EU exit - So folks what are you all thinking?

First topic message reminder :

Just curious to know what you all think and what way you will be voting.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).
Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs
What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?
How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:The full title of the Conservative party in the UK is the Conservative and Unionist party.  That's where their roots lie.

If the Tories were interested in Northern Ireland they would have a part on the ground there, like they used to have in Scotland. Their origins go back to the 1801 Act of Union - when there was no such place as Northern Ireland.

The Tory origins go back much further than that.  And how ironic that the very name 'Tory' as used to denote them came from an Irish word 'tóraidhe' - outlaw/robber

Ní tóraí mé agus is fuath liom na tóraithe!!

Ní féidir liom cúram. Tá grá níos faide ná tuiscint an duine. Táimid an duine, táimid an oibrí. Táim sé nGrá le "Barstewards and Broken Things". Is as Tyrion Lannister mé. An Dia na jubblies agus fíon.

Munchkin wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:The full title of the Conservative party in the UK is the Conservative and Unionist party.  That's where their roots lie.

If the Tories were interested in Northern Ireland they would have a part on the ground there, like they used to have in Scotland. Their origins go back to the 1801 Act of Union - when there was no such place as Northern Ireland.

The Tory origins go back much further than that.  And how ironic that the very name 'Tory' as used to denote them came from an Irish word 'tóraidhe' - outlaw/robber

The Conservatives as we know them today were formed in 1834, after the Act of Union.

Anyway, the point is that its the Scottish Union that the Conservatives refer to and

This is a quote from May which will put Munchin in no doubt as to what she thinks about Northern Ireland.

“I do not want the European Union to cause the destruction of an older and much more precious union, the union between England and Scotland,” she said.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/25/uk-must-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-theresa-may-eu-referendum

Come on, Sin é, the context of that sentence is within the threat of the UK leaving the EU, and the threat of a 2nd Scottish referendum should that happen. May had no need to mention NI or Wales.

Also, in reading that article you will note the level of opposition to May wanting to leave ECHR. Plenty of opposition from within her own Party, and Labour. Very few would want the UK to withdraw from ECHR, but there are proposals for reform of ECHR, including a British bill of human rights, whilst remaining within the convention.

It's just May bitching because ECHR delayed the extradition of Hamza. I understand that frustration. I agree that ECHR were wrong to put the UK in a bind, but reform is the way forward, not this stroppy threat to leave. Personally I think it's no more than playing hardball negotiations to get their way. Leaving ECHR won't happen.

Just for the record, Wales was subsumed into the Kingdom of England in the mid 1500s - long before the Act of Union of Great Britain and Ireland.

Well, hopefully May isn't a Maggie Thatcher who wouldn't listen to anyone else. To be honest, I find it shocking that the probably next British PM would either not know or doesn't care anyway how dependent the Good Friday Agreement is on the ECHR. May just bitching about Hamza is definately an indicator as to what her priorities are.

Pot Hale wrote:I'm curious Doc, as a Brit, who do you see as "our four nations"?  Is it all of Ireland or Northern Ireland only?  Or does it change depending on the circumstances?

I was only mentioning the four nations in Rugby terms. And they are clearly England, Australia, New Zealand, and south Africa..................

OK, the traditional Home Nations: White, Green, Red, and Blue.

For the rest, one is part of UK, my country, or not. We do have a unique relationship with ROI, including open borders which we do not have anywhere else. But that is another story.

Someone here once described us all as a bunch of pasty white dudes speaking funny. The ties that bind............

The Good Friday Agreement is dependent on the majority of the populations in both the Republic and Northern Ireland wanting and demanding continued Peace.  That's all the Good Friday Agreement or any future replacement agreements require to function.  The People stopped the conflict, not Governments.  Governments were forced to find the route that gave a voice to the majority of people on this island wanting Peace.

It doesn't require any Prime Minister in Westminster or Taoiseach in Dublin moaning about ECHR or Hamza etc etc.  It requires the will of the people North and South, through voting power, to keep our politicians honest and true in the pursuit of a common Peace that serves all of us together.

