€1.835m

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€1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Mon 06 Jun 2016, 9:13 am

First topic message reminder :

That's the compensation that Mourad is claiming from World Rugby because of the Test Match Calendar and Player Release. From my very limited knowledge on this, I think that French law is on Mourad's side.

Let's hope that he wins, if for no other reason than to force a sensible rugby calendar.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 8:53 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Hardly skews it when they are all operating on a similar footing and within the same limitations compared to those breaking the rules to gain an advantage but that's the model you want, maybe you should just move to London you'll be in heaven there sure

Its skewed because they are not all operating on a similar footing. They are not subject to the same limitations. They can't even decide their own employees, ffs.

That little, sad, jibe you make at the salary cap is so telling. What escapes you when you do that is the fact that the IRFU don't operate a salary cap. They just choose who is going to have a better chance to win and who isn't, which is substantially worse than a private company noting none of its members were able to be shown to breaking a private rule.

Any PRL cap affects PRL. PRL only. It's their league. It's of no concern to Union owned gerrymandered teams not in charge of their own staff, budget, direction or future.

All hail Nucifora.

3 provinces receive the same funding and a fourth catching up yet not on a similar footing  Rolling Eyes

The NZ 'franchises' which you claim are privately owned don't get to choose their own staff either

The provinces dont operate under a salary cap they have a budget, something quite a few privately owned teams don't operate under. Not sure how they choose whos going to have a better chance of winning but Im sure you'll conjure up some backward logic for it.

By the way, shutting down an investigation is a nice way of saying you can't show noones broken the rules


We also have NIQ's which are more effective than a salary cap. Phil knows all this but chooses to ignore as it destroys his pointless agenda.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 9:12 pm

And claiming that Bath and Sarries didn't break the salary cap is particularly funny

Brian Moore wrote:I have spoken to, amongst others, at least four people from different clubs, who were present at the meeting when Premiership Rugby privately announced the results of salary cap investigations. Mark McCafferty, their CEO, announced that a confidential deal had been concluded on their behalf whereby some clubs had come to a commercial settlement to settle differences over the salary cap.

In a moral maze of which Kafka would have been proud it is scarcely believable, but true, that Premiership Rugby won’t tell their own clubs the amount of the settlements or confirm the methods. It is likely there will be an uneven distribution of BT Sport broadcast income and other opaque channels used. What will not be done is no lump sum will be paid by the settling clubs because that might look like a fine; it also might be picked up in the accounts.



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Re: €1.835m

Post by beshocked on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 9:07 am


Marty 2086 what does it matter to you? Irish rugby fans don't know what a salary cap is. It's an alien concept.

I know you like to sit in your ivory towers and say that your system is better etc. You don't have the moral high ground because you have no salary cap.

Munchkin limiting NIQs is not the same as having a salary cap. I know you like to pretend it is but it's not.







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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 9:38 am

beshocked wrote:
Marty 2086 what does it matter to you? Irish rugby fans don't know what a salary cap is. It's an alien concept.

I know you like to sit in your ivory towers and say that your system is better etc. You don't have the moral high ground because you have no salary cap.

Munchkin limiting NIQs is not the same as having a salary cap. I know you like to pretend it is but it's not.


Wow what a Phil like response, a few points for you. At no stage have I said the Irish approach is better than a salary cap in fact I have said that different approaches work for different people. You say a salary cap is alien to the Irish yet they operate on a budget which is essentially what a salary cap is so it seems you're a bit off there Rolling Eyes

Munchkin didn't say limiting NIQs was the same as a salary cap, he said it was more effective, maybe you'll tell us that's what he really meant


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Re: €1.835m

Post by beshocked on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 9:51 am

A budget isn't essentially the same as a salary cap..... Stop pretending it is. You have a different system. A system which has no salary cap.

More effective or not it's still not the same as a salary cap.


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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 9:53 am

beshocked wrote:A budget isn't essentially the same as a salary cap..... Stop pretending it is. You have a different system. A system which has no salary cap.

More effective or not it's still not the same as a salary cap.


Right so both set limits on spending and are in no way similar, right as always Phil thumbsup

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Re: €1.835m

Post by beshocked on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:01 am

There's no limit of spending in Ireland. That's the point. No salary cap.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:05 am

beshocked wrote:There's no limit of spending in Ireland. That's the point. No salary cap.

