Define Hacker

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 11:11 am

I used the term hacker on the thread about practicing the short game which descended into a discussion about whether or not "hackers" should club up.  Using hacker is clearly a pejorative term but the degree to which it riles people is always a shock.  I suspect much of the backlash on the aforementioned thread was due to the use of "hacker".

I would like fellow posters to provide what they think the definition of a hacker is and whether you have a handicap range to which you think it applies universally?

Try and describe the type of shots you think a hacker would hit, their approach to shot selection and course management or even what they would wear or the type of club they use. I am looking for the set of attributes you think those in the hacker category would have.

I will add my definition into the mix but will not provide it in the opening post to avoid biasing the responses.
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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 11:16 am

Chopper/Hacker/Duffer to me is someone who cannot make good contact with the ball on a regular basis and who has no control of where the ball is going. Simple as that.

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Post by LadyPutt on Wed 18 May 2016, 11:35 am

super_realist wrote:Chopper/Hacker/Duffer to me is someone who cannot make good contact with the ball on a regular basis and who has no control of where the ball is going. Simple as that.
I think I'd tend to agree with you there - it has nothing to do with what handicap they are as I've played with several people (usually men) who I would class as a "hacker" given that definition who claim to be off 18 or less! And then I've played with people (usually women) who are off a higher handicap but who are more consistent (ie hitting it straight down the middle) but just don't hit it very far and therefore take more strokes. As long as they get on with it and don't dawdle, I know who I'd rather play with.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed 18 May 2016, 11:53 am

I presume you meant any amateur above scratch.
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Post by Davie on Wed 18 May 2016, 11:56 am

McLaren wrote:Using hacker is clearly a pejorative term but the degree to which it riles people is always a shock.  I suspect much of the backlash on the aforementioned thread was due to the use of "hacker".

Maybe rather than worrying about just exactly WHO you have insulted, you should think more about not insulting anyone? Rolling Eyes

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Post by beninho on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:06 pm

I use the term about myself in a joking way. And to be fair I think of most players as  hackers because everyone has the potential to hack their way up any given hole be you playing off scratch upto 28!

I cant believe anyone would be offended by the term, though again its in the way its meant. If you use it in a patronising manner, then that person just comes across as a bit of a diick.

Maybe we should all be proud to be a hacker...My names Ben and I'm a proud Hacker!

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:24 pm

Benhino, I also describe myself as a hacker in a jovial way. But I think as well as this self deprecating use there is an idea that some players are actually "hackers".

I am sure we have all been part of clubhouse chat that has focused on who in the comp is a true hacker. There is usually a an 8 handicapper spouting off about someone on an 18 handicap being a total hacker, without any insight into just how bad an 8 handicap can be.



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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 18 May 2016, 12:32 pm

Personally, I think it's often used as a pejorative term by 'better' players to describe those not as good (in reality, or in their own minds) as them. I've used it myself on many occasions over the years I suspect, but almost never to the so-say hacker's face.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 May 2016, 1:39 pm

"How bad" can "an 8 handicap" "be"?


The use of the word "hacker" on here is invariably meant as a derogatory description from those who consider themselves above the golf-playing riff raff. Which is fair enough but it doesn't mean that "hacker" is incapable of hitting fine shots or that he/she is of some lesser golfing intelligence. Implication to the contrary confirms that person, as ben says, as a "dick".






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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 1:42 pm

I'm not sure I see the problem with the term "hacker".
If you aren't in control of the golf ball or can't make good contact regularly, you are, by definition, hacking it round. Even if that is with purpose, it's without ability.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 May 2016, 1:53 pm

Not necessarily super,
As he proved on Monday, Tont is currently unable to "make good contact regularly" but certainly wouldn't call him a hacker.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 1:59 pm

Nobody is referring to 9C, we're talking about club golfers.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 2:05 pm

Kwini

As my response to Benhino hinted I agree that the use of the term carries and air of snobbery and reflects the divides that exist in golf.

As for how bad can an 8 handicapper be, I would say very, in terms of having to play with them. The 5 to 12 handicap range produces the worst bores, who lack the known unknowns to realise just how far from good they really are.