Just noticed this thread.

I am mostly thinking about sex and the chicken burger I am going to have at lunchtime.

George Carlin wrote:Just noticed this thread.

I am mostly thinking about sex and the chicken burger I am going to have at lunchtime.

I wish my life was so simple!!

SecretFly wrote:The Good Friday Agreement is dependent on the majority of the populations in both the Republic and Northern Ireland wanting and demanding continued Peace.  That's all the Good Friday Agreement or any future replacement agreements require to function.  The People stopped the conflict, not Governments.  Governments were forced to find the route that gave a voice to the majority of people on this island wanting Peace.

It doesn't require any Prime Minister in Westminster or Taoiseach in Dublin moaning about ECHR or Hamza etc etc.  It requires the will of the people North and South, through voting power, to keep our politicians honest and true in the pursuit of a common Peace that serves all of us together.

I agree completely' ( but am disregarding the ECHR for this post ) .

Its the first thought on my mind. And a huge priority is to set in stone Relations between nations that are so integral, to our wy of life and the peace in the British Isles/Ireland and UK)

However The EU really doesn't care one iota about it. And would never want to set a president where an EU referendum could potentially try to split up other Nations in the EU like Spain, Belgium, The Netherlands, etc as there are also cries for that - I think in honesty the EY would rather Ire come out at the same time)

The UK and Ireland has had free movement of people and trade since way before the EU - and that needs to be dealt with in as painless way as possible. I am not sure its Just May that is not mentioning issues with the NI or Ire, its just that the NI does not have a First Leader like Crankie who is very local and gets herself in the media)

But if we (UK and IRE) all had a vote on just the freedom of movement between Ire and the UK - it would be a 99% keep)

Weve already sent up our sales reps.

http://allblacks.com/News/30263/excitement-builds-for-the-nz-lions-series-2017

Slightly concerned we are putting so much store balancing Brexit with a US agreement, when that country is careering all over the place.

When Mrs May refuses to speak out but the guy who for the last few months has been rounding up the press and any dissenters and imprisoning them does...... Well

carpet baboon wrote:When Mrs May refuses to speak out but the guy who for the last few months has been rounding up the press and any dissenters and imprisoning them does...... Well

 Are you talking about the Al Jazeera reporters in Egypt?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:When Mrs May refuses to speak out but the guy who for the last few months has been rounding up the press and any dissenters and imprisoning them does...... Well

 Are you talking about the Al Jazeera reporters in Egypt?

I think he's referring to Gats and his opinion on the damn stubborn and disrespectful Scots.

So, if Scotland has another referendum and votes to leave the UK, will we be left with a 2 Nations championship, consisting of England and Wales?

If NI could scrape together a decent rugby team, it could still be a Northern Hemisphere tri-nations tournament.

dyrewolfe wrote:So, if Scotland has another referendum and votes to leave the UK, will we be left with a 2 Nations championship, consisting of England and Wales?

If NI could scrape together a decent rugby team, it could still be a Northern Hemisphere tri-nations tournament.

England and Wales games? More than one a year?

Well there would be the trigger that starts that WW3, that's all the rage these days. WW3 is the new black.

happily, the 6 nations will be completely unaffected by brexit, trump, le pen, whatever.

that's one of the great things about sports. they transcend war. and politics doesnt even cause a ripple in sports. apart from apartheid obviously!

.... and FIFA with corruption, blackmail and bribery used to select Host cities.
.... and Russian drugs scandals leading to innocent Russian athletes being banned in a cover-punishment for the last Olympics.
.... and corruption, blackmail and bribery to assist Olympic Host city nominations.
.... and racism in sport
.... and US Postal Cycling Team


I'm sure there are a few more if I had time to think about it.

well, the decision is bad and I think that probably a huge mistake.

Some of the predictions or assumptions at the start of this topic make for interesting reading given where things are currently.

Its been an interesting thread to read back on - a lot has happened in the last year - Marty gone, Stormont gone, DUP pulling Tories strings, Enda gone. Rodders bang on with his posts. The border situation in Ireland isn't looking good.

