Ulster 2016/2017

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Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Notch on Tue 24 May 2016, 6:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

The build up to Ulsters gloriously successful 2016/2017 campaign starts here!

Allow summer optimism to get the better of you or discuss why we are in crisis right here on this thread- before weary resignation over the quality of forwards we have sinks in once again.


Last edited by Notch on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 2:45 pm

Herron - Lyttle - McCloskey - Cave - Stpckdale - Piutau

Callow on the wings, but talented.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 2:45 pm

According to the other forum, Cave might not make it (family reasons), but Reidy, Olding and Gilroy should be available.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 3:43 pm

Ruan being linked with a move to Montpellier next year, shall we begin protest proceedings immediately?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 3:46 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Ruan being linked with a move to Montpellier next year, shall we begin protest proceedings immediately?

l'equipe?

In fact if it's any french paper I would treat it as factual as one of Boudjellal's comics. Ruan isn't going anywhere.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:00 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Ruan being linked with a move to Montpellier next year, shall we begin protest proceedings immediately?

l'equipe?

In fact if it's any french paper I would treat it as factual as one of Boudjellal's comics. Ruan isn't going anywhere.

Via Google Translate

Reportedly, Ruan Pienaar is in advanced contacts with Montpellier. Seeking a half of high-level fray to accompany Benoît Paillaugue next season, the MHR had learned about Sebastien Bezy will be out of contract with Toulouse at the end of the season. But it seems that negotiations will be intensified with Ruan Pienaar (32). The South African scrum half (88 caps) will be out of contract with Ulster in June 2017 after seven seasons in Ireland.

In September 2013, he had signed a pre-contract for the RCT before finally re-engage with the Irish province to a new three-year lease. The Springbok knows Jake White, the current coach of the MHR, under whom he was world champion with South Africa at the World Cup in France in 2007.

Ruan Pienaar plays the fray but can also play at the opening. It is also a great scorer. If the information is confirmed, it would be a coup carried out by Montpellier. Perhaps as a sign of maintaining the Chief Jake White as coach next year?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:07 pm

Munchkin wrote:According to the other forum, Cave might not make it (family reasons), but Reidy, Olding and Gilroy should be available.

I'd be surprised if Olding was available. Didn't he start two of the tests against SA?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:17 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Munchkin wrote:According to the other forum, Cave might not make it (family reasons), but Reidy, Olding and Gilroy should be available.

I'd be surprised if Olding was available. Didn't he start two of the tests against SA?

He did, Rory. 2nd and 3rd Tests. Don't know if there's any truth in it, but can't deny I'm hopeful we get one of Marshall or Olding back for Dragons, even if that means they have to be rested in 2 or 3 weeks.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Ruan being linked with a move to Montpellier next year, shall we begin protest proceedings immediately?

l'equipe?

In fact if it's any french paper I would treat it as factual as one of Boudjellal's comics. Ruan isn't going anywhere.

Via Google Translate

Reportedly, Ruan Pienaar is in advanced contacts with Montpellier.  Seeking a half of high-level fray to accompany Benoît Paillaugue next season, the MHR had learned about Sebastien Bezy will be out of contract with Toulouse at the end of the season.  But it seems that negotiations will be intensified with Ruan Pienaar (32).  The South African scrum half (88 caps) will be out of contract with Ulster in June 2017 after seven seasons in Ireland.

In September 2013, he had signed a pre-contract for the RCT before finally re-engage with the Irish province to a new three-year lease.  The Springbok knows Jake White, the current coach of the MHR, under whom he was world champion with South Africa at the World Cup in France in 2007.

Ruan Pienaar plays the fray but can also play at the opening.  It is also a great scorer.  If the information is confirmed, it would be a coup carried out by Montpellier.  Perhaps as a sign of maintaining the Chief Jake White as coach next year?

It's just more of the same rubbish we get every year from the French. Montpellier are probably putting the feelers out, and Pienaars negotiations will be progressing with Ulster. I would be amazed if Pienaar actually moves away. I firmly believe he will retire at Ulster.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:08 am

Ulster Rugby has today confirmed that Ruan Pienaar will leave the club at the end of the 2016/17 season.

The club and the player were very keen for him to extend his stay in Belfast, with Operations Director Bryn Cunningham and Director of Rugby Les Kiss working with the IRFU over the past six months to reach a desirable outcome. Unfortunately, a contract extension was not possible due to the IRFU's succession policy.

