South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

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Post by George Carlin on Fri 03 Jun 2016, 12:49 pm

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South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Sa10        South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Irelan10
SOUTH AFRICA v IRELAND
11 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
DHL Newlands, Cape Town

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

22 Played 22
16 Won 5
1 Drawn 1
5 Lost 16
422 Points 277

B. Recent Form

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Al_cot10
15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi 17 Trevor Nyakane 18 Julian Redelinghuys 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit 20 Warren Whiteley 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies 23 Jesse Kriel

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Joe-sc10
J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, L Marshall, K Earls; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, M Ross; I Henderson, D Toner; CJ Stander, J Murphy, J Heaslip

Replacements: S Cronin, F Bealham, T Furlong, U Dillane, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, C Gilroy.


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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 11:42 am

One thing has to improve with Ireland, if it's used as a weapon - and it seems the attempt was being made to use it as such - is the kick chase.

I don't know why Ireland has in latter years become so ordinary at that aspect of the game after being quite potent at it. We just don't get enough leverage there and too often we have the players that don't jump high enough and don't manage to hold on, or fumble the collection if they do make it.

It's much too much miss, miss, hit, miss. Oh for a new f**king Horgan! Wink Has that lad any sons yet? The IRFU should tell him to get a move on if not.

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Post by fa0019 on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 11:47 am

SecretFly wrote:One thing has to improve with Ireland, if it's used as a weapon - and it seems the attempt was being made to use it as such - is the kick chase.  

I don't know why Ireland has in latter years become so ordinary at that aspect of the game after being quite potent at it.  We just don't get enough leverage there and too often we have the players that don't jump high enough and don't manage to hold on, or fumble the collection if they do make it.  

It's much too much miss, miss, hit, miss.  Oh for a new f**king Horgan! Wink  Has that lad any sons yet?  The IRFU should tell him to get a move on if not.

Not one of Keith Earls strengths though... as in a gun dog on the chase. Build the team around your players strengths. Bowe is always good at the kickchase. Although it was perhaps the one thing ROG was good at well bar 2009 when he was "concussed" so I can understand once he left the arena its benefits would go down.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 11:55 am

I was thinking more about Trimble - a lot of heart but can often find he's been beat.... but even Bowe, he's actually quite a lot of hit/miss too on the catching.  When he catches he can make serious inroads but there is a reel or two of over-reaches and finger-scrape misses.

Rob Kearney in his prime and Horgan were monsters at it.  God be with poor Rob.  Please come back into best form, Rob, just one more time please...for old time's sake???

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 11:57 am

I thought the kick chase was phenomenal at the weekend. The aim was to gain territory and it worked really well. The kicking game all round was excellent.

The days of catching teams out wide with the cross field kick are gone, teams are too well organised now.

The only one I'd criticize was Murray box kicking with less than 30 seconds to go!
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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:01 pm

Ruddock for CJ and keep the rest the same.

Go all out for win.

Make a few changes for the last test.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:02 pm

Nah...not talking about cross field...talking about not being impressed by the 'phenomenal' kick chase. Phenomenal kick-chase was Biggar at it a while back (indeed I think it was against Ireland)...him and Halfpenny together.... that can be phenomenal.

That's my kinda kick-chase.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:04 pm

rodders wrote:

The only one I'd criticize was Murray box kicking with less than 30 seconds to go!

Murray was Phenomenal! Wink

A guy I normally reserve some criticism for - one mistake in a game like that?? Come on, rodders. At least slap Paddy on the bum for good measure....

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:05 pm

Fly, Biggar is also pretty ineffective now - these tactics only work for a while, then they get analysed.

The tactics were spot on, as was the execution for the most part.
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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

The only one I'd criticize was Murray box kicking with less than 30 seconds to go!

Murray was Phenomenal!  Wink

A guy I normally reserve some criticism for - one mistake in a game like that??  Come on, rodders.  At least slap Paddy on the bum for good measure....

Paddy won the game, he's not a big time bottler like other 10's we've had....
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:11 pm

rodders wrote:Fly, Biggar is also pretty ineffective now - these tactics only work for a while, then they get analysed.

