England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

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England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 24 May 2016, 11:50 am

First topic message reminder :

Venue
Riverside Ground, Chester-le-Street

Dates
27th - 31st May 2016

TV Coverage
Live: Sky Sports 2 from 10am Daily
Highlights: Channel 5 19:00 Daily (also Sky Sports on differing channels and at differing times)



Officials

Umpires - Aleem Dar and S Ravi
TV umpire - RJ Tucker
Match referee - AJ Pycroft
Reserve umpire - TBC



Weather
Friday 14C Cloudy
Saturday 15C Cloudy
Sunday 15C Cloudy
Sunday 14C Some Rain
Monday 13C Some Rain



Form

England - LWDWLW
Sri Lanka - LLWWLL



Teams:

England - 1) Alastair Cook (capt), 2) Alex Hales, 3) Nick Compton, 4) Joe Root, 5) James Vince, 6) Jonny Bairstow, 7) Moeen Ali, 8) Chris Woakes, 9) Stuart Broad, 10) Steven Finn, 11) James Anderson

Sri Lanka - 1 Dimuth Karunaratne, 2 Kaushal Silva, 3 Kusal Mendis, 4 Dinesh Chandimal (wk), 5 Angelo Mathews (capt), 6 Lahiru Thirimanne, 7 Milinda Siriwardana, 8 Rangana Herath, 9 Shaminda Eranga, 10 Nuwan Pradeep 11 Suranga Lakmal



Pending Milestones:

Alastair Cook needs 20 runs to become the 12th player - and first Englishman - to 10,000 in Tests.
Moeen Ali needs 51 runs to reach 1,000 in Tests.
Rangana Herath needs one wicket to become the third Sri Lankan to 300 in Tests.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 27 May 2016, 10:37 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 31 May 2016, 9:49 am

With regards to Cook's 10,000 runs i'd be interested to see where he stands average wise in comparison to other test openers, all the others in the club played in the middle order the majority of their careers.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 31 May 2016, 9:56 am

Anybody see that guy on Twitter going on about foreign born players playing for England citing Ali/Rashid as two of the main ones?

Just slightly racist...
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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:02 am

Born in such foreign climes as Birmingham and Bradford.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:13 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:With regards to Cook's 10,000 runs i'd be interested to see where he stands average wise in comparison to other test openers, all the others in the club played in the middle order the majority of their careers.

I wouldn't expect it would be up there really, though for an England player it's a good average as we don't ever seem to have many players who end their careers averaging over 45

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:15 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:With regards to Cook's 10,000 runs i'd be interested to see where he stands average wise in comparison to other test openers, all the others in the club played in the middle order the majority of their careers.

Cook currently averages 46.45

Warner averages a shade over 50 and Burns 49 (but very early in his career so discount). I cant think of any other currently active regular openers who would be close and have played a decent number of tests.

Perhaps the fairest comparisson would be Smith, recently retired on 48.25 and regarded as an all time great.

Strauss averaged 40.91
Atherton 37.69
Gooch 42.98
Hobbs 56.94

So Cooks stacks up against his contemporaries and all but ancient history for England players in an era when openers haven't been much cop, or perhaps where the expectation to attack has made their job of seeing off the new ball harder. His acheivements of weight of runs/length of career, performances overseas and long captaincy of a fairly succesful side are likely to be what hes remebered for more than his average or individual match winning score though.


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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:16 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Anybody see that guy on Twitter going on about foreign born players playing for England citing Ali/Rashid as two of the main ones?

Just slightly racist...

What about Sri Lanaka? None of them were born in England, team of bloody foriegners!

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:18 am

VTR wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:With regards to Cook's 10,000 runs i'd be interested to see where he stands average wise in comparison to other test openers, all the others in the club played in the middle order the majority of their careers.