Pienaar has scored 777 points in 118 competitive games for Ulster to date and he was a starring member of the squad that reached the 2012 Heineken Cup final.

Commenting on the move, Pienaar said:

"I am not moving on for a new adventure or for financial reasons - I wanted to stay and I know that Ulster Rugby did everything it could to keep me in Belfast. Ulster is special to me and my family now, and I would like to thank my wife, Monique, for coming here to support me and for helping to make it home for us.

"I would also like to thank all of the players and staff at Ulster Rugby, the supporters and the general public, for their support and encouragement since our arrival. It has been brilliant to see the progress that the organisation has made in recent years, particularly with the new facilities here at Kingspan Stadium. The club has given me a lot and I'd like to be in a position to give something back in the future if possible.

"I have many great memories of my time here and I have made some brilliant friends within rugby and outside of it. It is sad that this will be my last season as an Ulster player but I will be doing everything to ensure that we make it a successful campaign."

Kiss was understandably disappointed with the outcome:

"Ruan has been an outstanding servant to Ulster Rugby over the past six years and he will be a huge loss for us next season. For me, he is a fantastic player, but he is an even better person, who is much-loved by his team-mates, the staff and management, and the wider rugby community here in Ulster.

"His influence within the squad, both on and off the field, is truly remarkable; whether that is through match-winning contributions, or mentoring the promising players coming through our pathway. Indeed, he has played a big part in helping us to develop a large group of talented young backline players who have gone on to represent Ireland in recent years.

"He is a consummate professional and I have absolutely no doubt that he will give everything to the Ulster cause for the rest of the season. Our hope is that he will one day return to the Province to continue to have a positive impact on rugby in Ulster."

Shane Logan, Ulster Rugby's Chief Executive, added:

"Ruan's exploits on the pitch are well-documented, but perhaps his biggest contribution since his arrival in Ulster has been his work with the local community. He has been freely giving of so much of his time and he has helped to inspire young people across the Province, not only in rugby, but in their everyday lives. That impact is something that cannot be easily measured.

"We have continued to show that we have the resources, and more importantly, a positive environment and ethos, that makes us an attractive proposition for prospective players. This culture was one of the main reasons why Ruan, among others, was attracted to the club in the first place and why he was so keen to stay.

"I, personally, will miss having him around Kingspan Stadium, but I am looking forward to seeing what he will deliver for us over the course of this season, and the door is open for a return in the future."

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:29 am

So it's true then, the French mags have gotten it at least partly correct so far.
I am as thick as champ when it comes to IRFU policies etc so can someone please tell me what the succession policy entails. Ruan wanted to remain at Ulster but simply isn't allowed as he has to hand over the reins to the next in line?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:35 am

Pete330v2 wrote:So it's true then, the French mags have gotten it at least partly correct so far.
I am as thick as champ when it comes to IRFU policies etc so can someone please tell me what the succession policy entails. Ruan wanted to remain at Ulster but simply isn't allowed as he has to hand over the reins to the next in line?

Pretty much but he wasn't meant to get his last contract and did so Ulster have likely been told find an Irishman for 2017, saying that though they have brought in Angus Lloyd and Im sure a few years under Pienaar would benefit him

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:37 am

Just heard. The Ireland team can f*** away off for all I care. Are the IRFU trying to turn fans off international rugby? I mean come on! On what planet is Pienaar stopping the progress of a future Ireland great??

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:42 am

Makes the Piutau signing seem crazier when someone like James Hart was out there

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:43 am

In effect, it asks a young outhalf in the ascendency to play outside of an inferior scrum-half that isn't going to be bothering the national side. Nucifora and the IRFU cronies are really shooting themselves in the foot.
It's one rule for Munster and Leinster, a whole new set of rules for Ulster it seems. Leinster were allowed to resign Isa and Munster were allowed to sign an injury replacement joker yet Ulster are not allowed a similar replacement and in fact we're having our most influencial player forcibly removed despite his wish to stay?

The IRFU can honestly shove it.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by St John The Enforcer on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:54 am

Pete330v2 wrote:In effect, it asks a young outhalf in the ascendency to play outside of an inferior scrum-half that isn't going to be bothering the national side. Nucifora and the IRFU cronies are really shooting themselves in the foot.
It's one rule for Munster and Leinster, a whole new set of rules for Ulster it seems. Leinster were allowed to resign Isa and Munster were allowed to sign an injury replacement joker yet Ulster are not allowed a similar replacement and in fact we're having our most influencial player forcibly removed despite his wish to stay?

