€1.835m

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€1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Mon 06 Jun 2016, 9:13 am

First topic message reminder :

That's the compensation that Mourad is claiming from World Rugby because of the Test Match Calendar and Player Release. From my very limited knowledge on this, I think that French law is on Mourad's side.

Let's hope that he wins, if for no other reason than to force a sensible rugby calendar.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 9:29 am

Ha, yeah of course. I'm assuming that you also hold the view that BT will pay for the Welsh to join the England (whatever price it takes).

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 9:41 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha, yeah of course. I'm assuming that you also hold the view that BT will pay for the Welsh to join the England (whatever price it takes).

Well, they did offer to previously.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 9:48 am

No they didn't phil.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 9:51 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:No they didn't phil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10540773/Crisis-in-Wales-goes-to-the-brink-as-regions-refuse-to-sign-new-deal-with-Welsh-Rugby-Union.html

Mate, give it up. Please.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:03 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:No they didn't phil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10540773/Crisis-in-Wales-goes-to-the-brink-as-regions-refuse-to-sign-new-deal-with-Welsh-Rugby-Union.html

Mate, give it up. Please.

Do you know how you know that story is bs?

The regions required such a guarantee before deciding to break away from the WRU

Any cross-border competition would require union ratification

The regions cant break away from the WRU unless they were planning to play their games outside of Wales Rolling Eyes

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:15 am

PhilBB wrote:Cheers for the thoughts and insults, bois. I've made my point clearly on way too many threads for it to be interesting any longer.

I have my belief about what is best for Welsh rugby and I've yet to read a reasoned counter argument that challenges that belief. I've argued with a few of you on here and, in differing measures, been met with inaccuracies, the arrogance of stupidity, mocking, loathing, fear and general silliness. That's fair enough, I give (sometimes more) as good as I get.

Let's see what the future brings for our game.

As have others made their distinct points clearly on too many threads.  A debate means you'll always be met by an alternative view.  

The alternative view directed at you most often, Phil, is that the issues of what is best for Welsh rugby are yours to deal with.  That's not arrogance or mockery, fear, loathing or silliness.  It's the truth.
Therefore, when you put the case that either the AP (English rugby) should modify itself to offer a better future for Welsh rugby - or - that the IRFU (Irish Rugby) should dismantle what works for them to offer a better future for Welsh Rugby, many here say that's counter-intuitive to their own ideals about what's best for Rugby in their own Nations.

Wales is a Rugby Nation onto itself, but so often your solutions for the problems within it revolve around rival Nations disrupting their own systems to offer a lifeline.

AND - this notion is never presented as a 'Please' or a good natured request tone - it's always presented on the back of a bite, a snap, a sideways sneer, an isolated stat, an insult, an attempt at ridicule, a presumption of being the only one always and ever in charge of thread facts.

A Change of tone would get you much quieter, much more empathetic responses.  But that's your business, personally I think you like a more 'robust' version of debate.  You'll continue to do things your way, and the rest of us will do likewise.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:No they didn't phil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10540773/Crisis-in-Wales-goes-to-the-brink-as-regions-refuse-to-sign-new-deal-with-Welsh-Rugby-Union.html

Mate, give it up. Please.

2013. The Welsh are swimming in cash now then?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:15 pm

To expand I don't believe that was an offer, but even if true they clearly didn't offer whatever it took as it never happened. the financial landscape has altered tremndously since (hence the jealous looks towards the prem) also.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:38 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:No they didn't phil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10540773/Crisis-in-Wales-goes-to-the-brink-as-regions-refuse-to-sign-new-deal-with-Welsh-Rugby-Union.html

Mate, give it up. Please.

Do you know how you know that story is bs?

The regions required such a guarantee before deciding to break away from the WRU

Any cross-border competition would require union ratification

The regions cant break away from the WRU unless they were planning to play their games outside of Wales Rolling Eyes

They were prepared to go the High Court about that, so the story is not BS.

Sorry.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
2013. The Welsh are swimming in cash now then?