Where is Fly? Is he still on his 606 summer hols?

Sin é wrote:Its been an interesting thread to read back on - a lot has happened in the last year - Marty gone, Stormont gone, DUP pulling Tories strings, Enda gone. Rodders bang on with his posts. The border situation in Ireland isn't looking good.

Where is Fly? Is he still on his 606 summer hols?

Well it has turned out even worse than I thought!

What a fooking shambles....

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Good Friday Agreement is dependent on the majority of the populations in both the Republic and Northern Ireland wanting and demanding continued Peace.  That's all the Good Friday Agreement or any future replacement agreements require to function.  The People stopped the conflict, not Governments.  Governments were forced to find the route that gave a voice to the majority of people on this island wanting Peace.

It doesn't require any Prime Minister in Westminster or Taoiseach in Dublin moaning about ECHR or Hamza etc etc.  It requires the will of the people North and South, through voting power, to keep our politicians honest and true in the pursuit of a common Peace that serves all of us together.

I agree completely' ( but am disregarding the ECHR for this post ) .

Its the first thought on my mind. And a huge priority is to set in stone Relations between nations that are so integral, to our wy of life and the peace in the British Isles/Ireland and UK)

However The EU really doesn't care one iota about it. And would never want to set a president where an EU referendum could potentially try to split up other Nations in the EU like Spain, Belgium, The  Netherlands, etc as there are also cries for that - I think in honesty the EY would rather Ire come out at the same time)

The UK and Ireland has had free movement of people and trade since way before the EU - and that needs to be dealt with in as painless way as possible. I am not sure its Just May that is not mentioning issues with the NI or Ire, its just that the NI does not have a First Leader like Crankie who is very local and gets herself in the media)

But if we (UK and IRE) all had a vote on just the freedom of movement between Ire and the UK - it would be a 99% keep)

It is obvious UK is never going to pass any law stopping freedom of movement for Irish citizens travelling to or living and working in the UK. We never had any such laws before the EU and nobody is proposing them now. Similarly I am pretty sure that Ireland does not want to impose any restrictions on UK citizens travelling to the Irish Republic. As far as I can see the only organisation with any such thoughts is the EU.

Exiledinborders wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Good Friday Agreement is dependent on the majority of the populations in both the Republic and Northern Ireland wanting and demanding continued Peace.  That's all the Good Friday Agreement or any future replacement agreements require to function.  The People stopped the conflict, not Governments.  Governments were forced to find the route that gave a voice to the majority of people on this island wanting Peace.

It doesn't require any Prime Minister in Westminster or Taoiseach in Dublin moaning about ECHR or Hamza etc etc.  It requires the will of the people North and South, through voting power, to keep our politicians honest and true in the pursuit of a common Peace that serves all of us together.

I agree completely' ( but am disregarding the ECHR for this post ) .

Its the first thought on my mind. And a huge priority is to set in stone Relations between nations that are so integral, to our wy of life and the peace in the British Isles/Ireland and UK)

However The EU really doesn't care one iota about it. And would never want to set a president where an EU referendum could potentially try to split up other Nations in the EU like Spain, Belgium, The  Netherlands, etc as there are also cries for that - I think in honesty the EY would rather Ire come out at the same time)

The UK and Ireland has had free movement of people and trade since way before the EU - and that needs to be dealt with in as painless way as possible. I am not sure its Just May that is not mentioning issues with the NI or Ire, its just that the NI does not have a First Leader like Crankie who is very local and gets herself in the media)

But if we (UK and IRE) all had a vote on just the freedom of movement between Ire and the UK - it would be a 99% keep)

It is obvious UK is never going to pass any law stopping freedom of movement for Irish citizens travelling to or living and working in the UK.  We never had any such laws before the EU and nobody is proposing them now.  Similarly I am pretty sure that Ireland does not want to impose any restrictions on UK citizens travelling to the Irish Republic. As far as I can see the only organisation with any such thoughts is the EU.