The IRFU can honestly shove it.
Bwahahahahaha

Piutau, Coetzee Pienaar (For 7 focking years) Herbst, Van der Merwe, Ludik

Stack those 6 up against Triggs, Kirchner, Nacewa and Jaimie Gubsun Paahk.

Charmed Jaysis life up there. You could take them all for Piutau alone.

You have had 7 years to develop or sign a replacement for Pienaar. Poxed lucky to get the last 3 year deal. Hastily signed before he was 30 despite him passing 30 before it came into effect


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by JmD on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:06 am

Pienaar has been a great servant to Ulster rugby. He was instrumental in the emergence of Jackson and has probably sold thousands of tickets off of name value alone. The IRFU are morons. I've been preaching "Nucifora Out" since day one, and he's continuing to actively damage the provinces.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Golden on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:13 am

Surely Ulster have known for the last 3 years that he wasnt going to be renewed again?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:19 am

JmD wrote:Pienaar has been a great servant to Ulster rugby. He was instrumental in the emergence of Jackson and has probably sold thousands of tickets off of name value alone. The IRFU are morons. I've been preaching "Nucifora Out" since day one, and he's continuing to actively damage the provinces.

-Allowed Pienaar a new contract even though NIQ weren't meant to get renewals
-Allowed Ludik to become project even though we already had Herbst
-Allowed to sign Piutau even though we already had a NIQ full back


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Notch on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:21 am

The thing about it is, is there's a succession policy which is applied when there is no-one on the horizon to step into the shoes of whoever has left. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

If we don't sign someone like Kieran Marmion or James Hart to replace Pienaar then there's no way we'll be providing a scrum-half to Ireland duty in the foreseeable future. The beneficiary of this will be Paul Marshall who has already been deemed not good enough for Ireland duty. Angus Lloyd and Dave Shanahan would benefit more from having Pienaar around as a mentor. They will get more game time but neither shows much sign of being able to step up to test level as of yet- certainly not in the next two years Pienaars next contract would cover.

Similarly, we're not allowed to sign an injury replacement until Coetzee is fit despite players like Robbie Diack and Roger Wilson being deemed not good enough for Ireland duty. Even Chris Henry has been dropped. So who would the injury replacement be blocking?

NIQ players should never be allowed to block potential internationals, but it's baffling when there is no down side to having an NIQ player and it's still blocked. When Leinster signed Gibson-Park the writing was on the wall for Pienaar. But Leinster are the ones with guys who are potentially future internationals at 9, not us.

If the system worked, we would be signing a back row from Leinster and a scrum half from Leinster. That would be best for everyone- Irish players getting game time and positions that are weak being filled. But without being able to move Irish players around the provinces to fill the gaps NIQ players need to fill, the succession plan just doesn't make sense.

Now that the IRFU have blocked us signing Pienaar, will they work hard to get an Irish scrum-half who can actually compete for international honours up to Ulster? Nick McCarthy perhaps? James Hart?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:26 am

marty2086 wrote:
JmD wrote:Pienaar has been a great servant to Ulster rugby. He was instrumental in the emergence of Jackson and has probably sold thousands of tickets off of name value alone. The IRFU are morons. I've been preaching "Nucifora Out" since day one, and he's continuing to actively damage the provinces.

-Allowed Pienaar a new contract even though NIQ weren't meant to get renewals
-Allowed Ludik to become project even though we already had Herbst
-Allowed to sign Piutau even though we already had a NIQ full back


Marty surely those points prove what a tool Nucifora is Smile

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Notch on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:27 am

The central issue is; the IRFU have made this decision. Who benefits from it? I can't work out who the beneficiary is.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:36 am

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
JmD wrote:Pienaar has been a great servant to Ulster rugby. He was instrumental in the emergence of Jackson and has probably sold thousands of tickets off of name value alone. The IRFU are morons. I've been preaching "Nucifora Out" since day one, and he's continuing to actively damage the provinces.