Other than the limits set by the IRFU you mean?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by beshocked on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:21 am

IRFU can spend as much as they want.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:28 am

beshocked wrote:IRFU can spend as much as they want.

Really? I think they can spend what they've got but they set budgets for the provinces annually

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Sin é on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:26 am

beshocked wrote:There's no limit of spending in Ireland. That's the point. No salary cap.

The salary cap is fairly ineffective in England. IRFU's cap is far more demanding.

Munster had lined Vincent Koch to come to Munster next season for the IRFU to block the signing. Munster signed Andress who probably cost as much as he is IQed. Munster's loss is Saracen's gain.


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Re: €1.835m

Post by carpet baboon on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:29 am

beshocked wrote:IRFU can spend as much as they want.

What you mean like Saracens did? Then did a behind closed doors deal to stop it going public? Wow I I'll let them know immediately.

PS can you give me Saracens accounting and legal teams numbers?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:43 am

beshocked wrote:IRFU can spend as much as they want.

Great!

I want them to spend 16 billion on each of the four Provinces next season. Writing the letter to them right now.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Munchkin on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:44 am

beshocked wrote:
Marty 2086 what does it matter to you? Irish rugby fans don't know what a salary cap is. It's an alien concept.

I know you like to sit in your ivory towers and say that your system is better etc. You don't have the moral high ground because you have no salary cap.

Munchkin limiting NIQs is not the same as having a salary cap. I know you like to pretend it is but it's not.







As a Sarries fan you may want to stay well clear of any mention of 'moral high ground' Laugh

I didn't say NIQ's were the same as a salary cap. I said they were more effective. Think about it. The NIQ's are clearly visible. As we have seen with certain teams within AP, the salary cap isn't, and is open to abuse.

Now, think about how limiting the NIQ's are. Think on how we can only buy in 4 NIQ's, and so even if we were rolling in money we wouldn't be able to spend it all on top quality foreign signings. So although it isn't a salary cap it does limit our spend. I'm not complaining about it. I think it's best for the Provinces and Ireland.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:None of them (AP sides) could be shown to have broken a private rule (private??? - thought it was all up and above board over there?) because it was swept under that carpet again - officially, so as not to 'damage the product' in marketing terms for BT, Aviva and the rest.

Another example of making up League Rules as you go along to please the 'funders'.  No wonder FIFA and FI Racing were in trouble - the sponsors/backscratchers and CEOs are writing the rules of the sports they take over - and deciding who wins and loses.

All Hail Nucifora.

PRL is a private company. Why are you conflating private with not 'above board'? It seems an odd tactic.

If you look at DNACG and the NRL, you'll see that breaches of salary caps do not negatively affect the marketing of the product.

And the analogy with FIFA is a real drunken ramble.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:13 pm

Munchkin wrote:
No, Browne does not agree with you. You wrongly claimed that the Irish model isn't working in professional rugby. It is, so you are wrong. It is also a fluid model which is something that you have failed to understand.

If SKY pull out we will just have to make do with what we have. You make the absurd claim that if SKY pulled out we have no other option but to play in the English system, as if that is a real option. It isn't. It is just your fantasy. It's not real, Phil. The fact that you fail to grasp the obvious reality of that is staggering.

Wake up, Phil. It was all a dream.

Browne notes the need for private involvement but the, weak, structural difficulties in doing so. Hence, he agrees with me.

If Sky pull out, the Welsh teams will either fold or move to the English system. That's the reality. It's not a dream, although I can see why it is an Irish nightmare.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:13 pm

Munchkin wrote:
You are an idiot if you believe that.

Go on then, explain.....

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:14 pm

Fold it is.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:14 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Without the PRO12 the Regions would die. The Regions do not have a viable alternative. It is your life support. It's that simple.


With the PrO'12, PRW will definitely die. That's the bit you don't understand, it seems.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:15 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Phil why do you think the PRL would save the region's s if the Pro12 went under?
What facts do you have that shows they would want the region's
What facts do you have that the WRU/RFU would allow the region's s to join

I'm guessing it's a very short list of facts

1. History.
2. The long time standing association when needed, dating back 20 years from the time before the Rebel Season, the Loyalty Agreement, the Moffett shambles of 2003 and Lewis in 2014.
3. None, just as I have none that they would block it.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by carpet baboon on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:16 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Phil why do you think the PRL would save the region's s if the Pro12 went under?
What facts do you have that shows they would want the region's
What facts do you have that the WRU/RFU would allow the region's s to join

I'm guessing it's a very short list of facts

1. History.
2. The long time standing association when needed, dating back 20 years from the time before the Rebel Season, the Loyalty Agreement, the Moffett shambles of 2003 and Lewis in 2014.
3. None, just as I have none that they would block it.