EU doesn't have a problem with common travel area. They do have a problem however (as does Ireland) with trade which will require a customs border to be put in place.

By the way, Ireland didn't always have free trade between Ireland and UK (in fact it had a 10 year trade war just before the WWII).

I'm afraid that the only way the common travel area can exist in it's current form is if NI (or the UK) remain in the custom union as proposed but the EU. Border controls would then exist between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain.

If not then some form of border control must exist along the NI border, otherwise it renders the whole point of Brexit redundant as the UK would still have an open border with the EU via Ireland.

However the first issue around this is this - the Unionists would see it as a separation from the UK to facilitate closer Irish integration, and the DUP would never allow that as partners in government.

Secondly Scotland would look for a similar arrangement, which the UK government would never allow as business would flood from England across the border to remain in the single market.

The UK position seems to be we are all going to sink together, and make no mistake the UK is sinking big time and fast.

So this new UK passport looks a lot more like the US passport than the old "black" one.

#51stState?

LondonTiger wrote:So this new UK passport looks a lot more like the US passport than the old "black" one.

#51stState?

Funny comment, mate. Living in New Jersey, the 3rd state to join the union, I can tell you many states here might be looking to bail on the US concept and go back and join Mother England. Anything to get away from the current President. We could have 5 Home Nations.............

Makes sense that the PM would try to join a party just as the rest are leaving

rodders wrote:I'm afraid that the only way the common travel area can exist in it's current form is if NI (or the UK) remain in the custom union as proposed but the EU. Border controls would then exist between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain.

If not then some form of border control must exist along the NI border, otherwise it renders the whole point of Brexit redundant as the UK would still have an open border with the EU via Ireland.

However the first issue around this is this - the Unionists would see it as a separation from the UK to facilitate closer Irish integration, and the DUP would never allow that as partners in government.

Secondly Scotland would look for a similar arrangement, which the UK government would never allow as business would flood from England across the border to remain in the single market.

The UK position seems to be we are all going to sink together, and make no mistake the UK is sinking big time and fast.

There is a lot of Love sacks talked on both sides. Even though I voted to remain I did not buy the idea that leaving with no deal is a total disaster any more than I swallowed Farage's land of milk and honey talk. Plenty of countries trade with the EU without being in a customs union. I do not think we should accept the Irish Government's bullying. If it has to be no deal then so be it. How that helps the Irish is beyond me. As far as I can see it means a hard border and extremely bad relations with their nearest neighbour.

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:I'm afraid that the only way the common travel area can exist in it's current form is if NI (or the UK) remain in the custom union as proposed but the EU. Border controls would then exist between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain.

If not then some form of border control must exist along the NI border, otherwise it renders the whole point of Brexit redundant as the UK would still have an open border with the EU via Ireland.

However the first issue around this is this - the Unionists would see it as a separation from the UK to facilitate closer Irish integration, and the DUP would never allow that as partners in government.

Secondly Scotland would look for a similar arrangement, which the UK government would never allow as business would flood from England across the border to remain in the single market.

The UK position seems to be we are all going to sink together, and make no mistake the UK is sinking big time and fast.

There is a lot of Love sacks talked on both sides. Even though I voted to remain I did not buy the idea that leaving with no deal is a total disaster any more than I swallowed Farage's land of milk and honey talk.  Plenty of countries trade with the EU without being in a customs union.  I do not think we should accept the Irish Government's bullying. If it has to be no deal then so be it. How that helps the Irish is beyond me. As far as I can see it means a hard border and extremely bad relations with their nearest neighbour.

You've forgotten though that there is an agreement that the border will be down the Irish Sea if there isn't an agreement. That will still hit Ireland hard financially, but socially (and economically) putting a border between NI & ROI would be a disaster.

Sin é wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:I'm afraid that the only way the common travel area can exist in it's current form is if NI (or the UK) remain in the custom union as proposed but the EU. Border controls would then exist between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain.

If not then some form of border control must exist along the NI border, otherwise it renders the whole point of Brexit redundant as the UK would still have an open border with the EU via Ireland.