Are you going to be constantly this silly?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:To expand I don't believe that was an offer, but even if true they clearly didn't offer whatever it took as it never happened. the financial landscape has altered tremndously since (hence the jealous looks towards the prem) also.

The WRU believed it was an offer as they acknowledged it in a letter to the Welsh Assembly.

So, sorry, you're also wrong. You and Martyn.

It's not a problem as you clearly wouldn't have followed the story as closely as others, but it does get a little tiresome to see this attempt at revisionism based on a total lack of exposure to the subject.

Honestly, just accept that you (And Martyn, and many others) have it wrong.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:45 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:No they didn't phil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10540773/Crisis-in-Wales-goes-to-the-brink-as-regions-refuse-to-sign-new-deal-with-Welsh-Rugby-Union.html

Mate, give it up. Please.

Do you know how you know that story is bs?

The regions required such a guarantee before deciding to break away from the WRU

Any cross-border competition would require union ratification

The regions cant break away from the WRU unless they were planning to play their games outside of Wales Rolling Eyes

They were prepared to go the High Court about that, so the story is not BS.

Sorry.

Except the High Court wouldn't be the court to go to for it, it'd be CAS

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:50 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Except the High Court wouldn't be the court to go to for it, it'd be CAS

You go to CAS after local courts, Martyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/20/welsh-rugby-union-regions-dispute-high-court

Mate, it's getting boring now. You keep interjecting with this kind of thing and each time I prove it to be complete drivel.

Please desist. Learn the lesson.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/feb/03/premiership-rugby-wales-regions-anglo-welsh-league

"The clubs and the regions have both taken legal advice and are prepared to go to the high court to win the right for self-determination"

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:52 pm

And so on....

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:55 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Except the High Court wouldn't be the court to go to for it, it'd be CAS

You go to CAS after local courts, Martyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/20/welsh-rugby-union-regions-dispute-high-court

Mate, it's getting boring now. You keep interjecting with this kind of thing and each time I prove it to be complete drivel.

Please desist. Learn the lesson.

Actually one of the points of CAS is to avoid going through the courts, hence the A in the initials.

Paul Rees and Phil say otherwise so it must be wrong

After all it does say ' Regions and governing body unlikely to reach an agreement' and we all know that's the case Whistle

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:02 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Actually one of the points of CAS is to avoid going through the courts, hence the A in the initials.

Paul Rees and Phil say otherwise so it must be wrong

After all it does say ' Regions and governing body unlikely to reach an agreement' and we all know that's the case Whistle

I'm not sure of the purpose of that post, sorry. I think it was some kind of cathartic attempt from you to divert attention from your errors.

High Court first and, probably, only.

What kinds of dispute can be submitted to the CAS ?
Any disputes directly or indirectly linked to sport may be submitted to the CAS. These may be disputes of a commercial nature (e.g. a sponsorship contract), or of a disciplinary nature following a decision by a sports organisation (e.g. a doping case).

http://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-information/frequently-asked-questions.html

This was about trade, not contractual or disciplinary matters.

Please, Martyn, have a little self awareness here.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:04 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Actually one of the points of CAS is to avoid going through the courts, hence the A in the initials.

Paul Rees and Phil say otherwise so it must be wrong

After all it does say ' Regions and governing body unlikely to reach an agreement' and we all know that's the case Whistle

I'm not sure of the purpose of that post, sorry. I think it was some kind of cathartic attempt from you to divert attention from your errors.

High Court first and, probably, only.

What kinds of dispute can be submitted to the CAS ?
Any disputes directly or indirectly linked to sport may be submitted to the CAS. These may be disputes of a commercial nature (e.g. a sponsorship contract), or of a disciplinary nature following a decision by a sports organisation (e.g. a doping case).

http://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-information/frequently-asked-questions.html

This was about trade, not contractual or disciplinary matters.

Please, Martyn, have a little self awareness here.

Ill just leave that there Whistle

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:06 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:To expand I don't believe that was an offer, but even if true they clearly didn't offer whatever it took as it never happened. the financial landscape has altered tremndously since (hence the jealous looks towards the prem) also.

The WRU believed it was an offer as they acknowledged it in a letter to the Welsh Assembly.

