets are based around Llanelli and were fans pre regionalisation.

Don't be silly. Dropping the Llanelli bit like so totally confirmed the Scarlets as a region that appeals to all of West Wales

I will also say that I have no issue with Cardiff being a professional club. But why should they be allowed an allocation in the Pro12 and the Welsh Premiership if they are to be "stand alone"?

Steffan wrote:Don't be silly. Dropping the Llanelli bit like so totally confirmed the Scarlets as a region that appeals to all of West Wales

I will also say that I have no issue with Cardiff being a professional club. But why should they be allowed an allocation in the Pro12 and the Welsh Premiership if they are to be "stand alone"?

And the BIC.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:Don't be silly. Dropping the Llanelli bit like so totally confirmed the Scarlets as a region that appeals to all of West Wales

I will also say that I have no issue with Cardiff being a professional club. But why should they be allowed an allocation in the Pro12 and the Welsh Premiership if they are to be "stand alone"?

And the BIC.

Yeah that's is true. The district thingy sides that everyone raved about but no one actually cares anymore

True Raven wrote:Not a bad article but he's wrong on one point....the regions are not branded the best way.  The only team who actually decided to brand their region away from the old clubs outsells the others in merchandise and posted a profit this year, much better than the million pound loss the supposed globally known scarlets posted whereas in reality the only people that care about the scarlets are based around Llanelli and were fans pre regionalisation.  

a) Why is what is best for one best for the other three? and b) you posted a profit because of the signing on bonus from the new WRU agreement.

You cannot infer cause and effect from any of what you wrote above.

Steffan wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

That's what I love about you disenfranchised types. You want everything all fair and equal and that but you're the most closed minded people on the planet.

Stone Motif wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

That's what I love about you disenfranchised types. You want everything all fair and equal and that but you're the most closed minded people on the planet.

I wouldn't say I am disfranchised as I have a club to support. I do not suggest either that my club should be a pro side

Personally I would have liked an East Wales region to support as well as my club. That is just my preference though. Please tell me which part of that makes me closed minded?

Steffan wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

Yet he's written some absolute home truths about why Pontypridd doesn't have pro rugby, and why it never well. Get used to the disenfranchisement....oh I guess you already are!

mikey_dragon wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

Yet he's written some absolute home truths about why Pontypridd doesn't have pro rugby, and why it never well. Get used to the disenfranchisement....oh I guess you already are!

Oh here we go. You and your little gang gonna start your Ponty bashing again is it. Quite sad really. And it's hardly like you have a franchise to support anyway. Are you even from Newport?

And this time last year you were telling me I should support Cardiff as they are my region. Now you are saying that I am a disenfranchised supporter. Make up your mind

I'm not even sure how Ponty ended up being mentioned on a thread about Bargoed

Stone's weird obsession continues it seems

And I didn't suggest that anyone should be relegated from the Pro12. I mearly pointed out to Gavin the irony of saying that he doesn't like ringfencing when he in fact supports a team that is allowed season after season to be complete crap at the standard they perform

Will he even be supporting the Dragons next season if they drop Gwent from the name? I'll email the Viet Gwent...he has all the answers

Steffan wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

What it does do is point out the financial reality of the situation. But nothing is impossible and I don't see why, like the A license for entry to the premiership, there can't be clear standards set out for consideration to become a region/pro team.

Now in reality, is there someone with enough dough and will to bring another ground in Wales up to scratch with the necessary corporate facilities etc? Probably not. But it is the lack of transparency and the closed door which continues to frustrate people who are not already, nor probably ever will be, fans of the regions/pro teams in Wales.

Lets put a regional/pro team standard together which sets out exactly that any interested party would have to do in order to become one of the four pro teams/region. This standard would include minimum requirements for a business plan, grounds with commercial infrastructure, training faclities and a corporate structure which would guarantee that the entity would last the season.

When we have this, it is up to anyone interested with enough money to work towards it. If someone does, then they can play off against the worst of the four existing teams in any one season. Again, in reality they are unlikely to win that game as they would in effect need a squad of pro's. So the risk to the existing four is minimal and any dissafected entities have their standard to work towards.

GavinDragon wrote:Now in reality, is there someone with enough dough and will to bring another ground in Wales up to scratch with the necessary corporate facilities etc? Probably not. 

Yes there is. He is currently the owner of Merthyr RFC.

LordDowlais wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:Now in reality, is there someone with enough dough and will to bring another ground in Wales up to scratch with the necessary corporate facilities etc? Probably not. 

Yes there is. He is currently the owner of Merthyr RFC.

There is a difference between putting up half a million quid for a new plastic pitch (which in turn helps fund the club so has a return) and a few ex pro's and £6-£7m needed, per annum, to underwrite just the playing costs of professional rugby.

Meh, a 'reejun of over a million' and they haven't ever got a crowd of over 2k.

You can all take the p1ss, but trust me there is no smoke without fire, and if you think the richest man in Wales is going to stop at the Welsh prem then you all need to think again.