So not one fact

But a quick edit to give you one fact why welsh teams will not end up in the english system.
The new agreement between PRL and the RFU


Last edited by carpet baboon on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:20 pm

PhilBB wrote:If Sky pull out, the Welsh teams will either fold or move to the English system. That's the reality. It's not a dream, although I can see why it is an Irish nightmare.

PhilBB wrote:With the PrO'12, PRW will definitely die. That's the bit you don't understand, it seems.

You have to love how Phils ego elevates his opinion to fact

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:21 pm

So paint a rosy picture of a perfect future there, Phil, whilst we're waiting.  We could all do with a lift as the Summer seems to have deserted us again.

Paint a picture of a perfect world some....em... 10 years down the line.  

A B&I League....

Who is on top, who is at the bottom?  Who has been saved from the brink of bankruptcy and who has been sacrificed for the greater good of this thing you call Them (France) and Us.  

How many of 'US' would you project to be in the top five of the future perfect League? Name the sides - 10 years down the line.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:24 pm

marty2086 wrote:
3 provinces receive the same funding and a fourth catching up yet not on a similar footing  Rolling Eyes

The NZ 'franchises' which you claim are privately owned don't get to choose their own staff either

The provinces dont operate under a salary cap they have a budget, something quite a few privately owned teams don't operate under. Not sure how they choose whos going to have a better chance of winning but Im sure you'll conjure up some backward logic for it.

By the way, shutting down an investigation is a nice way of saying you can't show noones broken the rules


3 do not receive the same funding as the National Contracts skew that.

The franchises are privately owned. We went through this last time to prove that you didn't understand what a franchise license was. I don't care if they are gerrymandered as much.

The recent example of Munster shows that the 'budget' is irrelevant.

Who has a better chance of winning? By covering losses, blocking signings, encouraging signings etc.

The investigation wasn't 'shut down'.

So, all in all, you got everything wrong.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:25 pm

Munchkin wrote:
We also have NIQ's which are more effective than a salary cap. Phil knows all this but chooses to ignore as it destroys his pointless agenda.

That's utter nonsense. In fact, it's completely illogical.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:26 pm

beshocked wrote:
Marty 2086 what does it matter to you? Irish rugby fans don't know what a salary cap is. It's an alien concept.

I know you like to sit in your ivory towers and say that your system is better etc. You don't have the moral high ground because you have no salary cap.

Munchkin limiting NIQs is not the same as having a salary cap. I know you like to pretend it is but it's not.


Quite right.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:
beshocked wrote:There's no limit of spending in Ireland. That's the point. No salary cap.

Other than the limits set by the IRFU you mean?

Like the ones on Munster? Those limits?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:27 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Phil why do you think the PRL would save the region's s if the Pro12 went under?
What facts do you have that shows they would want the region's
What facts do you have that the WRU/RFU would allow the region's s to join

I'm guessing it's a very short list of facts

1. History.
2. The long time standing association when needed, dating back 20 years from the time before the Rebel Season, the Loyalty Agreement, the Moffett shambles of 2003 and Lewis in 2014.

3. None, just as I have none that they would block it.

Two very sentimental, nostalgic, non-Cold hearted, non-modern Professionalism reasons there, Phil.  Can you see how positively 'Irish' those tradition'n'culture reasons are?

The world has changed.  The Unions are crumbling to dust.  But you still pander to sentimentality for the past to attract hard-headed self-made men who have time and time again shown how little they value the past and its traditions?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:29 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Phil why do you think the PRL would save the region's s if the Pro12 went under?
What facts do you have that shows they would want the region's
What facts do you have that the WRU/RFU would allow the region's s to join

I'm guessing it's a very short list of facts

1. History.
2. The long time standing association when needed, dating back 20 years from the time before the Rebel Season, the Loyalty Agreement, the Moffett shambles of 2003 and Lewis in 2014.
3. None, just as I have none that they would block it.

So not one fact

But a quick edit to give you one fact why welsh teams will not end up in the english system.
The new agreement between PRL and the RFU

Not one fact? Other than the four mentioned in answer 2.

The new agreement allows for change agreed by both parties.