So, sorry, you're also wrong. You and Martyn.

It's not a problem as you clearly wouldn't have followed the story as closely as others, but it does get a little tiresome to see this attempt at revisionism based on a total lack of exposure to the subject.

Honestly, just accept that you (And Martyn, and many others) have it wrong.

So they offered the money it would take, adn it didn't happen.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:07 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Ill just leave that there Whistle

The example of the commercial involvement is contractural, ffs.

Somebody who knows Martyn - please have a word with him, will you?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
So they offered the money it would take, adn it didn't happen.

Yep. Instead PRW took part ownership of the new European Competition, in order to maintain their existence.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:11 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Ill just leave that there Whistle

The example of the commercial involvement is contractural, ffs.

Somebody who knows Martyn - please have a word with him, will you?

And PRW not being allowed to enter into a contract without WRUs approval does not fit that bill, sorry its all clear now

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:

And PRW not being allowed to enter into a contract without WRUs approval does not fit that bill, sorry its all clear now

PRW can enter in to any contract they like without the WRU approval. The issue was, as you pointed out above, World Rugby's regulation about home games being played in the country of the Union the team is registered with.

That would have been the challenge in the High Court, not about entering into a contract.

Schooling you so often is getting distasteful. It really is. Please do yourself the favour and move on to comment only on topics you know something about.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:17 pm

Its not like they rule on the application of sporting regulations or anything like that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8538702.stm

Tumbleweed

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:21 pm

marty2086 wrote:Its not like they rule on the application of sporting regulations or anything like that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8538702.stm

Tumbleweed

It isn't a sporting regulation. It's about allowing a GB registered company to trade in GB.

Please, Martyn, do yourself a favour. You're desperately Googling to try to prove me wrong but all you're proving is that you don't understand the subject.

You're making yourself look extremely thick.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:25 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
So they offered the money it would take, adn it didn't happen.

Yep. Instead PRW took part ownership of the new European Competition, in order to maintain their existence.

So they didn't offer whatever it would take.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Its not like they rule on the application of sporting regulations or anything like that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8538702.stm

Tumbleweed

It isn't a sporting regulation. It's about allowing a GB registered company to trade in GB.

Please, Martyn, do yourself a favour. You're desperately Googling to try to prove me wrong but all you're proving is that you don't understand the subject.

You're making yourself look extremely thick.

Saying it doesn't make it so, World Rugby regulations give WRU and any union responsibility for governance within their borders but keep telling yourself your right and arguing the minutiae to mask how often you are wrong

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
So they didn't offer whatever it would take.

Pass. The offer wasn't taken, however. May not have been anything to do with the money, more the hassle involved.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:43 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Saying it doesn't make it so, World Rugby regulations give WRU and any union responsibility for governance within their borders but keep telling yourself your right and arguing the minutiae to mask how often you are wrong

I wrote that BT offered the money. I proved that they offered the money. I wrote that the High Court was where the dispute would have gone and I proved that.

I've offered no 'minutiae'. I have simply and easily disproved your claims. And, because I did, you ran around doing your excitable puppy routine trying to prove me wrong and failing to do so. This behaviour of yours is on repeat and, frankly, is as tiresome as it is distasteful.


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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:57 pm

No you provided a claim they did that doesn't amount to proof, this whole thing is part of the minutiae to try and prop up your fantasy of an Anglo Welsh league

You have been provided statements from the CEO of the IRFU saying the provinces are owned by the clubs, yet still argue the opposite. Coming from someone directly related to the situation is greater proof that a journalist reporting something and he does not provide anything supporting his claim of where it will end up and actually appears to be an assumption on his part based on the dispute being unresolved.

You have presented two separate articles taking separate lines from each to try and make a complete argument

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:04 pm

marty2086 wrote:No you provided a claim they did that doesn't amount to proof, this whole thing is part of the minutiae to try and prop up your fantasy of an Anglo Welsh league

You have been provided statements from the CEO of the IRFU saying the provinces are owned by the clubs, yet still argue the opposite. Coming from someone directly related to the situation is greater proof that a journalist reporting something and he does not provide anything supporting his claim of where it will end up and actually appears to be an assumption on his part based on the dispute being unresolved.