In this range you will hear strange comments that reveal that the player thinks of their game as if they were a pro. They have all the gear, have had all the lessons, their clubs have had all the custom fit mods, they use the ball which gives them the correct launch spin etc etc. And then the duff it of the 1st tee. The worst thing though about these players is that they can never accept it was their lack of talent that caused a bad shot, it has to be a swing change, the wrong weight of shaft for the humidity or that they ate their power shakes in the wrong order.

Give me a hacker to play with any day over the weekend golfer that thinks they are a trackman session away from achieving Rory's launch angle.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed 18 May 2016, 2:07 pm

Ahh, the old scottish 'chip', smells like reverse snobism. Love it.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 May 2016, 2:14 pm

Your definition, super, not anyone else's.

No-one on here that I've seen objects to the term "hacker" as it applies to us, just the connotations implied by those who consider themselves above such description.


Mac,
You should take more care over the company that you keep. I'd say that your description matches about 1% of people I've ever played with, usually when on holiday at some resort.
Regardless, they're subsidising those of you who consider themselves one step away from golfing elite.
And you haven't acknowledged the essence of my post (or, for that matter, the inference that perhaps you exemplify the patronising tone that defines such perpetrators as a "dick").

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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 2:21 pm

We're all hackers in comparison to someone, but certain golfers are always going to be hackers to pretty much everyone in that they are barely better than someone who has never even played.

It's the same in every sport. If it takes  an hour and a half to run 10k, you're a hacker in that. If you can't hit a goal mouth from 12 yards, you're a hacker in that. If you can't hit a tennis ball over the net, you're a hacker in that, if you can't get a golf ball off the ground and have no idea where it's going or how far, you're a hacker in that.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 2:25 pm

Kwini

Don't be coy, what was the essence of your post? Ask a straight question and I will be able to respond.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed 18 May 2016, 2:46 pm

I think the term dick is self explanatory. Or would percy suffice?
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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:06 pm

I think the term hacker refers more to the capability of a player to execute shots rather than their handicap. Scoring is an objective measure of ability but hacker is a subjective description of the style in which someone plays.

I would say that a player with the ability to play different shots to suit the circumstances eg open the face to flop it over a bunker, punch it low under trees etc is not a hacker, even if they don't always execute the shot well and have a high handicap. Anyone can shank it or duff it... just look at Russell Knox at 17 on Sunday or Speith at the Masters.

On the other hand, sometimes I come across golfers with a relatively low handicap but a limited repertoire of shots. Players who hack it consistently in the same direction. For example I know someone who hits a low hook. Every shot he hits is the same. If he ever gets in a deep bunker he's in big trouble because he doesn't have the finesee to deal with it. However he never goes in deep bunkers because he knows where the ball is going and manages his game to suit. I would describe him as a hacker even though his handicap is about 7.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:07 pm

Monty, I don't understand what kwini is asking me. If you could put it into simple terms in the form of a question that would help.


I thought I agreed with the point that using hacker was divisive and reflected poorly on the person using it? Especially when used by know it all players around the high single figure range.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:23 pm

Ah well, never mind then.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:24 pm

Mac,
Let's see if you can read it here, obviously you had trouble the first time:
"It doesn't mean that 'hacker' is incapable of hitting fine shots or that he/she is of some lesser golfing intelligence".

super evidently doesn't agree which is fair enough; perhaps you don't either. And that is where an apparently patronising tone may not sit well.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:44 pm

Q: Can you define "hacker" in reference to the game of golf.

A: A "hacker" is anyone and everyone who plays the game of golf.

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Post by LadyPutt on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:51 pm

Roller_Coaster wrote:Q: Can you define "hacker" in reference to the game of golf.

A: A "hacker" is anyone and everyone who plays the game of golf.
thumbsup
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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 5:03 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Let's see if you can read it here, obviously you had trouble the first time:
"It doesn't mean that 'hacker' is incapable of hitting fine shots or that he/she is of some lesser golfing intelligence".

super evidently doesn't agree which is fair enough; perhaps you don't either. And that is where an apparently patronising tone may not sit well.

Not quite Kwini, I'm perfectly willing to accept that a "hacker" can hit fine shots on occasion, and could have perfect golfing intelligence.
My position is that a hacker is more likely to hit a poorly hit/directed shot around 9/10. That is to say, hit poorly, either fat or thin, and with no knowledge of which direction the shot is going, or how far.