LordDowlais wrote:You can all take the p1ss, but trust me there is no smoke without fire, and if you think the richest man in Wales is going to stop at the Welsh prem then you all need to think again.

I am not taking the urine. The more money injected into Welsh rugby the better. And as Stanley has been quotes as saying, the ground improvements will be to the benefit of the community in Merthyr not just the rugby club. Can't fault it.

But, as I said above, I do wonder whether he wants to spend roughly 12 times what he is paying now to bring professional rugby to Merthyr?

Steffan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/the-cost-of-professional-rugby/

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but here seems seems as good a place as any to point out the stupidity of anyone who thinks a pro team can be relegated/relocated, courtesy of our sometime regular PhilBB.

Yeah it's a really good article...if you are a Cardiff fan and enjoy reading some condescending bullcrap

Yet he's written some absolute home truths about why Pontypridd doesn't have pro rugby, and why it never well. Get used to the disenfranchisement....oh I guess you already are!

Oh here we go. You and your little gang gonna start your Ponty bashing again is it. Quite sad really. And it's hardly like you have a franchise to support anyway. Are you even from Newport?

And this time last year you were telling me I should support Cardiff as they are my region. Now you are saying that I am a disenfranchised supporter. Make up your mind

Yes.

No I wasn't, and whether you choose to support or not support the Blues is your choice.

LordDowlais wrote:You can all take the p1ss, but trust me there is no smoke without fire, and if you think the richest man in Wales is going to stop at the Welsh prem then you all need to think again.

Michael Moritz? Douglas Perkins?? Sir Terry Matthews???

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:You can all take the p1ss, but trust me there is no smoke without fire, and if you think the richest man in Wales is going to stop at the Welsh prem then you all need to think again.

Michael Moritz?  Douglas Perkins??  Sir Terry Matthews???

IN WALES, not Welsh people.  

Stan Thomas still has a residence in Merthyr.

GavinDragon wrote:

I am not taking the urine. The more money injected into Welsh rugby the better. And as Stanley has been quotes as saying, the ground improvements will be to the benefit of the community in Merthyr not just the rugby club. Can't fault it.

Sardis Road to get a 4G pitch as well payed for my RCT. These will benefit the community (although I will believe it when I see it with the one at Sardis). Regardless of what league they are in it is good that clubs like Merthyr and Ponty are getting ground upgrades. I still think Merthyr have bigger plans though. They have money and a whole catchment area to themselves

Steffan wrote: I still think Merthyr have bigger plans though. They have money and a whole catchment area to themselves

You are right there. If Llanelli can do it with half the population of Merthyr then why not ?

Just for the record, a member of the Merthyr RFC club, I am not naming names, but he does all their marketing has asked me if I would like to advertise on the Wern next season. I have known this person for years and he has offered me a good deal.

LordDowlais wrote:A member of the Merthyr RFC club, I am not naming names, but he does all their marketing has asked me if I would like to advertise on the Wern next season. I have known this person for years and he has offered me a good deal.

What does that have to do with anything?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:A member of the Merthyr RFC club, I am not naming names, but he does all their marketing has asked me if I would like to advertise on the Wern next season. I have known this person for years and he has offered me a good deal.

What does that have to do with anything?

Just saying thats all.

It's just a lovely story LP

It is. We should have a 'lovely story' thread on here.

There's no way Merthyr becoming a region, same way rgc1404 wont as the ospreys, scarlets and dragons wont accept a cut in funds received to them by the WRU and the WRU aren't going to sanction a region who will need a benefactor ro survive as there's too much risk involved

Anyway, back onto the topic, the current standings are:-

Merthyr	23		103
Swansea	24		103
Pontypool	23		88
Bargoed	22		82
RGC1404	22		78

So RGC1404 have a game in hand over Pontypool but have to make up a deficit of 10pts. I think their best chance will be to overtake Bargoed, they have Swansea on Saturday, whilst RGC1404 entertain strugglers Llanharan, we could see the two clubs go level on points this weekend.

After that, Pontypool have to play both Bargoed and RGC1404 at home, it will be very interesting.

RGC 86 - 15 Llanharan
Bargoed 24 - 11 Swansea

1 Merthyr 24 22 0 2 1055 266 20 108
2 Swansea 25 21 1 3 811 392 17 103
3 Pontypool 24 19 1 4 769 391 15 93
4 Bargoed 23 17 1 5 657 322 17 87
5 RGC1404 23 16 0 7 839 426 19 83

We now have a 4 point gap with 3 games to play, it's tight

It'll be wider next week. I expect Pooler to beat RGC at the Park.

RiscaGame wrote:It'll be wider next week. I expect Pooler to beat RGC at the Park.

I agree I think the games just about up now for RGC.

Bargoed need to beat Pontypool at Pontypool to be safe. IF RGC go to Pontypool and get a result it could get very interesting.

Well Bargoed have now cemented a Promotion spot.  Basically Bargoed have now thrown a massive spanner into the works as the plan all along was for Swansea, Pontypool, Merthyr, RGC1404 to get promoted.  