The tactics were spot on, as was the execution for the most part.

Tactics were anything that kept the ball as far away from our tryline as possible. Execution was often stifled by a South African player collecting with grit between their teeth. Nothing like a nice go forward momentum from a captured high ball. rodders, our kick chase must improve. It's gotta. We could do so much more damage if it did.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:13 pm

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

The only one I'd criticize was Murray box kicking with less than 30 seconds to go!

Murray was Phenomenal!  Wink

A guy I normally reserve some criticism for - one mistake in a game like that??  Come on, rodders.  At least slap Paddy on the bum for good measure....

Paddy won the game, he's not a big time bottler like other 10's we've had....

I lurvvvee the Catsuit, rodders! Wink

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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:30 pm

The Stander incident was a definite red card.

There was no cynical intent and it is fairly clear that Stander jumped as Lambie was kicking, so he couldn't change his trajectory. Murphy was later than Stander and still put his hands up to block but didn't jump.

However the action endangered Lambie and therefore was justifiably a red card. It doesn't matter that it was accidental, so the Commission should uphold the red and probably give CJ a couple of weeks ban.

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Post by Notch on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:42 pm

In terms of pacing ourselves across the series and rotating I think winning the second test represents our best chance of winning the series. Right now they are having a dark night of the soul and facing huge external pressure and criticism from their own government and fans. They don't have the world class leadership the had in the past from guys like Fourie Du Preez, Matfield and Smit who can settle things down in choppy leaders. There's an inexperienced 9 and 10 and a Captain who is new to the role, plus younger heads at lock and at centre.

Yes, there will be a backlash and yes they will go after us in a big way- yes they are hurting and have a massive point to prove. But as we saw with CJ Stander for us, sometimes when you are trying to prove a point and are emotional and under pressure that can turn into a vulnerability and can lead to players losing their judgment. You can see off the ball incidents, niggle, indiscipline, selfish decisions in attack, white line fever etc. At the back of their mind, they know that they didn't get things technically right and if we hold them off and disrupt their patterns and stop them getting the technical side right again, that emotional side of things will overtake them and they may begin to doubt and panic. We'll potentially see uncontrolled aggression creeping in and players trying to make things happen as individuals. Ireland will be calm, know their patterns and technical roles, attack and defend as a team and use controlled aggression. We'll draw confidence from that.

However, if the Boks beat us in the second I think we'll see their confidence and rhythm start to come back and the third will look ominous. They will feel like they have proven the point they were so desperate to prove and the natural order of things has resumed, plus they've had another game together to gel. They won't be nearly as vulnerable mentally if the series is tied up at 1-1. The third test will be a much, much harder game.

For me- we should select for the second as if it is a Cup Final. All or nothing. This is a massive chance for us; we will not play against a more vulnerable SH giant on their home turf again for years to come. We can settle the series with the right game plan and selection while the big movers and shakers in South African sport are still deciding which knife needs to go into which back. We can win if it goes down to the third test, but we'll be underdogs again. Right now we are arguably the favourites and the Boks aren't used to dealing with that.


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Post by Golden on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

The only one I'd criticize was Murray box kicking with less than 30 seconds to go!

Murray was Phenomenal!  Wink

A guy I normally reserve some criticism for - one mistake in a game like that??  Come on, rodders.  At least slap Paddy on the bum for good measure....


He did it twice in the last 5 minutes!  Very Happy Great game nonetheless.


Wonder could we see Ryan/Dillane in and Henderson at 6?  Think Id prefer Ruddock coming straight in and keeping the same team.

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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:56 pm

Notch wrote:For me- we should select for the second as if it is a Cup Final. All or nothing.

So do we stick or twist?

I think stick.

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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:01 pm

I doubt if we will see Ryan involved (particularly at altitude). He hasn't played a game since the middle of April (v Connacht). I would think he was just brought along to provide opposition in training.

The game next week is going to be a killer as its at altitude. This is the Bok's best chance of a win.
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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:03 pm

Golden wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

The only one I'd criticize was Murray box kicking with less than 30 seconds to go!