You can also spot a hacker by:
A) when they are seen squatting down to put their ball on a tee.
B) Turning round on a green following completion of a hole pointing down the fairway to count their shots.
C) Doing the "teapot" stance before the shot is even completed.
D) Has the driver and woods in the lower section of their bag.
E) has those rubber tees of assorted size all linked together with string.
F) Looking for their inevitably lost ball 100 yards further than they have ever hit it in their life.
H) Waiting for the green to clear 300 yards away when they've only managed 150 off the tee with a driver.
I) Pulling a three wheeled trolley.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 5:13 pm

Kwini

It was that this comment that I didn't really understand.

" perhaps you exemplify the patronising tone that defines such perpetrators as a "dick""

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 May 2016, 6:20 pm

super - Phew. I never do any of those things but I really am a hacker!

Mac,
That's up to you - do you fit that bill or not? Perhaps you do, perhaps you don't. Imagine dickitude is in the eye of the beholder.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 6:32 pm

I assumed you were implying I did fit the bill.


Super

You forgot the owning of a chipper.
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Post by Davie on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:26 pm

super_realist wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Let's see if you can read it here, obviously you had trouble the first time:
"It doesn't mean that 'hacker' is incapable of hitting fine shots or that he/she is of some lesser golfing intelligence".

super evidently doesn't agree which is fair enough; perhaps you don't either. And that is where an apparently patronising tone may not sit well.

Not quite Kwini, I'm perfectly willing to accept that a "hacker" can hit fine shots on occasion, and could have perfect golfing intelligence.
My position is that a hacker is more likely to hit a poorly hit/directed shot around 9/10. That is to say, hit poorly, either fat or thin, and with no knowledge of which direction the shot is going, or how far.

You can also spot a hacker by:
A) when they are seen squatting down to put their ball on a tee.
B) Turning round on a green following completion of a hole pointing down the fairway to count their shots.
C) Doing the "teapot" stance before the shot is even completed.
D) Has the driver and woods in the lower section of their bag.
E) has those rubber tees of assorted size all linked together with string.
F) Looking for their inevitably lost ball 100 yards further than they have ever hit it in their life.
H) Waiting for the green to clear 300 yards away when they've only managed 150 off the tee with a driver.
I) Pulling a three wheeled trolley.

Phew - Super is just regurgitating an old golf joke - or "meme" as I think they are called these days

Yes I would say anyone who hits 9/10 poorly hit or misdirected could legitimately be described a "hacker" - but only if I wanted to be insulting. The other 8 points are just standard golf "memes" (what happened to "G" ?)

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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:00 pm

Who cares if something is insulting? It's hardly insulting when you know that's what you are, being called it is merely confirmation. Nobody should be insulted for being a bad golfer, unless of course they think they aren't despite the evidence.

If you failed to do something properly 90% of the time, would you want people to tell you that you were good at it? Only if you were in denial.
If you failed 90% of an exam, you wouldn't want to be told you did well.

I played with a guy of +3 at the weekend, by comparison, I was the hacker. Would I have bene insulted? No.

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Post by Davie on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:25 pm

Were 9/10 of your shots poorly hit or misdirected?

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Post by beninho on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:45 pm

I would bet that there are virtually no golfers who hit 9/10 shots badly. The guys I play with all know we have limitations and are happy to accept the hacker tag.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 18 May 2016, 10:06 pm

Ben

I have played with people who hit 10/10 shots badly. In fact i think I have had rounds where I am that player. Sad
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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 May 2016, 10:11 pm

Davie wrote:Were 9/10 of your shots poorly hit or misdirected?

Of course not, but by direct comparison I was a hacker compared to his +3 handicap and virtually blemish free round, no problem with accepting that.

Hacker in general golfing parlance is someone who isn't very good, and isn't getting any better. Like someone who is a beginner and permanently stays at that level.

I was at the range last week, and the guy in the bay beside me didn't hit a single one of his 100 shots well. He was by definition, a hacker.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Thu 19 May 2016, 9:56 am

Davie wrote:(what happened to "G" ?)

None of us can find the G spot Davie, don't pick on Super!

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 19 May 2016, 10:04 am

Roller_Coaster wrote:
Davie wrote:(what happened to "G" ?)

