Saxons v SA(A) 1st Test - 10th June (Friday Night)

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 07 Jun 2016, 3:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

England Saxons match-day 23 for first game against South Africa ‘A’

15. Mike Haley (Sale Sharks)
14. Alex Lewington (London Irish)
13. Nick Tompkins (Saracens)
12. Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby, 1 senior England cap)
11. Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby, 1 senior England cap)
10. Danny Cipriani (Wasps, 14 senior England caps)
9. Dan Robson (Wasps)

1. Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs)
2. Tommy Taylor (Wasps, 1 senior England cap)
3. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 16 senior England caps)
4. Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 23 senior England caps) (C)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
6. Donovan Armand (Exeter Chiefs)
7. Matt Kvesic (Gloucester, 3 senior England caps)
8. Sam Jones (Wasps)

Replacements:

16. George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons)
17. Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
18. Jake Cooper-Woolley (Wasps)
19. Mitch Lees (Exeter Chiefs)
20. Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)
21. Micky Young (Newcastle Falcons)
22. Sam James (Sale Sharks)
23. Christian Wade (Wasps, 1 senior England cap)

South Africa ‘A’:

15 Leolin Zas
14 Travis Ismaiel
13 Francois Venter
12 Howard Mnisi
11 Courtnall Skosan
10 Garth April
9 Nic Groom

8 Nizaam Carr
7 Oupa Mohoje (c)
6 Sikhumbuzo Notshe
5 Stephan Lewies
4 JD Schickerling
3 Vincent Koch
2 Scarra Ntubeni
1 Thomas du Toit

Replacements: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Lizo Gqoboka, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Jean-Luc du Preez, 21 Piet van Zyl, 22 Francois Brummer, 23 Lukhanyo Am


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 08 Jun 2016, 2:06 pm

Oh a number of reasons. Mainly I would think that Lancaster was trying to build up the core experience, easpecially in that back row. Just saying you can't criticise him for not grasping an opportunity he hasn't had.

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Post by beshocked on Wed 08 Jun 2016, 2:11 pm

Sure.... that's why Lancaster picked Clark in the warm ups of the RWC....

Maybe he has been unfairly overlooked. Personally I would need convincing that Kvesic is good enough.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 08 Jun 2016, 2:13 pm

I'm not saying he deserves a shot, just he hasn't had one.

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Post by Cumbrian on Wed 08 Jun 2016, 2:22 pm

It's an exciting Saxons backline, I want to see what Tompkins can do, I haven't seen much of him since his U20s days. Looking forward to seeing what Sam James can do off the bench too, if he was at a more fashionable team he would be talked up a lot more.

I feel it is slightly too early for Charlie Ewels, but he looked good for the U20s and I feel has a shot at international representation in the future (although he is going to have to be very good to displace any of the incumbents).

Sam Jones is an interesting one at number 8, from what I remember of him he was more of an athletic player in the Tom Wood mould.
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 08 Jun 2016, 2:29 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm not saying he deserves a shot, just he hasn't had one.
I agree 100% with this.


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Post by ChequeredJersey on Wed 08 Jun 2016, 5:31 pm

I like the Saxons team. It isn't perfect but it's pretty darn good, even missing quite a few players. Like the HBs. Feel Pennell is unlucky to be discarded. Like the backrow even if I would rather see Ewers/Fraser get a shot at some point (I know Fraser isn't on the tourr, I don't agree with the decision). Unsold on Devoto, but let's see. Tompkins getting a shot is great. Lewington getting a shot is great. Good set piece pack in theory.

Don't know much about the SA (A) backs, but they have a good front row there and a decent backrow, how can I watch this game? I'm missing the Saturday full matches due to work, so I really want to see some rugby on Friday Sad
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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 6:56 pm

Three tries to the Saxons sees them 3-22 ahead at half time. Robson got one of them, and looked very dangerous but had to go off as he turned his ankle.

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Post by Cumbrian on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:01 pm

Excellent from the Saxons. Kvesic affected three turnovers that I counted and really should have been allowed to affect a couple more. South Africans have been allowed to hold on, on the floor much too often.

Robson was excellent. Tompkins, Haley an Roko have looked good in attack.

Stays like this and it will be a thumping.
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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:04 pm

Excellent game from England. Cipriani looks very relaxed and in form.

Is it just me or is everything being played at a slightly sluggish pace?

The English scrum-half looked deadbeat after taking his weaving, dodging, gasping try.
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Post by Cumbrian on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:06 pm

Think it is being played at altitude. Although I may be wrong.
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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:11 pm

Is laying on the wrong side of rucks allowed in the SH?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:18 pm

South Africa have got one back.