Murray was Phenomenal!  Wink

A guy I normally reserve some criticism for - one mistake in a game like that??  Come on, rodders.  At least slap Paddy on the bum for good measure....


He did it twice in the last 5 minutes!  Very Happy Great game nonetheless.

Most pundits are saying he did the right thing getting out of Ireland's 22. When Ireland tried running it out, they conceeded a try! The execution of the kick could have been better - either a little bit shorter so that it could have been retrieved or just booted way down the pitch.
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Post by Notch on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:07 pm

Murrays decision to kick was very much like Best's decision to illegally get a foot on that ball on our own line- a high stakes move. If it comes off, he's a hero because we chase, win the ball back and kill the game. If it doesn't it can cost us.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:14 pm

rapidsnowman wrote:
Notch wrote:For me- we should select for the second as if it is a Cup Final. All or nothing.

So do we stick or twist?

I think stick.

Stick but don't be afraid to twist as early as needs be if things unwind.

We don't have the leisure to let ourselves take a bit of a scoreline beating in a first half to then try dragging it back on the 60th minute or so with a horde of fresh troops. The first team worked their socks off in that first game. If they start, there'll need to be empathy for them if they're forced to play hard again from the off - at altitude this time.

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:15 pm

Sin é wrote:Most pundits are saying he did the right thing getting out of Ireland's 22.

Are we talking Donal Lenihan or Alan Quinlan? Wink
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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:20 pm

Paradoxically the red card took all the pressure off Ireland and heaped it onto SA. The Boks have a new captain and a new-look team trying to play more expansive rugby. In short they didn't give Ireland a prayer, thought it would be good prep for the RC and so were caught cold. The same thing happened two years ago when Joe taught them a lesson at Lansdowne. The Boks had decided they could experiment with a wide game against the rookie Henshaw/Payne midfield (and Kearney at FB).

The real problem for the Boks was they didn't know how to use the man advantage - they kept spinning the ball wide without tying up the defence first so defending was made easier. If they had reverted to a one-out or pick-and-go game they would have won. Their half backs had obviously been told to execute the new gameplan and either didn't have the experience or nous to realise they had to change that. Strauss needs to shoulder the responsibility for not adapting to the circumstances, or maybe he thought they could still win with the brave new world rugby?

With the squad selection Joe obviously wanted to play an off-loading game because he knows the only way to beat the Boks is to take them into a game they are inexperienced at. South Africa kindly obliged by picking a team compatible with that strategy!
Henderson was picked at lock but he didn't carry. Why - because the ball was shipped on to avoid the forward collisions. Why was Marshall taken rather than McCloskey - because he is a superior distributor and Joe didn't want the team drawn into a bosh game.

Schmidt is being slated by the usual suspects but he is now arguably the most successful Ireland coach ever. For someone who is deemed to be conservative, he has used far more players than his predecessors. They have invariably gone away from team sessions with work-ons to improve them personally and more importantly Joe has been seen at far more provincial games than his predecessors to witness in person whether the players are improving.

What will be interesting is whether Allister Coetzee will persevere with the wide game for the second test or whether he will play a much tighter set-piece game and use their traditional superiority.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:24 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:.... and more importantly Joe has been seen at far more provincial games than his predecessors to witness in person whether the players are improving.


Trappatoni called him an 'idiote' to his face.

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:24 pm

Notch wrote:Murrays decision to kick was very much like Best's decision to illegally get a foot on that ball on our own line- a high stakes move.

Well it's not at all. Best's was a smart move as the try was coming - if the try comes it's unlikely the ref returns for the yellow, otherwise he takes a yellow for the team to save the try.

Murray's kick was just moronic, he's been pre-programmed to kick on 4th phase but he should have had the wit to look at the clock and realize 2 more phases and we can kick it dead and go home - instead it took a heroic effort from Payne and Jackson to save the day.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:37 pm

rodders wrote:

Murray's kick was just moronic, he's been pre-programmed to kick on 4th phase but he should have had the wit to look at the clock and realize 2 more phases and we can kick it dead and go home - instead it took a heroic effort from Payne and Jackson to save the day.

and saved his own bacon too...as he alluded to in Interview Wink

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

Murray's kick was just moronic, he's been pre-programmed to kick on 4th phase but he should have had the wit to look at the clock and realize 2 more phases and we can kick it dead and go home - instead it took a heroic effort from Payne and Jackson to save the day.

and saved his own bacon too...as he alluded to in Interview Wink

Maybe if Murray gets selected again he can pay Paddy back. Can see Reddan getting the nod though.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:53 pm

We have a hard game to win...can't wait to win it in the third. Murray, if walking, has the physicality to meet an angry as f**k Bok.