-Allowed Pienaar a new contract even though NIQ weren't meant to get renewals
-Allowed Ludik to become project even though we already had Herbst
-Allowed to sign Piutau even though we already had a NIQ full back


Marty surely those points prove what a tool Nucifora is Smile

He is, if anything the Ludik and Piutau signings mean we lost Scholes and they will block Gilroy, Stockdale and now Lyttle at times

If we see a drop in quality at 9 then the team will suffer and see the team as a whole suffer which has a knock on effect for Ireland

The question has to be asked though, how hard did Ulster try to get an IQ 9? If they broke their backs and couldn't then it really is self defeating by Nucifora, if they merely paid lip service to the idea then we have shot ourselves in the foot

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Notch on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:38 am

marty2086 wrote:The question has to be asked though, how hard did Ulster try to get an IQ 9? If they broke their backs and couldn't then it really is self defeating by Nucifora, if they merely paid lip service to the idea then we have shot ourselves in the foot

When you say IQ 9, you mean either James Hart, John Cooney or a Leinster Academy player- or a player from our own Academy. There's not many other options out there.

I was disappointed that Ian Porter wasn't developed better.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:39 am

marty2086 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
JmD wrote:Pienaar has been a great servant to Ulster rugby. He was instrumental in the emergence of Jackson and has probably sold thousands of tickets off of name value alone. The IRFU are morons. I've been preaching "Nucifora Out" since day one, and he's continuing to actively damage the provinces.

-Allowed Pienaar a new contract even though NIQ weren't meant to get renewals
-Allowed Ludik to become project even though we already had Herbst
-Allowed to sign Piutau even though we already had a NIQ full back


Marty surely those points prove what a tool Nucifora is Smile

He is, if anything the Ludik and Piutau signings mean we lost Scholes and they will block Gilroy, Stockdale and now Lyttle at times

If we see a drop in quality at 9 then the team will suffer and see the team as a whole suffer which has a knock on effect for Ireland

The question has to be asked though, how hard did Ulster try to get an IQ 9? If they broke their backs and couldn't then it really is self defeating by Nucifora, if they merely paid lip service to the idea then we have shot ourselves in the foot

The mind definitely boggles Marty. Any club would kill to have Ruan on their books and yet Ulster are letting him go despite him wanting to remain with us. Could the IRFU honestly remove a player more central to how we perform? I doubt it.
Notch, I think you'd agree that everyone loses in this situation.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:43 am

Harts moved to Racing with a year left on his contract at Grenoble so doubt we could get him, if we did make an effort we probably couldn't compete

One hope we have is that Herbst and Ludik are IQ in September 2017, maybe the IRFU will allow for a second project player at 9

But it looks like we'll probably have to see a drop there after this season then maybe have to bend over backwards to sign Marmion in 2018 Shocked

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by munkian on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:44 am

He was just scared of being handed off by Amos again Run

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by neilthom7 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:24 pm

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/15139.php#.V8bMVTVxnvt

we have signed peikrishvili on a short term deal to cover prop absences

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:30 pm

neilthom7 wrote:http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/15139.php#.V8bMVTVxnvt

we have signed peikrishvili on a short term deal to cover prop absences

Signed until December 19th.
Are they trying to make us forget what they're doing to St Ruan ? Smile

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:34 pm

The only way Pienaar would have left is if the IRFU pushed him out. Hard to believe they did so without any credible replacement. How can they cite succession policy when there is nobody to succeed Pienaar?

I'm bitterly disappointed. The fact that the IRFU blocked an extension of someone who has been such a fantastic servant to one of the Provinces does not reflect well on them.

Nucifora is an idiot.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:35 pm

David Nucifora, IRFU Performance Director, stated, "The IRFU recognises the contribution that Ruan Pienaar has made to Ulster Rugby over the seven year period he will have been with the province, however the IRFU informed Ulster Rugby during the 2015/16 season that it would not sanction a further extension of his contract.

It is vital for both Ulster and Irish rugby that the province develop indigenous talent in this position and an extension of Ruan's contract would further prevent Irish qualified Ulster players from maximising their developmental potential and becoming stars for both Ulster and Ireland."