The WRU have already started to try and wriggle out of the arrangement by changing the plan so they can go up next year.  If were being honest and RGC1404 had got promoted then the rules wouldnt of changed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36178822

Bargoed have been promoted to the expanded Welsh Premiership for next season.

They joined Merthyr and Swansea in confirming their rise to Welsh rugby's second tier with a 17-8 win over Pontypool.

There is no relegation from the Premiership this season.

Pontypool hope to be among the four teams going up to a division from which there will be no relegation for the next three seasons.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/welsh-rugby-union-could-scrap-11268531

Welsh Rugby Union could scrap three-year ring-fencing of the Principality Premiership for one-season safety net.

The new WRU regime are thought to be opposed to the three-year ring-fencing of the Premiership - a decision that was made before they took office - and there is a growing support for a one-year plan.

The Welsh Rugby Union could scrap their proposed three-year ring-fencing of the Principality Premiership and press ahead with protecting the expanded 16-club top-flight for just one season.

Union chairman Gareth Davies was at Bargoed Park on Saturday to watch the Blues join Merthyr and Swansea in the Premiership next season in a tension-packed 17-8 victory over Pontypool.

For Pontypool, who have been in the box seat for much of the season to take one of the four promotion place up for grabs in the Swalec Championship, it’s an anxious wait to see if RGC 1404 pick up the two wins needed at struggling Glynneath and Cardiff Met to grab the final golden ticket.

But amid all the gloom and doom for Pooler in the Rhymney Valley on Saturday evening comes hope they may just have to endure two more years in the Championship, instead of four, before being able to launch another quest to dine at the top table of the Welsh club game after being relegated from the Premiership back in 2012.

The new WRU regime are thought to be opposed to the three-year ring-fencing of the Premiership - a decision that was made before they took office - and there is a growing support for a one-year ring-fencing as a compromise.

Pontypool have voiced concerns over ring-fencing before Saturday’s game with Bargoed with chief executive Ben Jeffreys saying: “It is unfathomable that either ourselves, Bargoed or RGC 1404 face the prospect of seasons locked in the Championship with no opportunity to earn promotion to the Principality Premiership.

“All five A Licence holding teams have demonstrated tremendous ambition that shows our commitment to competing at the highest level of Welsh club rugby.

“For any ambitious club to not have the opportunity to progress for such a prolonged period of time will be catastrophic.

“While we were all aware of what was at stake well in advance of the season, the standard of rugby has been fantastic and I would never want to see ourselves or any of our ambitious rivals prevented from having an opportunity to progress.

“We would welcome the challenge of staving off relegation should we earn promotion to the Principality Premiership.

“Rugby is about survival of the fittest and ring-fencing totally eliminates that element of jeopardy that is so vital for retaining interest in Welsh club rugby.

“I would call upon the WRU to urgently re-evaluate their position and re-introduce a one up-one down promotion and relegation system, providing that the promoted team possesses an A Licence.

“Such a system would ensure we continue to improve the standard of rugby in the Premiership and further enhance the development of regional academy players, for whom we want to see go on to be future Welsh international superstars.

“Were the WRU to revise its current strategy and either promote all five teams or vastly reduce the ring fencing period, I would absolutely support their decision.”

Meanwhile, the Jeffreys family - CEO Ben and executive chairman Peter - have committed their future to Pontypool, regardless of whether the club goes up this season.

Chairman Peter Jeffreys: “The last three and a half years has been an incredible experience.

“I initially invested in the club following the court case as I simply did not want to see it disappear.

“The club had lost almost everything and we quite literally had to re-build it from the ground up.

“It has taken a long time to get the right structures in place but I am so very grateful to everybody involved in making the club a place to be proud of once again.

“It has been a total team effort and everybody at the club is here purely because they want Pooler to succeed.”

Unfortunately Pooler only have themselves to blame. Even without the result on Saturday, they should've beaten RGC at home. I know they'll probably comfortably walk the championship for the next few seasons, but other teams have had to suffer similar, like Ebbw not getting promoted for a while (and Bargoed last season). The rules shouldn't be altered now. I like Ben Jeffreys (from what I've seen of him), but I doubt he would be quite so vocal if Pooler were up.

Plus giving that prize plum Powell something else to moan about is great stuff too.

Why no mocking of Shifty for using a WOL link Risca ?

If I had posted that I would have been called lordclickbait.

Well that's the V2 way for you.

I think you misunderstand the term clickbait.

LordDowlais wrote:Why no mocking of Shifty for using a WOL link Risca ?

If I had posted that I would have been called lordclickbait.

Well that's the V2 way for you.

Oh, you sensitive soul. Firstly, it wasn't the only link he used (unlike most of yours), secondly clickbaiting is what you used to be guilty of because you wouldn't discuss anything, nor post the content of the article. You would merely post a Fail link or nowadays post articles with misleading titles like AWJ retiring. Hence the clickbait. Lastly, you seem to take the Fail as gospel. That's the difference.

I'm also pretty sure I've personally never called you Lord clickbait. But thanks for your contribution.