But yeah, there's a time an place for Redden in a game of 15 against 15 at some point.

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Post by fa0019 on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:55 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Paradoxically the red card took all the pressure off Ireland and heaped it onto SA. The Boks have a new captain and a new-look team trying to play more expansive rugby. In short they didn't give Ireland a prayer, thought it would be good prep for the RC and so were caught cold. The same thing happened two years ago when Joe taught them a lesson at Lansdowne. The Boks had decided they could experiment with a wide game against the rookie Henshaw/Payne midfield (and Kearney at FB).

The real problem for the Boks was they didn't know how to use the man advantage - they kept spinning the ball wide without tying up the defence first so defending was made easier. If they had reverted to a one-out or pick-and-go game they would have won. Their half backs had obviously been told to execute the new gameplan and either didn't have the experience or nous to realise they had to change that. Strauss needs to shoulder the responsibility for not adapting to the circumstances, or maybe he thought they could still win with the brave new world rugby?

With the squad selection Joe obviously wanted to play an off-loading game because he knows the only way to beat the Boks is to take them into a game they are inexperienced at. South Africa kindly obliged by picking a team compatible with that strategy!
Henderson was picked at lock but he didn't carry. Why - because the ball was shipped on to avoid the forward collisions. Why was Marshall taken rather than McCloskey - because he is a superior distributor and Joe didn't want the team drawn into a bosh game.

Schmidt is being slated by the usual suspects but he is now arguably the most successful Ireland coach ever. For someone who is deemed to be conservative, he has used far more players than his predecessors. They have invariably gone away from team sessions with work-ons to improve them personally and more importantly Joe has been seen at far more provincial games than his predecessors to witness in person whether the players are improving.

What will be interesting is whether Allister Coetzee will persevere with the wide game for the second test or whether he will play a much tighter set-piece game and use their traditional superiority.

I think he will stick with the same team... for the main reasons being that

a) he doesn't really have any plan B/last resort vets to call up.
b) he will lose a lot of credibility if he goes back to the tried and tested methodology of bokke rugby.

Its the same issue Peter De Villiers tried in 2008. His team had more vets such as Smit, Bakkies, Schalk etc so results like this didn't happen but his "new" boks did not convince and lost matches they would on paper win. I've heard they may ask Morne to come in but still, he's in France, he's had no time with the squad so expecting him to be some sort of returning messiah is unrealistic.

Jantjies will be more at home for the 2nd test and the pitch does tend to allow more attacking width. I mean Mapoe received the ball only like 5 times in the match and most of those were simple pass alongs. You don't pick a guy like Mapoe and give him the ball expecting miracles.... he needs teams to set him up, he's not BOD but with the right setup can finish off well.

I'd say there are only a few selections Coetzee can now make.

1. Redlinghuys to start over Malherbe.
2. Du Toit over De Jager.
3. Kolisi to be dropped for Jaco Kriel.
4. Morne to come onto the bench.
5. Maybe, just maybe bring back Jesse Kriel at 13. Without setting up the superior finisher Mapoe, Kriel is better at working 1 on 1s so would be better at run of the mill backline play.

However the above whilst improvements may simply not be enough. De Klerk was good but a little naive, Jantjies was again exposed in pressure rugby and a little out of place. The boks weren't dominant in an facet of the game and facing a smarter opposition than they expected.

So I reckon/hope the team will be

Mtawarira, Strauss, Redlinghuys, Du Toit, Etzebeth, Louw, Kriel, Vermeulen, De Klerk, Jantjies, Mvovo, De Allende, Kriel, Pietersen or Mapoe, Le Roux.