HorseDooDoo from Nucifora

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:35 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/15139.php#.V8bMVTVxnvt

we have signed peikrishvili on a short term deal to cover prop absences

Signed until December 19th.
Are they trying to make us forget what they're doing to St Ruan ? Smile

Indeed, the timing is to soften the blow.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by neilthom7 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:37 pm

Its amazing Ulster show a complete lack of PR nous when the report about Ruan 2 days before the season starts, hardly the best time but at least they cushioned it with a Georgian prop

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:48 pm

neilthom7 wrote:Its amazing Ulster show a complete lack of PR nous when the report about Ruan 2 days before the season starts, hardly the best time but at least they cushioned it with a Georgian prop

Given the L'Equipe story yesterday maybe getting in ahead of Montpellier announcing him

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:51 pm

In my opinion, Ruan has been instrumental in the development of several current and future Irish players (Jackson, McCloskey and Olding to name 3). The fact the he has been a part of this should be appreciated and allowed to continue. He is not blocking a future Ireland 9's development...

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 2:02 pm

eirebilly wrote:In my opinion, Ruan has been instrumental in the development of several current and future Irish players (Jackson, McCloskey and Olding to name 3). The fact the he has been a part of this should be appreciated and allowed to continue. He is not blocking a future Ireland 9's development...

+1 Billy......+1000

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 2:13 pm

Ulster lost Wannenburg because of the original IRFU restrictions which were not to allow ANY NIQ contract extensions. Despite Ruan being a folk hero etc. UR cannot complain about being hard done by, having secured a couple of extensions. It was always clear that the last extension would be the last extension and seven years should have been plenty of time to organise a succession plan.

The announcement does raise several important issues:
- It is obvious that Ulster have a chill factor that stops the free movement of players to the province, so the IRFU policy could never have worked as originally envisaged
- Scrum half is the weakest position across Ireland and historically always has been
- Coaches and fans are paradigm-ed into thinking that the Scrum Half is solely a 'service provider' to the Outhalf.
- Schools in Ireland generally pick kids to play scrum half by how small they are rather than their skill-set!

If Pienaar had been born in Ireland he never would have been anywhere near the 9 shirt, and that is the underlying problem that is highlighted by his impending departure.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Kingshu on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 2:15 pm

I actually think that its shocking, and sends out a bad image to other NIQ players that were considering going to Ireland.
It was good that they allowed him to extend his contract last time, but they should have again, as he has given his best for us, and even turned down more money to stay.
Pienaar a couple of years ago turned down more money to stay at Ulster and yet this loyalty isn't now repaid and we cast him off when his potential earning is now less.

From Pienaars point of view, he would have been better going two years ago and taking a big money contract, and would now be getting the same contact as he would but would have put a lot more money in the bank over the last two years.

My fear is that by treating players like this, we will only really attract journeymen players interested in taking a paycheck and then leaving, not the ones we need who really buy into the Province. We won't see others turn down bigger money offers as they now know that their loyalty will not be repaid.

The other thing as Notch points out is that the system is not really working, we haven't seen a backrow, or scrumhalf move North, likewise Rory Scholes should be at Leinster, where I think he would be a starting wing, maybe Michael Allen as well. Ian Whitten at Munster etc

They really should have sorted the movement of players out and then started being stricter, but it appears that they are doing this the wrong way round which will damage the provinces.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 2:22 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster lost Wannenburg because of the original IRFU restrictions which were not to allow ANY NIQ contract extensions. Despite Ruan being a folk hero etc. UR cannot complain about being hard done by, having secured a couple of extensions. It was always clear that the last extension would be the last extension and seven years should have been plenty of time to organise a succession plan.

The announcement does raise several important issues:
- It is obvious that Ulster have a chill factor that stops the free movement of players to the province, so the IRFU policy could never have worked as originally envisaged
- Scrum half is the weakest position across Ireland and historically always has been
- Coaches and fans are paradigm-ed into thinking that the Scrum Half is solely a 'service provider' to the Outhalf.
- Schools in Ireland generally pick kids to play scrum half by how small they are rather than their skill-set!

If Pienaar had been born in Ireland he never would have been anywhere near the 9 shirt, and that is the underlying problem that is highlighted by his impending departure.

We can because we can't magic up an international standard SH. None of the Provinces can. Outside of Murray and Patterson, who else has there been?

I'm a big believer in succession planning, but I'm also a big believer in common sense. Something that the IRFU/Nucifora seem to lack.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 2:29 pm

A succession plan is a great idea in theory but the fact is, we haven't actioned any succession and not just at Ulster. Besides, there isn't any reason why we would when we have a world class scrum-half on our books who despite offers from all over the globe, wants to remain with us......oh hold on Sad
I've said it previously but lets see how Jackson progresses playing his bread and butter rugby outside an inferior scrummy that's been forced upon the squad. Pienaar has brought so much and has so much more to offer but who cares when there's a warped IRFU strategy in play.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 3:09 pm

The whole 'UR knew it was coming and had time to prepare' notion is ridiculous. Quite simply, a young player cannot just be coached into greatness. Nor can we unearth an Irish granny scrum half from abroad if none exist.