I wouldn't expect it would be up there really, though for an England player it's a good average as we don't ever seem to have many players who end their careers averaging over 45

I don't think there's many openers with a better average, a quick look at the names I recognise would have him in the top 10; Hayden, Sehwag and Smith being the only modern players I can see above him.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:23 am

You're right - currently 20th of all time so not too shabby. I suppose it remains to be seen how he ends up, because if for example he ends up averaging around 44, he will drop below the likes of Michael Vaughan and Mark Richardson - though obviously having a way longer career

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:32 am

Could you post the full list of 20 VTR, if that's possible, be interested to see where he ranks post 1970.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:39 am

Will do later HH - I'd like to verify the stats on cricinfo, as I found the list from another source which I want to check is 100% correct

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:52 am

H Sutcliffe (Eng) 61.10
B Mitchell (SA) 56.90
L Hutton (Eng) 56.47
JB Hobbs (Eng) 56.37
RB Simpson (Aus) 55.51
WH Ponsford (Aus) 54.17
DL Amiss (Eng) 53.70
WM Woodfull (Aus) 50.90
DA Warner (Aus) 50.88
ML Hayden (Aus) 50.73
SM Katich (Aus) 50.48
SM Gavaskar (India) 50.29
V Sehwag (ICC/India) 50.04
GC Smith (ICC/SA) 49.07
JL Langer (Aus) 48.22
G Boycott (Eng) 48.16
HH Gibbs (SA) 47.22
WM Lawry (Aus) 47.15
Saeed Anwar (Pak) 47.10
AN Cook (Eng) 46.16
EJ Barlow (SA) 45.80
AR Morris (Aus) 45.68
GM Turner (NZ) 45.61
MP Vaughan (Eng) 45.48
B Sutcliffe (NZ) 45.20
CG Greenidge (WI) 45.10
CC Hunte (WI) 45.06
DC Boon (Aus) 45.06
RT Robinson (Eng) 44.96
MH Richardson (NZ) 44.67
AJ Stewart (Eng) 44.64
JH Edrich (Eng) 44.54
DJ McGlew (SA) 44.53
IR Redpath (Aus) 44.50
BW Luckhurst (Eng) 43.96
GA Gooch (Eng) 43.88
C Washbrook (Eng) 43.85
G Pullar (Eng) 43.84
ME Trescothick (Eng) 43.78
G Gambhir (India) 43.59
MA Taylor (Aus) 43.49
MS Atapattu (SL) 43.22
CH Gayle (WI) 43.11
CJL Rogers (Aus) 42.87
RC Fredericks (WI) 42.86
MJ Slater (Aus) 42.83
NS Sidhu (India) 42.80
M Vijay (India) 42.61
TM Dilshan (SL) 42.54
DL Haynes (WI) 42.45



Last edited by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:14 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 10:53 am

I think that list is correct, its the top 50, Cook is 23rd. This is average as an opener only - not their overall average which will be different for most if not all of them (e.g. Cook batted at 3 early several times early in his career and has on occasion come in as low as 7 I believe). Qualification is a minimum of 30 innings - so Cook can be moved up and down the list depending on those sort of parameters. So no definitive answer but he is certainly up there at the moment

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:00 am

The one that surpirses me on that list is Katich. he obviously did a lot better as an opener than in other positions.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:06 am

The thing with someone like Katich is he'd be at the lower end of the 30 innings, so has more chance to cash in on a purple patch or a long-ish series against poor opposition

Cook definitely gets extra credit for having played all opposition home and away over an extended period

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:07 am

VTR wrote:H Sutcliffe (Eng) 61.10
B Mitchell (SA) 56.90
L Hutton (Eng) 56.47
JB Hobbs (Eng) 56.37
RB Simpson (Aus) 55.51
DL Amiss (Eng) 53.70
DA Warner (Aus) 50.88
ML Hayden (Aus) 50.73
SM Gavaskar (India) 50.29
V Sehwag (ICC/India) 50.04
GC Smith (ICC/SA) 49.07
G Boycott (Eng) 48.16
WM Lawry (Aus) 47.15
AN Cook (Eng) 46.49

WH Ponsford (Aus) 54.17
WA Brown (Aus) 50.14
AF Rae (WI) 46.18
WM Woodfull (Aus) 50.90 46.00
EAB Rowan (SA) 50.00 43.66
HH Gibbs (SA) 47.22 41.95
SM Katich (Aus) 50.48 45.03
Saeed Anwar (Pak) 47.10 45.52
JL Langer (Aus) 48.22 45.27

I assume those are stats whilst opening the batting, I myself looking at that and time spent actually opening i'd have Cook 13th all time and 6th in what I would call the modern era. He's a statistically far better opening batsmen than people give him credit for, even then i'm not comfortable having Warner and Gavaskar above him, the latter I always think of as being more a middle order batsmen.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:16 am

I think I stuffed up the original list - see edit. Averages are for opening the batting, 30 or more innings batted minimum

Cook is 20th which is per the other website I found

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:19 pm

Yeah so hes still in the very good, espeically for his era category...but short of Smith.
Warner too is a contemporary with a much better average, but hasnt got that against all opposition over many years. Plus neither him nor Warner have had to face the aussie quicks at home! (Mind having said that Cook wouldnt last 5 seconds against Anderson, he struggles enough against second rate seamers at home).