I'd bring back Arno Botha and Lappies Labuschagne from the bulls myself (as a stormers fan) but that ain't going to happen I'm afraid.

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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:18 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Paradoxically the red card took all the pressure off Ireland and heaped it onto SA. The Boks have a new captain and a new-look team trying to play more expansive rugby. In short they didn't give Ireland a prayer, thought it would be good prep for the RC and so were caught cold. The same thing happened two years ago when Joe taught them a lesson at Lansdowne. The Boks had decided they could experiment with a wide game against the rookie Henshaw/Payne midfield (and Kearney at FB).

The real problem for the Boks was they didn't know how to use the man advantage - they kept spinning the ball wide without tying up the defence first so defending was made easier. If they had reverted to a one-out or pick-and-go game they would have won. Their half backs had obviously been told to execute the new gameplan and either didn't have the experience or nous to realise they had to change that. Strauss needs to shoulder the responsibility for not adapting to the circumstances, or maybe he thought they could still win with the brave new world rugby?

With the squad selection Joe obviously wanted to play an off-loading game because he knows the only way to beat the Boks is to take them into a game they are inexperienced at. South Africa kindly obliged by picking a team compatible with that strategy!
Henderson was picked at lock but he didn't carry. Why - because the ball was shipped on to avoid the forward collisions. Why was Marshall taken rather than McCloskey - because he is a superior distributor and Joe didn't want the team drawn into a bosh game.

Schmidt is being slated by the usual suspects but he is now arguably the most successful Ireland coach ever. For someone who is deemed to be conservative, he has used far more players than his predecessors. They have invariably gone away from team sessions with work-ons to improve them personally and more importantly Joe has been seen at far more provincial games than his predecessors to witness in person whether the players are improving.

What will be interesting is whether Allister Coetzee will persevere with the wide game for the second test or whether he will play a much tighter set-piece game and use their traditional superiority.

There is nothing obvious about that. If Rob Kearney & Sexton were fit, he would have started with Payne at 13, Henshaw at 12 - exactly as it was for the 6Ns. Losing Sexton & Kearney meant that he had to try and surround Jackson with players he was familiar with - and he was right to do that as it did work.
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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:43 pm

Sin é wrote:There is nothing obvious about that. If Rob Kearney & Sexton were fit, he would have started with Payne at 13,  Henshaw at 12 - exactly as it was for the 6Ns. Losing Sexton & Kearney meant that he had to try and surround Jackson with players he was familiar with - and he was right to do that as it did work.

Marshall and Olding were both in the squad ahead of McCloskey before Sexton was out injured. Payne was effectively the only experienced 15 cover for Kearney before he had to withdraw - so it is fairly obvious that Joe was going to mix things up a bit in South Africa.

Joe probably planned to use Jackson with some Ulster players around him from the outset, and I agree it was very good selection. It makes far more sense to do that in South Africa where no-one gives you a chance and therefore takes the pressure off, rather than do it in the myopic 6N. Kidney did Jackson no favours when first picking him ahead of ROG and heaping all the media expectations on him.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:45 pm

Jackson killed off ROG?

No wonder the Munster boys are always baiting the Ulster lads...

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:46 pm

SecretFly wrote: Murray, if walking, has the physicality to meet an angry as f**k Bok.

Why would they be angry with him? sure he gives them better ball that their own scrum half Smile
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:51 pm

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote: Murray, if walking, has the physicality to meet an angry as f**k Bok.

Why would they be angry with him? sure he gives them better ball that their own scrum half Smile

...not as good a service to them as our own 10 though. Cool

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:22 pm

Coetzee says Ireland weren't interested in playing rugby.

Shocked

I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder why?

He's right though, Ireland were interested only in the game ending. "Please, Please clock! Hurry the f**k up!"

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Post by rodders on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:37 pm

SecretFly wrote:Coetzee says Ireland weren't interested in playing rugby.

Shocked

That's why we filled our side with Saffers and Kiwis, so we don't have to.
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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:38 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Sin é wrote:There is nothing obvious about that. If Rob Kearney & Sexton were fit, he would have started with Payne at 13,  Henshaw at 12 - exactly as it was for the 6Ns. Losing Sexton & Kearney meant that he had to try and surround Jackson with players he was familiar with - and he was right to do that as it did work.