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Post by Cumbrian on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:25 pm

England are being refereed off the park here...
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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:27 pm

Yes the amount of knock-ons he calls backwards for SA and allowing them lie around on the wrong side of rucks is crazy - and just took out the scrum-half at the last ruck

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:28 pm

wonder if they're not playing the law that the ball has to be lifted before you can tackle the SH

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:30 pm

now he's making up scrum pens

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:31 pm

and results in a try ... jeez

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:32 pm

2nd try by South Africa makes it 17-25

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:33 pm

Referee isn't great but England are missing the threat that Robson offered virtually every time he touched the ball.

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Post by Cumbrian on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:34 pm

How many times has the Saffa prop hitting the ground first gone ignored? We do it and are penalised straight away!
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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:35 pm

Precisely - ref is very poor ...

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Post by Cumbrian on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:35 pm

They clearly just whipped the scrum around...
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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:37 pm

how was that not a pen to Saxons for pulling the ball back after placing it

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:41 pm

One point game now, as SA get a breakaway try.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:42 pm

not too worried about forward passes either it seems

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:42 pm

I'm watching one of the most manufactured comebacks I've ever seen from a ref.  Shocking.

Not into ref bashing but this is homer with a triple capital h.


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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:44 pm

Saxons passing into touch isn't helping either though

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:45 pm

It is not. The poor line outs either. The ref has been absolutely terrible in this second half though, as if he was told to miss everything.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:47 pm

SA constantly offside at the rucks too

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:48 pm

And there we go again.

Utter utter nonsense.


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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:48 pm

Now wait for the made-u penalty to win the game ....

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:49 pm

SA a good metre offside at the last ruck

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:49 pm

A try but number 23 was keen not to give it there.

Sorry to complain but this has been shocking.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:50 pm

agreed

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:50 pm

Finally a try for us, and we should have the game now.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:52 pm

he has to get one last stupid penalty in ... and how is time up but no siren?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:52 pm

I know Saxons matches aren't key events but I'd have been filthy if we'd lost this one.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:53 pm

nice effort by the ref but he needs to be a bit more obvious next time

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:53 pm

The Safa commentary calling it an experienced England team with lots of time together. Really?

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:55 pm

yes that made me wonder too ...

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:57 pm

Presumably it's the narrative the fans have to hear. It's two young scratch sides with a few experienced players in reality.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 7:58 pm

Sounded a bit like getting their excuses in to me Very Happy

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:00 pm

It did.

I suspect they will win the next one, by a ton if this dude officiated again.

These matches should have neutral officials.

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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:03 pm

do we know who the joker was?

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:04 pm

An eternal mystery.

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Post by ChequeredJersey on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:08 pm

He's been refereeing 7s, apparently usually pretty good
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Post by Heaf on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:11 pm

So guess it could have been a number of things ... 7s is very different, he had an off day, he's a massive homer ...

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:18 pm

Nick Easter wryly noting that the referee took a while to award one of Kvesic's penalties.

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Post by Poorfour on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:23 pm

Kvesic was impressive at the breakdown but looked lost when carrying the ball and nearly coughed it up several times by being indecisive about whether to pass or take the contact. A better team would have punished that severely.

Wade put in a nice touch for the last try, but was too easily contained when running and waved at least one Bok past. Tackling is still nowhere near international standard.

Tompkins impressed and looks ready for the senior squad if needed. Robson too, hope he is not too badly injured. Haley looked promising. Ewers wasn't given much time but looked pretty good.

Cipriani ran the show well. Devoto's decision making was a bit off at times, but he deserved his try.

Over all, scrappy in places, lineout needs work but a very good result away from home.
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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 10 Jun 2016, 8:27 pm

only saw the second half, but my wife left the room due to me shouting at the ref. I think she thought I was actually trying to make him hear me.

Very, very impressed with Tompkins and Haley, Rokoduguni looked very solid in the bits I saw of him. I suspect his 1st half was better but the ref stopped England dead in their tracks with his decision making (or following orders). What the hell is a 7's ref doing officiating in an A team international. They don't have rucks or scrums to speak of.

Youngs looked like he does for Falcons, completely outclassed. Poor Cips was having to stand so close Youngs could almost give him the ball, not pass it.

Taylor looked very useful in the couple of bits I saw, makes a right nuisance of himself around the park.

Last comment, how did they condition players that have generally had a hard season already to play on the Veldt and keep going at that pace for 81 minutes. I also noticed the SA team kicking the ball into touch 45 seconds after the 80th minute and getting away with it.

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