None of us can find the G spot Davie, don't pick on Super!
Laugh clap Take a bow...
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Post by McLaren on Thu 19 May 2016, 11:57 am

Is this guy the archetypal hacker?

Hacker:
Define Hacker Ciz-DUOXIAAmiYD


From GCW'ers.
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Post by AlciG on Thu 19 May 2016, 11:58 am

I don't know how I would define a hacker but I see one every time I look in the mirror.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 19 May 2016, 1:14 pm

McLaren wrote:Is this guy the archetypal hacker?

Hacker:
Define Hacker Ciz-DUOXIAAmiYD


From GCW'ers.
Hmm. GCW can be funny at times, but I'm not sure I see the humour in that image. Perhaps a good illustration of the sort of winker some (i.e. some who go under the 'GCW' banner) golfers can be? So that man's wearing trousers of indeterminate length and appears to have a strong baseball grip; not sure that makes him a hacker. Maybe he laced it 270 down the middle a fraction of second later?
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Post by McLaren on Thu 19 May 2016, 1:18 pm

Navy laughing

Love the dry humor.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 19 May 2016, 1:36 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy   laughing

Love the dry humor humour.
Headscratch Therein lies a problem I reckon. I wasn't trying to by humorous....
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Post by Nay on Thu 19 May 2016, 6:39 pm

So Mac, just to confirm you are prejudicing someones abilty to play golf purely based on appeareance.

And laughing at someone when they suggest that they could have a decent level of ability.

Interesting.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 19 May 2016, 8:22 pm

FFS they guy had a fleece on. So yeah, I am judging him on appearance.
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Post by puligny on Thu 19 May 2016, 10:03 pm

I sometimes feel I should shout fore before hitting the ball! Just in case - you know!

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Post by McLaren on Thu 19 May 2016, 10:37 pm

I managed 4 double bogeys in 6 holes today.  I reckon that makes me a hacker.

Fluffed pitch
4 putt (very long putt on severe slope ended back at my feet, and 3 putted on second attempt)
3 putt after missing with approach
-par
-birdie
long  Shocked into trouble.  Run
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Post by beninho on Fri 20 May 2016, 8:59 am

Do people really care what someone wears when playing golf? I honestly find that strange.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 20 May 2016, 9:01 am

Mac's an authority on sartorial elegance, didn't you know Beninho?

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Post by raycastleunited on Sat 21 May 2016, 10:33 am

McLaren wrote:I managed 4 double bogeys in 6 holes today.  I reckon that makes me a hacker.

Fluffed pitch
4 putt (very long putt on severe slope ended back at my feet, and 3 putted on second attempt)
3 putt after missing with approach
-par
-birdie
long  Shocked into trouble.  Run

Mac, up to now this conversation has been about hackers on a golf course, not your struggles on tiger woods golf game on a computer. Computer hacker has a totally different meaning.

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Post by McLaren on Sat 21 May 2016, 10:20 pm

Raycastle

Hacking on a EA sports game would be shooting a 66. They make them way too easy.
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Post by Davie on Sun 22 May 2016, 8:29 pm

In the spirit of the thread I offer a couple of anecdotes.

Firstly yesterday playing a stableford with a gentleman with a handicap of 26. To be fair to him, he must be mid- to late-sixties, and I've played with him before and he previously had shown he could play (at least close) to his handicap. Yesterday, Super's remark about 8/10 shots duffed came to mind. It was painful to watch, but if he's spent half as much time concentrating on his game rather than new expletives to use after most of his shots, he would probably have done much better.

But the second anecdote is much more self deprecating and one I'm sure Super will enjoy. Playing an away match at Badgemore Park near Henley, I hit the ultimate hacker shot - or at least I believe so unless anyone can give us a better example!

I'm sure we've all suffered a "double hit" at some point in our lives (even super). Usually out of deep rough or perhaps a bunker - but today I throw myself at the mercy of the 606v2 posters and ask if anyone has ever done what I did today.... finding myself in the middle of the fairway with a 3/4 wedge to the green. Yes, a double hit. I'd never done that before and I don't recall ever seeing anyone else doing it; a shot so badly "chunked" that I double hit from a decent fairway lie!

I can honestly say it felt far worse than the worst sh*nk I've ever hit

So can anyone redeem my embarrassment and tell a tale of worse hacker shot than that?

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