Marshall and Olding were both in the squad ahead of McCloskey before Sexton was out injured. Payne was effectively the only experienced 15 cover for Kearney before he had to withdraw - so it is fairly obvious that Joe was going to mix things up a bit in South Africa.

Joe probably planned to use Jackson with some Ulster players around him from the outset, and I agree it was very good selection. It makes far more sense to do that in South Africa where no-one gives you a chance and therefore takes the pressure off, rather than do it in the myopic 6N. Kidney did Jackson no favours when first picking him ahead of ROG and heaping all the media expectations on him.

Let me see, if Sexton started on Saturday and Kearney was fullback with that win, I really doubt if Jackson or Marshall would have got much of a look-in unless Ireland won the 2nd Test.

I thought Kidney made a wrong decision by using Jackson then, but even with his poor kicking from the tee Ireland could still have won that game.
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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm

fa0019 - is this what you were trying to upload?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f35/16/53/77/41/cj_jum10.jpg
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Post by fa0019 on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 5:13 pm

Sin é wrote:fa0019 - is this what you were trying to upload?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f35/16/53/77/41/cj_jum10.jpg

do you see a ball in that photo? The ball is literally on planet zog by then!

Na, had taken a snapshot of about the moment it left his foot but I can't upload it for some reason. CJ was about 4 metres (at a guess) away. 2 other players were pretty much in line with CJ but didn't commit to the "forlorn hope" charge down.

I do feel for the guy actually. You could see he was a little messed up inside. I can imagine it was the same when Judas kissed Jesus on the cheek! Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though, you don't want to see things like that, we were all sitting there hoping Eben would have zeroed into his kidneys first! Wink

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 5:25 pm

God, Ireland have gone nowhere in the rankings but we helped England pop up to 3rd.

Sure it wasn't worth turning up for that. 14 men? In South Africa? With Jackson as 10?

Come on! We should have gone up to 2nd! Wink

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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 6:47 pm

fa0019 wrote:
Sin é wrote:fa0019 - is this what you were trying to upload?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f35/16/53/77/41/cj_jum10.jpg

do you see a ball in that photo? The ball is literally on planet zog by then!

Na, had taken a snapshot of about the moment it left his foot but I can't upload it for some reason. CJ was about 4 metres (at a guess) away. 2 other players were pretty much in line with CJ but didn't commit to the "forlorn hope" charge down.

I do feel for the guy actually. You could see he was a little messed up inside. I can imagine it was the same when Judas kissed Jesus on the cheek! Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though, you don't want to see things like that, we were all sitting there hoping Eben would have zeroed into his kidneys first! Wink

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Screen11
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Screen10
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 16 Screen12

Murphy was also attempting the chargedown.
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Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 8:13 pm

CJ is suspended for 1 week.

http://www.the42.ie/cj-stander-ireland-hearing-south-africa-2821731-Jun2016/

A face saving decision for the officials.
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Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

Sin é wrote:CJ is suspended for 1 week.

http://www.the42.ie/cj-stander-ireland-hearing-south-africa-2821731-Jun2016/

A face saving decision for the officials.

Really seems like it, if it was reckless it should have been longer and if it was deliberate he'd be lucky be playing this side of Christmas

'After hearing the evidence and submissions made by Gerrie Swart, representative of the player, the Judicial Officer was not satisfied on the balance of probability that the referee, Mathieu Raynal of France, was wrong when he issued the red card to the player.'

He sent him off in his own words, because he had no chance of getting to the ball, if thats the case it was deliberate

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Post by Guest on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

1 week is the best we could have hoped for. At least we have him ready for the 3rd Test. Maybe we should rest a few players for the 2nd.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 9:28 pm

Yeah.  He himself will be happy with one week.  It'll give him a chance of getting into the real atmosphere of playing on the tour, something that seems to have been bubbling in his veins now for sometime. - that's provided of course Joe chooses him for the final game.  A lot of rugby to be played by then and players are putting their hands up to keep on playing.