Sorry.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:30 pm

marty2086 wrote:
You have to love how Phils ego elevates his opinion to fact

It's quite plain, Martyn. Welsh domestic professional rugby is being kept alive by forces external to the PrO'12.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:32 pm

What benefit to the English would saving the Welsh (who are really struggling) over just taking the top Irish (with the big European standing)?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:33 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What benefit to the English would saving the Welsh (who are really struggling) over just taking the top Irish (with the big European standing)?

In how many threads do you expect the same question to be answered multiple times?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:34 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
3 provinces receive the same funding and a fourth catching up yet not on a similar footing  Rolling Eyes

The NZ 'franchises' which you claim are privately owned don't get to choose their own staff either

The provinces dont operate under a salary cap they have a budget, something quite a few privately owned teams don't operate under. Not sure how they choose whos going to have a better chance of winning but Im sure you'll conjure up some backward logic for it.

By the way, shutting down an investigation is a nice way of saying you can't show noones broken the rules


3 do not receive the same funding as the National Contracts skew that.

The franchises are privately owned. We went through this last time to prove that you didn't understand what a franchise license was. I don't care if they are gerrymandered as much.

The recent example of Munster shows that the 'budget' is irrelevant.

Who has a better chance of winning? By covering losses, blocking signings, encouraging signings etc.

The investigation wasn't 'shut down'.

So, all in all, you got everything wrong.

So does that mean the WRU have their thumb on the scales in Wales with the NDCs? Funny though that the team with the least central contracts won the Pro 12, seems your conspiracy theories about the IRFU seem to back fire on them Doh

No it was you who had the issue around the licenses in NZ, mainly a failure to admit you were wrong as shown by now talking about them as licenses as I had to encourage you to go read up on the difference between a franchise and a license Laugh

The budget isn't irrelevant as Munster failed to raise enough revenue to fulfil their budget as they had anticipated to bring in more ticket revenue

So your argument is that Munster have less chance of success because the IRFU might cover their losses and that Munster have less chance of success because they have had signings blocked? Shocked Erm Headscratch


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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:35 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
You have to love how Phils ego elevates his opinion to fact

It's quite plain, Martyn. Welsh domestic professional rugby is being kept alive by forces external to the PrO'12.

Yes the WRU, as the private owners want the rewards without the risk

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:43 pm

marty2086 wrote:
So does that mean the WRU have their thumb on the scales in Wales with the NDCs? Funny though that the team with the least central contracts won the Pro 12, seems your conspiracy theories about the IRFU seem to back fire on them  Doh

No it was you who had the issue around the licenses in NZ, mainly a failure to admit you were wrong as shown by now talking about them as licenses as I had to encourage you to go read up on the difference between a franchise and a license Laugh  

The budget isn't irrelevant as Munster failed to raise enough revenue to fulfil their budget as they had anticipated to bring in more ticket revenue

So your argument is that Munster have less chance of success because the IRFU might cover their losses and that Munster have less chance of success because they have had signings blocked? Shocked Erm Headscratch


Yes, NDCs skew the system in Wales.

All players in Ireland are centrally contracted, in effect. We know this. Trying to hold this season, where Connacht won fewer league points out side of the international windows than did the Ospreys, as any kind of norm would be incredibly stupid. Connacht have always been the fourth team, for good reason.

There is no difference between a franchise and a license in the context of Super Rugby Franchises. You, somehow, still can't grasp this.

Budget is a set spend, not a set income. It seems that we can add that to the list of business and accounting terms that you don't understand.

My logic is that the IRFU determine who is successful and who isn't. They skew the market. The four branches of the IRFU are not independent, do not rise or fall by their own actions and, therefore, do not provide equal competition with non-Union owned teams. My point is consistent. It's just a shame that it has to be spelt out to the incredibly dumb at each point.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:44 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Yes the WRU, as the private owners want the rewards without the risk

Fair play, that is the most moronic comment I have ever read from you and that includes your inability to count to 23 and your thought that Ulster Rugby Ltd got the money from the UK government, so it has real competition.

You couldn't be more bloody wrong if you tried.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 3:58 pm

If you don't let your players (all of them) play full contact, full intensity Pro12 rugby then yes, it ain't going to be making you much money. Fans know when they're being conned.

The PRW is on a go-slow. A work-to-rule get-out strike.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Munchkin on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 4:00 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
No, Browne does not agree with you. You wrongly claimed that the Irish model isn't working in professional rugby. It is, so you are wrong. It is also a fluid model which is something that you have failed to understand.