You have presented two separate articles taking separate lines from each to try and make a complete argument

I haven't argued the opposite from Browne at all. I even wrote the answer out for you, referencing him.

I have shown that the WRU knew of the agreement with PRW and PRL, how BT Sport were willing to pay for it and how any challenge to the WRU blocking it would have gone to the High Court. My club have been to the High Court with the WRU before.

That you can't follow that is not my problem. It's solely yours. One you really should address.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:05 pm

This thread is distasteful, uses debating techniques that are extremely thick, is full of drivel and is rather quite silly....

Let's ask a Moderator to close it down then.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:07 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
So they didn't offer whatever it would take.

Pass. The offer wasn't taken, however. May not have been anything to do with the money, more the hassle involved.

They didn't offer the amount of money it took to do it. they didn't offer whatever it takes. Got there in the end. And now the finances involved have changed.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
They didn't offer the amount of money it took to do it. they didn't offer whatever it takes. Got there in the end. And now the finances involved have changed.

You're poorly conflating two separate issues.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:10 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
They didn't offer the amount of money it took to do it. they didn't offer whatever it takes. Got there in the end. And now the finances involved have changed.

You're poorly conflating two separate issues.

They didn't offer the amount of money to get the job done did they?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:This thread is distasteful, uses debating techniques that are extremely thick, is full of drivel and is rather quite silly....

Let's ask a Moderator to close it down then.

They are quite silly, but wholly true.

I've had enough of proving the sky is blue.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
They didn't offer the amount of money to get the job done did they?

They may have done.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:15 pm

But the job wasn't done. Something else still outweighed it, so not enough was offered.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:No you provided a claim they did that doesn't amount to proof, this whole thing is part of the minutiae to try and prop up your fantasy of an Anglo Welsh league

You have been provided statements from the CEO of the IRFU saying the provinces are owned by the clubs, yet still argue the opposite. Coming from someone directly related to the situation is greater proof that a journalist reporting something and he does not provide anything supporting his claim of where it will end up and actually appears to be an assumption on his part based on the dispute being unresolved.

You have presented two separate articles taking separate lines from each to try and make a complete argument

I haven't argued the opposite from Browne at all. I even wrote the answer out for you, referencing him.

I have shown that the WRU knew of the agreement with PRW and PRL, how BT Sport were willing to pay for it and how any challenge to the WRU blocking it would have gone to the High Court. My club have been to the High Court with the WRU before.

That you can't follow that is not my problem. It's solely yours. One you really should address.

No you provided two articles, one saying it would go to high court but no mention of a BT offer and one talking of a BT offer but no mention of high court. Seems strange that that two reporters have close sources who can provide a juicy detail like either to them but not the other?

The WRU were told an offer was made? I regularly read of deals and agreements being made that turn out to be as truthful as if it was announced by Donald Trump

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 4:08 pm

The bottom line though Phil is that "that was then and this is now" and once PRL got their TV deal sorted out, set up the "new Champions Cup (sponsors to be announced at some point), blew a whole lot money moving the HQ to Switzerland then the Welsh were surplus to requirements and the rug was pulled again, if they'd really wanted you you'd be there now, but once you served your purpose you're dumped back to the PRO12 again.

Now what reasons in 2016 are there to have the Welsh in, and what actual proposals are on the table for it ?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 4:09 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:The bottom line though Phil is that "that was then and this is now" and once PRL got their TV deal sorted out, set up the "new Champions Cup" (sponsors to be announced at some point), blew a whole lot money moving the HQ to Switzerland then the Welsh were surplus to requirements and the rug was pulled again, if they'd really wanted you you'd be there now, but once you served your purpose you're dumped back to the PRO12 again.

Now what reasons in 2016 are there to have the Welsh in, and what actual proposals are on the table for it ?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 4:29 pm

So the answer to the last 4 pages of this thread is €1.835m? Seems simple enough.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Sponsored content Today at 6:33 pm


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