Personally speaking though, I don't think the second game should be set aside as a 'rest' game.  Keep the fires burning on this one.  Go for the series win, all guns blazing... presumed best side playing; early substitutions used if required.

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Post by Guest on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 9:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yeah.  He himself will be happy with one week.  It'll give him a chance of getting into the real atmosphere of playing on the tour, something that seems to have been bubbling in his veins now for sometime. - that's provided of course Joe chooses him for the final game.  A lot of rugby to be played by then and players are putting their hands up to keep on playing.

Personally speaking though, I don't think the second game should be set aside as a 'rest' game.  Keep the fires burning on this one.  Go for the series win, all guns blazing... presumed best side playing; early substitutions used if required.

I'm tempted to agree with you, but with revenge very much in the mind of Bok, mixed with the high altitude, I'm not sure the players will be recovered enough to really challenge. If we go for it and lose we're not going to have much left in the tank for the 3rd Test.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 9:52 pm

But if we don't put up enough of a fight (ie. good enough for a win) then we'll allow them to get a head of steam up in confidence levels.  Now is the time to hit them hard, Munch, with a 15 man version of highest intensity Ireland - just when they're expecting us to be preparing ourselves for a hard day at the defending office.  
We're never going to go out expecting to lose of course so maybe it's moot but the intent of winning has to be backed up with the personnel to get it done.

Yes, it would be/will be a tough ask.  But this is a chance to go one better than just a first win.  Not too many sides come away with a series win there.  Plus - we need to try to make all that effort show something on the ranking charts.  As yet we haven't moved. Our goals have to keep rising and we have to keep pushing the envelope on what we expect of our team.  Like I've said, early substitutions to reflect the efforts.

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Post by Guest on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 10:18 pm

Just to win the 1st Test is incredible, especially under the circumstances, but to win a Test series in SA would be ....... something I don't even have a word for. Only an AB team and a Lions side have managed to come away with a win, and that was in the 90's.

I don't know. I think much depends on the fitness levels after the 1st Test, and how they manage the altitude. SA will be looking for revenge. They have all the motivation they need. I fully expect a brutal, incredibly physically demanding, encounter.
The other side of the coin is the confidence levels of the Ireland side will be sky high, and they themselves may be fired up and raring to go for the jugular.

It's just knowing if these guys are ready for round 2 after such a physically and mentally draining encounter at the weekend. I trust the coaching team to make the right calls though. So I'm not overly concerned about selection, although really anxious for a win!

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 2:16 am

Stander out for a week should give him time to cool his heels - he was far too revved up for that match leading to his inept charge down attempt - got what he deserved for his effort.

Henshaw also needs to stick his head in the ice-box - he's a liability at times - too much shooting out of the line looking for the hero move (think he spent too much time around BOD)

If no one is really crocked from last weekend, maybe Schmidt sticks with what worked unless one or two players are really fagged out.

South Africa are going to come gunning at the breakdown and up front. If Morne Steyn is likely to be in the side, can Ireland expect a torrid afternoon at the scrum with SA looking for penalties anywhere within 60m range of the posts given his range and altitude?




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Post by Mr Fishpaste on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 8:12 am

You Irish posters have so much confidence in the Boks ability to bounce back...I'm not so sure...I fear another depressing weekend for us Saffa's...

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 9:35 am

eirebilly wrote:I honestly do believe that Irelands best chance of a win will be in the first match, catching SA cold. Ireland are in decline and the loss of Sexton is huge. As good as I think Jackson (if he gets a match) is, he is going to need some time playing Internationally to feel comfortable. Schmidt really missed the bus in not giving him game time in the 6N and showed an inability to build squad depth. Only injuries forced him to make changes.

Ireland are in decline? Haha.

We have easily the greatest ever coach in our history breaking records all the time.

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 9:40 am

Can't make up my mind on the Stander red. Looks bad on slow mo but it is probably a case of the refs decision once again being influenced by an injury which is the annoying part. Yellow probably would have been fair especially when you judge it against the amount of incidents where Sexton was cleaned out in the World Cup with late challenges without sanction.

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