If SKY pull out we will just have to make do with what we have. You make the absurd claim that if SKY pulled out we have no other option but to play in the English system, as if that is a real option. It isn't. It is just your fantasy. It's not real, Phil. The fact that you fail to grasp the obvious reality of that is staggering.

Wake up, Phil. It was all a dream.

Browne notes the need for private involvement but the, weak, structural difficulties in doing so. Hence, he agrees with me.

If Sky pull out, the Welsh teams will either fold or move to the English system. That's the reality. It's not a dream, although I can see why it is an Irish nightmare.

What 'weak structural difficulties'? Sure you're not confusing the Irish model with the Welsh?

No, the reality is that you will fold. End of. Your dream of moving across the bridge is fantasy, Phil. There's pills for this sort of delusion.

What Irish nightmare? Irish rugby is doing just fine, and in the face of present challenges. True that if the PRO12 folded it would present a massive challenge, but just as much, if not more so, to the WRU and the Regions. It isn't going to happen though. The Regions can't survive without it, and neither can the rest of us.

Keep trying in vain to pull the life support plug out, Phil. As fruitless as your agenda is, it does provide amusement Hug

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Re: €1.835m

Post by carpet baboon on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 4:04 pm

Phil the one person who kept suggesting that the PRL wanted you is now very very quite. No one else in the PRL or RFU want or need or think it's a good idea.

That individual was privately giving assurances about things he didn't have control over but coveted above all. The people he promised the pot of gold too have been left a little annoyed, and the ones who he was trying to knife in the back know all about it and those he was suposed to be working with want nothing to do with him.

The welsh will never join the english. There is a possibility in the future of an expanded European league but that will include unions, and right now it's nothing more than a list of ifs buts and maybes.

The French and English care about themselves first and everyone else dosent mater one bit to them, they will not put themselves out to save or help any other union or team.

History counts for nothing.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 4:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:There is no difference between a franchise and a license in the context of Super Rugby Franchises. You, somehow, still can't grasp this.

There is in a business structure context though, which you fail to grasp

PhilBB wrote:Budget is a set spend, not a set income. It seems that we can add that to the list of business and accounting terms that you don't understand.

I never said it was a set income as you well know, Munsters budget was set based on their ticket revenue to be x but they brought in the lower amount of y though their spending was not adjusted accordingly meaning they were under budget but had spent more than they raised. Funny you didn't apply your mind reading ability there champ Whistle

PhilBB wrote:My logic is that the IRFU determine who is successful and who isn't. They skew the market. The four branches of the IRFU are not independent, do not rise or fall by their own actions and, therefore, do not provide equal competition with non-Union owned teams. My point is consistent. It's just a shame that it has to be spelt out to the incredibly dumb at each point.

The IRFU provide the funds based on theirs and the provinces needs, as a Ulster fan I may envy Leinster and their squad but don't see it as them being favoured for success even though there are grumbles at times about favouritism the fact that Leinster are capable of having a conveyor belt of talent and is a big part of their success. Having money and resources is all well and good but contrary to your opinion it does not guarantee success, you call others dumb yet fail to grasp that teams that are privately owned could have as much money pumped in as their owners deem fit meaning that the competition still isn't equal, the only difference is the source of the income. Maybe take a day and consider that one but then again the source is your problem rather than fairness

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Re: €1.835m

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 4:37 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What benefit to the English would saving the Welsh (who are really struggling) over just taking the top Irish (with the big European standing)?

In how many threads do you expect the same question to be answered multiple times?

Once will do as long as its a sensible answer.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Irish Londoner on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 5:20 pm

Go on Phil, one business reason that the Welsh are ever going to get into a league with the English, that includes resolutions to the following points:
1 - How does the league work with four extra teams ?
2 - What happens to the Championship clubs who want to be in the Aviva - if we can take four extra Welsh teams why not expand with English clubs?
3 - Will the Welsh clubs be competitive without WRU money behind them - I assume the WRU won't spend money for them to play in an English league ?
4 - Since part of the financial agreement between the RFU and PRL is for the development of academy players and future England players, how will the Welsh fans feel about paying to develop players for England ?
5 - Where will the extra money come from to make up for a 16 way split from a 12 way split ?
6 - How will Welsh sides qualify for Europe ?
7 - Other than a brief comment from Nigel Wray is there any evidence that the PRL want Welsh sides ?