By all means, IRFU, keep us to account. Check our coaching, check our recruiting attempts, check our underage programmes. But why then go ahead and pull the plug despite the cold hard facts that there's no Irish qualified talent to come through?

Nusifora said "
It is vital for both Ulster and Irish rugby that the province develop indigenous talent in this position"

How is it vital for Ulster? If we were forced to pay NIQ scrum halves for the next decade, I'd still prefer that than to play somebody who won't help the teams success.

What exactly is the thinking here? That Shanahan would be a shoe-in for the coming Autumn Internationals if it weren't for his lack of game time thanks to Ruan.

Give me a break.

This actually just stinks. It's smells foul. The IRFU need to be very careful. If you are going to cite policy, then you have to show you are consistent and immovable on your policy.

We had a NIQ (for now) full back, we wanted another NIQ full back. Both these players could block ACTUAL potential international talent in Gilroy, Scholes, Nelson, Lyttle, Olding, McCloskey, Marshall.
And yet the IRFU let us have BOTH! How the hell does that fit in with "Ulster players maximising their developmental potential and becoming stars for both Ulster and Ireland."

I'm furious to say the least. And very much have a bad taste in my mouth regarding Ireland internationally.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Sin é on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 3:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:In my opinion, Ruan has been instrumental in the development of several current and future Irish players (Jackson, McCloskey and Olding to name 3). The fact the he has been a part of this should be appreciated and allowed to continue. He is not blocking a future Ireland 9's development...

They might also view it as he having done his job with Jackson and it is now time for Jackson to be 'the man'.

Another consideration is that with Pienaar at Ulster, no other IQ player will go there. For example, Marmion might have gone to Ulster to build up a partnership with Jackson if Pienaar wasn't there.

Its a bit of a catch 22 situation - but it is very tough on Pienaar that he has to move away when he and his family are so happy in Ulster.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 3:25 pm

Sin é wrote:
eirebilly wrote:In my opinion, Ruan has been instrumental in the development of several current and future Irish players (Jackson, McCloskey and Olding to name 3). The fact the he has been a part of this should be appreciated and allowed to continue. He is not blocking a future Ireland 9's development...

They might also view it as he having done his job with Jackson and it is now time for Jackson to be 'the man'.

Another consideration is that with Pienaar at Ulster, no other IQ player will go there. For example, Marmion might have gone to Ulster to build up a partnership with Jackson if Pienaar wasn't there.

Its a bit of a catch 22 situation - but it is very tough on Pienaar that he has to move away when he and his family are so happy in Ulster.

Jackson has been 'the man' for some time now. The idea that Pienaar was holding Jacksons hand is nonsense, even if he did mentor him.

The notion that Marmion would come to Ulster in the absence of Pienaar is fanciful. The evidence is to the contrary. Nucifora can't force players to come here. He can only force players out.....

I feel the IRFU have shown an incredible lack of loyalty to a servant who has served them well.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 3:46 pm

Pienaar himself was saying years ago Jackson was the man calling the backline plays and not him

With Jackson likely pushing Sexton closer than ever now for the 10 shirt, Brett Herron will be stepping in a bit more and a few years playing outside Ruan could do wonders for him

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 3:59 pm

marty2086 wrote:Pienaar himself was saying years ago Jackson was the man calling the backline plays and not him

With Jackson likely pushing Sexton closer than ever now for the 10 shirt, Brett Herron will be stepping in a bit more and a few years playing outside Ruan could do wonders for him

This. Rua's position at Ulster should not be focused on for potentially stopping a future Ireland 9 but what he does (has done) in brining on players around him. That is a very special quality and should not be overlooked which is why I personally feel it was very short sighted to force him away.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:02 pm

Do we actually have any 9s that are potentially good enough for European rugby coming through the ranks?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:03 pm

Maybe we'll be able to get Peter Stringer for a few years Shocked

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Sin é on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:03 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Sin é wrote:
eirebilly wrote:In my opinion, Ruan has been instrumental in the development of several current and future Irish players (Jackson, McCloskey and Olding to name 3). The fact the he has been a part of this should be appreciated and allowed to continue. He is not blocking a future Ireland 9's development...