Not quite one of the all time greats of the game, but a very good player and will end his career with a host of record.

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Eyetoldyouso on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:44 pm

"....even then i'm not comfortable having Warner and Gavaskar above him, the latter I always think of as being more a middle order batsmen."

Sorry HH that's just not the case. Of his total Test innings of 214, 203 were at no 1 or 2. At 1 or 2, his average is 50.29 and total runs 9,607.
Sunil Gavaskar is one of the all time greatest opening batsmen. Imagine how many runs he could have made if he'd faced an Indian attack (sic).

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:51 pm

He must be thinking of someone else. Does remind me though, the next record Cook will get is most Test runs opening the innings. Currently second to Gavaskar with 9,464 vs the record of 9,607

I actually find this more impressive than the 10,000 runs achievement

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 31 May 2016, 2:03 pm

He could well take that 10,000 as an opener then, theres no pressure on him to retire anytime soon or any sign that hes ready to go now theres no drama and the results are improved.
Conservative estimates ...
Next test and Pakistan series 250
Bangladesh 100
In India.. 300 or hes not even trying

He could retire then and easily have passed the record .. or could keep going till the next Ashes and still only be 33. Another 7 home tests and 5 away ...that could have him chasing Border in the most runs list.

How long till Root takes his record for most England runs though?

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by KP_fan on Tue 31 May 2016, 9:44 pm

There was a lot of talk at the end of the test......Lankan Fight-Back, Revival...

Fight back is unambiguously, when a team is at some point, competing in the game...

Was Lanka in a competitive situation at any point?

Barely avoided innings defeat and lost by 9 wickets in under 4 days

such low had the bar of expectation fallen of the Lankans that the aforesaid in italics appeared a "Renaissance"

I am glad they scored some runs at the end.....but nothing convinces me it's anything but a 3-0 white-wash in the offing steam

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 9:53 am

KP_fan wrote:There was a lot of talk at the end of the test......Lankan Fight-Back, Revival...

Fight back is unambiguously, when a team is at some point, competing in the game...

Was Lanka in a competitive situation at any point?

Barely avoided innings defeat and lost by 9 wickets in under 4 days

such low had the bar of expectation fallen of the Lankans that the aforesaid  in italics appeared a "Renaissance"

I am glad they scored some runs at the end.....but nothing convinces me it's anything but a 3-0 white-wash in the offing steam


They did have England 0/0 at one point

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 10:57 am

Gooseberry wrote:He could well take that 10,000 as an opener then, theres no pressure on him to retire anytime soon or any sign that hes ready to go now theres no drama and the results are improved.
Conservative estimates ...
Next test and Pakistan series  250
Bangladesh 100
In India.. 300 or hes not even trying

He could retire then and easily have passed the record .. or could keep going till the next Ashes and still only be 33. Another 7 home tests and 5 away ...that could have him chasing Border in the most runs list.  

How long till Root takes his record for most England runs though?

Was gonna say injury permitting root is gonna shatter all England batting records
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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 11:07 am

It's a bit early to say with Root - he still doesn't even have 4,000 Test runs. I'd expect Cook to stretch out the England batting record to at least 12,000 so he will have some way to go there.

Injury/form can play a part but what about there being fewer Tests? Cook may turn out to have played in the peak period where 12+ Tests a year is the norm. e.g. how much longer will SL bother to send a side over for a 3 Test series mainly in May. Could we be reduced to England mainly playing Australia in Tests with more short form vs the other countries?

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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

Post by KP_fan on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 7:40 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
KP_fan wrote:There was a lot of talk at the end of the test......Lankan Fight-Back, Revival...

Fight back is unambiguously, when a team is at some point, competing in the game...

Was Lanka in a competitive situation at any point?

Barely avoided innings defeat and lost by 9 wickets in under 4 days

such low had the bar of expectation fallen of the Lankans that the aforesaid  in italics appeared a "Renaissance"

I am glad they scored some runs at the end.....but nothing convinces me it's anything but a 3-0 white-wash in the offing steam


They did have England 0/0 at one point

Very Happy
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Re: England vs Sri Lanka, 2nd Test

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