However the first issue around this is this - the Unionists would see it as a separation from the UK to facilitate closer Irish integration, and the DUP would never allow that as partners in government.

Secondly Scotland would look for a similar arrangement, which the UK government would never allow as business would flood from England across the border to remain in the single market.

The UK position seems to be we are all going to sink together, and make no mistake the UK is sinking big time and fast.

There is a lot of Love sacks talked on both sides. Even though I voted to remain I did not buy the idea that leaving with no deal is a total disaster any more than I swallowed Farage's land of milk and honey talk.  Plenty of countries trade with the EU without being in a customs union.  I do not think we should accept the Irish Government's bullying. If it has to be no deal then so be it. How that helps the Irish is beyond me. As far as I can see it means a hard border and extremely bad relations with their nearest neighbour.

You've forgotten though that there is an agreement that the border will be down the Irish Sea if there isn't an agreement. That will still hit Ireland hard financially, but socially (and economically) putting a border between NI & ROI would be a disaster.

The border down the Irish Sea only comes into place if there is an agreement between the UK and the EU and that agreement does not come up with an alternative[/list]

The UK via Dominic Raab has been quite clear in the event of a complete no deal everything provisionally agreed to date is not agreed either. So that means no deal on any payments and no deal on Ireland.

I don't think there is any argument over the fact that countries outside of the EU do just fine. Of course they haven't spent 40 years integrating their systems with the EU in the first place which does tend to help.

The biggest problem is in getting to 'there' from 'here'. How long, how expensive (loss of trade/jobs/whole industries new regulatory authorities/ customs etc) and how on earth we even start with no plan and a government with no clue. The whole 'nobody can predict what will happen therefore everything will be OK' argument is just feckin dumb beyond belief.

It is also a fact that many countries do very well out of being inside the EU, and nobody else is looking to leave.

Exiledinborders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:I'm afraid that the only way the common travel area can exist in it's current form is if NI (or the UK) remain in the custom union as proposed but the EU. Border controls would then exist between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain.

If not then some form of border control must exist along the NI border, otherwise it renders the whole point of Brexit redundant as the UK would still have an open border with the EU via Ireland.

However the first issue around this is this - the Unionists would see it as a separation from the UK to facilitate closer Irish integration, and the DUP would never allow that as partners in government.

Secondly Scotland would look for a similar arrangement, which the UK government would never allow as business would flood from England across the border to remain in the single market.

The UK position seems to be we are all going to sink together, and make no mistake the UK is sinking big time and fast.

There is a lot of Love sacks talked on both sides. Even though I voted to remain I did not buy the idea that leaving with no deal is a total disaster any more than I swallowed Farage's land of milk and honey talk.  Plenty of countries trade with the EU without being in a customs union.  I do not think we should accept the Irish Government's bullying. If it has to be no deal then so be it. How that helps the Irish is beyond me. As far as I can see it means a hard border and extremely bad relations with their nearest neighbour.

You've forgotten though that there is an agreement that the border will be down the Irish Sea if there isn't an agreement. That will still hit Ireland hard financially, but socially (and economically) putting a border between NI & ROI would be a disaster.

The border down the Irish Sea only comes into place if there is an agreement between the UK and the EU and that agreement does not come up with an alternative[/list]

The UK via Dominic Raab has been quite clear in the event of a complete no deal everything provisionally agreed to date is not agreed either. So that means no deal on any payments and no deal on Ireland.

Don't know how that is going to work out. The discussion for a new trade deal won't start until the UK leaves the EU.

Noel Edmunds might be needed to negotiate something substantial. Enough of this messing about - Brexit needs to go Realihee TV!

SecretFly wrote:Noel Edmunds might be needed to negotiate something substantial.  Enough of this messing about - Brexit needs to go Realihee TV!

I thought it already has. We currently have a section called 'dance for a trade deal (that we already have)'. Theresa May has been entered for this challenge

Has brexit happened yet?

Nah. Ya always gotta vote twice in Europe, innit.