They might also view it as he having done his job with Jackson and it is now time for Jackson to be 'the man'.

Another consideration is that with Pienaar at Ulster, no other IQ player will go there. For example, Marmion might have gone to Ulster to build up a partnership with Jackson if Pienaar wasn't there.

Its a bit of a catch 22 situation - but it is very tough on Pienaar that he has to move away when he and his family are so happy in Ulster.

Jackson has been 'the man' for some time now. The idea that Pienaar was holding Jacksons hand is nonsense, even if he did mentor him.

The notion that Marmion would come to Ulster in the absence of Pienaar is fanciful. The evidence is to the contrary. Nucifora can't force players to come here. He can only force players out.....

I feel the IRFU have shown an incredible lack of loyalty to a servant who has served them well.

Who said he was holding his hand? More like from a shared responsibility to being fully responsible for the team.

As for Marmion not moving from Connacht - Robbie Henshaw moved to further his international ambitions by playing outside Sexton. As an exile as well, who has already moved from Cardiff to further his career, Marmion is far more likely to move to Ulster than some of the other homegrown scrumhalfs who have a very long association with their Province.

edit: IRFU's only loyalty is to the international team. Everyone and everything else is seconardy.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by St John The Enforcer on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:13 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:A succession plan is a great idea in theory but the fact is, we haven't actioned any succession and not just at Ulster. Besides, there isn't any reason why we would when we have a world class scrum-half on our books

You have just answered your own question there. Why would you bother yer holes developing a young scrum half or finding a project like JGP when you have a comfort blanket of one of the best Scrum halves for a 7 year period. QED.

Yes it's hard on you but you either buy into the union controlled set up or you don't. There are also up sides.....

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Sin é wrote:
eirebilly wrote:In my opinion, Ruan has been instrumental in the development of several current and future Irish players (Jackson, McCloskey and Olding to name 3). The fact the he has been a part of this should be appreciated and allowed to continue. He is not blocking a future Ireland 9's development...

They might also view it as he having done his job with Jackson and it is now time for Jackson to be 'the man'.

Another consideration is that with Pienaar at Ulster, no other IQ player will go there. For example, Marmion might have gone to Ulster to build up a partnership with Jackson if Pienaar wasn't there.

Its a bit of a catch 22 situation - but it is very tough on Pienaar that he has to move away when he and his family are so happy in Ulster.

Jackson has been 'the man' for some time now. The idea that Pienaar was holding Jacksons hand is nonsense, even if he did mentor him.

The notion that Marmion would come to Ulster in the absence of Pienaar is fanciful. The evidence is to the contrary. Nucifora can't force players to come here. He can only force players out.....

I feel the IRFU have shown an incredible lack of loyalty to a servant who has served them well.

Who said he was holding his hand? More like from a shared responsibility to being fully responsible for the team.

As for Marmion not moving from Connacht - Robbie Henshaw moved to further his international ambitions by playing outside Sexton. As an exile as well, who has already moved from Cardiff to further his career, Marmion is far more likely to move to Ulster than some of the other homegrown scrumhalfs who have a very long association with their Province.

edit: IRFU's only loyalty is to the international team. Everyone and everything else is seconardy.

You did, in thinking that now Jackson can be 'the man'.

Leinster isn't Ulster. You're dreaming if you think Marmion would have come to Ulster. It's a pretty feeble attempt to excuse the IRFU, methinks.

Yep, the IRFU's loyalty is to the international team, but that doesn't have to mean they can't show loyalty to those who have served their cause. They have stabbed Pienaar in the back.


Last edited by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:18 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:A succession plan is a great idea in theory but the fact is, we haven't actioned any succession and not just at Ulster. Besides, there isn't any reason why we would when we have a world class scrum-half on our books

You have just answered your own question there. Why would you bother yer holes developing a young scrum half or finding a project like JGP when you have a comfort blanket of one of the best Scrum halves for a 7 year period. QED.

Yes it's hard on you but you either buy into the union controlled set up or you don't. There are also up sides.....

Nonsense. We have had SH's come through and none unseated P. Marshall. You're living in a fantasy world if you really believe we can create an international standard SH from nothing.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

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