Thanks,
IL

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 7:56 pm

Irish, dont you know Phil is a business genius on par with Donald Trump. Everybody else is dumb and unable to comprehend their disjointed and incoherent logic so should get lost and accept their position without question

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Re: €1.835m

Post by TJ on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:10 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Now Fly, you're being completely unreasonable.  Do you really want clubs to be run by Unions, which are there to promote the sport from local amateur through to Test level, a sporting body that is a union of the individual rugby clubs across the country, with those clubs in turn being controlled by the club members, the die-hard supporters of the game and ambassadors for the sport?

No thank you Fly, how can that ever be seen as fair?  I'd much prefer for a comic book billionaire to own a club and pick'n'choose the rules of the game that should be applied.

seems to work well for the irish and scots :-)

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 10:29 am

Munchkin wrote:

What 'weak structural difficulties'? Sure you're not confusing the Irish model with the Welsh?

No, the reality is that you will fold. End of. Your dream of moving across the bridge is fantasy, Phil. There's pills for this sort of delusion.

What Irish nightmare? Irish rugby is doing just fine, and in the face of present challenges. True that if the PRO12 folded it would present a massive challenge, but just as much, if not more so, to the WRU and the Regions. It isn't going to happen though. The Regions can't survive without it, and neither can the rest of us.

Keep trying in vain to pull the life support plug out, Phil. As fruitless as your agenda is, it does provide amusement Hug

You missed out a comma. His moan that he couldn't sell of the pro teams because of the structural difficulties of ownership was weak.

If PRW fold, the IRFU have no opposition, as you've noted. You need PRW. PRW don't necessarily need the IRFU.

It's not me pulling the plug, champ. Not me.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 10:30 am

marty2086 wrote:
There is in a business structure context though, which you fail to grasp

Erm, how can I fail to grasp it when I had to point out to you the language used in New Zealand? You've applied some GCSE / Key Stage 2 meaning you learned years ago and put it in the wrong context to try to appear to be clever, as you normally do. And, as you normally do, you failed.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by marty2086 on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 10:37 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
There is in a business structure context though, which you fail to grasp

Erm, how can I fail to grasp it when I had to point out to you the language used in New Zealand? You've applied some GCSE / Key Stage 2 meaning you learned years ago and put it in the wrong context to try to appear to be clever, as you normally do. And, as you normally do, you failed.

And I had to point out that the language didn't reflect the structure picard

Just another example of Phil arguing in circles and trying to belittle instead of saying he was wrong. Phil I don't need to appear to be clever or right, I leave that to you

Nice of you to ignore the ret though, another tactic used to avoid saying you were wrong


Last edited by marty2086 on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: €1.835m

Post by SecretFly on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 10:38 am

PRW don't necessarily need the IRFU.

'Necessarily' acknowledges the opposite might be true.

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Re: €1.835m

Post by Irish Londoner on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 11:03 am

So Phil, any answers ?

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Re: €1.835m

Post by PhilBB on Wed 15 Jun 2016, 11:11 am

Irish Londoner wrote:Go on Phil, one business reason that the Welsh are ever going to get into a league with the English, that includes resolutions to the following points:
1 - How does the league work with four extra teams ?
2 - What happens to the Championship clubs who want to be in the Aviva - if we can take four extra Welsh teams why not expand with English clubs?
3 - Will the Welsh clubs be competitive without WRU money behind them - I assume the WRU won't spend money for them to play in an English league ?
4 - Since part of the financial agreement between the RFU and PRL is for the development of academy players and future England players, how will the Welsh fans feel about paying to develop players for England ?
5 - Where will the extra money come from to make up for a 16 way split from a 12 way split ?
6 - How will Welsh sides qualify for Europe ?
7 - Other than a brief comment from Nigel Wray is there any evidence that the PRL want Welsh sides ?

Thanks,
IL

1. Conferences or a two division system with all PRL members.
2. Few do want the expense of pro rugby, few have the facilities. Those who have both are, with the exception of London Welsh, PRL members.
3. A daft assumption. The services provided to the WRU will remain the same. If the WRU pay for services in a cross border league already, why have you made that daft assumption?
4. That's irrelevant. It's just a cross border league as we have already.
5. The broadcasters.
6. The same way they do now.
7. Other than the HoT and the constant support in the professional era when called upon, you mean?

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Re: €1.835m

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