Well better to be sure to be sure. You don’t want a small turnout leading to a democratic deficit. But hey that kind of view doesn’t suit

It suits the EU. Vote, vote and vote again until the 'right' answer appears. Can't be having 'wrong' answers in a supranational democracy.

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:The full title of the Conservative party in the UK is the Conservative and Unionist party.  That's where their roots lie.

If the Tories were interested in Northern Ireland they would have a part on the ground there, like they used to have in Scotland. Their origins go back to the 1801 Act of Union - when there was no such place as Northern Ireland.

The Tory origins go back much further than that.  And how ironic that the very name 'Tory' as used to denote them came from an Irish word 'tóraidhe' - outlaw/robber

Ní tóraí mé agus is fuath liom na tóraithe!!

Ní féidir liom cúram. Tá grá níos faide ná tuiscint an duine. Táimid an duine, táimid an oibrí. Táim sé nGrá le "Barstewards and Broken Things". Is as Tyrion Lannister mé. An Dia na jubblies agus fíon.

Something's wrong with your keyboard there, Notch.

SecretFly wrote:It suits the EU.  Vote, vote and vote again until the 'right' answer appears.  Can't be having 'wrong' answers in a supranational democracy.

It’s interesting that people complain that the eu is undemocratic and yet then complain when the most democratic tool is used. Take Lisbon I missed the first vote because I was out of the country and was glad to get a chance to vote. Most of my colleagues/friends/aquaintances were also glad to get the opportunity to get up off their lazy behinds and put the record straight in a much larger turnout. It was a wake up call to people that their vote counted and not to disrespect it.

I could try to come up with some witty put down or something semi drool but couldn’t be bothered. I remember the backward economy and social backwater this place was and now see an emerging confidence especially in my own kids and their view on the world. They won’t accept the old style thinking and mental midgets that ideas like brexit are about or the view of the world you put forward.

Whilst I fully understand what Fly is saying and I agree with some of his observations I have to say that I really want another vote on whether the UK remains in or leaves the EU. I was a remain voter the first time around which I know for some will put me in to the category of “sore loser” but I truly think that the reality of the situation is becoming apparent to many people and they deserve a chance for another say. Add to this that there was illegal funding by certain campaign groups as well as a likelihood of interference from an external nation then surely the only logical thing to do is to go again. I would hope that if another referendum was held turn out would be higher - can’t remember the exact figure but only something like 36% of the electorate voted to leave I think and this excluded eu citizens living in the uk and uk citizens based elsewhere in the eu.

I think some folk thought that leaving the eu would result in some quick economic gains but i don’t hear those claims being made anymore. In fact even the delightful Mr Mogg predicted that it could be 50 years until any real benefits are felt! Whilst I am confident that the UK (in whatever form) will eventually make a success of of life outside of the eu I feel that we are much better off inside it helping to shape and change things whilst working in collaboration with our near neighbours.

Apologies for such a political post on a sports forum but hopefully it will be allowed on what is a political thread. Apologies also to those whose views may be very different to mine, I completely respect your point of view but just can’t understand it! I am also aware that in a rugby sense I am like Bath asking for a rematch!!

quinsforever wrote:happily, the 6 nations will be completely unaffected by brexit, trump, le pen, whatever.

that's one of the great things about sports. they transcend war. and politics doesnt even cause a ripple in sports. apart from apartheid obviously!

Errmmm seeing as no deal or remain are the only options possible as May is in thrall to the DUP who are killing the deal with their insistence on no backstop for NI which we have actually already agreed

without new laws being made no visas for French and italian teams to enter and play in the UK.  Republic based players for ireland similarly.  Remember they are not visitors they are workers.  Great difficulties in even getting here as no flights or ferries will be running.

Brexit has the potential to destroy the 6N

TJ wrote:

quinsforever wrote:happily, the 6 nations will be completely unaffected by brexit, trump, le pen, whatever.

that's one of the great things about sports. they transcend war. and politics doesnt even cause a ripple in sports. apart from apartheid obviously!

Errmmm seeing as no deal or remain are the only options possible as May is in thrall to the DUP who are killing the deal with their insistence on no backstop for NI which we have actually already agreed

without new laws being made no visas for French and italian teams to enter and play in the UK.  Republic based players for ireland similarly.  Remember they are not visitors they are workers.  Great difficulties in even getting here as no flights or ferries will be running.

Brexit has the potential to destroy the 6N

Nice Doomsday scenario there, TJ.

I guess if the problems of Brexit transition means that sporting events would be stopped in their tracks bluntly, without any contingencies, just players stopped at borders and told to go home...... fans being denied entry at ports and airports...............

I guess if all that is happening, then sport will be the very least of people's worries at the time and much more serious everyday disruptions will be fixating the minds of Europe's peoples, industries, trucking companies etc.

But I doubt such a blunt (one day you can come in, the next day you get kicked out or stopped at border) scenario will happen. It would serve nobody...not the UK and not the EU. Pragmatism will happen...eventually.

Remember " nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"
this means that without an agreement on NI there will be no deal.  NO agreement on NI is possible without breaching someones red lines.  therefore no deal is possible, and the doomsday scenario happens.  ~this is by far the most likely scenario now.

Especially since May agreed the NI backstop ages ago and now wants to renege on it givinf the EU real cause for concern and a determination to have it all wrapped up in legally binding treaties

May also has no majority in parliament for any deal she has proposed.  Best case scenario is that Mays government falls, EU agree an extension to article 50 while a new government is formed that is not deluded and in thrall to the DUP

TJ wrote:Remember " nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"
this means that without an agreement on NI there will be no deal.  NO agreement on NI is possible without breaching someones red lines.  therefore no deal is possible, and the doomsday scenario happens.  ~this is by far the most likely scenario now.

Especially since May agreed the NI backstop ages ago and now wants to renege on it givinf the EU real cause for concern and a determination to have it all wrapped up in legally binding treaties

May also has no majority in parliament for any deal she has proposed.  Best case scenario is that Mays government falls, EU agree an extension to article 50 while a new government is formed that is not deluded and in thrall to the DUP

Everyone political entity involved in reaching the Belfast agreement had their 'red lines' crossed, therefore it is must be Barnier et al who struggle with the concept of crossing theirs.

Not on NI.  GFA means there must be an open border on the island of ireland.  May agreed a solution of "full regulatory alignment alignment" without time limit  in order to progress talks.

There is only one  solution to this if the UK as a whole wants to move away from regulatory alignment.  Border in the irish sea.  The DUP will not allow this.  The EU is already bending its rules greatly to allow this.

Wasn't the referendum asking if voters wanted the UK to leave the EU, rather than for NI to leave the UK?

Except that ni voted to stay in the eu. However that of course doesn’t matter as it was a uk wide vote (except that doesn’t matter when it comes to other issues when it’s ni only). When a whole lot of your gdp is being subsidised by the uk govt you wouldn’t want to rock that boat (except when it suits of course)

EU needs to simply admit the game is over.  DOD will love that idea....  

The game is up.  The EU was tried, it isn't working, European Nations still exist, still want to exist - and they all could try something else.
History is full of major resets when things don't work.  Unfortunately, it usually takes a war to bring about the reset.  Pity that humans are so stubborn.  
Let's try doing the New Way peacefully this time?  Decide together to kill off the parasitic, overblown bureaucratic EU gravy train for nod nod lobbyists and pointless talk-shop invisible MEPs

- go back to the purity of the beginning - an ordinary, boring trading bloc without the grandiose United States of Europe politburo crud.

The growing resistant and 'disobedient' Nations aren't the problem - the EU itself is. Even the fanboys will eventually realise the truth.

Go back to the old days! Yep that just about sums up you and the xenophobic brexiteers idea.

Genuine question fly. What is it you object to specifically with regards to the eu? Freedom of movement? The single market? I am not a great fan Of the united Europe idea but I don’t see it as a huge issue. I don’t see a threat from it  whereas you have been clear in that you believe it to be some big German conspiracy.